Official MMA Thread-UFC on FOX 3, 5/5/12 - Anyone asking for stream links = banned.

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Mike Kyle is a talentless sack of @#%$. He turned an MMA match into a back-alley streetfight. Horrible decision to let that piece of @#%$ back into the ring.
MICHIGAN WOLVERINES​
 
anybody know whats the deal or update with babalu and his incident????
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The total payroll for the event was $954,000 (though 68 percent of it went to Liddell and Rua).

The full amounts included:

Keith Jardine ($14,000) def. Chuck Liddell ($500,000)
Forrest Griffin ($44,000) def. Mauricio Shogun Rua ($150,000)
Jon Fitch ($44,000) def. Diego Sanchez ($22,000)
Lyoto Machida ($50,000) def. Kazuhiro Nakamura ($20,000)
Tyson Griffin ($24,000) def. Thiago Tavares ($9,000)
Rich Clementi ($24,000) def. Anthony Johnson ($5,000)
Jeremy Stephens ($6,000) def. Diego Saraiva ($3,000)
Christian Wellisch ($14,000) def. Scott Junk ($4,000)
Matt Wiman ($16,000) def. Michihiro Omigawa ($5,000)
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You bring him in, he beats Jardine, give him a title shot. It's a very marketable fight. You play the same game you played with Rampage and Chuck where you show the footage of him sending Page through the ropes and the PPV buys skyrocket.


I'm not contesting that Wandy v. Page wouldnt be a marketable fight, I just think its BS that he would be getting such a fast track to the title when the division is so stacked.

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HAHAHAHA for all those who think that Gracie is gonna win, care to do a Sig bet (i know its lame, but i guess we cant really bet in person) Loser must keep a SIG made by the winner for a month. Anyone game?
NTer tinkerhatfield: aite im game...but youre like 4 sizes too small for me....i have some sz 12 retro ix's i'll definitely put up tho..
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IMO, the next few light heavyweight fights should be:

Wandy vs. Jardine

Alexander vs. Machida

Shogun vs. Bonnar

Evans vs. Ortiz

Rampage vs. Forrest

Chuck vs. Bisping (if he stays at lhw)


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shogun / iceman would be a good fight. if liddell loses it's a wrap, wec time.

and yeah forrest should get that title bout.


Clutch.

Nascar and Poker ARE NOT SPORTS!!!
 
Does anyone else feel that one reason that some of the guys coming out of Pride are coming in small? Like it seems they don't really cut at all. Shogun is small, Mirko could probably be a LHW, Wandy is an inch shy under 6 and he can probably fight at 185 more effectively, etc.
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I completely disagree. You guys need to think as marketers as well.
Does it really make any sense to put Silva against one opponent only?
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Here's an article(s) from ufc.com about what all this arguing has been about.


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What a difference a year makes.

In October 2006, then-UFC champion Chuck Liddell reigned as the most dominant light heavyweight on the planet, while an unranked Quinton Rampage Jackson languished in limbo without a fight deal with a major promotion. Over in Japan, Wanderlei Silva ruled PRIDEs 205-lb division, with a red-hot Mauricio Shogun Rua standing at his side as the clear heir apparent.

Today, Rampage holds the UFC Light Heavyweight Championship. Fans wonder how much gas is left in Liddells 38-year-old (in two months) tank after losing back-to-back fights for the first time in his career. Silva will finally make his UFC debut, though like Liddell, he is coming off consecutive losses for the first time in his storied career. And Shogun is left wondering what happened at UFC 76.

With the 205-lb world turned upside down over the past year, its time to take a survey of the UFC light heavyweight landscape.

DIVISION KINGPIN

Quinton 'Rampage' Jackson (28-6): Lots of fighters win championships. Great fighters defend them. Rampages stunning first-round knockout win over Liddell at UFC 71 earned him the championship he long coveted. But it was his five-round war with Dan Henderson at UFC 75 that legitimized the affable Rampage as a truly great fighter. The sports first undisputed champion is a highly skilled boxer with jaw-dropping physical strength and vastly underrated wrestling and ground skills. Questions still exist about his ability to defend knee strikes though, as he suffered two knockout losses to Wanderlei Silva and a technical knockout loss to Shogun from knees. But those losses occurred more than two years ago. Rampage is 16-3 since 2002, including his current six-fight winning streak. If he has rectified that perceived hole in his game, there is no telling how long the 29-year-old champion will reign supreme.

