Official NBA OFF-SEASON Thread - 2011: Free Agency Dec. 9th

[addict4sneakers]

Originally Posted by N ll K 3

You honestly think the majority of NBA players are any smarter than your average Joe Schmoe who gets his AA at a community college?

...

Being a millionaire playing a sport you love, or going to college for 10+ years and working unbelievably hard and committing your life to a practice that ball players earn in a year? It's so unbalanced it's ridiculous. Yes I'm one of those cynics that hate that players make so much damn money.

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound right now?

Because millions of people want to spend their hard earned money to witness someone perform a physical or surgery for their entertainment?

Like [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]SHWAP[/color] layed out, it comes down to simple economics.

Questioning their intelligence and lack of education like that has ANYTHING to do w/ the topic at hand?

You sound like one of those nerds who has hated on athletes since the middle school recess days.

There's a thread in General at the moment that suits you well:

http://niketalk.yuku.com/...etes?page=8#.ToaBmU-btQc

Go make yourself at home.

EDIT: B Diddy w/ the beanie.

all of this.

 

[xbiker47]

these dudes just showing up without throwing a suit on

Wade

 

[air force baller]

Originally Posted by you big dummy

Wade with Bred 13s. nice..

 

[moneylicious]

There goes the D-whistle nickname ...

 

[dipsetgeneral]

Good! Some players need to stand up and protect their occupation.

Missing any time for the season hurts every players brand.

 

[air freshh 23]

Originally Posted by Chuck Finster

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Originally Posted by DaComeUP

This is dumb as $$%!.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you, plain and simple.

This.

 

[jdiddy]

Originally Posted by MoNeyLiCiouS

There goes the D-whistle nickname ...

It's about time.  Guarantee the Heat won't win anything anytime soon.

  Stern will never let it happen now. 

 

[kingjay718]

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by CP1708

I'm done in here for a while til JA is before I get banned. I rather listen to him talk about the Mavs championship. No sympathy for players, but sympathy for billionaires who make money elsewhere then buy into the NBA and start !@%%%!% stuff up. Unbelievable.

I have sympathy for no one.

And no, I have no sympathy for players who each and everyone of them makes millions of dollars for a skill.

Sorry. Go be butthurt about it.

 

[gaseousfashion]

 

[everysingletime]

Baron Davis and Carmelo can't wear suits? Smh.

 

[big j 33]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Originally Posted by CP1708

I'm done in here for a while til JA is before I get banned. I rather listen to him talk about the Mavs championship. No sympathy for players, but sympathy for billionaires who make money elsewhere then buy into the NBA and start !@%%%!% stuff up. Unbelievable.

I have sympathy for no one.

And no, I have no sympathy for players who each and everyone of them makes millions of dollars for a skill.

Sorry. Go be butthurt about it.

It's not that you need to have sympathy for millionaire players, it's an issue of the far wealthier owners taking advantage and exploiting the players. No one should say you NEED to have sympathy for the players, but if you can't recognize the basic dynamic of a group with more money and power trying to exploit and crush the group which provides the labor and product.. then I don't know what to say. 
Then again, so far you've said "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", that you hate that athletes make so much money, you've brought up the education of these athletes when it has NO relevance in this discussion, and you have sympathy for "no one"  So it seems you care less about the discussion at hand and instead you're just jealous of dumb athletes making money and they don't know their role. Of course, if you were in their place (which you're not), I'd be shocked if you were spouting the same nonsense you're doing right now.

 

[the bad guy]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Sorry. Go be butthurt about it.

at you telling ANYONE else to be butthurt with the @+!% you've been saying in here.

Yeah you do sound like the type that N II K 3 was talking about. Probably some underlying issues we're not aware of since your stance is laughable.

Got it all @!#+%! up man.

Originally Posted by Big J 33

It's not that you need to have sympathy for millionaire players, it's an issue of the far wealthier owners taking advantage and exploiting the players. No one should say you NEED to have sympathy for the players, but if you can't recognize the basic dynamic of a group with more money and power trying to exploit and crush the group which provides the labor and product.. then I don't know what to say. 
Then again, so far you've said "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", that you hate that athletes make so much money, you've brought up the education of these athletes when it has NO relevance in this discussion, and you have sympathy for "no one"  So it seems you care less about the discussion at hand and instead you're just jealous of dumb athletes making money and they don't know their role. Of course, if you were in their place (which you're not), I'd be shocked if you were spouting the same nonsense you're doing right now.

All of this.

 

[pmatic]

Robert Sarver...what a joke.

 

[beware the underdog]

I find it hilarious that its only the fans of BIG MARKET teams that don't agree with the hard cap.
They know that hard cap = competitive league. 

 acting like they care if the players get paid or not.  


That BRON-wade warning video.

