Official Miami Heat (4) vs OKC Thunder (1) NBA Finals Thread - Miami Heat NBA Champions

[Animal Thug]

What were you arguing though?

.

I said the Cavs had a great team, you said I was wrong. I stated facts, you disputed. What am I saying wrong here??

 Somebody forgot that Boobie Gibson scored 30 points as a rookie that lifted the Cavs past the Wizards to the Eastern Conference finals, yet he had no help??

C'mon bro. Pro, you've lost a lot of credibility with this argument. Seems like cats take stats from ESPN, than fail acknowledge what actually happened in those games. Smarten up bruh.


Oh and..

My point is you're not winning with guys averaging 10-12 PPG and you're the only one averaging above the teens. Double figures is sugar coating it when the points are that low. How am I now the only one saying this when everyone said this for years

So you can't win with one guy above teens, and others scoring 10-12?? Really? Cause I can name a few champion leaders who did.

.

 

[mez 0ne]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Dub is right, I remember fighting with dudes on here about Miller signing, and Haslem, I was bein told the spacing, defense, all of that would make it impossible to beat the Heat.  I remember that stuff well. 

And now we're back to Cleveland Lebron with no help. 

 

Maybe Wade and Bosh will get it turned around, cuz OKC is rollin right now, and barring injury, they're going to be real tough to beat 4 times in 2 weeks.  (we said the same about the Spurs tho, so anything's possible, sorry KG) 

OKC will gladly have Bron/Wade shoot from the perimeter, and those two are extremely streaky.
I like how people say "Oh, Bosh will spread the floor" as if that is why he is paid all of that money to do, to just spread the floor. He is just another jump shooter on that team and has not played like a "star", and I don't buy that Wade is hurt nonsense, he has shown he can play through it for some games (nobody cares about injuries come playoff time).

OKC just has able bodies, size inside, can play small ball, and are playing with more of a chip on their shoulder. OKC woke up for one half and they just ran away with it, and Harden did absolutely nothing. If OKC wins tonight, they will not lose 3 straight in Miami, and even if it comes to that they will not lose at home with the title on the line. This is as important a game for Miami as they've had with this group imo.

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by Proshares

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

Originally Posted by Proshares

What? 

  

A Laughing emoticon is not an argument. 

When it comes to saying he had a very good team in Cleveland, yes it is.  I'll give you Z as an adequate player but the rest of that roster, you're not going to get a lot of people to say he ever had a good team around him.  They were at or near the top of the EC year after year because of one player only.

Stop it. It just doesn't happen that way. How are you going to take the first line (before I even explained what I meant) and reply with such a nonsensical statement. He's had Larry Hughes, Antwan Jamison (before you laugh, imagine how Wiz fans feel), Big Z, Drew Gooden, etc. I'm pretty sure they were well above .500 when LeBron was out. Add D-Wade and Bosh and the results are still the same. Pick one, which supporting cast is better (Heat or Cavs)? I'd say the answer the answer is "doesn't matter" because both teams were the best in the east during their time, but neither has truly been best in the league for different reasons and at different times. 
I'll say it again, the Heat, just like the Cavs of old, are dominating a weak conference. That does not make them a bad team. It just makes them what they are: Unstoppable when most calls go their way, and beatable when the refs don't prop them up. 

 

[mr s j king]

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Can't have it both ways...if Bron was the whole team and got them at least to the Finals with a bunch of so called scrubs then surely he can get it done with two top 40 players on his squad now? Yet he needs more help?!? C'mon son.

He has gotten done. The Heat went to the Finals last year, and didn't get swept. The East was weak during those years they were playing Globetrotter ball in Cleveland. The fact that team went to the Finals is a testament to how great a player he was in Cleveland.

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by Mr S J King

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Can't have it both ways...if Bron was the whole team and got them at least to the Finals with a bunch of so called scrubs then surely he can get it done with two top 40 players on his squad now? Yet he needs more help?!? C'mon son.

He has gotten done. The Heat went to the Finals last year, and didn't get swept. The East was weak during those years they were playing Globetrotter ball in Cleveland. The fact that team went to the Finals is a testament to how great a player he was in Cleveland.

and to the excellent role players he had around him

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

---

Proshares wrote:

---

knightngale wrote:

---

Dude had a very good team in Cleveland.

What? 

  

A Laughing emoticon is not an argument. 


How about the fact that the Cavs went from the best record in the league with LeBron to the second-worst record in the league the following season without LeBron including a record setting 26 losses in a row? Does that qualify as an argument?

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by Mr S J King

Originally Posted by Mamba MVP

Can't have it both ways...if Bron was the whole team and got them at least to the Finals with a bunch of so called scrubs then surely he can get it done with two top 40 players on his squad now? Yet he needs more help?!? C'mon son.

