OFFICIAL COMIC BOOK THREAD

[domogotsole]

It is a matter of taste and culture. Remember the Spider-Woman cover where her behind was poked up? That was a problem for some of the masses as well. Ended up covering it up with the logo. But at the same time Spider-Man has been in that pose countless times and no backlash. It is just culture here to me to try to protect women and children. Wether they want to be protected or not.

 

[still itachi]

It is a matter of taste and culture. Remember the Spider-Woman cover where her behind was poked up? That was a problem for some of the masses as well. Ended up covering it up with the logo. But at the same time Spider-Man has been in that pose countless times and no backlash. It is just culture here to me to try to protect women and children. Wether they want to be protected or not.

I'm not on that feminist rallying cry...but I'd argue that there were real legitimate issues with that cover. Her rear was overtly sexualized.  That one to me seemed indefensible.

 

[domogotsole]

I'm not on that feminist rallying cry...but I'd argue that there were real legitimate issues with that cover. Her rear was overtly sexualized.  That one to me seemed indefensible.

I understand. Not even trying to start that argument up.

In other news, anyone read TMNT44? Craziness.

 

[Master Zik]

The controversy over Albuquerque's Joker cover is complete bull ****.

It's a variant cover for the Joker variant cover month. That's not the only cover that didn't tonally match the comic it had a variant cover for.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't match the contents of the comic. Thousands of variant covers have always been like that. It's like ppl have been missing the point of them to begin with.

This is another case of the social justice warriors specifically comic lames going hard because of something they don't like. Not cuz it's objectively wrong, just cuz they disagree. It's bull ****.

Lets not even get in to the cover itself being far from offensive.

Yeah, but DC doesn't have a large body of strong female characters. I think Marvel's somewhat better with that though.

Eh, DC's actually the company with the longer running female solo books and team books.

You might feel outside of WW that Marvel has maybe more popular female characters but for the most part DC has managed to stick with the females they make comics for longer. Not sure what you mean as strong though. I assume you mean presence wise as far being able to have staying power amongst fans not actual strength.

 

[jays25]

The controversy over Albuquerque's Joker cover is complete bull ****.

It's a variant cover for the Joker variant cover month. That's not the only cover that didn't tonally match the comic it had a variant cover for.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't match the contents of the comic. Thousands of variant covers have always been like that. It's like ppl have been missing the point of them to begin with.

This is another case of the social justice warriors specifically comic lames going hard because of something they don't like. Not cuz it's objectively wrong, just cuz they disagree. It's bull ****.

Lets not even get in to the cover itself being far from offensive.

Yeah, but DC doesn't have a large body of strong female characters. I think Marvel's somewhat better with that though.

Eh, DC's actually the company with the longer running female solo books and team books.

You might feel outside of WW that Marvel has maybe more popular female characters but for the most part DC has managed to stick with the females they make comics for longer. Not sure what you mean as strong though. I assume you mean presence wise as far being able to have staying power amongst fans not actual strength.

Most of which have been received terribly, but true.

And yes I was speaking in terms of Marvel having a wider range of female characters to pull from across the board, along with being well written. Though with that greater volume of characters also comes greater strength and powersets as well.

 

[tdogg2k]

this type of stuff along with other incidents are all by non comic readers...
50% of comic readers being women is the biggest bunch of Bull i've ever heard in my life. if that was true you would see that being the case at cons, shops, or even by online statistics.

I dont even read batman but i've known about that killing joke story and we've seen him put fear in batman himself on covers before...

same goes for the spider woman thing..
but o well. it is what it is... if that cover ever gets out that just made it worth hundreds now

 

[osh kosh bosh]

this type of stuff along with other incidents are all by non comic readers...
50% of comic readers being women is the biggest bunch of Bull i've ever heard in my life. if that was true you would see that being the case at cons, shops, or even by online statistics.