 

[everysingletime]

It just makes me mad that NBA players make more money than some top doctors and lawyers and they can't hold onto their damn money.

NBA players spend their money like lotto winners.

95 percent of all lotto winners are broke within 5 years of winning.

You guys know the reason why the last lockout ended when it did was cuz the players were running out of money, right?

I have to admit this time around playes are smarter about things though. No "I got to feed my children" and "We make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money too."

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

I find it hilarious that its only the fans of BIG MARKET teams that don't agree with the hard cap.
They know that hard cap = competitive league. 

 acting like they care if the players get paid or not.  


That BRON-wade warning video.

And now more idiotic statements from lames.

The league IS competitive you jack wagon. Memphis big market? OKC? NY and LA the two biggest markets there are, 4 teams and ONE of those teams has done something so quit spouting off about @#$% you don't know and let the grown ups talk. Not one time have I said I don't want a hard cap, revenue sharing is even fine by me to a degree, but not these sweeping changes that Sarver and Gilbert etc have been talkin about. Get a God damn clue. Quit being jealous of the Lakers and let it go already, its getting really tired dude. We want basketball, PERIOD, just like we wanted football. Stall me with this small market big market BS.

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by MoNeyLiCiouS

Valid points all around except the biting the hand that feeds you haha.

I feel exactly how Rashard Lewis feels. Its the %%@%$+# owners/gms that are giving these horrible contracts out. How are they trying to make new rules against it? Its like trying to come up with something to protect themselves FROM themselves. Smh.

No. JA and AnimalThug sounding uneducated about the situation. They jelly. 
Gladwell had a nice little rant this week: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7021031/the-nets-nba-economics

One of the great forgotten facts about the United States is that not very long ago the wealthy weren't all that wealthy. Up until the 1960s, the gap between rich and poor in the United States was relatively narrow. In fact, in that era marginal tax rates in the highest income bracket were in excess of 90 percent. For every dollar you made above $250,000, you gave the government 90 cents. Today — with good reason — we regard tax rates that high as punitive and economically self-defeating. It is worth noting, though, that in the social and political commentary of the 1950s and 1960s there is scant evidence of wealthy people complaining about their situation. They paid their taxes and went about their business. Perhaps they saw the logic of the government's policy: There was a huge debt from World War II to be paid off, and interstates, public universities, and other public infrastructure projects to be built for the children of the baby boom. Or perhaps they were simply bashful. Wealth, after all, is as often the gift of good fortune as it is of design. For whatever reason, the wealthy of that era could have pushed for a world that more closely conformed to their self-interest and they chose not to. Today the wealthy have no such qualms. We have moved from a country of relative economic equality to a place where the gap between rich and poor is exceeded by only Singapore and Hong Kong. The rich have gone from being grateful for what they have to pushing for everything they can get. They have mastered the arts of whining and predation, without regard to logic or shame. In the end, this is the lesson of the NBA lockout. A man buys a basketball team as insurance on a real estate project, flips the franchise to a Russian billionaire when he wins the deal, and then — as both parties happily count their winnings — what lesson are we asked to draw? The players are greedy.

 

[lbj23navo]

KD 

 

[japanair21]

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Originally Posted by CP1708

I'm done in here for a while til JA is before I get banned. I rather listen to him talk about the Mavs championship. No sympathy for players, but sympathy for billionaires who make money elsewhere then buy into the NBA and start !@%%%!% stuff up. Unbelievable.

I have sympathy for no one.

And no, I have no sympathy for players who each and everyone of them makes millions of dollars for a skill.

Sorry. Go be butthurt about it.

It's not that you need to have sympathy for millionaire players, it's an issue of the far wealthier owners taking advantage and exploiting the players. No one should say you NEED to have sympathy for the players, but if you can't recognize the basic dynamic of a group with more money and power trying to exploit and crush the group which provides the labor and product.. then I don't know what to say. 
Then again, so far you've said "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", that you hate that athletes make so much money, you've brought up the education of these athletes when it has NO relevance in this discussion, and you have sympathy for "no one"  So it seems you care less about the discussion at hand and instead you're just jealous of dumb athletes making money and they don't know their role. Of course, if you were in their place (which you're not), I'd be shocked if you were spouting the same nonsense you're doing right now.

Exploiting the players how? Taking away a bunch of their money? Each player in the NBA still going to be making over a million dollars a year.

Of course they have more money and power, they are your employer.

What no one is taking into consideration is that when players sign a contract, they are signing that contract to fit the CBA. This past CBA is over, time for a new one. Owners give the players the CAPACITY to put on a show. You really think these little summer-league pick-up games could ever[/i amount to anything resembling the NBA in terms of marketability? They're running in small gyms, not hundred-million dollar arenas.