He has gotten done. The Heat went to the Finals last year, and didn't get swept. The East was weak during those years they were playing Globetrotter ball in Cleveland. The fact that team went to the Finals is a testament to how great a player he was in Cleveland.

I love it it. Keep judging LeBron by Eastern Conference standards to  protect him, but if you want the truth judge him by the league. This is the same crap Iverson fans keep spewing. "He carried his team by himself," and "It show's how great he is." Cut the crap. Was the East as weak as you say or does LeBron deserve credit for carrying the Cavs to the Finals? It really can't go both ways.   

 

[seasoned vet]

....i wonder. i wonder what will they say when MIA wins? then what?
 
 
 

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

---

Proshares wrote:

---

What? 

  

A Laughing emoticon is not an argument. 

How about the fact that the Cavs went from the best record in the league with LeBron to the second-worst record in the league the following season without LeBron including a record setting 26 losses in a row? Does that qualify as an argument?
No it does not. Does it explain how the team won more than half of the games when LeBron was out but still part of the roster, but had a sub-.500 record for games Varejao was out?
Also, check the injuries on that squad after LeBron left. Different year, different squad, demoralized team, and possible tanking. I'll go by past facts/data and not theoretical scenarios, thanks. 

 

[Animal Thug]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

---

Proshares wrote:

---

What? 

  

A Laughing emoticon is not an argument. 

How about the fact that the Cavs went from the best record in the league with LeBron to the second-worst record in the league the following season without LeBron including a record setting 26 losses in a row? Does that qualify as an argument?

No. Because obviously, you forget the loss of other people as well:

GM.
Coach.
Delonte.
Zydrunas.
Shaq.
Varejao for half the season.

Then halfway through the season, loss Mo Williams, etc. You think all that doesn't matter, but it changed everything.

So no. It's not a qualified argument.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Sooo.....Anything about tonight's game?

 

[trasoul82]

Originally Posted by dreClark

Sooo.....Anything about tonight's game?

LeBron needs more help. 

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by TraSoul82

---

A Laughing emoticon is not an argument. 

How about the fact that the Cavs went from the best record in the league with LeBron to the second-worst record in the league the following season without LeBron including a record setting 26 losses in a row? Does that qualify as an argument?

No. Because obviously, you forget the loss of other people as well:

GM.
Coach.
Delonte.
Zydrunas.
Shaq.
Varejao for half the season.

Then halfway through the season, loss Mo Williams, etc. You think all that doesn't matter, but it changed everything.

So no. It's not a qualified argument.

Clearly it was only Lebron leaving.  Not the other 8 guys that left that team. 

Dre, everything will switch to the game itself once 9/6 o clock gets here.  Then it will be ALL game. 

Then tomorrow, back to riff raff talk. 

 

[scientific method]

at the Ronnie Ketch Design & Build hobby store.

 

[bean pie slanga]

LOL @ ESPN

They had this on the ticker: Durant 0-2 FG when guarded by Lebron James in Game 1

Uh, cool.

 

[solarius49]

Lets not forget the team of bums that Wade won the finals with

Over the Hill Shaq
Zo who was half past dead
over the hill Gary Payton
Shandon Anderson
Jason Kapono
Haslem
Michael Doleac
Earl Barron
Wayne Simiean
Antoine Walker
White Chocolate
Dorrel Wright
James Posey

I'll wait for you to find a player on that roster who is anywhere near the talent level of Bosh or James

 

[big j 33]

Shaq was not over the hill then, 20 and 9, 30 minutes a game, 60% from the field. He wasn't the same dominant Shaq from the LA championships, but still.

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Shaq was not over the hill then, 20 and 9, 30 minutes a game, 60% from the field. He wasn't the same dominant Shaq from the LA championships, but still.

ok so they lost Shaq and gained James.......

 

[xtapolapacetl]

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

TraSoul82 wrote:

---

---

Proshares wrote:

---

What? 

  

A Laughing emoticon is not an argument. 


How about the fact that the Cavs went from the best record in the league with LeBron to the second-worst record in the league the following season without LeBron including a record setting 26 losses in a row? Does that qualify as an argument?


No. Because obviously, you forget the loss of other people as well:

GM.
Coach.
Delonte.
Zydrunas.
Shaq.
Varejao for half the season.

Then halfway through the season, loss Mo Williams, etc. You think all that doesn't matter, but it changed everything.

So no. It's not a qualified argument.



LeBron didn't play 7 games in the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons when the Cavs had the best record in the league. They were 1-6 in those 7 games. Your winner Varejao played in most if not all of these 7 games (didn't have time to check every single game).

