Official 2023 Boxing Thread:Benavidez vs Andrade 11/25 Showtime PPV

[Manny Fernandez718]

Did you know Chavez was 89-0 before he lost his first fight?

Imagine.....had Chavez retired in '93 at 89-0 he would've been "TBE" in your eyes by virtue of his "0"

89-0 vs 50-0. Do the math.

You know darn well that "0" is the ONLY thing Floyd can lay claim to.

But the real boxing fans and experts know that the Best of the Best of all time all had losses, no matter how you wanna slice it.

The fact that Mayweather constantly has to say he's the greatest PROVES he ain't the greatest because......

And oh btw.....Floyd fought 50 times not 48 LOL

Remind me again, when did you start watching boxing?

Chavez fought mostly bums to pad that record and when he didn't Chavez got a few close decisions thrown in there

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Chavez fought mostly bums to pad that record and when he didn't Chavez got a few close decisions thrown in there

Are you throwing out reasons or excuses?

 

[doublemesh96]

Wasn’t he taking an illegal painkiller for them hands?

Legend has it

 

[DonCigaro]

Did you know Chavez was 89-0 before he lost his first fight?

Imagine.....had Chavez retired in '93 at 89-0 he would've been "TBE" in your eyes by virtue of his "0"

89-0 vs 50-0. Do the math.

You know darn well that "0" is the ONLY thing Floyd can lay claim to.

But the real boxing fans and experts know that the Best of the Best of all time all had losses, no matter how you wanna slice it.

The fact that Mayweather constantly has to say he's the greatest PROVES he ain't the greatest because......

And oh btw.....Floyd fought 50 times not 48 LOL

Remind me again, when did you start watching boxing?

He fought Castillo and Maidana twice

 

[DonCigaro]

What’s crazy about Floyd is he beat everyone in the 2nd half of his career on brittle hands. Pure defense and extremely accurate efficient and crisp striking. He didn’t need power

Exactly that’s what’s so impressive about Floyd. He basically had pillow hands like Paulie Malinaggi and he was still dominating dudes.

 

[monstar]

Both Floyd and Pac are legends in their own right. I'd say Pacquiao will be more revered than Floyd as time passes. Pac took more risks in his career. Plus, he just brought so many memorable moments to his fights even when he lost, especially to Morales (1st fight) and JmmIV/KTFO6. Those lighter weights is where he made his name and climbing 8 divisions is insane! I don't think that will ever happen again. Not for a long time at least! He didn't have to operate at welterweight and probably could have stayed at lightweight and dominated. He definitely overachieved in his career.

People generally side with the fan friendly fighter and Pacquiao really encompassed that role really well.

With Floyd, as skilled and dominant as he was, he took to the business side of boxing and pretty much formulated the path of low risk/high reward fights, that's prevalent today in the sport. And so he mastered the art of fighting the right opponent at the right time, in the right situation that favors him, but not exactly in their primes, and made a bunch of money off of that formula. Plus, he took on the villain role, and that obviously won't win the hearts of the fans, which I know Floyd could care less about.

And he won money wise, living up to his name. Great. Triumphant! But people don't care how much money you made, but moreso who you fought, if you took risks and challenged yourself, how you responded to adversity, etc. Pac did that more often than Floyd, who on the other hand played it safe.

But again, both are legends and this debate will last a lifetime and you can poke holes in each fighter's resume. I actually think both in their primes are head and shoulders above today's welterweights, barring Crawford/Spence.

I say Prime Floyd beats Spence. And I see him struggle with Crawford depending on what weight they fight at. At the lighter weights Floyd was more offensively inclined, which works in Bud's favor. But at welterweight, Bud would have to come forward and try and engage with Floyd. And so Bud would need to turn up the IQ on his end to make something happen.

As for Pacquiao, it's up in the air with both fights as he is undersized, but he has made a career of beating the bigger man and so you can't count him out. I can see him winning a close split decision against Spence. Pac's speed, volume punching, weird angles, and footwork could overwhelm Spence's one speed fighting style. But Spence at his best is a dog and could wear Pac. The Spence that lost to Crawford, loses to Pacquiao as well IMO.