I have no sympathy for anyone, correct. It's a bunch of have's arguing over more money. I don't really care about the money in this regard. I think it's sad that so much money is spent on players and their exuberant mansions and lifestyles when the money as a whole could be used more properly. Same could be said for the owners of the NBA.

It's not that I'm jealous of dumb athletes, it's more a statement on the world of capitalism we live in, but that's a whole different argument.

If I have a brand, a company, a franchise, and it's losing me money, I want change. Simple as that. The players will be making money regardless, but if EVERY team isn't profiting at the end of the year, that's an issue in my eyes. That's why I'm so stiff on the players.

Again, how are they taking advantage of the players? The CBA is up, the owners could sit on their hands for the next two seasons and watch the players scramble to find money, while the owners will be just fine. They'll lose a lot of casual fans, but they will recover eventually. Don't like it? That's the business. Get BRI, revenue sharing, contract paycuts, whatever needs to be done. Yes, the owners are far wealthier, and it's THEIR league. If you don't want to fit the bill, go play in Europe for a percentage of their contract here and move away from all your family and friends. I don't get how so many people get upset at owners (and David Stern) because we haven't had any basketball, and may not for a while. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. The players aren't being treated unfairly. That's why there's a CBA, but that CBA is gone, all bets are off, all teams aren't profiting, owners want change.

You can say the league is competitive, but when you have loopholes in the system that allow guys like Ron Artest to sign a pretty good contract to a team that's heavily over the cap, I can't say that's necessarily fair to smaller market teams who could really use the help of someone of that caliber that could be had. Yes there are glaring exceptions in that teams that spent like crazy never won, but I'd prefer a league where the salary cap wasn't so flexible.

Of course I care about the discussion. The discussion is about the players versus the owners, which I have sympathy for neither, but that doesn't mean I don't care about the issue at hand. I'm sorry but when I see Paul Pierce there to represent the players, it's not a good look. You think he's a fairly intelligent guy? I don't.

I bring up their intelligence because who is it that is fighting for this deal? That's doing the bargaining? That's out in the public? The players and the owners. The owners have a much better idea about the economics of what's going on. Much more intelligent on top of being far wealthier. I just can't back guys like Paul Pierce and Kris Humphries who obviously has peanuts in their skulls. Derek Fisher? Mo Evans? Fine. Carmelo? Wade? Bron? Okay.. But they are going up against guys who built empires of wealth. I don't EXPECT the players to have any kind of leverage. The players got a grand deal last time in the CBA, cats like Antoine Walker and Steve Francis making hundred-million dollar contracts. Blame the owners? You could, that's the easy way out, but I'd rather them restructure the CBA where it's hard to sign so many guys like that.

As far as the BRI goes, the players benefit because do they have any investments in TV contracts? Ticket sales? Stadium upkeep? Concession/Parking? Advertising? Marketing and promotions in general? Owners are spending more on the game, players are getting more money basically over the past decade, but teams are losing money.

The balance comes in revenue sharing and getting a fair number for the BRI. It's not fair to lower the BRI? But how much of the players own money do they put into advertising and marketing? While they reap the rewards of selling out a stadium?

Average player salary last year was over 5 million. No players are losing money. NBA is losing hundreds of millions of dollars each year on the whole. They want to fix that.

You can keep talking about how much money the owners have, but in the end, if you're losing money, then what the hell? What's so hard to understand about the owners wanting significant change?

Like I said, what would you do differently? Yall really need to stop talking about how much the players provide the product and act like they can survive without the NBA.

LeBron, Wade, and all those cats going to be cool selling out little gyms of a couple hundred, with lax security and minuscule pay? For how long?

 

[airjordan jb23]

at that Wade & LeBron vid.

Wade with the XIII's

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

Originally Posted by Big J 33

Originally Posted by JapanAir21

I have sympathy for no one.

And no, I have no sympathy for players who each and everyone of them makes millions of dollars for a skill.

Sorry. Go be butthurt about it.

It's not that you need to have sympathy for millionaire players, it's an issue of the far wealthier owners taking advantage and exploiting the players. No one should say you NEED to have sympathy for the players, but if you can't recognize the basic dynamic of a group with more money and power trying to exploit and crush the group which provides the labor and product.. then I don't know what to say. 
Then again, so far you've said "Don't bite the hand that feeds you", that you hate that athletes make so much money, you've brought up the education of these athletes when it has NO relevance in this discussion, and you have sympathy for "no one"  So it seems you care less about the discussion at hand and instead you're just jealous of dumb athletes making money and they don't know their role. Of course, if you were in their place (which you're not), I'd be shocked if you were spouting the same nonsense you're doing right now.

Exploiting the players how? Taking away a bunch of their money? Each player in the NBA still going to be making over a million dollars a year.

Of course they have more money and power, they are your employer.