I dont even read batman but i've known about that killing joke story and we've seen him put fear in batman himself on covers before...

same goes for the spider woman thing..
but o well. it is what it is... if that cover ever gets out that just made it worth hundreds now

1. Your aware that you can buy comics at places other than comic books stores.

2. I think that number comes from market research firm.

3. Of the self identified comic book fans on Facebook 40% are women.


Just because you don't agree with their perspective doesn't mean they aren't comic fans.

Is really shocking to you that woman who reads comic wouldn't take too kindly to that cover?

 

[thejrob]

The controversy over Albuquerque's Joker cover is complete bull ****.

This is another case of the social justice warriors specifically comic lames going hard because of something they don't like. Not cuz it's objectively wrong, just cuz they disagree. It's bull ****.

I didn't want to get into this argument, but just to lay out a point that I think has been ignored.

1. C'mon son... social justice warriors going hard because they don't like it? Specifically comic lames? How can you dismiss a whole group of people's opinion on a topic like that. I don't know how many people like the cover and how many don't, but just looking at the response, I think it's safe to say that many men, women, old comic fans,and new comic fans are falling on both sides of the issue.

You obviously don't agree with pulling the cover, but if you aren't even willing to address their rationale then YOU are the only person "going hard because of something you don't like". If it doesn't offend you, that isn't a problem at all. Don't confuse yourself into thinking your moral standing is worth any more than anyone else who you may think is lame.

2. EVERYONE is resistant to change. We can't help it. It's tough and uncomfortable. We also have an internal trigger to people saying "things need to change to this way" which tells us "if that is true, then have I been doing it wrong the whole time? Does that invalidate what I did before?" The answer is NO, but it does put some question on the things you do after, if they are solely to resist change and keep up "Tradition". We tend to believe that "tradition" is always a good thing, but tradition changes with time too, and then people become attached to new traditions.

No one is saying that the way comics were done in the past is WRONG. No one is saying that at all. But the world in 2015 is telling the comic book industry that their traditions are no longer what is acceptable in 2015. For example: I go back and read plenty of older comics where there is literally blatant racism. As you move forward, you notice that the same racism starts to become vilified to the point that today it is literally viewed as a character quality common to villains or a character flaw someone needs to overcome. I'm sure at the times of blatant racism there were plenty of comic readers that we disgusted or insulted, but as sad as it is, the books tend to reflect the way many people felt at the time. Times changed though, not simply the comics. There was never an ultimatum day where social justice warriors won a battle and it was banned. Na. The world evolved and comics came along with the masses. A new american "tradition" of frowning upon racism. Did they ban any form of racism in any comic book or any racist characters. No of course not, but they did make it more in line with what we generally see on an every day basis.

America is going through a similar transition now with women.Just like racism still in america and our treatment of homosexuals, every issue can be at a different current status. Sure we enacted laws to give women equality, but I really find it difficult to believe that any male in america truly feels like females have it as well as us. Sure, there are plenty of benefits, but our society's traditions are based on males being the heads of society. We are resistant to change that would make it more equal because it sacrifices the past or the way things were. This is an issue that is being played out in the comic industry as well as so many other larger and more important arenas like the workplace.

I know it was a long rant, but just to give an analogous situation: a few months ago a women released a video of her walking around New York and constantly getting cat-called in ways she considered harassment. Personally, before I watched the video, I thought she was probably overreacting to things that we all consider normal. Then i watched it and realized, yeah that is NORMAL, but that doesn't mean it's FAIR. For example: I know that personally I tend to pull the look-back move when a female with a great body walks by. I didn't teach myself that move. It's natural and feels like what I've always been doing, but really it's just what I want to do, and something that isn't frowned upon enough to have made me realize it was unfair. Am I killing anyone, no...but would I want to be objectified in that way, hell no. Sure, I had the initial response of "Would I be mad if a few girls cat-called me telling me I'm good looking", no I wouldn't, but would I be pissed if our culture as a whole said that women objectifying men in society is completely acceptable.