He'll have a tougher time with Crawford, who's punches are dynamic and otherworldly and is stronger and has the longer reach and is fast as well. Pac would have to work extra hard and maximize his speed, footwork, angles just to hang in there with Crawford. I favor Crawford heavily in this one. Pac at his worst could get reckless and get caught with something, and Crawford's something is not to be played with.

Anyway, just my two cents on both of these legends.

People always say Floyd mastered the business side. And that is such a weak take and a slight to him. Before changing to money may he couldn’t land a big fight bc no one wanted to fight the kid putting everyone down and making it look so easy. Cotto de la Hoya Mosley all had chances to fight him earlier in there career they chose to go elsewhere.

Black fighters don’t deal with the same fan bias that others deal with. Floyd proved one thing and that is you gotta hate me to tune in.

Partly why Andre Ward retired and why Bud or Errol doent sale fights the same way.

Put two prime black fighters in there career and they doin mediocre numbers on ppv

Floyd pitches a shutout against one of the top guys still fighting in canelo and all you hear are excuses.

Meanwhile canelo fights charlo has who know business in the ring jumping multiple weight classes without buzz to a fight that is watched more then Spence vs Bud

Y’all wanna hate Floyd so bad but the man made the best fighters in the world look like amateurs. The list of guys running from him is far greater then guys he ran from

Shakur Stevenson is falling in that same category unfortunately

Bozo got some funny takes

Paul Williams was a tragedy of the sport as well no one wanted to fight that guy at welterweight.

Spence pre car accident is a different fight against Bud. Also Manny ain’t beating either guy in there prime. Best thing arum did was spare manny from that retirement fight against bud

Anyone who can hate on Floyd as a fighter has never boxed nor seen the man fight live

Lastly Floyd will be known as the greatest defensive fighter of all time only person with quicker hands he ran into in the ring may have been zab

 

[monstar]

Pernell Whitaker was robbed against jcc
Not sure what was worse Roy jones in the Olympics or that fight

 

[monstar]

I like him alot . The fact he only has half the number of fights as some others hurt his all time status.

Canelo is the same age as Ward when he retired and has double the bouts

You have to remember American amateur system is way different then Mexican born fighters also Ward is a much bigger guy fighting at a heavier weight class

Let’s see Canelo enter a tourney as a heavy underdog at the start of his career and come out on top as the top guy on the division. He is also the guy who went up in weight to pursue and beat a killer in kovalev
Adonis Stevenson is a fraud for the running he did from both guys

Canelo wouldn’t be walking Ward down either that fight would be in a phone booth

 

[DonCigaro]

People always say Floyd mastered the business side. And that is such a weak take and a slight to him. Before changing to money may he couldn’t land a big fight bc no one wanted to fight the kid putting everyone down and making it look so easy. Cotto de la Hoya Mosley all had chances to fight him earlier in there career they chose to go elsewhere.

Black fighters don’t deal with the same fan bias that others deal with. Floyd proved one thing and that is you gotta hate me to tune in.

Partly why Andre Ward retired and why Bud or Errol doent sale fights the same way.

Put two prime black fighters in there career and they doin mediocre numbers on ppv

Floyd pitches a shutout against one of the top guys still fighting in canelo and all you hear are excuses.

Meanwhile canelo fights charlo has who know business in the ring jumping multiple weight classes without buzz to a fight that is watched more then Spence vs Bud

Y’all wanna hate Floyd so bad but the man made the best fighters in the world look like amateurs. The list of guys running from him is far greater then guys he ran from

Shakur Stevenson is falling in that same category unfortunately

Bozo got some funny takes

Paul Williams was a tragedy of the sport as well no one wanted to fight that guy at welterweight.