A MAN NAMED FORREST

Forrest Griffin (15-4): Griffin embodies everything that makes MMA the greatest sport in the world. He fights for the love of competition, not just for the ever-increasing purses. He ducks absolutely nobody, constantly asking to fight the very best in the world. He is a humble, at times vulnerable, superstar with a constant smile and a steady flow of self-deprecating quips. And, most importantly, he leaves a piece of his soul in the Octagon each and every time that he fights. Griffin is the UFCs version of Arturo Gatti a throwback fighter with a massive heart and a penchant for engaging in thrilling slugfests. Yet, he is quickly proving that unlike Gatti, he is not an A-list gatekeeper but a true elite fighter in his own right. Griffins big upset win over Shogun at UFC 76 should be enough to justify a title shot in his next fight. Nobody can make a more persuasive argument as the number one contender in my opinion.

ELITE OR EXPOSED?

Shogun Rua (16-3): Talk about stumbles. Virtually everyone labeled Chute Boxes young superstar the next in line to hold UFC gold. While that may still hold true, he ran into a freight train named Forrest in his UFC debut. The absence of Shoguns jumping, spinning and explosive strikes, as well as his soft physique and sluggish demeanor, will leave fight cognoscenti questioning whether he took Forrest lightly. Or was this just another vivid example of the fact that the UFC remains (and always has been) the Mecca of MMA? Regardless, one loss does not diminish any fighter, particularly one who has all the tools to be an ultra dominant champion. Expect the 25-year-old Brazilian to return in his next outing with his trademark explosive, unorthodox style and firmly reestablish himself among the UFC elite. Griffin and Keith Jardine did just that at UFC 76.

Wanderlei Silva (31-7-1): There was a time, not so long ago, that Wanderlei Silva was the most feared man in the sport across all divisions. The Axe Murderer ruled PRIDEs 205-lb division for five full years and 21 fights with but a controversial single loss to a guy who outweighed him by more than 50 lbs (Mark Hunt). His reign included wins over all-time great Kazushi Sakuraba (three times, to be precise) and two knockout wins over Rampage Jackson. Silva is the epitome of an all-action Muay Thai fighter with bone shattering power in his fists and knees who only knows how to fight one way coming forward with reckless abandon and the throttle wide open. Did I mention that he also holds a black belt in jiu-jitsu? Silva returns to the Octagon after a nearly eight-year absence on the heels of back-to-back knockout losses to Cro Cop and Henderson. Has he been in one too many wars, or at 31 is he still in the prime of his amazing career? The divisions elite surely hope it is the former, because if it is the latter, then there very well could be a new sheriff in town.

Chuck Liddell (20-5): Over the past 40 months, Liddell has been the Mike Tyson of MMA. Not the unpredictable menace that folks watched with car-accident curiosity. Rather, he was the guy we called Kid Dynamite who tore through heavyweight boxers behind two-fisted knockout power like nobody before or since. Liddell has the perfect blend of lights-out power in both hands and the best takedown/scrambling ability in the game. Those skills led him to UFC gold, mainstream superstardom and multimillions in the bank. Liddell seemed unbeatable as early as a year ago, but no fighter beats Father Time. Two months shy of his 38th birthday, Liddell and his longtime trainer and friend, John Hackleman, need to ask themselves whether his two recent losses are just part of the sport or if the Iceman is on the downside of a brilliant career. The loss to Rampage can certainly be chalked up to the former. But he didnt look like the Iceman of old against Jardine, who had more success against Liddell than he did against Stephan Bonnar and Rashad Evans. Liddell is in the midst of his first two-fight losing streak. Nevertheless, he suffered two technical knockout losses in a three-fight span back in 2003. He rebounded with seven straight knockout wins to become the face of the sport.

