OFFICIAL 2010-2011 NBA PLAYOFFS THREAD : VOL. MOST. ANTICIPATED. PLAYOFFS. EVER?

[pmatic]

Van Gundy, Morey rail against McGrady

BOSTON — I’m at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference for the next two days, and I’ll try to file some updates here and there between the panels and conversations with NBA/geek royalty here. 
Malcolm Gladwell, the best-selling author, is moderating the first panel, which is about the notion, developed by experts who study talent and discussed in Gladwell’s book “Outliers,â€

 

[CP1708]

I would give anything to hear another name get added to that list someday so I can witness everybody squirm in their seats when I say I told you so. 


Should these guys be talkin about McGrady like this? 

  This is sort of, outting players work habits and what not, if you a big time free agent, and the GM is literally counting the hours you work on the court, would you want to go there?  Hi Melo. 

JVG is an announcer now, can't really be mad at him, but Morey? 

 

[CP1708]

I would give anything to hear another name get added to that list someday so I can witness everybody squirm in their seats when I say I told you so. 


Should these guys be talkin about McGrady like this? 

  This is sort of, outting players work habits and what not, if you a big time free agent, and the GM is literally counting the hours you work on the court, would you want to go there?  Hi Melo. 

JVG is an announcer now, can't really be mad at him, but Morey? 

 

[proshares]

Ask somebody about this season's Chicago Bulls, and the answer you'll get is likely to be something along the lines of "DerrickRoseDerrickRoseDerrickRoseDerrickRose."

Not to diminish what Rose has accomplished in what's been a breakout season for the third-year star, but the focus on his season has left the Bulls one of the most misunderstood teams in basketball. Chicago has the league's fifth-best record and is challenging for the top seed in the East for several reasons, and other than Rose, those reasons have received comparatively little attention. So let's look a little closer.

It's the defense.

From one perspective, the focus on the point guard's offensive accomplishments seems misguided. The Bulls have the league's 16th-best offense this season, and while that may improve a little during the second half of the season with Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah back from injury, offense will remain a distant second on the list of reasons for Chicago's success.

Instead, the Bulls are winning with a suffocating defense that allows their very ordinary offense to be enough on most nights. Chicago is No. 1 in defensive efficiency, an accomplishment made more amazing by the fact that Noah, the team's defensive stalwart, has missed just more than half of its games (30 of 59).

But it's important to understand the Bulls as an extreme defensive team to understand their success. You often hear, sometimes in praise of Rose's offensive prowess, people wondering aloud about how the Bulls can be playing so well with Keith Bogans at shooting guard and only two good scorers.

The answer is that offensively, they're not playing so well. They're just so awesome on defense that it doesn't matter.

And in particular, it's been the supporting cast that's been dominant defensively. Speaking of which ...

It's the bench.

Chicago's defensive stats with its starters in the game are pretty good. But with the bench? They're ridiculously good.

The Bulls give up just more than a point per possession with any of their five starters on the court, but with the second unit, it's a different story. When Taj Gibson is on the floor, opponents score .994 points per trip. When Ronnie Brewer plays, they muster just .956. When C.J. Watson plays, the number drops to .938.

And with Omer Asik on the court, it's a phenomenal .919 points per possession. Asik, not Rose, is the team leader in plus/minus, even though he has limited offensive skills and a player efficiency rating of 11.35. The backup center is a force as a shot-blocker and help defender, combining with Gibson to form what is, hands down, the best second-unit defensive frontcourt in basketball.

Nobody thinks of Asik as a dominating defensive player because he has a fairly thin build and limited offensive skills, plus it's hard to consider somebody an intimidating presence when he looks like the chef from "Ratatouille." But trust me, he's a monster. This time, instead of hearing me rave about Asik's D again, listen to his coaches.

"When you put he and Taj out there together, the defense of that unit has been great," Bulls coach Tim Thibodeau said. "That's his mindset, and he's got a lot of experience. It's international experience, so in my eyes he's not a typical rookie. He's very, very bright, picks things up quickly, rarely makes the same mistake twice and [has] great drive, a great worker."

Yet Thibodeau sounds like a rank pessimist compared to assistant coach Ron Adams.

"I think he can be as good as any defensive player in this league," Adams said. "Defensively, I just think he's top-of-the-line. And he's getting close to it already."

Of course, it's not just the rook -- Asik is playing only 11.7 minutes per game, so as dominant as he's been defensively, he explains only a portion of Chicago's improved D.

