OFFICIAL HOCKEY THREAD: NHL, KHL, NCAA, IIHL

[gunna get it]

 

[addictedtofreshkicks]

Seems the media opinion is that they'll make a counteroffer instead of approving it.

This was to be expected... pretty much basic negotiating tactics.

 

[jjs07]

This was to be expected... pretty much basic negotiating tactics.

I think with this counter, both sides will find common ground and resolve this thing before the end of next week. My .02

 

[proshares]

I think with this counter, both sides will find common ground and resolve this thing before the end of next week. My .02

well everyone was begging for them to just accept it and move on.

 

[jjs07]

well everyone was begging for them to just accept it and move on.

I think they had to make a counter. If they flat out accepted it (w/o making another offer) the NHLPA would come off looking weak. My gut feeling is that they are REAL close to making a deal.

 

[proshares]

All depends on what the counteroffer is. They counter off that offer, they can't afford to go off base with their counter.

 

[philballa09]

well......

 

[lvjordan238]

I give up any hope of there being a season now, if what Bettman said is true, and the players are STILL asking for raises. **** them. Let's see how much they like missing a year (or more) of paychecks.|I

Last I checked 50% is better than 0%.

 

[philballa09]

right!.

im not even mad at Bettman or the owners anymore. Fehr is such a tool who almost destroyed baseball with their lockout and now hockey!!

hope the players realize that they are only hurting themselves with another full year lock out with their greedy !#% on a sport that is already not all that popular to begin with.

 

[foreverdecember21]

I hate Fehr...

 

[addictedtofreshkicks]

the day Fehr was hired a year or two back, I said he was going to ruin the game. Pretty sure I even posted it in one of our hockey threads... he did the same thing with the MLB in the mid 90s.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Do you guys even know the offer they turned beyond "OMG 50/50 take it" how is HRR defined? Do they have to give back money on contracts signed under the old CBA, feel like allot of people criticizing don fehr without any actual facts.

 

[foreverdecember21]

If you are following this heavily ... Then you know what the proposals say and do.. not to perfection but you know what the problems are..

Sure there is a lot of PR moves that are being made, and i dont care if its working on me... I call it how i see it,

For example... sure the PA agreed on the ideal of a 50/50 split but that sharing of HRR wont reach 50/50 til like yr FIVE of the new CBA.. And i think the 3 new proposals that the PA offered today want a ... 5/6 yr deal... like LOLWUT?

And Bettman said today that the "rumors" of redefining HRR is merely incorrect interpretation and untrue.. The meaning of HRR remains the same

Now i cant honestly say i do not know what falls into HRR so i cant speak much on that..

BUT if you look at everything.. The only one who has been moving towards the middle is the NHL... the PA has been holding their ground..

I understand somethings that the payers want.. they want a soft landing and they want to keep contracting rights such as long term contracts and etc and i side with them on them choosing how and who they want to play their careers with .. but it has to has limits as well..

NHLPA needs to compromise more.. Sure they lose money yearly to meet the 50/50 split and i understand they want their current contracts to be honored but cmon now... they come off as spoiled brats. And Fehr is the one heading that monster

Idk .. Im just over this and want to watch some NHL ... like someone said on HF

"I just want to give them my money
but they wont let me."

 

[Bad Religion]

The US Hockey Hall of Fame is like the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

 

[hawkflight6]

Wow any hope that I had for hockey this season is quickly going away

I'm really turned on the players here, everything I've heard just makes me hate Fehr more cause it doesn't seem like the players want to give up anything and if they stay with that stance we're not gonna have hockey for a long time

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The US Hockey Hall of Fame is like the Canadian Football Hall of Fame.

not really CFL is like a different sport with different rules.

Being a good NFL doesn't = being a good CFL player, Ricky WIlliams sucked for the argos.

Thus their is merit for a canadian football hall of fame.

 

[True Blues]

What most "fair" proposal in terms of splitting HRR, to my mind, is the third of the PA's three counters. Existing contracts should be honored, especially given the number of multi-million deals signed literally minutes before the 9/15 deadline, and 50/50 is a fair compromise and let's move on.

If a deal isn't done before Nov. 2, I don't see the season happening. Both sides are too petty, and Bettman loves to leverage game cancellations against the union.

 

[foreverdecember21]

See. I understand their gripe and I agree that players should have their contracts honored. Parise made a good point questioning the owners that say they are doing what they're doing in good faith.. but when they signed huge contracts to players on July 1st knowing they might not have to pay them the entire amount is def not in "good faith". I get that.