Spence pre car accident is a different fight against Bud. Also Manny ain’t beating either guy in there prime. Best thing arum did was spare manny from that retirement fight against bud

Anyone who can hate on Floyd as a fighter has never boxed nor seen the man fight live

Lastly Floyd will be known as the greatest defensive fighter of all time only person with quicker hands he ran into in the ring may have been zab

Preach . The dudes in here hating on Floyd are most likely not black so that explains a lot.

 

[monstar]

Preach . The dudes in here hating on Floyd are most likely not black so that explains a lot.

It’s NT iykyk.

Don’t call it out to much that ban hammer comes swift lol

 

[Confessions of Fire]

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

LMAO at race being brought up now

Some of y'all cats funny af so why don't we play around with it for fun shall we. Ima quote the two dudes who brought up race real quick just so we can see how funny it really is.......

"Anyone who can hate on [insert latino, white, or asian boxer's name here] as a fighter has never boxed nor seen the man fight live" according to monstar

"The dudes in here hating on Floyd Bruce Lee are most likely not black asian so that explains a lot." According to Don Cigaro

"Latino fighters don’t deal with the same fan bias that others deal with" according to monstar

"Pernell Whitaker Jose Luis Castillo was robbed against jcc PBF
Not sure what was worse Roy Jones Michael Conlan or Rafael Lozano in the Olympics or that fight" says monstar

"IYKYK" says monstar

#Bozos says my 16 year old son after reading the above

 

[you go boy]

Funny you bring that up… When I went to the pac vs Mayweather fight at buffalo wild wings all the black people there were rooting against Floyd and wanted pac to win… I actually bet a black guy that Floyd would win mind you I’m Asian… the same thing occurred when I went to see the mcgregor fight at buffalo wild wings where black people were rooting against Floyd…

 

[Manny Fernandez718]

LMAO at race being brought up now

Some of y'all cats funny af

"Anyone who can hate on [insert latino, white, or asian boxer's name here] as a fighter has never boxed nor seen the man fight live"

"The dudes in here hating on Floyd Bruce Lee are most likely not black asian so that explains a lot."

"Latino fighters don’t deal with the same fan bias that others deal with"

"Pernell Whitaker Jose Luis Castillo was robbed against jcc PBF
Not sure what was worse Roy Jones Michael Conlan or Rafael Lozano in the Olympics or that fight"

"IYKYK"

#Bozos

You really showing your a** by deflecting

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

You really showing your a** by deflecting

Buddy, that ain't deflecting.

Sorry but my pointing out that a couple dudes brought up the race card in boxing is nowhere near deflection and is more like my pointing out and mocking their ridiculously invalid and baseless statements about race, hence my using quotation marks to quote their race-driven comments.

You obviously didn't get it.

Now keep it moving big dog.

But if you want to talk about race in boxing, I'm more than happy to participate in that kind of discourse especially since I'm of mixed race. This my friend is not something someone who "deflects' would do.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Manny Fernandez718

Anybody could tell Manny used drugs

And we already know what happened when Manny sued Floyd for defamation of character and slander after Floyd continually made baseless accusations about Pac using PEDS, constantly criticizing and blaming Pac from 2009-2013 for the mega fight not happening.

And yesterday, you sounded just like Floyd with your silly, baseless comment above.

Carry on

 

[finessence]

Preach . The dudes in here hating on Floyd are most likely not black so that explains a lot.

I’m black. Sugar Ray is better than Floyd. Hearns and Hagler too.

It’s the LeBron affect. Just because you made the most or played the longest…. Doesn’t mean you’re the greatest.

If we are specifically talking about the sport of “boxing”, even his weight class, he’s not the best. Dude isn’t even the best in his weight class.

 

[mrtarheel]

Ever heard of the saying "Styles makes fights?"

But since you wanna play that childish game with common opponents (clearly you aint been watching the sport too long)...

Pacquiao beat Cotto to a bloody pulp. Floyd barely touched Cotto. In fact, Cotto gave Floyd a bloody nose.