Men aren't the bad guys in this whole scenario. We just happen to be the people that have long been in power. Times are changing and the people in power are always the most resistant to change. The fact is, for the world to be more fair to women, men are going to have to give up things that we didn't even know weren't just "men being men". Those things are "men being men in an unequal society to women". and as a man myself, those things are no longer worth it to me once I realized how they effect so many others that are equally important to our society as a whole.

Sorry for the rant. But this issue is so much bigger than comics. Currently the same type of war is going on in the comic industry based on the race of superheroes as they are re-interpreted. Look at race in America and tell me it isn't the same issue. Black/White issues in America are literally going through the same thing, an unwillingness to accept that the way we've been doing things for years is simply unacceptable. Does it mean the individuals are racists and bigots, no, but the way our society has been formed over the years based on the past of race in America is still out of date and it's our responsibility to change it, even if that means white people learning to do things a new way.

These issues are something I think is extremely important for people in my generation to embrace with open arms. I never thought I'd see the day Social Justice Warrior could be used as an insult. That's like shaming the whites that stood with the blacks fighting against segregation because they were simply "riding a popular social justice cause". Comments like those by osh kosh bosh about Runaways aren't trying to take away from the art form and industry, just trying to get it more in line with how we all feel as a diverse society in 2015.

 

[tdogg2k]

Just because you don't agree with their perspective doesn't mean they aren't comic fans.

Is really shocking to you that woman who reads comic wouldn't take too kindly to that cover?

I never said women aren't comic fans, , just saying its a 50 /50 industry at the moment is a bit stretched.

but whatever
theres been far worst comics since back in the day why is now in this day and age everything seems to be a problem.... EVERYTHING.... let it go is all im saying

 

[everysingletime]

Not really 50/50 but I think because of the movies there are more female comic fans than before.

But I think for the most part they are casuals that look forward to the movies instead of actually buying the comics

I think Marvel and DC are trying to change that.

 

[Master Zik]

There have always been female comic readers. Lets not pretend there hasn't. It was only until the 80s/90s where the focus targeted teenage boys specifically.

Since the 50s comics has had a huge female audience. It's only right that things are coming back around to that.

this type of stuff along with other incidents are all by non comic readers...
50% of comic readers being women is the biggest bunch of Bull i've ever heard in my life. if that was true you would see that being the case at cons, shops, or even by online statistics.

I dont even read batman but i've known about that killing joke story and we've seen him put fear in batman himself on covers before...

Eh, I'd have to assume the ppl doing all of this complaining at least read the Killing Joke and are possibly reading this new take on Batgirl.

same goes for the spider woman thing..
but o well. it is what it is... if that cover ever gets out that just made it worth hundreds now

That was bull **** too but for other reasons and I'd say are closer to the whole sexism feminism arguments.

Again that was another variant cover that ppl didn't have to buy if they didn't like it. Being offended that the cover was commissioned at all is bull **** though.

On one hand you got ppl saying artists over-sexualize female heroes which I agree can be a problem but on the other hand you got a faction of women that see a female being sexy and owning that as empowering and sends a good message. To me you can't have it both ways. Plus you now what you're getting from Manara but that goes along with these ppl playing dumb and choosing when they want to be outraged.

The controversy over Albuquerque's Joker cover is complete bull ****.

It's a variant cover for the Joker variant cover month. That's not the only cover that didn't tonally match the comic it had a variant cover for.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't match the contents of the comic. Thousands of variant covers have always been like that. It's like ppl have been missing the point of them to begin with.

This is another case of the social justice warriors specifically comic lames going hard because of something they don't like. Not cuz it's objectively wrong, just cuz they disagree. It's bull ****.

Lets not even get in to the cover itself being far from offensive.

Yeah, but DC doesn't have a large body of strong female characters. I think Marvel's somewhat better with that though.

Eh, DC's actually the company with the longer running female solo books and team books.