Gibson, as Thibodeau mentioned, also has been a major factor. So has Brewer, with his perimeter ball hawking, and of course Noah. But perhaps the best attribute of Chicago's defense is that, other than Boozer, there really hasn't been a weak link. Rose was a poor defender under Vinny Del Negro but has improved dramatically this season, while Kyle Korver -- the closest thing to a weakness on the perimeter -- has good size and is a quality team defender.

On the other hand, a lot of these guys were on far less successful defensive teams in the past. The Bulls were good defensively a year ago, but by no means great. Boozer, Korver and Brewer were all part of mediocre defensive teams in Utah, with Brewer washing out as a defensive stopper. Watson participated in a woeful Golden State defense and appeared to be no better than his peers, while Bogans and Kurt Thomas have been mostly bit players.

Which takes us to the next logical conclusion …



It's the coach.

Yes, Tom Thibodeau's stuff works. The top defensive assistant in Boston, he was the architect of the Celtics' system that won a title in 2008 and has largely stymied opponents ever since. In fact, you can argue that Thibodeau owns the top two defenses in the game -- the Bulls are first in defensive efficiency, and the Celtics are second.

Before coming to Boston, Thibodeau was Jeff Van Gundy's defensive guru in Houston, where he posted similarly gaudy defensive stats despite some teams that appear to be rather modestly talented in that department.

Sum it all up, and there's a fairly ironclad coach of the year case to be made for Thibodeau, especially given the injuries to Boozer and Noah that Chicago has overcome this season. That doesn't mean he'll win, not when Gregg Popovich has the Spurs en route to a mid-60s win total, Rick Carlisle is squeezing just as much out of the Mavs and Doug Collins is leading the Sixers to a surprise playoff charge.

But the Bulls' collective success is best understood as a combination of a great defensive concept being implemented by a 10-deep roster, one on which the bench is even more suffocating than the starters.

Rose's plays fill the highlight film, and for good reason -- many of them are spectacular. But in explaining how shockingly good Chicago has been thus far, all that takes a backseat. Rose may be the savior on offense, but in explaining the Bulls' success this season, the holy trinity is the D, the bench and the coach.

 

[proshares]

Ask somebody about this season's Chicago Bulls, and the answer you'll get is likely to be something along the lines of "DerrickRoseDerrickRoseDerrickRoseDerrickRose."

Not to diminish what Rose has accomplished in what's been a breakout season for the third-year star, but the focus on his season has left the Bulls one of the most misunderstood teams in basketball. Chicago has the league's fifth-best record and is challenging for the top seed in the East for several reasons, and other than Rose, those reasons have received comparatively little attention. So let's look a little closer.

It's the defense.

From one perspective, the focus on the point guard's offensive accomplishments seems misguided. The Bulls have the league's 16th-best offense this season, and while that may improve a little during the second half of the season with Carlos Boozer and Joakim Noah back from injury, offense will remain a distant second on the list of reasons for Chicago's success.

Instead, the Bulls are winning with a suffocating defense that allows their very ordinary offense to be enough on most nights. Chicago is No. 1 in defensive efficiency, an accomplishment made more amazing by the fact that Noah, the team's defensive stalwart, has missed just more than half of its games (30 of 59).

But it's important to understand the Bulls as an extreme defensive team to understand their success. You often hear, sometimes in praise of Rose's offensive prowess, people wondering aloud about how the Bulls can be playing so well with Keith Bogans at shooting guard and only two good scorers.

The answer is that offensively, they're not playing so well. They're just so awesome on defense that it doesn't matter.

And in particular, it's been the supporting cast that's been dominant defensively. Speaking of which ...

It's the bench.

Chicago's defensive stats with its starters in the game are pretty good. But with the bench? They're ridiculously good.

The Bulls give up just more than a point per possession with any of their five starters on the court, but with the second unit, it's a different story. When Taj Gibson is on the floor, opponents score .994 points per trip. When Ronnie Brewer plays, they muster just .956. When C.J. Watson plays, the number drops to .938.

And with Omer Asik on the court, it's a phenomenal .919 points per possession. Asik, not Rose, is the team leader in plus/minus, even though he has limited offensive skills and a player efficiency rating of 11.35. The backup center is a force as a shot-blocker and help defender, combining with Gibson to form what is, hands down, the best second-unit defensive frontcourt in basketball.

Nobody thinks of Asik as a dominating defensive player because he has a fairly thin build and limited offensive skills, plus it's hard to consider somebody an intimidating presence when he looks like the chef from "Ratatouille." But trust me, he's a monster. This time, instead of hearing me rave about Asik's D again, listen to his coaches.

"When you put he and Taj out there together, the defense of that unit has been great," Bulls coach Tim Thibodeau said. "That's his mindset, and he's got a lot of experience. It's international experience, so in my eyes he's not a typical rookie. He's very, very bright, picks things up quickly, rarely makes the same mistake twice and [has] great drive, a great worker."