Pacquiao made Mosley taste the canvas. Floyd couldn't do it.

Pacquiao beat the crap out of Delahoya. Floyd barely beat him

Pacquiao put Hatton to sleep in 2. It took Floyd like 10 rounds to figure him out LOL

Welcome to my conversation with Floyd nuthuggers circa 2012

We can argue til we blue in the face big dog, you ain't gonna win cause all of Floyd's die hard fans can only resort to these 3 things when discrediting Pacquiao's legacy vis a vis Floyd's:

1. The photo you posted of Pac getting ktfo, and

2. Floyd's protected "0", and

3. Accusing Pac of PEDS with zero evidence

That's all you got and you know it

Did Pac fight all those guys after Floyd? So of their "prime" correct? He waited right?

 

[mrtarheel]

People always say Floyd mastered the business side. And that is such a weak take and a slight to him. Before changing to money may he couldn’t land a big fight bc no one wanted to fight the kid putting everyone down and making it look so easy. Cotto de la Hoya Mosley all had chances to fight him earlier in there career they chose to go elsewhere.

Black fighters don’t deal with the same fan bias that others deal with. Floyd proved one thing and that is you gotta hate me to tune in.

Partly why Andre Ward retired and why Bud or Errol doent sale fights the same way.

Put two prime black fighters in there career and they doin mediocre numbers on ppv

Floyd pitches a shutout against one of the top guys still fighting in canelo and all you hear are excuses.

Meanwhile canelo fights charlo has who know business in the ring jumping multiple weight classes without buzz to a fight that is watched more then Spence vs Bud

Y’all wanna hate Floyd so bad but the man made the best fighters in the world look like amateurs. The list of guys running from him is far greater then guys he ran from

Shakur Stevenson is falling in that same category unfortunately

Bozo got some funny takes

Paul Williams was a tragedy of the sport as well no one wanted to fight that guy at welterweight.

Spence pre car accident is a different fight against Bud. Also Manny ain’t beating either guy in there prime. Best thing arum did was spare manny from that retirement fight against bud

Anyone who can hate on Floyd as a fighter has never boxed nor seen the man fight live

Lastly Floyd will be known as the greatest defensive fighter of all time only person with quicker hands he ran into in the ring may have been zab

This! It's was because Floyd was black and dominant and didn't play by the rules that they want to poke holes all in the man's resume.

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Did Pac fight all those guys after Floyd? So of their "prime" correct? He waited right?

This! It's was because Floyd was black and dominant and didn't play by the rules that they want to poke holes all in the man's resume.

Are you throwing out reasons or excuses?

 

[immaculate1]

Just want to observe that besides the "heel" persona that Mayweather exuded to get more infamy/interest, he has a history of domestic violence which doesn't lend itself to favorable reception by boxing fans. He's not the only one with out-of-the-ring issues, and everyone makes mistakes but throwing that out there to make clear that is one of many reasons Mayweather is disliked.

Magnificent boxer with one of a kind defensive prowess but not my goat. Certainly up there though.

 

[monstar]

Funny you bring that up… When I went to the pac vs Mayweather fight at buffalo wild wings all the black people there were rooting against Floyd and wanted pac to win… I actually bet a black guy that Floyd would win mind you I’m Asian… the same thing occurred when I went to see the mcgregor fight at buffalo wild wings where black people were rooting against Floyd…

This has absolutely nothing to do with my point.
My point is black fighters don’t get the same views that others in the sport get.

The biggest fight of the year easily was Spence Crawford how them ppv numbers stack up against canelo or Ryan Garcia . That was my point

I’m not asking about who roots for or against. I’m saying a black fighter has to literally be hated for the masses to tune in. Canelo don’t deal with that. Give me one black fighter who didn’t go out of there way to talk trash be loud or boisterous to sale a fight? I’ll wait

Read my post take your emotion out of it and go look at the numbers

I’m black. Sugar Ray is better than Floyd. Hearns and Hagler too.

