Official Bitcoin Thread

[osh kosh bosh]

Simple. You move/swap your bitcoin in another country/jurisdiction. bitcoin has no borders. its peer to peer. US can do whatever it wants to do ...bitcoin is global and won't change for anyone. think about the 10+yrs of bitcoin and all the other entities that changed conformed, and bent the knee .....while bitcoin JDGAF.

you think US hates bitcoin so much that it will let another country pass them in this space? If so, that maybe their dumbest move ever. imagine that.

Simply...launder your money is your solution?

if the the US really wanted to make bitcoin essentially illegal, you'd think they make it that easy?


you don't think they'd leverage their power of the global financial reporting system to make what you describe incredibly difficult.
they'd treat it like money laundering.


and even if you found ways to disguise it, you don't think it severely limit its utility as a store of value
thus decimating it's current value?

you think it'd still be trading at 50k or whatever under that regulatory regime?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

the cyberattacks would have happened with or without crypto, been going on as long as I’ve been alive. The fact they want their pay in crypto and people (most recently the government) are paying up in crypto further legitimizes the space.
The attackers/hackers wanting their payment in crypto because it is secure, and private, untraceable is showing that Bitcoin and is exactly what it claimed to be.

1. Showing that bitcoin is extremely good for committing financial crimes legitimizes it???

imo it courts regulatory scrutiny. how many more gas pipelines, hospital databases, meat processing systems have to go down
before the US Government say nah fam?

2. You really don't think that private, secure untraceable form of currency creates a greater incentive for cyber crime?

you removed a key sticking point to get paid for criminal acts.
If crypto is what you say it is, of course it would create a greater incentive for cyber crime.

 

[pdino]

1. Showing that bitcoin is extremely good for committing financial crimes legitimizes it???

imo it courts regulatory scrutiny. how many more gas pipelines, hospital databases, meat processing systems have to go down
before the US Government say nah fam?

2. You really don't think that private, secure untraceable form of currency creates a greater incentive for cyber crime?

you removed a key sticking point to get paid for criminal acts.
If crypto is what you say it is, of course it would create a greater incentive for cyber crime.

cyber crime is going to happen, this is just the payment method instead of an elaborate wire or cash payment, it’s paid in Bitcoin. Hackers would have taken the pipeline and demanded payment in another form regardless if crypto ever existed.
The government already announced their stance:
“The report details a multiyear effort to bolster IRS enforcement that would bring in as much as $700 billion in tax revenue over the next 10 years. The proposed changes, if implemented, would go into effect starting in 2023.”
https://techcrunch.com/2021/05/20/new-cryptocurrency-irs-rules-2023-crypto/

 

[osh kosh bosh]

cyber crime is going to happen, this is just the payment method instead of an elaborate wire or cash payment, it’s paid in Bitcoin. Hackers would have taken the pipeline and demanded payment in another form regardless if crypto ever existed.The government already announced their stance:

?

maybe im dumb but i don't get it.


if you no longer need an "elaborate wire or cash payment"
haven't you just made ransomware crimes easier to commit?

like Bitcoin is a lot easier than laundering money.
Bitcoin is a lot easier than getting 4 million in cash and disappearing into the night.

if Bitcoin is the decentralized, private form of payment you say it is, by definition it makes getting paid for ransomware attack easier. no?

 

[pdino]

?

maybe im dumb but i don't get it.


if you no longer need an "elaborate wire or cash payment"
haven't you just made ransomware crimes easier to commit?

like Bitcoin is a lot easier than laundering money.
Bitcoin is a lot easier than getting 4 million in cash and disappearing into the night.

if Bitcoin is the decentralized, private form of payment you say it is, by definition it makes getting paid for ransomware attack easier. no?

By the same logic, we should get rid of wire transfers then, that makes it easier to pay hackers. Make them pickup their cash in person.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

By the same logic, we should get rid of wire transfers then, that makes it easier to pay hackers. Make them pickup their cash in person.

this is where i'm getting confused...are you saying that bitcoin isn't material different than wire transfers?
if so what's so great about bitcoin?

my understanding, is that bitcoin improves on normal money by being private, decentralized...
a private decentralized form if currency is great for crime no?

 

[pdino]

this is where i'm getting confused...are you saying that bitcoin isn't material different than wire transfers?
if so what's so great about bitcoin?

my understanding, is that bitcoin improves on normal money by being private, decentralized...
a private decentralized form if currency is great for crime no?

I’m saying Bitcoin and wire transfers are similar in that they both make it easier for hackers to get their ransomware.
Your argument is that Bitcoin is making it easier for hackers ransomware attacks. Wire transfers also do this same job (making it easier for hackers to get large sum payments). If the idea is to make it harder for hackers by getting rid of Bitcoin, it would also make it harder for hackers to collect their payments by getting rid of wire transfers.