Tito Ortiz (16-5-1): Once the poster boy of MMA, Ortiz is desperate for a dominant win over a credible opponent. The affable, entertaining former champion is a box office hit, but that wont continue if he keeps stringing up less than stellar performances. Think otherwise? Aside from a washed up Ken Shamrock, the Huntington Beach Bad Boy hasnt stopped an opponent since 2001. Again, Shamrock aside, he hasnt scored a decisive win since he defeated current middleweight combatant Patrick Cote back in 2004. Many believe that he lost his 2006 bout with Forrest Griffin. And some, including this writer, believe that he was absolutely robbed of victory against Rashad Evans in his last bout after referee Big John McCarthy took a point away from him for holding onto the fence, despite the fact that Evans finished the takedown. Those might be harsh criticisms of Ortiz, but even he would agree that he is in need of a dominant win. Ortiz will someday go down as one of the greatest light heavyweight champions in history, as he still holds the record for consecutive 205-lb title defenses. Expect a more aggressive Ortiz to show up in his next bout, particularly if he is staring across the Octagon at Evans, as he is in search of a statement win that will propel him to yet another title opportunity in 2008.



Yesterday, we examined the 205-lb ultra elite, including champion Quinton Rampage Jackson, former UFC champs Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz, PRIDE standouts Wanderlei Silva and Shogun Rua, and top contender Forrest Griffin. Now, it is time to move from the best of the best to those who will be jockeying for title shots in 2008 and the guys poised to carry the division for the next decade.

PRIMETIME PLAYERS

Keith Jardine (13-4-1): How does one catapult to the top of the division after getting undressed by a UFC newcomer? Out slug Liddell in a standup war in your very next fight thats how. Jardine is a well-rounded fighter with very effective standup anchored by brutal kicks to the body and legs. He used those kicks to set up his good overhand right against Liddell. He might not have one-punch knockout power or crisp combinations on the feet, but his awkward style and sneaky good ground game make him a difficult match up for most. One more marquee win and Jardine could be on the verge of a title shot in 2008.

Rashad Evans (15-0-1): The Ultimate Fighter heavyweight winner is on the verge of greatness. Much like Forrest Griffin, however, he appeared hesitant when he finally stepped into the Octagon against a true A-list fighter Ortiz. After a lackluster effort in the first two rounds, he won the third on every judges scorecard. A performance like that can do wonders for a young fighters confidence, and at the highest level, confidence sometimes makes the difference. Look for Evans to be more aggressive if he secures a rematch with Ortiz. The ultra athletic light heavy seems poised to position himself for a title shot very soon.

Lyoto Machida (11-0): The undefeated Brazilian first turned heads on the MMA scene when he knocked out former UFC Middleweight Champion Rich Franklin. The problem, however, is that he is a defense-first fighter who most often throws strikes with the intent on scoring points not knockouts, ala Floyd Mayweather. While that approach may be extremely effective, it is less than crowd-pleasing, so it is unlikely that he will receive a shot against one of the divisions box office champions until he becomes more aggressive. His dominant, aggressive effort against Kazuhiro Nakamura at UFC 76 was a giant step in the right direction.

HANDLE WITH EXTREME CAUTION

Houston Alexander (8-1): It took Alexander less than two full minutes to viciously dispose of Jardine and Alessio Sakara. Huge questions hover over his ground game because nobody has seen it in action inside the Octagon. All weve seen so far is Alexander attack with the fearlessness of an apex predator using two fists filled with dynamite. Can he survive if the fight hits the mat? His lone career loss came by way of choke in his professional debut more than seven years ago. It is hard to imagine any of the top names agreeing to fight this guy until they have no other choice. He is that dangerous with his hands. A bout with a guy like Stephan Bonnar seems to be the logical next step for the Nebraska resident. At 35 years old, however, he needs to find a shortcut to a title shot, so it might be time for Alexander to begin calling out guys like the Axe Murderer or Liddell.

