***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

What evidence do you have that someone besides her would be a better option?

Well
- her low favorables.
- Her tie to an unpopular administration.
- Her poor 2020 campaign.
- Her relatively weak performance with black voters in the primary.
- Mayor Pete polls well doesn't have as much baggage.
- big gretch is from a swing state

Ect now RustyShackleford made a compelling case against some of these points.

But he didn't just say"well I'm black so trust me"

If you think Harris is the move make the case, but I'm not dismissing other candidates just because one black guy says I should.

Our evidence is years upon years of being Black in America There would be endless articles and think-pieces about how a legitimately more qualified Black woman was skipped over for a white man. Will most Black women still vote Dem? Sure, but I would be every dollar I have there are gonna be a lot more who say "**** it" and sit out.

Again you experience is not worth nothing. But the same type of analysis led people to believe that Kamala Harris would beat Joe Biden with black voters in the 2020 primary, and that didn't happen.

Black people are not a monolith so I'm sorry it's hard for me to trust the experience of one black guy without other supporting evidence.

 

[letsgetit22]

What evidence do you have that someone besides her would be a better option?

Our evidence is years upon years of being Black in America There would be endless articles and think-pieces about how a legitimately more qualified Black woman was skipped over for a white man. Will most Black women still vote Dem? Sure, but I would bet every dollar I have there are gonna be a lot more who say "**** it" and sit out.

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Lmao!

Well
- her low favorables.
- Her tie to an unpopular administration.
- Her poor 2020 campaign.
- Her relatively weak performance with black voters in the primary.
- Mayor Pete polls well doesn't have as much baggage.
- big gretch is from a swing state

Ect now RustyShackleford made a compelling case against some of these points.

But he didn't just say"well I'm black so trust me"

If you think Harris is the move make the case, but I'm not dismissing other candidates just because one black guy says I should.




Again you experience is not worth nothing. But the same type of analysis led people to believe that Kamala Harris would beat Joe Biden with black voters in the 2020 primary, and that didn't happen.

Black people are not a monolith so I'm sorry it's hard for me to trust the experience of one black guy without other supporting evidence.

Black people are not a monolith. But when you've been Black in America and constantly deal with people being given opportunity over you no matter how qualified you are, it triggers a feeling when you see it done to other Black people. So I am comfortable in saying that if the party passes on Kamala eventhough she is literally second in line, Black folks are not going to turn out for dems.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

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Lmao!

Black people are not a monolith. But when you've been Black in America and constantly deal with people being given opportunity over you no matter how qualified you are, it triggers a feeling when you see it done to other Black people. So I am comfortable in saying that if the party passes on Kamala eventhough she is literally second in line, Black folks are not going to turn out for dems.

That's cool or whatever.

Personally I'll need more evidence than that to dismiss all the other options.

But maybe that's just me.

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Well
- her low favorables.
- Her tie to an unpopular administration.
- Her poor 2020 campaign.
- Her relatively weak performance with black voters in the primary.
- Mayor Pete polls well doesn't have as much baggage.
- big gretch is from a swing state

Ect now RustyShackleford made a compelling case against some of these points.

But he didn't just say"well I'm black so trust me"

If you think Harris is the move make the case, but I'm not dismissing other candidates just because one black guy says I should.


Again you experience is not worth nothing. But the same type of analysis led people to believe that Kamala Harris would beat Joe Biden with black voters in the 2020 primary, and that didn't happen.

Black people are not a monolith so I'm sorry it's hard for me to trust the experience of one black guy without other supporting evidence.

And yet despite all of the bolded points, she's polling better than the two people you mentioned, not just overall, but with Women, independents and "People of color" (their term not mine). Here's the link: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24787646/cnn-poll.pdf

I don't need you, of all got damn ppl, to tell me Black people aren't a monolith, I know that. I'm not sure what evidence or analysis you're going to find because I don't think any poll is gonna straight up ask "if a white person is picked over Kamala, are you gonna be mad?"

 

[letsgetit22]

That's cool or whatever.

Personally I'll need more evidence than that to dismiss all the other options.

But maybe that's just me.

Are you a Black person that grew up in America? If not, your opinion really don't matter on this subject. Lol
Using the fact that Black people supported Biden more than Kamala in the primaries is not relevant. He was more qualified and was endorsed by Obama. Now that Kamala is the most qualified, Black people are not going to vote for a white woman or white man over her. We will see it as a slap in the face

 

[osh kosh bosh]

And yet despite all of the bolded points, she's polling better than the two people you mentioned, Overall, and with Women, independents and "People of color" (their term not mine). Here's the link: https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/24787646/cnn-poll.pdf

Can you help me out and point me to the page you're talking about I skimmed through the doc and I see that Kamala has higher unfavourables and higher name Id than the alternatives but Im not seeing the part that she's polling better.

I don't need you, of all got damn ppl, to tell me Black people aren't a monolith, I know that. I'm not sure what evidence or analysis you're going to find because I don't think any poll is gonna straight up ask "if a white person is picked over Kamala, are you gonna be mad?"

We don't need to know if they will be mad, we need to know if they will vote and that seems pretty easy to poll.

If not essentially what you are saying is no evidence can exist for your argument other than "trust me bro I'm black"

Again the same type.of arguments were made about Kamala's 2020 campaign. They were wrong then.

Why should I trust this style of argument now? How do I know your thoughts are representative of the median black voter?

 

[Rootin4EverybodyBlack]

Harris vs. Trump is on Page 74, Pete on 76, and Whitmer on 77.