Crypto is also great for anti-crime. The pipeline data can be hidden in the blockchain. Like you said, crypto is secure, private, could easily secure pipeline data with crypto.

guns are great for crime, no?
drugs are great for crime, no?
Computers are great for cyber-crime, no?
Slippery slope

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I’m saying Bitcoin and wire transfers are similar in that they both make it easier for hackers to get their ransomware.
Your argument is that Bitcoin is making it easier for hackers ransomware attacks. Wire transfers also do this same job (making it easier for hackers to get large sum payments). If the idea is to make it harder for hackers by getting rid of Bitcoin, it would also make it harder for hackers to collect their payments by getting rid of wire transfers.

Crypto is also great for anti-crime. The pipeline data can be hidden in the blockchain. Like you said, crypto is secure, private, could easily secure pipeline data with crypto.

guns are great for crime, no?
drugs are great for crime, no?
Computers are great for cyber-crime, no?
Slippery slope

but bitcoin makes it significantly easier than wire transfers. if it doesn't what exactly is the point of bitcoin?

Like be serious if you were executing ransomware attack you wouldn't choose a wire transfer over bitcoin,
nobody would because a wire transfer carries significantly more risk.

and we can see it as the revealed preference of hackers.
there's been 62% increase in ransomware attacks since 2019. ransomware payments are up.

50+ Ransomware Statistics & Facts for 2018-2024

Ransomware is the biggest cybersecurity threat to date. With billions of dollars in losses directly related to ransomware, the risks are only getting worse.

www.comparitech.com

you think Bitcoin has zero to do with this?



also im not claiming bitcoin should be illegal. im asking is the potential legality of bitcoin a hug risk factor when you consider it's value as an investment.

- guns, the distribution, sale/use of illegal firearms carry significant legal consequences
- many drugs are illegal and the sale/use of illegal drugs carry significant legal consequences
- computers have significantly more utility than bitcoin.
bitcoin is great for speculation and cyber crime but isn't really a massive improvement on traditional payment systems.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Didn’t they settle ransoms in cash for 200 years before bitcoin became a thing? Don’t really see how it’s an argument here.

 

[iheartboost]

is It just Coinbase pro? I didn’t get an alert and it still says “not supported” on mine

Yup, Pro.

Should hit CB in a few weeks they said.

 

[ICE CITY CF]

but bitcoin makes it significantly easier than wire transfers. if it doesn't what exactly is the point of bitcoin?

Like be serious if you were executing ransomware attack you wouldn't choose a wire transfer over bitcoin,
nobody would because a wire transfer carries significantly more risk.

and we can see it as the revealed preference of hackers.
there's been 62% increase in ransomware attacks since 2019. ransomware payments are up.

50+ Ransomware Statistics & Facts for 2018-2024

Ransomware is the biggest cybersecurity threat to date. With billions of dollars in losses directly related to ransomware, the risks are only getting worse.

www.comparitech.com

you think Bitcoin has zero to do with this?



also im not claiming bitcoin should be illegal. im asking is the potential legality of bitcoin a hug risk factor when you consider it's value as an investment.

- guns, the distribution, sale/use of illegal firearms carry significant legal consequences
- many drugs are illegal and the sale/use of illegal drugs carry significant legal consequences
- computers have significantly more utility than bitcoin.
bitcoin is great for speculation and cyber crime but isn't really a massive improvement on traditional payment systems.

You're kind of caught up on Bitcoin but I'd recommend reading up on decentralized finance and just alternatives to Bitcoin in general.

It seems like you're missing the forest for the trees which is understandable, Bitcoin is at the forefront of cryptocurrency. A lot of your questions can be answered with better understanding of the space as a whole.

To answer your original question, I'm not at all concerned about the value of Bitcoin declining due to being banned by the US government, or any government.

On a 25 - 50 year time horizon, I'd be much more worried about the value of an investment in Bitcoin losing value due to the rise of an alternative cryptocurrency.

 

[pdino]

but bitcoin makes it significantly easier than wire transfers. if it doesn't what exactly is the point of bitcoin?

Like be serious if you were executing ransomware attack you wouldn't choose a wire transfer over bitcoin,
nobody would because a wire transfer carries significantly more risk.

and we can see it as the revealed preference of hackers.
there's been 62% increase in ransomware attacks since 2019. ransomware payments are up.

50+ Ransomware Statistics & Facts for 2018-2024

Ransomware is the biggest cybersecurity threat to date. With billions of dollars in losses directly related to ransomware, the risks are only getting worse.

www.comparitech.com

you think Bitcoin has zero to do with this?



also im not claiming bitcoin should be illegal. im asking is the potential legality of bitcoin a hug risk factor when you consider it's value as an investment.

- guns, the distribution, sale/use of illegal firearms carry significant legal consequences
- many drugs are illegal and the sale/use of illegal drugs carry significant legal consequences
- computers have significantly more utility than bitcoin.
bitcoin is great for speculation and cyber crime but isn't really a massive improvement on traditional payment systems.

I think Bitcoin/crypto has very little to do with this.

Per your article you cited, majority of these attacks are done by cloud-based Ryuk ransomware. Your fight is with cloud technology, not crypto. Again, they could protect their data using cryptos technology instead.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I think Bitcoin/crypto has very little to do with this.