NEXT GENERATION STARS

Michael Bisping (15-0): The Liverpool, England resident proves that elite-level MMA isnt limited to the US, Brazil and Japan. Bisping is an exciting striker with a vastly underrated ground game, particularly from his back. He is quickly growing into the face of the UFC for UK fans, but the Ultimate Fighter 205-lb winner needs to either bulk up or drop to 185-lbs. Otherwise, he will face serious size and strength deficits as he moves into the divisions elite. After walking away with a controversial decision win over bitter rival Matt Hamill, Bisping reacted to the criticism by demanding a rematch. That is the heart of a warrior.

Thiago Silva (11-0): Thiago Silva has the MMA world at his fingertips. The 24-year-old Brazilian is a black belt in jiu-jitsu who lists murderous striker Wanderlei Silva as his hero. In other words, he mixes elite submission skills with the vicious standup game that serves as the trademark for his word-class fight team Chute Boxe Academy. The next-generation superstar has the tools to challenge Shogun Rua as the future of the division.

Matt Hamill (5-1): Hamill is by far the least experienced competitor among our list of 205-lb players. But anyone with wrestling skills, natural athleticism and freakish strength like this guy deserves a mention. His biggest problem is that he is getting into the game at a very late age. The 30-year-old is far behind his peers in terms of experience and training. But as he showed against Bisping, he is someone to be reckoned with in the 205-lb division. If his learning curve to date is any indication as to how he will improve in the future, then everyone in the division will take notice of this guy before the end of 2008.

DONT FORGET ABOUT ME

Kazuhiro Nakamura (11-7): The embodiment of Japans samurai warriors, Nakamura is a well-rounded fighter who only loses to the best in the world. He was sort of a gatekeeper to the 205-lb elite in PRIDE. Now that he is in the UFC, he would be better served dropping down to 185 lbs, where he would be able to match size and strength with his opponents. A one-sided loss to the undefeated Machida highlights that point.

Stephan Bonnar (13-4): An unfortunate steroid blunder sidelined the former reality show star for nearly a year after suffering back-to-back losses in 2006 to Evans and Griffin. That is enough for most fighters to waltz off to Mike Tysons favorite place Bolivion. Not Bonnar. He returned in July with a statement win over Mike Nickels, reminding the world that he was once on the cusp of the top 10. It shouldnt surprise anyone if he works his way back into the division elite before the end of 2008.

James Irvin (12-4, 1 no contest): A loss to Thiago Silva after suffering an unfortunate knee injury in his last bout doesnt change the fact that Irvin is always one punch, kick or knee away from beating any 205-lb fighter in the world period. If the Sandman can improve his takedown defense and ability to scramble back to his feet, then he will become a monster in the Octagon because this guy can stand and strike with anyone.

Alessio Sakara (15-6, 1 no contest): The former pro boxer has yet to live up to the hype that surrounded him when he arrived in the Octagon back in February 2006. Sakaras two biggest problems are his lack of a UFC-level ground game and a suspect chin. Regardless, those vulnerabilities make him fun to watch because he is either going to knock out his opponent standing or get finished himself. Either way, it wont be a boring fight.

Jason Lambert (23-6): Jason Lambert is a nightmarish matchup for anyone except ultra-dominant wrestlers or guys with elite takedown defense. The undersized light heavy is like a walking bulldog. He doesnt have the most impressive standup, but his takedown skills and ground game are enough to give pause to most opponents, and his tenacity makes up for some of his physical shortcomings. His height and frame make him best suited for a career at 185 lbs, but his win over Babalu forces everyone to take him seriously as a 205-lb contender.

Wilson Gouveia (9-4): A question mark who came into the Octagon in 2006 with a 6-3 record, Gouveia almost upset Jardine in his UFC debut before running out of gas and losing a three round decision, and has since gone on to impressive submission victories over Wes Combs, Seth Petruzelli, and Carmelo Marrero. Comfortable on the ground or striking, Gouveia could be the darkhorse contender in this division.

DREAM MATCHUPS

UFC matchmaker Joe Silva has done an amazing job over the years and few, if any, fighters get a free pass in the form of a walkover opponent. Instead, Silva and his boss, Dana White, force guys to constantly test their mettle in difficult matchups that are often crowd pleasers. Silva certainly doesnt need any advice, but here is a list of matchups that would get fight fans talking.