It’s the LeBron affect. Just because you made the most or played the longest…. Doesn’t mean you’re the greatest.

If we are specifically talking about the sport of “boxing”, even his weight class, he’s not the best. Dude isn’t even the best in his weight class.

Who was better at welterweight during his era? Who did he duck?

You referenced guys who were great during another era that was never the point

I’ll wait for a real argument vs your feelings

Just want to observe that besides the "heel" persona that Mayweather exuded to get more infamy/interest, he has a history of domestic violence which doesn't lend itself to favorable reception by boxing fans. He's not the only one with out-of-the-ring issues, and everyone makes mistakes but throwing that out there to make clear that is one of many reasons Mayweather is disliked.

Magnificent boxer with one of a kind defensive prowess but not my goat. Certainly up there though.

No one asked about your Goat. this has nothing to do with him landing a big fight that would put him over on to the A side . Prior to money may when he went by pretty boy the man was ducked and no one would fight him . His out of the ring antics like many boxers had nothing to with his ability to land a big fight. It took the man moving to the money may persona for people to tune in hoping the loud mouth defensive guy would lose.

People tuned in to watch him lose fellas that’s my point. You can’t say that about manny or canelo. This is the path black fighters have to take to sale fights.

If they go the humble I’ll let my gloves talk for me route they will have under performing fight numbers it’s a repeated formula.
Bud , Spence and ward 3 great fighters never had huge fights bc of this.

Manny, canelo never had to do this.

Y’all just don’t get it.

Bozo ain’t quote me once to disagree lol

 

[monstar]

@bozo ever been to a Floyd fight?

Ever put on gloves?

Give me a fighter who went up in weight and still had guys hesitant to rush in with no respect for there power?

When have you seen Canelo fight a Guy who’s power he didn’t respect fights off of his back foot and stop coming fwd? With the weight advantage?

This version of Canelo people like was birthed from the Floyd humiliation

Of all the fighter Manny went up against during his run you could argue Floyd had the least punching power yet Floyd pitched a shutout and made it look easy.

 

[you go boy]

^ my response wasnt even for you so not sure why you got defensive but ok

 

[Brosizzlew30.23]

Bozo back at it like a crack addict.

Let's break down the ignorance shall we?

@bozo says...

"My point is black fighters don’t get the same views that others in the sport get"

"I’m saying a black fighter has to literally be hated for the masses to tune in"

"Give me one black fighter who didn’t go out of there way to talk trash be loud or boisterous to sale a fight? I’ll wait"

You don't gotta wait long big dog. You ever watch Marvin Hagler, Bernard Hopkins, Roy Jones, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson? Neither of these black fighters needed to "talk trash or be loud" like Floyd for the masses to watch/like them. Tyson was knocking fools out left and right and his action packed fights were exciting to watch, that's why he was the top PPV draw during his time. Unlike the unexciting Floyd, who had to create a villainous character to make people root against him in order to sell PPV's cause his fights lacked action and entertainment value.

Let's stop acting like there's some special category for black fighters cause there ain't. Every fighter no matter the color of their skin is on an even playing field.

Get off your high horse.

"His out of the ring antics like many boxers had nothing to with his ability to land a big fight. It took the man moving to the money may persona for people to tune in hoping the loud mouth defensive guy would lose.

People tuned in to watch him lose fellas that’s my point. You can’t say that about manny or canelo. This is the path black fighters have to take to sale fights."

You know dam well Floyd's out of the ring antics helped sell his fights tremendously. Lets not play dumb here.

Did Evander Holyfield, Tyson, Larry Holmes, George Foreman, Marvin Hagler, Tommie Hearns, SRL, Ali, Sugar Ray Robinson, et all feel the need to "move to the money may persona" and create "out of the ring antics" to draw fights and earn the respect of fans? HELL NO!

And everyone I named above is a black fighter. Period. End of story. Nothing you can say about it big dog. These are the FACTS.

Floyd really has the dude riding him just like this hasn't he

Get off that horse