Per your article you cited, majority of these attacks are done by cloud-based Ryuk ransomware. Your fight is with cloud technology, not crypto. Again, they could protect their data using cryptos technology instead.

Financial incentives create innovation,
Bitcoin has made securing large ransom easier and less dangerous.

Spuring innovation and investment in ransomware tools.

It's a strange argument, it's like you want me to think that Bitcoin is basically the same as regular money. If that's the case what is the point of it.

if Bitcoin isn't good for criminal transactions what exactly is it good for?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Didn’t they settle ransoms in cash for 200 years before bitcoin became a thing? Don’t really see how it’s an argument here.

Uhm you don't think there is significantly more risk in receiving 2 million dollars in cash vs 2 million in Bitcoin as payment for illicit activities?

 

[pdino]

Financial incentives create innovation,
Bitcoin has made securing large ransom easier and less dangerous.

Spuring innovation and investment in ransomware tools.

It's a strange argument, it's like you want me to think that Bitcoin is basically the same as regular money. If that's the case what is the point of it.

if Bitcoin isn't good for criminal transactions what exactly is it good for?

Ransomware has been trending up before/regardless of Bitcoins popularity, correlation doesn't equal causation.

Bitcoin allows payments to be made through a decentralized network. These ransomware attacks took people's data, their information from a company, then offered the information back to the companies for a ransom. On a decentralized network, there is no chance of your personal information getting taken, like from a bank.
Here's a bank getting hacked last month, and everybody's information and money getting taken by the hackers because it is on a CENTRALIZED network (the bank):
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/first-horizon-bank-online-accounts-hacked-to-steal-customers-funds

Bitcoins value isn't created by the U.S. government, or any government for that matter. By the people

Bitcoin was the first of it's time, but majority of crypto is not currency, it's tech. 99% of projects have no interest in taking over as a global/country/government currency

 

[fapmasterjr]

Here we go (again)...Bitcoin used for illicit/illegal activities...so 2013. Take ur 2013 views to Reddit and do a search where scholars will tell u there is nothing more ILLEGAL than USD/Fiat. Seriously, do we need to revisit this every year? It's over bro, Bitcoin isn't going anywhere, just say ur short Bitcoin and keep it moving. Or if u want real answers go post on cryptotwitter, tag us with#ntsentmehere so WE CAN ALL LAUGH...I mean get knowledge dropped on ur "if Bitcoin isn't used for illicit activity, what is it good for" LOLOL. . Thx

"If you don't believe me or don't get it, I don't have time to try to convince you, sorry" - Satoshi Nakamoto.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

No one is banning bitcoin in America either. We don’t let companies go bankrupt without bailing them out, you think we’re going to personally close down Coinbase by banning bitcoin and cost hedge funds billions?

 

[oidreez]

Exactly. It's like is someone paying dude to spew that nonsense? This **** has been around for a decade and you're still asking what is it good for. It's only good for crime apparently

 

[mplsdunk]

How a ransom is paid isn’t going to stop the act of asking for randoms.

prohibition of anything doesn’t do **** but drive up the price of whatever you banned or find another way to pay in bitcoins case.

look at weed, once states could make more taxing it than they could locking black people up for it it’s legal and it’s the cool new thing with middle aged women.

crypto will be the same way.

 

[SupremeBeing5]

Osh Kosh trippin.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

This is why bitcoin exists, if you think it’s to kidnap your grandmother and hold her for reasons idk what to tell you hfsp

 

[jewseejay]

The year is 2021 and we still arguing fundamentals? Was tired of this convo a decade ago. Nothing is perfect. Dont let perfect be the enemy of better

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This is why bitcoin exists, if you think it’s to kidnap your grandmother and hold her for reasons idk what to tell you hfsp

i mean a currency that can rise on fall on the basis of an Elon Musk tweet
and is at risk of being totally decimated US government regulation

does not sound like a more stable alternative to fiat currency.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

How a ransom is paid isn’t going to stop the act of asking for randoms.

prohibition of anything doesn’t do **** but drive up the price of whatever you banned or find another way to pay in bitcoins case.

look at weed, once states could make more taxing it than they could locking black people up for it it’s legal and it’s the cool new thing with middle aged women.

crypto will be the same way.

no, making it easier to pay ransoms, incentivise ransomeres.
if Crypto doesn't make it easier to commit cyber crime THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF CRYPTO?

if i can't commit crimes with my decentralized private, irreversible transaction payment platform.
what can it do exactly?




maybe you're right and the government will accept crypto.

but id argue Crypto has limited utility to non criminals and non speculators.
weed has utility to anyone that wants to get high, which is a ton of people.


creating a broader base of support for government acceptance.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Bitcoin allows payments to be made through a decentralized network. These ransomware attacks took people's data, their information from a company, then offered the information back to the companies for a ransom. On a decentralized network, there is no chance of your personal information getting taken, like from a bank.

wut?

they just took down worlds largest meat producers, essentially knocking out 1/5th of america's meat production.

it's not just about "personal information"


all im saying is as these Cyber crimes get more dramatic.
its going to attract more regulatory scrutiny when all of them ask to be paid in bitcoin.