What no one is taking into consideration is that when players sign a contract, they are signing that contract to fit the CBA. This past CBA is over, time for a new one. Owners give the players the CAPACITY to put on a show. You really think these little summer-league pick-up games could ever[/i amount to anything resembling the NBA in terms of marketability? They're running in small gyms, not hundred-million dollar arenas.

I have no sympathy for anyone, correct. It's a bunch of have's arguing over more money. I don't really care about the money in this regard. I think it's sad that so much money is spent on players and their exuberant mansions and lifestyles when the money as a whole could be used more properly. Same could be said for the owners of the NBA.

It's not that I'm jealous of dumb athletes, it's more a statement on the world of capitalism we live in, but that's a whole different argument.

If I have a brand, a company, a franchise, and it's losing me money, I want change. Simple as that. The players will be making money regardless, but if EVERY team isn't profiting at the end of the year, that's an issue in my eyes. That's why I'm so stiff on the players.

Again, how are they taking advantage of the players? The CBA is up, the owners could sit on their hands for the next two seasons and watch the players scramble to find money, while the owners will be just fine. They'll lose a lot of casual fans, but they will recover eventually. Don't like it? That's the business. Get BRI, revenue sharing, contract paycuts, whatever needs to be done. Yes, the owners are far wealthier, and it's THEIR league. If you don't want to fit the bill, go play in Europe for a percentage of their contract here and move away from all your family and friends. I don't get how so many people get upset at owners (and David Stern) because we haven't had any basketball, and may not for a while. It's a business. It's a business. It's a business. The players aren't being treated unfairly. That's why there's a CBA, but that CBA is gone, all bets are off, all teams aren't profiting, owners want change.

You can say the league is competitive, but when you have loopholes in the system that allow guys like Ron Artest to sign a pretty good contract to a team that's heavily over the cap, I can't say that's necessarily fair to smaller market teams who could really use the help of someone of that caliber that could be had. Yes there are glaring exceptions in that teams that spent like crazy never won, but I'd prefer a league where the salary cap wasn't so flexible.

Of course I care about the discussion. The discussion is about the players versus the owners, which I have sympathy for neither, but that doesn't mean I don't care about the issue at hand. I'm sorry but when I see Paul Pierce there to represent the players, it's not a good look. You think he's a fairly intelligent guy? I don't.

I bring up their intelligence because who is it that is fighting for this deal? That's doing the bargaining? That's out in the public? The players and the owners. The owners have a much better idea about the economics of what's going on. Much more intelligent on top of being far wealthier. I just can't back guys like Paul Pierce and Kris Humphries who obviously has peanuts in their skulls. Derek Fisher? Mo Evans? Fine. Carmelo? Wade? Bron? Okay.. But they are going up against guys who built empires of wealth. I don't EXPECT the players to have any kind of leverage. The players got a grand deal last time in the CBA, cats like Antoine Walker and Steve Francis making hundred-million dollar contracts. Blame the owners? You could, that's the easy way out, but I'd rather them restructure the CBA where it's hard to sign so many guys like that.

As far as the BRI goes, the players benefit because do they have any investments in TV contracts? Ticket sales? Stadium upkeep? Concession/Parking? Advertising? Marketing and promotions in general? Owners are spending more on the game, players are getting more money basically over the past decade, but teams are losing money.

The balance comes in revenue sharing and getting a fair number for the BRI. It's not fair to lower the BRI? But how much of the players own money do they put into advertising and marketing? While they reap the rewards of selling out a stadium?

Average player salary last year was over 5 million. No players are losing money. NBA is losing hundreds of millions of dollars each year on the whole. They want to fix that.

You can keep talking about how much money the owners have, but in the end, if you're losing money, then what the hell? What's so hard to understand about the owners wanting significant change?

Like I said, what would you do differently? Yall really need to stop talking about how much the players provide the product and act like they can survive without the NBA.

LeBron, Wade, and all those cats going to be cool selling out little gyms of a couple hundred, with lax security and minuscule pay? For how long?

Since when are the players doing the negotiating? That's Billy Hunter's job. The players are there as an act of union solidarity to back Hunter and Fisher.

 

[japanair21]

Hunter and Fisher do the negotiating, yes, but you act like both of them don't want approval from the rest of the lames who show up to the meetings in hoodies and dress shrits.

 

[koolbarbone]

Yes, they want the approval of those players, but I don't see how their attire has any bearing on the union representative-union member relationship.

I'd love to hear your reasoning though.

 

[japanair21]

If you're going to a negotiation where it's a multi-billion dollar industry, do you want some of your player representatives present dressing like Paul Pierce or Baron Davis would?

It's moreso a message of...

Representing the players that bothers me.

And instead of nitpicking a minor detail like you usually do, why don't you dig into what I was really trying to say?