You might feel outside of WW that Marvel has maybe more popular female characters but for the most part DC has managed to stick with the females they make comics for longer. Not sure what you mean as strong though. I assume you mean presence wise as far being able to have staying power amongst fans not actual strength.

Most of which have been received terribly, but true.

And yes I was speaking in terms of Marvel having a wider range of female characters to pull from across the board, along with being well written. Though with that greater volume of characters also comes greater strength and powersets as well.

I don't know about received terribly. DC did a cheap but smart thing. Instead of wholly new female heroes they gave us spinoffs of already popular heroes which is why they had more than Marvel for so long; Supergirl, Batgirl, etc. and then that led to Birds of Prey.

Marvel arguably has a wider range that are more known but those characters are mostly regulated to team books specifically the bulk of the popular ones being in the X-Men. It's only been a recent thing that Marvel has been pushing more female titles and obviously for other reasons the push for Ms. Marvel who is now Captain Marvel. One thing I think hurts and helps is one of their more popular characters, Mary Jane is forever tied to Spidey. Outside of X characters that's there most popular character.

Is really shocking to you that woman who reads comic wouldn't take too kindly to that cover?

Yes.

Especially if you're insinuating that they've been comic readers for a long time. That's why I don't solely agree this is just women being mad at the cover.

It's a variant cover they do not have to buy. Nothing is really getting around this point.

I've actually seen females on twitter speak against the cover being pulled.

 

[jays25]

Master Zik I think you're downplaying just how many female heroes Marvel has to pull from, and more than a few have been around for decades. The , X-Men alone are filled with them. Jean Grey, Rachel Grey, Emma Frost, Ororo Munroe, Jubilee, Kitty Pryde, X-23, and really the list just goes on. Then move into the various teams and it grows larger with characters such as Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel, Photon, Wasp, Black Widow, Firestar, Jessica Jones, etc. And then there's the various other teams, along with the solo acts. As I said, DC has it when it comes to giving heroines their own series, but not all of them are received that well. The main ones in particular I think, Supergirl and Wonder Woman, were in fact reviled for quite a long time before the reboot due to various choices made with the characters, and different events they took part in.

I think when it comes to their verse that Marvel does a better job of creating a larger world than DC does, but both come into the same problem of using their cast of characters properly. As you said, heroines in Marvel tend to stick to team books, but at the same time not that many heroines in DC have their own books anyways. As of right now you've got Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Batgirl, and Batwoman. Harley Quinn also has one, but she's not a hero. Compare this to Marvel's current lineup of Thor (Currently a new female taking the mantle), Storm, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, and Ms. Marvel (Not Carol Danvers). I believe Elektra also just had a series end, but like Quinn she's not what you'd call a hero. So I don't really think DC's killing Marvel in terms of numbers. I agree that it hasn't always been this way necessarily, but the consistency of heroine books in general has fluctuated on both sides, with very few having the staying power of someone like Superman for example.

 

[Master Zik]

I'm not downplaying it. Just stating the realities of it.

All of the female characters in the X-Men are stuck in team books. None have shown they can sustain a solo title on their own and have a strong run where they're fighting their own villains and creating their own continuity. The mutants are stuck with mutant problems for the most part. That's not a bad thing but going off that it's pretty hard to get anything going. Coming down to the facts of the matter the only real viable females out of the X-Men that have a real chance are Storm and Jean Grey. One's dead and the other currently has a solo that isn't doing all that great sales wise cuz really they took too long to give her a solo.

Also I'm not looking at this from a quantity sort of thing. I'm sure DC has just as many female superheroes as Marvel. That's irrelevant. It's really how you use them.

