***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[mplsdunk]

It’s crazy people don’t know Henry ford was a big nazi guy.

Dude sucked all around. His only redeeming quality was he wanted his workers to eat enough to afford the cars they made.

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[biggie62]

This sounds like it’ll be epic.

 

[yobyellav]

There's no way people can objectively say Trump is sharper than this man. Trump wouldn't have remembered anything said from any 25 second video and his response would've included polling numbers and a stolen election.

 

[IATT]

 

[mplsdunk]

or make it so people can afford kids...

 

[gry60]

Swing-state Muslim leaders launch campaign to ‘abandon’ Biden in 2024

The bubbling anger among Arab and Muslim Americans over the president’s handling of the Israel-Hamas conflict could threaten his chances of reelection.

www.politico.com

Organizers from Michigan, Minnesota, Arizona, Wisconsin, Florida, Georgia, Nevada and Pennsylvania are calling the campaign #AbandonBiden, vowing to ensure that Biden is a one-term president. These leaders have run separate pressure campaigns in their respective states, members of the coalition said, but they felt now was the time to coordinate their response ahead of the 2024 election.


“We’re looking into finding ways to build a mechanism of coordination between all the swing states so that we’re constantly working together to ensure that Muslim Americans will come out in all of these states, and that Mr. Biden will lose each and every one of them,” said Hassan Abdel Salam, a professor at the University of Minnesota and a member of the #AbandonBiden National Coalition during a press conference Saturday. “Right behind me, what Mr. Biden should see is 111 electoral votes. And he won last time with 74.”

 

[RustyShackleford]

Swing-state Muslim leaders launch campaign to ‘abandon’ Biden in 2024

The bubbling anger among Arab and Muslim Americans over the president’s handling of the Israel-Hamas conflict could threaten his chances of reelection.

www.politico.com

Unserious political actors

Like I said from the jump

People have the right to their anger. But they don't have the right for others to entertain their stupid hot takes.

In practice they are trying to help Trump win.

 

[had pants]

 

[gry60]

In practice they are trying to help Trump win.

I know.

And if he wins, they're gonna have a terrible time.

Trump vows to end birthright citizenship for children of immigrants in US illegally

Donald Trump said on Tuesday that if elected president again in 2024 he would seek to end automatic citizenship for children born in the United States to immigrants in the country illegally, a plan that contradicts how a 19th century amendment to the U.S. Constitution long has been interpreted.

www.reuters.com

Trump vows to expand Muslim ban and bar Gaza refugees if he wins presidency

Former president in speech in Iowa says he would immediately begin ‘ideological screening’ for all immigrants

www.theguardian.com

 

[mplsdunk]

Trump can’t end birthright citizenship.

 

[dmbrhs]

Trump can’t end birthright citizenship.

It's literally in the constitution. Good luck getting 2/3rds of the states to sign off on a new amendment repealing that one.

 

[rexanglorum]

Unserious political actors

Like I said from the jump

People have the right to their anger. But they don't have the right for others to entertain their stupid hot takes.

In practice they are trying to help Trump win.

Does Joe Biden play a role in helping to get Joe Biden elected. Most Muslims are acutely aware of the dangers of Donald Trump. And even so, they are willing to risk his re-election.

They, nevertheless, survived one Trump term and in all likelihood, they’ll survive another. By contrast, Joe Biden’s approach to Israel has presented a far greater and far more clear and present threat to the literal survival of Palestinians is than what Donald Trump has done.

Telling Israel to minimize casualties in their hunt for Hamas is clearly not working since Israel considers every Palestinian man, woman, and child to be Hamas, Hamas supporters, or future members of Hamas.

The US has tremendous leverage over Israel and thus far, it had not been used.

If a president is or is seen to be aiding and abetting an active genocide and he provides cover for the country doing genocide against your own ethnicity and in many cases, your own family members. It’s really hard to change their minds by telling them that the other guy would probably be worse.

I think that most voting blocs who try to move Biden left by threatening to vote against him, are being foolish, in whole or in part. But, IMO, this situation is exceptional and Biden bears all the blame here.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Does Joe Biden play a role in helping to get Joe Biden elected. Most Muslims are acutely aware of the dangers of Donald Trump. And even so, they are willing to risk his re-election.

They, nevertheless, survived one Trump term and in all likelihood, they’ll survive another. By contrast, Joe Biden’s approach to Israel has presented a far greater and far more clear and present threat to the literal survival of Palestinians is than what Donald Trump has done.

Telling Israel to minimize casualties in their hunt for Hamas is clearly not working since Israel considers every Palestinian man, woman, and child to be Hamas, Hamas supporters, or future members of Hamas.

The US has tremendous leverage over Israel and thus far, it had not been used.

If a president is or is seen to be aiding and abetting an active genocide and he provides cover for the country doing genocide against your own ethnicity and in many cases, your own family members. It’s really hard to change their minds by telling them that the other guy would probably be worse.

I think that most voting blocs who try to move Biden left by threatening to vote against him, are being foolish, in whole or in part. But, IMO, this situation is exceptional and Biden bears all the blame here.

There is a difference from between a Muslim voter who is mad at Biden, and can't bring themselves to vote for Joe Biden, and someone that is trying to organize a multi-state political movement in hopes of guaranteeing a Biden lost.

Conflating the two is an act of bad faith

Tons of other left-wing people are mad at Joe Biden for tons of reasons, but don't turn to actively trying to sink his campaign like this.

I don't see why I should be okay with this type of political buffoonery when I am not okay with it from any other person on the left.