But they have to be realistic here. The owners want to start seeing their money up front. With some soft landing. If you can call it that, depending on what side you favor. the players and pa keeping saying constantly say there have sacrifices on both sides but the players feel like they should sacrifice anything. Like I said the NHL has move towards the middle. The players haven't. I think in the PAs latest proposals even result in players receiving a raise in the first yr..? If it's Fehr's plan and the players is to go after the salary cap, then we wont see the NHL back on the ice for a while. And it's a ******g shame.

Edit: Sorry for the typos or leaving words out.. Ive been replying via my phone since my laptop has been acting up

 

[foreverdecember21]

Dp*

 

[jjs07]

So....about them starting up on 11/2

 

[DeadsetAce]

anyone watching london v erie game?

 

[True Blues]

See. I understand their gripe and I agree that players should have their contracts honored. Parise made a good point questioning the owners that say they are doing what they're doing in good faith.. but when they signed huge contracts to players on July 1st knowing they might not have to pay them the entire amount is def not in "good faith". I get that.

But they have to be realistic here. The owners want to start seeing their money up front. With some soft landing. If you can call it that, depending on what side you favor. the players and pa keeping saying constantly say there have sacrifices on both sides but the players feel like they should sacrifice anything. Like I said the NHL has move towards the middle. The players haven't. I think in the PAs latest proposals even result in players receiving a raise in the first yr..? If it's Fehr's plan and the players is to go after the salary cap, then we wont see the NHL back on the ice for a while. And it's a ******g shame.

Edit: Sorry for the typos or leaving words out.. Ive been replying via my phone since my laptop has been acting up

How is the NHL moving towards the middle? Because their first offer was so hilariously low (43%)? If the NHLPA had asked for 65% of HRR initially would they now be seen as making concessions?

The players are understandably leery of an immediate reduction to 50% given the average percentage of revenue they lost via rollbacks and escrow after the lockout in 2004-05. If the revenues fall in the short-term, which they almost certainly will, the players are unfairly screwed out of money they were already owed. Fehr has said this multiple times: The players will not accept making less next season than they did the season previous. This is why most of the PA's proposals have used a percentage of growth as a framework.

Again, the most fair agreement is: 50/50 split of an agreed upon definition of HRR, with a two-tier model of player salaries signed before and after the CBA. Artificial rollbacks would be calculated on existing contracts to make them work under the cap, and players' real salaries would be "made whole" by the owners. Anyone signed after the CBA was agreed upon (so impending FAs) would be subject to the new rules. The players get their money, the owners get 50/50 going forward, and the fans get hockey again.

 

[foreverdecember21]

The NHL found the 50/50 though..

But anyways we know the players are not going to go straight into a 50/50.. but with some of the Mitt Romney type and/or the nhl not seeing 50 til half a decade (or wont at all depending on what proposal we're going off of) and towards the end of the labor agreement with de-linkage of current contracts isnt going to happen either and even getting a raise in their 1st yr is not realistic.

Again i agree with most of what you said should be implemented into the new CBA .. When and how they get to 50/50 ..?. Im to lazy to type this all out so ill copy and paste this..

Pierre LeBrun
As the risk of repeating myself, still believe a deal that starts at 54 or 53 % and phases into 50/50 by Year 3 or 4 would satisfy all needs

Contrary to what all the knee-jerk reactions were, that's the important part of the negotiation, not the revenue sharing calculation.

I highly doubt if the league comes up and says they will phase in 50% over the first two seasons that the players will look at the bottom line and say "no, we really want to stick with our calculations."

If the lawyers look through and say "with this deal you're only apart by $50M", I'm sure the players will want to get back on the ice a lot more than they want to sit through meetings.

This proposal (57% to 50% phased in for the first two years):

54.7 - 52.3 - 50 - 50 - 50

With 4% growth, that's $240M apart from the NHL's offer of 50% across the board. That's nearly a perfect compromise between the two sides.

Essentially, it's the NHL's offer but with an actual "make whole" and not one that is taken from the back end of the deal.

 

[DeadsetAce]

lucic's girl is hot and all...but god damn does she seem like one annoying chick

 

[Bad Religion]

I forgot to start someone in AP's place and lost by 7 points. :x

I would have had Andre Roberts in the W/T/RB slot and won by 10 if I wasnt such an idiot.