I'd think the goal would be to have these female heroes stand on their own and become successful. The truth of the matter neither company has that many in comparison to the male superheroes. So they both haven't done a great job representing females over their existence. Marvel had the X-women and DC has manage to have WW, Supergirl, Batgirl, and then Birds of Prey. That's really only where DC has the edge. To me it says enough that DC's trinity is WW, Bats, and Supes while Marvel's trinity is Iron Man, Cap, and Thor. It's only been as of late that Marvel has been focusing on having more female titles. I wasn't just talking currently but overall in their publishing history.

Plus it's the little things. She-Hulk doesn't even get her own code name. She's literally just called the female Hulk

Personal taste, I prefer Marvel over DC when it comes to female heroes but I'm not gonna deny whose managed to keep their female characters in ongoing titles longer.

 

[domogotsole]

Latest pickup. Really feeling this cover. No idea why. Isn't the best art but I like the execution.

 

[Master Zik]

That was another really good issue of Hulk. I've been liking Duggan's run so far a lot since Aaron was on the book.

 

[tdogg2k]

Ill just put this here

 

[jays25]

Pretty much, yeah People are quick to lash out against something without fully researching the history though.

 

[thejrob]

Ill just put this here

Not only you personally, but this habit of exposing one idiot and thinking you won a whole argument is so stupid it hurts my brain.

Is that a woman who single handedly has been leading the movement against this cover and for female representation in comics? Did everyone who is against the cover vote for her to speak for them?

Congrats. Someone found an idiot online and owned them in an argument... Does that mean if I find the dumbest person in support of the cover and embarass him, then the cover is officially bad and none of you have a right to like it anymore or your immoral?

jays25 is right on... but don't get it confused and think there aren't people like that on both sides. Ignorant extremists don't represent the intelligent and moderate realists on either side of an argument.

 

[tdogg2k]

Every one is going to have their own opiniom and honestly there will be no winner in this debate...


Artistic freedom and freedom of speech is the main thing in this whole debate. But whatever this can all be dropped either way i dont care.

But as a fan of comic book characters looking like comic book characters not realistic. Draw what you want artist.

 

[thejrob]

^ of course my man. I'm not going at you personally at all, like you said we are all entitled to our opinions.

I support free speech and artistic freedom as much as anyone, it just doesn't really apply in this scenario at all. The artist used his freedom to make the cover no one stopped him. He actually asked for it to be pulled, whether from fan pressure or not, still his freedom to choose. But I'm sure we all believe DC had something to do with the canceling. DC using its freedom to publish whatever they want.

The only reason Freedom of Speech and Artistic Freedom was brought up is because the people who want the variant are mad. There is no freedom to force a company to publish something and let you buy it

People always forget. Having the freedom to do something, doesn't mean freedom from any consequences. All the fans protesting the cover just using their freedom too. And DC freedom trumps as all so we can get used to sucking it up as long as it deals with characters they own the rights to

 

[Master Zik]

Ill just put this here

This is a common thing among self righteous keyboard warriors Especially on twitter.

They'll say something wild after campaigning for hours for their latest movement and then try to make a comparison and when provided with proof or a logical rebuttal to their argument they will block you on twitter

 

[kvsm23vs24]

Anyone ever had their book graded?

I want my Batman #1 to be graded in those clear cases.

 

[domogotsole]

Anyone ever had their book graded?

I want my Batman #1 to be graded in those clear cases.

I have had a small handful graded by CGC and CBCS. IMO higher graded books 9.4-9.8 are graded more strictly by CBCS but about even any grade below they are pretty even. CBCS has clearer cases but a little bit more bulky than CGC. If you want to display them same rules apply as if your book is not graded. Keep out of sunlight, and even fluorescent.

 

[ghostmanq]

Just got infinity wars 1-6 today stoked to finally get to read threw them...

Still waiting for my guy to get inifity gauntlets 2/3/5 to complete that little set as well

Imma huge Thanos fan

 

[Master Zik]

You should get the recent Starlin Thanos stuff if you haven't read them; Infinity Revelation, Thanos vs. Hulk and a few more unannounced upcoming graphic novels about the mad Titan and Adam Warlock.