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let's get this W for my bday.....
**Official '11 NYK LOCKOUT thread*** lockout over
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pr0phecy718,
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**I posted this in the Melo trade thread** Just wanted to know what you guys all think.
This question isn't directed towards this poster, but I got into an argument with a friend of mine and he said something that didn't make any sense to me.
He said the LONGER Denver waits this out the BETTER it is for them, because during the trade deadline they will be getting offers left and right. But I told him that it wouldn't work out to their favor, because if they're near the deadline, the Nuggets will have their back to the wall and be forced to take a bad trade, just because the deadline is near and they'd rather have something for Melo than nothing.
Now lets say Melo refuses to sign an extension with any team besides the Knicks, this would allow NY to offer Denver a lesser package, because Denver would rather have something than nothing. And the other teams offering Denver would back away, because no team in their right mind would give up their future for Melo, not unless they feel like they can convince him to stay. A possibility I see that can happen is Denver takes a bad offer from another team just to spite Melo and not send him to where he wants to go. This would screw him of the $20 mill.
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As good as Popovich is with young players (he's probably the best), he's also pretty tough on players with low basketball IQs. I just don't think limiting AR is a good reason to claim Da'ntoni is bad with young players, when the rest of the evidence is that he's great with them. It all reminds me a little of the arguments over Nate Robinson. I don't understand why Knicks fans get so hung up on the worst players on their teams every year when they have so much skilled, young, high-IQ, good-attitude talent that is getting tons of time to develop.Originally Posted by StylishStef89
Randolph is the type of player who needs a lot of tutelage. Is his b-ball IQ bad? Yes, but this is where his coach comes him and let's him develop by getting minutes. AR has several skills that could make him a solid contributor, his best being rebounding and shot blocking. It was obvious since draft day that he was gonna take a lot of work. I'm not gonna call AR a bad player because he has the skills to build upon, he just hasn't found the right environment for them to truly bloom. You just don't come off the bench and avg 11 and 6 as a 19 year old big man because you can jump high. Put Randolph on a team where he is given a concrete role, and allowed to learn....I bet a coach like Popovich or Larry Brown could turn AR to a solid player.Originally Posted by 10027
Where in the world does this statement come from? Look at the rotation that's out there now. Gallinari and Fields (and Chandler) are extremely young and getting incredible opportunities to develop every day. Da'ntoni has traded away veterans like Harrington, etc. to make room for young players to take control of the franchise (The opposite of a Larry Brown type, who would have kept Harrington out of fear of putting Gallinari on the floor.) Look how much Chandler has improved since Mike took over.Originally Posted by Super Producer J
He won't get ROY is Griffin stays healthy, but a damn good player he is and can be. Honestly though, we need a new head coach.
, that may sound tired, but Mike does nothing to really develop young players. His short rotations & playing style only handicap young guys who need valuable court time. If we keep making forward progress though, it'll be hard to get rid of him. As I type this though, I'm trying to think of a list of viable replacements in the here and now. None really come to mind.
JVG would be great right now.
Actually, look at Phoenix, and how many young players Da'ntoni watched develop from nowhere: Diaw (well, he was once a good player, and won MIP), Barbosa, Stoudemire, etc. In fact, he is a particularly good coach at trusting young talent on his teams and letting promising players develop.
Let me translate what you're actually saying: "He won't play Anthony Randolph!" In response, I would have to tell you that Anthony Randolph has no idea how to play basketball. Literally. He is a bad player, and will be a career summer-league MVP type—sort of like Nate Robinson but with much less left to give. Why would this completely clueless guy get playing time over three outstanding (young) wing-types who all need all the PT they can get? AR sucks... Being able to jump high does not make you a good basketball player. Not being a basketball-idiot does—AR is the anti-Landry Fields.
It's nice that Randolph has height, but he's also skinny and tries to play around the perimeter, Andray-Blatche style. When I watch him play it seems like what he really wants is to be an oversized wingman anyway, not a banger. The Knicks don't need that—unless he can defend like Jared Jeffries, maybe.
Of course you can have whatever opinion you want about a guy who never plays, because there's no evidence to the contrary. But you have to remember that he averaged that 11 and 6 (not stellar) on the Warriors of Don Nelson, the most notorious stat-inflating team there is. And Nelson—ok, he's crazy—decided AR wasn't helping the team win and benched him.