Delonte: The same Delonte that missed 40 games for the Cavs in the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons, and the Cavs having a 33-7 record in those 40 games? Yeah, I can see they needed him badly.
Ilgauskas: This dude at 27 years old and at his very peak, averaging career high in ppg led the Cavs to a phenomenal 17-65 record in 02-03, the last season before LeBron got there. I am sure he would've had a great impact and saved the Cavs from so many losses at 35 years old had he stayed with them for the 2010-11 season.
Shaq: The same Shaq that came to the Cavs for the 09-10 season, when they already had a 66-16 record 08-09 season without him? Not to mention the fact that he missed almost half of the 09-10 season anyway.
Varejao: 8-23 record in the 31 games he played for the 10-11 Cavs. Looks like he took a lot of Ls in the part of the season he did play as well. Nice try with the "out for the half season" attempt though. Added one more line on your list in a desperate attempt to show the long list of "differences".
Mo Williams: Played 58 games in 10-11, 19-39 record.

You were just naming differences just for the sake of naming differences so that your list got longer. Surprised that you didn't see if some of the Cavs' medical staff was changed for the 10-11 season as well. That would've added one more precious line to your list of "differences". And of course you conveniently left out the players the 10-11 Cavs added.

None of those differences mattered in the end and. Most of those players are garbage. The remaining decent ones are at best a 3rd, but probably closer to 4th option on a proper championship team and you know it.

 

[solarius49]

Originally Posted by Xtapolapacetl

Originally Posted by Animal Thug1539

Xtapolapacetl wrote:

---

How about the fact that the Cavs went from the best record in the league with LeBron to the second-worst record in the league the following season without LeBron including a record setting 26 losses in a row? Does that qualify as an argument?

No. Because obviously, you forget the loss of other people as well:

GM.
Coach.
Delonte.
Zydrunas.
Shaq.
Varejao for half the season.

Then halfway through the season, loss Mo Williams, etc. You think all that doesn't matter, but it changed everything.

So no. It's not a qualified argument.

LeBron didn't play 7 games in the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons when the Cavs had the best record in the league. They were 1-6 in those 7 games. Your winner Varejao played in most if not all of these 7 games (didn't have time to check every single game).

Delonte: The same Delonte that missed 40 games for the Cavs in the 08-09 and 09-10 seasons, and the Cavs having a 33-7 record in those 40 games? Yeah, I can see they needed him badly.
Ilgauskas: This dude at 27 years old and at his very peak, averaging career high in ppg led the Cavs to a phenomenal 17-65 record in 02-03, the last season before LeBron got there. I am sure he would've had a great impact and saved the Cavs from so many losses at 35 years old had he stayed with them for the 2010-11 season.
Shaq: The same Shaq that came to the Cavs for the 09-10 season, when they already had a 66-16 record 08-09 season without him? Not to mention the fact that he missed almost half of the 09-10 season anyway.
Varejao: 8-23 record in the 31 games he played for the 10-11 Cavs. Looks like he took a lot of Ls in the part of the season he did play as well. Nice try with the "out for the half season" attempt though. Added one more line on your list in a desperate attempt to show the long list of "differences".
Mo Williams: Played 58 games in 10-11, 19-39 record.

You were just naming differences just for the sake of naming differences so that your list got longer. Surprised that you didn't see if some of the Cavs' medical staff was changed for the 10-11 season as well. That would've added one more precious line to your list of "differences". And of course you conveniently left out the players the 10-11 Cavs added.

None of those differences mattered in the end and. Most of those players are garbage. The remaining decent ones are at best a 3rd, but probably closer to 4th option on a proper championship team and you know it.
So basically you're saying that a team didnt perform well without its star....obviously.  But that doesnt mean that they werent good complimentary pieces around him.

 

[Arthur Shelby]

D Wade is at the gym already working hard ? i heard dan lebatard & stugotz just mention that he was 

 

 

[buggz05]

I completely forgot that the Finals is a 2-3-2 series

 

[maxelite]

Line moved half a point in OKC favor despite the betting being even on both sides. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[aztec06jr]

Originally Posted by solarius49

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Shaq was not over the hill then, 20 and 9, 30 minutes a game, 60% from the field. He wasn't the same dominant Shaq from the LA championships, but still.

ok so they lost Shaq and gained James.......

You're saying that since Wade led a terrible team to the Finals, this year's Heat should have no problem winning the championship. You use that conclusion as an indirect attack on Wade, LeBron, Bosh, etc.

The flaw (of many) that I see? You're not taking into account that the Thunder this year may either be better than the 06 Mavs and/or a worse matchup. 

Using your logic, MJ should have won every year since he had, at a minimum, at least 1 good supporting player....you know, since Wade did it once...

Charles Barkley would say "Turrible"

 

[usafant]

Bron will drop 30+ and have a double double tonight and still get blamed for the loss somehow. No stan but it's crazy how much we all take dude for granted. We're so used to dude dropping double doubles...triple doubles and these crazy statlines and it dosen't even impress us no more I think sometimes. We want to see that stuff every night and on top of that 5 dunks and him hit the game winner.