Yet Thibodeau sounds like a rank pessimist compared to assistant coach Ron Adams.

"I think he can be as good as any defensive player in this league," Adams said. "Defensively, I just think he's top-of-the-line. And he's getting close to it already."

Of course, it's not just the rook -- Asik is playing only 11.7 minutes per game, so as dominant as he's been defensively, he explains only a portion of Chicago's improved D.

Gibson, as Thibodeau mentioned, also has been a major factor. So has Brewer, with his perimeter ball hawking, and of course Noah. But perhaps the best attribute of Chicago's defense is that, other than Boozer, there really hasn't been a weak link. Rose was a poor defender under Vinny Del Negro but has improved dramatically this season, while Kyle Korver -- the closest thing to a weakness on the perimeter -- has good size and is a quality team defender.

On the other hand, a lot of these guys were on far less successful defensive teams in the past. The Bulls were good defensively a year ago, but by no means great. Boozer, Korver and Brewer were all part of mediocre defensive teams in Utah, with Brewer washing out as a defensive stopper. Watson participated in a woeful Golden State defense and appeared to be no better than his peers, while Bogans and Kurt Thomas have been mostly bit players.

Which takes us to the next logical conclusion …



It's the coach.

Yes, Tom Thibodeau's stuff works. The top defensive assistant in Boston, he was the architect of the Celtics' system that won a title in 2008 and has largely stymied opponents ever since. In fact, you can argue that Thibodeau owns the top two defenses in the game -- the Bulls are first in defensive efficiency, and the Celtics are second.

Before coming to Boston, Thibodeau was Jeff Van Gundy's defensive guru in Houston, where he posted similarly gaudy defensive stats despite some teams that appear to be rather modestly talented in that department.

Sum it all up, and there's a fairly ironclad coach of the year case to be made for Thibodeau, especially given the injuries to Boozer and Noah that Chicago has overcome this season. That doesn't mean he'll win, not when Gregg Popovich has the Spurs en route to a mid-60s win total, Rick Carlisle is squeezing just as much out of the Mavs and Doug Collins is leading the Sixers to a surprise playoff charge.

But the Bulls' collective success is best understood as a combination of a great defensive concept being implemented by a 10-deep roster, one on which the bench is even more suffocating than the starters.

Rose's plays fill the highlight film, and for good reason -- many of them are spectacular. But in explaining how shockingly good Chicago has been thus far, all that takes a backseat. Rose may be the savior on offense, but in explaining the Bulls' success this season, the holy trinity is the D, the bench and the coach.

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I would give anything to hear another name get added to that list someday so I can witness everybody squirm in their seats when I say I told you so. 


Should these guys be talkin about McGrady like this? 

  This is sort of, outting players work habits and what not, if you a big time free agent, and the GM is literally counting the hours you work on the court, would you want to go there?  Hi Melo. 

JVG is an announcer now, can't really be mad at him, but Morey? 

1. GMs are asked to talk about players all the time, and they usually do.

2. As the article said, this is not new information on McGrady.

3. McGrady will not be a big time free agent at any point for the rest of his career.

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I would give anything to hear another name get added to that list someday so I can witness everybody squirm in their seats when I say I told you so. 


Should these guys be talkin about McGrady like this? 

  This is sort of, outting players work habits and what not, if you a big time free agent, and the GM is literally counting the hours you work on the court, would you want to go there?  Hi Melo. 

JVG is an announcer now, can't really be mad at him, but Morey? 

1. GMs are asked to talk about players all the time, and they usually do.

2. As the article said, this is not new information on McGrady.

3. McGrady will not be a big time free agent at any point for the rest of his career.

 

[do be doo]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

The one time I can root for the Heat, against the DAMN SPURS.

We'll see how they match-up.. I don't know how the Spurs stop both Bron AND Wade, plus it's not like the Spurs are super big like they used to be.

Game means nothing. NO TP. But should good tho.

  

 

[do be doo]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

The one time I can root for the Heat, against the DAMN SPURS.

We'll see how they match-up.. I don't know how the Spurs stop both Bron AND Wade, plus it's not like the Spurs are super big like they used to be.

Game means nothing. NO TP. But should good tho.

  

 

[airjordan jb23]

Webber definitly needs to broadcast more games...

Nets / Raptors in London soon.

 

[airjordan jb23]

Webber definitly needs to broadcast more games...

Nets / Raptors in London soon.