If the guy wants minutes on a winning team he needs to earn it. Has he shown you literally anything in the playing time he has gotten? It should be simple for him to run around, grab rebounds, get a free dunk and play defense, but he can't do even that.
EDIT: Alo, Larry Brown is horrible with young talent. Maybe the worst in the league. Not sure where that comes from.
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^ I'm siding with you. It's painful to watch AR play. He literally has no idea what to do out there. Yeah it would be good for him to get some minutes in a real game, but not if it hurts the team when he's out there. Keep in mind he is only 21 years old...plenty of time for him to develop, maybe just not time yet for him to play quality minutes.
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AR has done absolutely nothing to merit playing time. If we were 9-24, sure, let the kid play. But we are winning and we shouldn't mess that up.
@nycknicks105 I think the Rockets said they'd rent melo out and hope he changes his mind about re-signing. Our chances of getting Melo increase as time goes by as long as no one gets crazy and says, "Eff it, we'll rent him out."
@nycknicks105 I think the Rockets said they'd rent melo out and hope he changes his mind about re-signing. Our chances of getting Melo increase as time goes by as long as no one gets crazy and says, "Eff it, we'll rent him out."
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I added Larry because he has a similar guy in Tyrus Thomas. Athletic, can rebound and block shots but is raw. Is Brown bad with young players, yes, but he seems to have molded Tyrus into a solid role player. I think he could do the same with AR. I get what your saying though, you do bring up some good points. I would just like to see AR succeed because I believe the talent is there to build upon.Originally Posted by 10027
As good as Popovich is with young players (he's probably the best), he's also pretty tough on players with low basketball IQs. I just don't think limiting AR is a good reason to claim Da'ntoni is bad with young players, when the rest of the evidence is that he's great with them. It all reminds me a little of the arguments over Nate Robinson. I don't understand why Knicks fans get so hung up on the worst players on their teams every year when they have so much skilled, young, high-IQ, good-attitude talent that is getting tons of time to develop.Originally Posted by StylishStef89
Randolph is the type of player who needs a lot of tutelage. Is his b-ball IQ bad? Yes, but this is where his coach comes him and let's him develop by getting minutes. AR has several skills that could make him a solid contributor, his best being rebounding and shot blocking. It was obvious since draft day that he was gonna take a lot of work. I'm not gonna call AR a bad player because he has the skills to build upon, he just hasn't found the right environment for them to truly bloom. You just don't come off the bench and avg 11 and 6 as a 19 year old big man because you can jump high. Put Randolph on a team where he is given a concrete role, and allowed to learn....I bet a coach like Popovich or Larry Brown could turn AR to a solid player.Originally Posted by 10027
Where in the world does this statement come from? Look at the rotation that's out there now. Gallinari and Fields (and Chandler) are extremely young and getting incredible opportunities to develop every day. Da'ntoni has traded away veterans like Harrington, etc. to make room for young players to take control of the franchise (The opposite of a Larry Brown type, who would have kept Harrington out of fear of putting Gallinari on the floor.) Look how much Chandler has improved since Mike took over.Originally Posted by Super Producer J
He won't get ROY is Griffin stays healthy, but a damn good player he is and can be. Honestly though, we need a new head coach.
, that may sound tired, but Mike does nothing to really develop young players. His short rotations & playing style only handicap young guys who need valuable court time. If we keep making forward progress though, it'll be hard to get rid of him. As I type this though, I'm trying to think of a list of viable replacements in the here and now. None really come to mind.
JVG would be great right now.
Actually, look at Phoenix, and how many young players Da'ntoni watched develop from nowhere: Diaw (well, he was once a good player, and won MIP), Barbosa, Stoudemire, etc. In fact, he is a particularly good coach at trusting young talent on his teams and letting promising players develop.
Let me translate what you're actually saying: "He won't play Anthony Randolph!" In response, I would have to tell you that Anthony Randolph has no idea how to play basketball. Literally. He is a bad player, and will be a career summer-league MVP type—sort of like Nate Robinson but with much less left to give. Why would this completely clueless guy get playing time over three outstanding (young) wing-types who all need all the PT they can get? AR sucks... Being able to jump high does not make you a good basketball player. Not being a basketball-idiot does—AR is the anti-Landry Fields.
It's nice that Randolph has height, but he's also skinny and tries to play around the perimeter, Andray-Blatche style. When I watch him play it seems like what he really wants is to be an oversized wingman anyway, not a banger. The Knicks don't need that—unless he can defend like Jared Jeffries, maybe.