Second, this is bait and switch. You have a policy preference and you are using a political strategy argument to bolster it. The Muslim voter is deemed so important because of the high population in swing states. If you swap the geographical locations of American Jews, and Arab Muslims in America, I doubt you would support Jewish Americans saying do want we want or else we will work to make sure Biden loses.

Helping Trump win will not be a negative positive or neutral for Muslims. It would not be a for millions of Americans.

I don't see why "we'll survive" should give anyone any comfort, especially with so many people who could be hurt by Trump. Should I tell my mother, who has tons of health issues" who will probably lose health coverage if Trump gets a trifecta that "she will survive"? Or should I tell her to blame Biden when her next medical issue comes?

So what happens if the 2028 nominee is progressive and wants to take a hard line on Israel? But some other member of the Democratic coalition wants to guarantee their defeat. Are you gonna be okay to defend them?

If this is your argument, then you and everyone who agrees and defends this should have zero issues with No Labels playing a game of electoral chicken with the Democrats to make the party more conservative and should apologize to people like osh kosh bosh when they objected to him saying that the Dems should organize around winning conservative white voters on the margin. Because their voters hold more political power.

Again, people can be mad at Biden. People can make a personal choice not to vote. But the real-life consequences of what is being discussed in the article are tons of people being hurt by Trump.

Biden is old and rich. Besides losing the Presidency, in material terms, he will face minimal blowback from a Trump presidency.

Some people want millions of others to pay the price for them to get revenge on Biden, through electoral politics, for some poor policy choices.

And I'm supposed to not see how dumb, dangerous, and counterproductive that is?

**** that.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

.

Does Joe Biden play a role in helping to get Joe Biden elected. Most Muslims are acutely aware of the dangers of Donald Trump. And even so, they are willing to risk his re-election.

They, nevertheless, survived one Trump term and in all likelihood, they’ll survive another. By contrast, Joe Biden’s approach to Israel has presented a far greater and far more clear and present threat to the literal survival of Palestinians is than what Donald Trump has done.

Telling Israel to minimize casualties in their hunt for Hamas is clearly not working since Israel considers every Palestinian man, woman, and child to be Hamas, Hamas supporters, or future members of Hamas.

The US has tremendous leverage over Israel and thus far, it had not been used.

If a president is or is seen to be aiding and abetting an active genocide and he provides cover for the country doing genocide against your own ethnicity and in many cases, your own family members. It’s really hard to change their minds by telling them that the other guy would probably be worse.

I think that most voting blocs who try to move Biden left by threatening to vote against him, are being foolish, in whole or in part. But, IMO, this situation is exceptional and Biden bears all the blame here.

It's stuff like this that makes me think leftist love losing. I swear they do.

Also this;

By contrast, Joe Biden’s approach to Israel has presented a far greater and far more clear and present threat to the literal survival of Palestinians is than what Donald Trump has done.

Is an insane take.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

At this point

I really believe that there is a large faction of the left that hates the democratic party more than they care about any policy.

And they have been waiting and waiting for an issue that would give them plausible deniability to knee cap Biden and split the democratic coalition.

The way certain media figures talk about Israel-Palestine.

It feels indistinguishable from a person deliberately trying to destroy the democratic party.

 

[mplsdunk]

It’s good to keep pressure on Biden.

He was talking crazy a few weeks ago, now he’s talking about ceasefires.

If people didn’t say anything he’d be fine with Israel wiping them off the map with our money.

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’s good to keep pressure on Biden.

They are working to guarantee he loses

This isn't about "pressure"

 

[mplsdunk]

They are working to guarantee he loses

This isn't about "pressure"

I don’t agree with them, but I don’t see how I could make Biden act worse on the topic.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

It’s good to keep pressure on Biden.

For those unaware, let me translate this;

It's good to [split the dem coalition in pursuit of unclear/impossible policy goals and ensure Biden loses]

There is no "pressure" because there are no realistic policy goals

other than hurting Biden and the democratic party.

 

[mplsdunk]

Do you think every Muslim has to sit out the election because some people told them to? What a stupid thing to say.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

He was talking crazy a few weeks ago, now he’s talking about ceasefires.

If people didn’t say anything he’d be fine with Israel wiping them off the map with our money.

more insane takes.
no Biden is not okay "with Israel wiping them off the map"

 

[RustyShackleford]

It’s good to keep pressure on Biden.

He was talking crazy a few weeks ago, now he’s talking about ceasefires.

Multiple outlets have reported that he cautioned Israel on restraint from the jump.

Bibi simply didn't listen

If people didn’t say anything he’d be fine with Israel wiping them off the map with our money.

Israel doesn't need our money to do what they did

The bulk of the money they have coming their way hasn't even been approved yet.


Telling yourself conveint lies to justify counterproductive politics helps no one. Not even the people you claim you have the best interest of.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

ya I used to say to myself, nah this is just way too online people saying dumb stuff.

but more and more in real life I encounter people who clearly have Instagram meme politics.

Israel-Palestine is the zenith of it.
insane sensationalist talking points, that fall apart under any questioning. clearly pulled from a tiktok or IG story.

maybe working in the arts, I just encounter the most extreme end of leftism IRL.
but ive heard the wildest ****.

 

[RustyShackleford]

There is a ton of legitimate criticism to make of Israel's government and Biden's actions.

There are a lot of legitimate reasons to be mad

But a lot of people are standing 10 toes down on arguments and actions they clearly have not thought deeply about.

And bad actors are flourishing in these conditions