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Van Gundy, Morey rail against McGrady

Link

Besides the comments from Van Gundy and Morey, I read more positive things than negative imo. Everyone knows about T-Mac's failures (second round virgin, quitting on the Magic, injuries, etc.), but hardly anyone brings up how he carried his overachieving teams.

He can still help a contender. 

 

[nicedudewithnicedreams]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Van Gundy, Morey rail against McGrady

Link

Besides the comments from Van Gundy and Morey, I read more positive things than negative imo. Everyone knows about T-Mac's failures (second round virgin, quitting on the Magic, injuries, etc.), but hardly anyone brings up how he carried his overachieving teams.

He can still help a contender. 

 

[al3xis]

a few random thoughts after that collapse..

- Does Chris Bosh have a no trade clause? he keeps up this play in the playoffs Riley tries to unload him, no? Maybe the super friends never happens if they don't add him to the mix, but I bet Riley wishes he talked Bron/Wade into spreading the money out instead of giving that fool a max deal. His advanced stats bear out great, cool. I see no impact he leaves on the game, I really don't. He doesn't play with any physicality and just shoots elbow jumpers all game. Is his role decreased playing next to those 2, sure? and that's exactly why I would try to move him. you can find someone to do his job as it currently stands for a far less the price.

- I've said Rose is the MVP for a while, not LeBron. Why..because LeBron is not playing at the level he was the past 2 years, that's not debatable. for me, disappointing.

- on that note..I mentioned this to CP before, Bron has to have had a 'what if' moment by now with Chicago. he didn't want NY, fine..but Chicago..that was the absolute best basketball move for him. He gets to go to a team that nobody would question his ownership of (Rose was on his way, but even if he has this year next to Bron, a lot of credit would have naturally have gone to Bron). Rose/Bum/LeBron/Boozer/Noah.....that MJ 'shadow' stuff would have started to wear away after Ring #1 and with that cast I don't see how they don't rack up a few. heck, forget about 'bum'..I'm sure by now they could have dumped Deng for a somewhat capable of 2 guard. In 2 years, would you rather have Rose or Wade next to you. Is there that much of a separation right now, even?

- At this rate, Riley will coach again. Spoelstra's at fault for all this? no. but Riley can't keep possibly watching this from the sideline.

- I'll wait to see what Haslem looks like, but at this point..that team is going to be up against it. Especially if they fall to the 3 seed and have to go NY/Chi/Bos/LA to win a title. They won't survive. I noted to CP as well that Bos/Miami better go 100% to get that 1 seed to avoid Chicago. looking like a long shot for Mia now.

 

[al3xis]

a few random thoughts after that collapse..

- Does Chris Bosh have a no trade clause? he keeps up this play in the playoffs Riley tries to unload him, no? Maybe the super friends never happens if they don't add him to the mix, but I bet Riley wishes he talked Bron/Wade into spreading the money out instead of giving that fool a max deal. His advanced stats bear out great, cool. I see no impact he leaves on the game, I really don't. He doesn't play with any physicality and just shoots elbow jumpers all game. Is his role decreased playing next to those 2, sure? and that's exactly why I would try to move him. you can find someone to do his job as it currently stands for a far less the price.

- I've said Rose is the MVP for a while, not LeBron. Why..because LeBron is not playing at the level he was the past 2 years, that's not debatable. for me, disappointing.

- on that note..I mentioned this to CP before, Bron has to have had a 'what if' moment by now with Chicago. he didn't want NY, fine..but Chicago..that was the absolute best basketball move for him. He gets to go to a team that nobody would question his ownership of (Rose was on his way, but even if he has this year next to Bron, a lot of credit would have naturally have gone to Bron). Rose/Bum/LeBron/Boozer/Noah.....that MJ 'shadow' stuff would have started to wear away after Ring #1 and with that cast I don't see how they don't rack up a few. heck, forget about 'bum'..I'm sure by now they could have dumped Deng for a somewhat capable of 2 guard. In 2 years, would you rather have Rose or Wade next to you. Is there that much of a separation right now, even?

- At this rate, Riley will coach again. Spoelstra's at fault for all this? no. but Riley can't keep possibly watching this from the sideline.

- I'll wait to see what Haslem looks like, but at this point..that team is going to be up against it. Especially if they fall to the 3 seed and have to go NY/Chi/Bos/LA to win a title. They won't survive. I noted to CP as well that Bos/Miami better go 100% to get that 1 seed to avoid Chicago. looking like a long shot for Mia now.