Of course you can have whatever opinion you want about a guy who never plays, because there's no evidence to the contrary. But you have to remember that he averaged that 11 and 6 (not stellar) on the Warriors of Don Nelson, the most notorious stat-inflating team there is. And Nelson—ok, he's crazy—decided AR wasn't helping the team win and benched him.
If the guy wants minutes on a winning team he needs to earn it. Has he shown you literally anything in the playing time he has gotten? It should be simple for him to run around, grab rebounds, get a free dunk and play defense, but he can't do even that.
EDIT: Alo, Larry Brown is horrible with young talent. Maybe the worst in the league. Not sure where that comes from.
do be doo
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httphttp://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursn...efferson-bashes-talk-of-hoops-revival-in-n-y/://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2011/01/03/spurs-notebook-jefferson-bashes-talk-of-hoops-revival-in-n-y/
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"It's nice that Randolph has height, but he's also skinny and tries to play around the perimeter"
that's a coaching problem imo
that's a coaching problem imo
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Originally Posted by 10027
As good as Popovich is with young players (he's probably the best), he's also pretty tough on players with low basketball IQs. I just don't think limiting AR is a good reason to claim Da'ntoni is bad with young players, when the rest of the evidence is that he's great with them. It all reminds me a little of the arguments over Nate Robinson. I don't understand why Knicks fans get so hung up on the worst players on their teams every year when they have so much skilled, young, high-IQ, good-attitude talent that is getting tons of time to develop.Originally Posted by StylishStef89
Randolph is the type of player who needs a lot of tutelage. Is his b-ball IQ bad? Yes, but this is where his coach comes him and let's him develop by getting minutes. AR has several skills that could make him a solid contributor, his best being rebounding and shot blocking. It was obvious since draft day that he was gonna take a lot of work. I'm not gonna call AR a bad player because he has the skills to build upon, he just hasn't found the right environment for them to truly bloom. You just don't come off the bench and avg 11 and 6 as a 19 year old big man because you can jump high. Put Randolph on a team where he is given a concrete role, and allowed to learn....I bet a coach like Popovich or Larry Brown could turn AR to a solid player.Originally Posted by 10027
Where in the world does this statement come from? Look at the rotation that's out there now. Gallinari and Fields (and Chandler) are extremely young and getting incredible opportunities to develop every day. Da'ntoni has traded away veterans like Harrington, etc. to make room for young players to take control of the franchise (The opposite of a Larry Brown type, who would have kept Harrington out of fear of putting Gallinari on the floor.) Look how much Chandler has improved since Mike took over.Originally Posted by Super Producer J
He won't get ROY is Griffin stays healthy, but a damn good player he is and can be. Honestly though, we need a new head coach.
, that may sound tired, but Mike does nothing to really develop young players. His short rotations & playing style only handicap young guys who need valuable court time. If we keep making forward progress though, it'll be hard to get rid of him. As I type this though, I'm trying to think of a list of viable replacements in the here and now. None really come to mind.
JVG would be great right now.
Actually, look at Phoenix, and how many young players Da'ntoni watched develop from nowhere: Diaw (well, he was once a good player, and won MIP), Barbosa, Stoudemire, etc. In fact, he is a particularly good coach at trusting young talent on his teams and letting promising players develop.
Let me translate what you're actually saying: "He won't play Anthony Randolph!" In response, I would have to tell you that Anthony Randolph has no idea how to play basketball. Literally. He is a bad player, and will be a career summer-league MVP type—sort of like Nate Robinson but with much less left to give. Why would this completely clueless guy get playing time over three outstanding (young) wing-types who all need all the PT they can get? AR sucks... Being able to jump high does not make you a good basketball player. Not being a basketball-idiot does—AR is the anti-Landry Fields.
It's nice that Randolph has height, but he's also skinny and tries to play around the perimeter, Andray-Blatche style. When I watch him play it seems like what he really wants is to be an oversized wingman anyway, not a banger. The Knicks don't need that—unless he can defend like Jared Jeffries, maybe.
Of course you can have whatever opinion you want about a guy who never plays, because there's no evidence to the contrary. But you have to remember that he averaged that 11 and 6 (not stellar) on the Warriors of Don Nelson, the most notorious stat-inflating team there is. And Nelson—ok, he's crazy—decided AR wasn't helping the team win and benched him.