Rampage vs. Wanderlei Silva III: Who cares if Silva is coming off back-to-back losses? He dominated Rampage twice. No other fighter in the world can make a similar claim, which is why he deserves a UFC title shot ASAP.

Rampage vs. Griffin: Griffin dominated the sports 205-lb heir apparent enough said.

Liddell vs. Alexander: Actually, this matchup isnt limited to Liddell. Alexander versus Wanderlei Silva or Shogun Rua would cause equal hardcore salivation. All I can say for any of those bouts is dont blink! These are standup dream matchups.

Liddell vs. Wanderlei Silva: This long-awaited matchup needs to happen now. Losses be damned. Ali-Frazier III was one of the best boxing matches in history. Liddell versus Silva can make similar sweet music.

Evans vs. Ortiz II: Ortiz was robbed of victory in their first bout. But even Ortiz will readily admit that he can do better. Ortiz needs to prove that he has many years of marquee matchups, if not championships, ahead of him. To do that, he must beat Evans convincingly. If not, Evans might be the one poised to elevate to the next level.

Rampage vs. Shogun II: Griffin derailed this dream matchup. But like his Chute Boxe teammate Silva, Shogun owns an impressive, dominant win over Rampage. Give the guy one win inside the Octagon and it will then be time to elevate him to a title shot.

Bisping vs. Hamill II: Hamill probably deserved the nod the first time around. But Bisping is nobodys punk. Rather than take the win and run, he now demands a rematch. I say lets give it to him! I suspect that he rematch will be much more definitive, whoever wins.

Bisping vs. Irvin: Once his knee is healthy, Irvin would be the perfect test for Bisping at 205 lbs. Irvin, who has competed from heavyweight to 185 lbs knows the importance of finding the right weight division. If this one stays standing, Id favor Irvin in a timeless war. But that would be the outcome that could prompt Bisping to either bulk up or drop to 185 lbs, and it would establish the Sandman as a 205-lb contender./quote]
Clutch.ARE NOT SPORTS!!!
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Good look on that Clutch. Pretty good read and nice to see them kind of lay all the LHW's out for us. Especially the verterans towards the end that I think would make for great developmental fights for the young talent in the UFC at LHW. Throw Elvis Sinosic in there.

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As I said a while back in this thread, there's no way a fighter will get a title shot with one win. Yup, you're right, sponsors would love it, but it'd hurt Dana too. why?
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Anderson Silva-One fight=Title Shot


Because the middlweight division was mind numbingly weak and boring at the time. Still is.

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Rampage Jackson-One fight=Title Shot


Because at the time Liddell had anihilated everyone else in the division. lhw division got stacked right after that wi the addition of hendo, silva, rua.

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Dan Henderson went right in.
Clutch.ARE NOT SPORTS!!!
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^^^^

K. What's your point? Do you have one?

We all know why the fights happened. As I stated very clearly, it was because they were the best fights, i.e. most marketable, at the time. As Wand and Rampage would be.

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Because at the time Liddell had anihilated everyone else in the division. lhw division got stacked right after that wi the addition of hendo, silva, rua.
TEAM AM FAM
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And 2 of those guys just lost. So in your own words, who's left?

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Aren't you the guy who wanted to throw Bisping and Hamil in against Top 5 LHW but you think Wanderlei needs multiple bouts before he fights Rampage?

Interesting......


Seriously, i dont get why you wouldn't make such fights. Any fighter can beat any other one, i think ufc 76 furthered that, it's the nature of mma. the best fighters will win out and rise to the top.

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The LHW division is deep. But the whole point of the article you posted is that it's completely unsettled.


Exactly. there isnt really a plan you can follow for non title matchups in that division right now

As for a 2 fight minimum, I don't see Dana taking that risk with what happened to Cro Cop, Shogun and almost happened to Nog.

Like someone posted in there. Have him fight one of those lower dudes on the list, pray he doesn't it up, and line up the Rampage fight. I believe someone suggested he fight Gouveia. I'm with that.

Or have him fight Chuck. it.