 

[strongmind3]

missed seeing gilbert's bravado

get that swagger back homie

 

[strongmind3]

missed seeing gilbert's bravado

get that swagger back homie

 

[pmatic]

Miami's schedule the next two weeks;

3/4 @ Spurs, 3/6 vs Bulls, 3/8 vs Blazers, 3/10 vs Lakers, 3/12 vs Grizzlies, 3/14 vs Spurs, 3/16 vs Thunder, 3/18 @ Hawks, 3/19 vs Nuggets

 

[pmatic]

Miami's schedule the next two weeks;

3/4 @ Spurs, 3/6 vs Bulls, 3/8 vs Blazers, 3/10 vs Lakers, 3/12 vs Grizzlies, 3/14 vs Spurs, 3/16 vs Thunder, 3/18 @ Hawks, 3/19 vs Nuggets

 

[lavious]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Miami's schedule the next two weeks;

3/4 @ Spurs, 3/6 vs Bulls, 3/8 vs Blazers, 3/10 vs Lakers, 3/12 vs Grizzlies, 3/14 vs Spurs, 3/16 vs Thunder, 3/18 @ Hawks, 3/19 vs Nuggets

With most of the games at home, wouldn't be surprised to see the Heat get 6 wins.

 

[lavious]

Originally Posted by PMatic

Miami's schedule the next two weeks;

3/4 @ Spurs, 3/6 vs Bulls, 3/8 vs Blazers, 3/10 vs Lakers, 3/12 vs Grizzlies, 3/14 vs Spurs, 3/16 vs Thunder, 3/18 @ Hawks, 3/19 vs Nuggets

With most of the games at home, wouldn't be surprised to see the Heat get 6 wins.

 

[doublejs07]

So VC couldn't play ball after a lacerated mouth?

just read this on the PD blog...

Willie Mitchell(notes) took 54 last night thanks to frozen, propelled vulcanized rubber to the face, which probably felt like losing a snowball fight if snow were the consistency of cement. And like the trooper he is, he returned to the game ASAP and helped the Los Angeles Kings maintain the shutout and take a huge two points from the Phoenix Coyotes.

- Does Chris Bosh have a no trade clause? he keeps up this play in the playoffs Riley tries to unload him, no? Maybe the super friends never happens if they don't add him to the mix, but I bet Riley wishes he talked Bron/Wade into spreading the money out instead of giving that fool a max deal. His advanced stats bear out great, cool. I see no impact he leaves on the game, I really don't. He doesn't play with any physicality and just shoots elbow jumpers all game. Is his role decreased playing next to those 2, sure? and that's exactly why I would try to move him. you can find someone to do his job as it currently stands for a far less the price.


Hmmm...interesting angle w. the no trade clause. Obviously the Heat are paper thin outside of the big 3...if they can unload Bosh, they may be able to fill their team better with some role players and another starter. Or...once the draft order is settled, move Bosh for a top-5 pick and additional assets....there would probably be a few teams who would love his services in lieu of drafting in what could be a historically WEAK class....

 

[doublejs07]

So VC couldn't play ball after a lacerated mouth?

just read this on the PD blog...

Willie Mitchell(notes) took 54 last night thanks to frozen, propelled vulcanized rubber to the face, which probably felt like losing a snowball fight if snow were the consistency of cement. And like the trooper he is, he returned to the game ASAP and helped the Los Angeles Kings maintain the shutout and take a huge two points from the Phoenix Coyotes.

- Does Chris Bosh have a no trade clause? he keeps up this play in the playoffs Riley tries to unload him, no? Maybe the super friends never happens if they don't add him to the mix, but I bet Riley wishes he talked Bron/Wade into spreading the money out instead of giving that fool a max deal. His advanced stats bear out great, cool. I see no impact he leaves on the game, I really don't. He doesn't play with any physicality and just shoots elbow jumpers all game. Is his role decreased playing next to those 2, sure? and that's exactly why I would try to move him. you can find someone to do his job as it currently stands for a far less the price.


Hmmm...interesting angle w. the no trade clause. Obviously the Heat are paper thin outside of the big 3...if they can unload Bosh, they may be able to fill their team better with some role players and another starter. Or...once the draft order is settled, move Bosh for a top-5 pick and additional assets....there would probably be a few teams who would love his services in lieu of drafting in what could be a historically WEAK class....

 

[pmatic]

No, Bosh does not have a no trade clause. Only Kobe and Dirk have them at the moment. A player has to have at least 8 years of experience and be with the team for at least 4 years to even be eligible, and even then unless you're a superstar a team won't even consider giving a player the option to have one.

 

[pmatic]

No, Bosh does not have a no trade clause. Only Kobe and Dirk have them at the moment. A player has to have at least 8 years of experience and be with the team for at least 4 years to even be eligible, and even then unless you're a superstar a team won't even consider giving a player the option to have one.