If the guy wants minutes on a winning team he needs to earn it. Has he shown you literally anything in the playing time he has gotten? It should be simple for him to run around, grab rebounds, get a free dunk and play defense, but he can't do even that.
EDIT: Alo, Larry Brown is horrible with young talent. Maybe the worst in the league. Not sure where that comes from.
Can't say I disagree with you here. AR certainly has the "upside" to become a decent player in this league, but it's all about the environment he's in. At this point, we should move him while he's stock is still "high".
And Larry Brown is NOT good with young talent, especially rookies
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^I'm strictly speaking on the fact that Larry has a similar player in Tyrus. Other than that, I acknowledge that he's bad with young players. Is that a reach?
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Def not a reach. I wouldn't say Tyrus is similar to AR though. Sure they went to the same school and has almost the exact same body, but the difference is that Tyrus knows his role and how to use his length.
By the time Tyrus got to Charlotte he developed his game somewhat and found an identity in the league. AR has yet to do that.
Like someone said earlier, AR tries to be a wingwan too much. After getting a rebound, dude will try to bring the ball down the court and shoot a pull-up jumper.
By the time Tyrus got to Charlotte he developed his game somewhat and found an identity in the league. AR has yet to do that.
Like someone said earlier, AR tries to be a wingwan too much. After getting a rebound, dude will try to bring the ball down the court and shoot a pull-up jumper.
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what truth? that he's butt hurt nobody in the tri state area cared about the nets.
people get so mad about the mecca title. i love it.
people get so mad about the mecca title. i love it.
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amar'e supposedly to be on hot 97 at 4 pm
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I've always hated Richard Jefferson.
Let's play inspired tonight.
Let's play inspired tonight.
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we need to use his kryptonite against him. gotta trap him in a closet with the knicks city dancers
yeeupp
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Dub.. what avy is that ?
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Y'all kill me w/this Larry Brown bashing.
Off the top of my head, Iverson, Chauncey, Ray Felton, DJ Augustin, Tayshaun, Jermaine O'neal, the Davis boys in Indy, Eric Snow... All young talent that flourished under LB.
The young talent that didn't develop under LB are knuckleheads who STILL haven't turned into much. Larry Hughes, Tim Thomas, Adam Morrison, DARKO...
The Knicks roster was loaded with young talent. Frye, Dave, and Nate were rookies. Then you had second year players like Ariza & Jackie Butler. And finally, you had other young vets like Curry, Crawford, and Q. Not to mention Steph, Steve Francis, and Jalen Rose.
That's 11 players when most coaches have an 8 or 9 man rotation. I didn't even name Malik Rose, Mo Taylor, or Qyntel Woods.
You guys always complain about his rotations. But with all those bodies, how else was LB supposed to know who was deserving of PT?
Who exactly did LB prevent from developing on the Knicks??
LB got a raw deal here in NY b/c damn near ANY coach would have done what he did (constant lineup shuffling) with all the bodies on the roster.
Dude was here for ONE season and you guys always make it seem as if he was the reason that the Knicks were terrible for 10 years.
Off the top of my head, Iverson, Chauncey, Ray Felton, DJ Augustin, Tayshaun, Jermaine O'neal, the Davis boys in Indy, Eric Snow... All young talent that flourished under LB.
The young talent that didn't develop under LB are knuckleheads who STILL haven't turned into much. Larry Hughes, Tim Thomas, Adam Morrison, DARKO...
The Knicks roster was loaded with young talent. Frye, Dave, and Nate were rookies. Then you had second year players like Ariza & Jackie Butler. And finally, you had other young vets like Curry, Crawford, and Q. Not to mention Steph, Steve Francis, and Jalen Rose.
That's 11 players when most coaches have an 8 or 9 man rotation. I didn't even name Malik Rose, Mo Taylor, or Qyntel Woods.
You guys always complain about his rotations. But with all those bodies, how else was LB supposed to know who was deserving of PT?
Who exactly did LB prevent from developing on the Knicks??
LB got a raw deal here in NY b/c damn near ANY coach would have done what he did (constant lineup shuffling) with all the bodies on the roster.
Dude was here for ONE season and you guys always make it seem as if he was the reason that the Knicks were terrible for 10 years.
king x riece
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Fanhouse is reporting were targeting Steve Nash
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Source?
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No way we get Nash.
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not sure if posted but Ronny will be starting in Gallo's absence.