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I guess Forrest is another option. But again, to me it's ridiculous that people would think that Forrest should fight for a title now and Wanderlei shouldn't.

I mean.......you guys do know who Wanderlei Silva is, right?
Victories If jardine could beat silva i could vouch for a title shot for him.

Again Forrest is the only fighters riding victorieS, with at least one of them being a HUGE one. Any other option could have rampage inactive 8-9 months. Rampages camp was aiming for 5 or 6.

im still in full belief that liddell vs, silva could happen with great success financially.

it could be labeled as 'ufc # do or die' .

Clutch.

Nascar and Poker ARE NOT SPORTS!!!
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^^^

Again, I have no idea what the point of this post is. You kind of just quoted everything I said, but I'm not sure you made any points.

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Seriously, i dont get why you wouldn't make such fights. Any fighter can beat any other one, i think ufc 76 furthered that, it's the nature of mma. the best fighters will win out and rise to the top.
lining them up against the best in the division.

You act like it should be all about what Wanderlei has done recently. Guess what playboy. The UFC didn't sign him based on what he's done recently. They didn't pay him big money based on the present. Ultimately, that's based on his history as one of the Top 5 LHW's in the division.

So why @#%$ around having him fight multiple times? Wouldn't make good business sense.

@#%$, if I was Dana, I might set Rampage and Wand up now and Rampage wouldn't have to wait 8 months.
TEAM AM FAM
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Again, I have no idea what the point of this post is. You kind of just quoted everything I said, but I'm not sure you made any points.


Is this whole 'no points' because you're trying to discredit me or because you're just slow?

How can you not see my point?

You basically said that if Forrest deserves a shot then Silva could get one too.

I replied by stating why Forrest does and Silva does not.

How is it hard to see the point there? Gimme a break with that 'i dont see your point' BS. You know damn well you do.


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That "best fighters" talk is false. Serra is a better fighter than GSP?
on the TUF show giving out title shots. And again the best fighters will rise to the top eventually. Upsets are the nature of the sport but GSP and Hughes will almost certainly be the ones fighting it out for the ww crown very soon.

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You REALLY think Forrest is a better fighter than Shogun when Shogun won the 1st round but gassed?


Excuses. Nothing more. Conditioning is part of being a good fighter. Who's fault is it that Shogun couldnt keep pace with Forrest? Shogun didnt just lose the fight he got choked out.

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You don't make such fights because guys like Hamil, Bisping and Houston need to develop. Have them fight some vets before you start lining them up against the best in the division.


Look back at how Joe Silva has made fights in the past and see if he has coddled any of the fighters before (and im not talking about weak fights because of a weak division).


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Guess what playboy.


the hell?



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The UFC didn't sign him based on what he's done recently. They didn't pay him big money based on the present. Ultimately, that's based on his history as one of the Top 5 LHW's in the division.

, if I was Dana, I might set Rampage and Wand up now and Rampage wouldn't have to wait 8 months.
Clutch.ARE NOT SPORTS!!!
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illphillip of this thread...

In other news...

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Awesome news for all you Brazilian jiu-jitsu enthusiasts out there. According to the Portal do Vale Tudo forums, during todays Amazon Challenge, it was announced on National TV that Ronaldo Jacare Souza is the newest addition to the UFCs middleweight division. Jacare is Portuguese for alligator. And an alligator he is indeed. For those who arent familiar with Jacare, this guy sports one of the slickest and most aggressive ground games on the planet. The man is a very accomplished grappler. Some of you might recall that Jacare participated in an exhibition grappling match against UFC Heavyweight champ, Randy the Natural Couture back in last November. Although the two men battled to a draw, Randy admitted afterwards that he spent most of the night defending against Jacare rather than being the aggressor (even though he did outweigh his opponent by quite a bit).

Jacare presently holds an MMA record of 5-1, with all of his victories coming by way of submission. If this announcement holds to be true, it would be excellent news for the UFCs Middleweight division which is in dire need of more fighters. Please check back with MMAMovement.com for the official announcement.

To all our Portuguese readers out there, you can visit the Jacare thread on the Portal do Vale Tudo forums.
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