You're intentionally being obtuse though so I ain't finna keep going back and forth with you.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Are you a Black person that grew up in America? If not, your opinion really don't matter on this subject. Lol
Using the fact that Black people supported Biden more than Kamala in the primaries is not relevant. He was more qualified and was endorsed by Obama. Now that Kamala is the most qualified, Black people are not going to vote for a white woman or white man over her. We will see it as a slap in the face

1. I'm not asking you to trust my opinion.

2. It's not the fact that black people supported Biden it's the fact that there were black pundits in the political class seemed confident Kamala would do well with black voters and better than Biden. And that didn't happen.

So that leaves me with a dilemma. When am I supposed to trust black opinion and when do I ignore it? Which black opinion do I trust, which do I ignore?

We've seen this happen time and time again, activist groups that claim to represent the opinions of a minority group but it turns out they actually don't.

So forgive me if I don't just take your word for it. Without some supporting evidence.

 

[Wargames]

To all you “he’s too old” sycophants. Point at one policy where Biden’s mental capacity led to an issue? Show me where him being old led to him making the wrong decision on a duty of the president.

Meanwhile the other guy **** the bed as president so much he ruined the economy and was deny Covid was dangerous until he got it himself.

 

[1995]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

To all you “he’s too old” sycophants. Point at one policy where Biden’s mental capacity led to an issue? Show me where him being old led to him making the wrong decision on a duty of the president.

Meanwhile the other guy **** the bed as president so much he ruined the economy and was deny Covid was dangerous until he got it himself.

It's not about policy, it's about being able to run a campaign and sell your accomplishments.

 

[Wargames]

How do you know it's conceding defeat?

People keep making confident proclamations about a low sample size event.

There actually haven't that many presidential campaigns.
.
To say we know with certainty a novel action will sink your campaign I think is beyond the limits of our knowledge.

Bro you’re gaslighting here.

 

[Wargames]

It's not about policy, it's about being able to run a campaign and sell your accomplishments.

Bro answer my question. Give me evidence his age affected his ability to be president?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Harris vs. Trump is on Page 74, Pete on 76, and Whitmer on 77.

You're intentionally being obtuse though so I ain't finna keep going back and forth with you.

I'm intentionally being anything.

You could have led.with polling evidence. And we could avoided all this back and forth.

Instead you went with the "trust me I'm black argument" which I don't trust you, and I don't even know if you represent black opinion.

Next time lead with the actual evidence .

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Bro answer my question. Give me evidence his age affected his ability to be president?

It's a silly question. I love Joe Biden. I think he's been a great president.

Tbh I think like him more than just about anyone in this thread.

I even support 90% of his foreign policy and think people are way too hard on him on that.

Your asking the wrong guy I think he's been a great president. I think if he could win he'd be great for another 4 years.

The problem is winning. He's losing. And he's not capable of waging a campaign to convince voters to reelect him. That's the "age" problem.

It's not his performance as president. It's his performance as a campaigner.

 

[letsgetit22]

1. I'm not asking you to trust my opinion.

2. It's not the fact that black people supported Biden it's the fact that there were black pundits in the political class seemed confident Kamala would do well with black voters and better than Biden. And that didn't happen.

So that leaves me with a dilemma. When am I supposed to trust black opinion and when do I ignore it? Which black opinion do I trust, which do I ignore?

We've seen this happen time and time again, activist groups that claim to represent the opinions of a minority group but it turns out they actually don't.

So forgive me if I don't just take your word for it. Without some supporting evidence.

Which Black pundits made this claim? Black people wanted Biden to run in 2016. I don't believe your claim that a significant amount of black pundits in 2020 said that Black people were going to significantly vote for Kamala over Biden. Can you provide this evidence? I will like to see which pundits it was.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Which Black pundits made this claim? Black people wanted Biden to run in 2016. I don't believe your claim that a significant amount of black pundits in 2020 said that Black people were going to significantly vote for Kamala over Biden. Can you provide this evidence? I will like to see which pundits it was.

2020 Jamelle Bouie was pretty supportive of Kamala, had the 2020 primary as being between Kamala or Biden with everything else being "fanfic" this wasn't true.

Bakari Sellers had Kamala as the strongest candidate and endorsed her.
Rolland martin though she was uniquely positioned to use HBCU network to win south carolina.

especially after the first debate many pundits thought Kamala essentially killed Joe and exposed a weakness on race.

im not saying any of these were unreasonable takes at the time.

obviously personal experience can be a useful guide, but I don't think it's enough to dismiss all other options given how perilous the situation is currently.

if you want to say "hey black voters might not look at that too kindly and something that should be considered if you select a white candidate".
fine. that makes sense.

but saying "you CAN'T consider anyone else BUT Kamala because I KNOW how black people will NEVER vote for them."

that's a way stronger claim that requires more evidence.
"trust me im black" isn't enough, given that there are black people who disagree. who do i listen to?

 

[IATT]

To all you “he’s too old” sycophants. Point at one policy where Biden’s mental capacity led to an issue? Show me where him being old led to him making the wrong decision on a duty of the president.

Meanwhile the other guy **** the bed as president so much he ruined the economy and was deny Covid was dangerous until he got it himself.

The other guy called for people to inject themselves with bleach

And for the nuking of hurricanes

Plus his weird obsession with tariffs

 

[Public Enemy]

 

[Public Enemy]

 

[Public Enemy]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

 

[uncalled4boy]

It’s Insane To Even Be Having A Discussion About Anyone Being A Better Candidate For President Than The VP.

And Using Polls As A Justification After The Last Few Election Cycles Is Crazy.

Just Hit The Polls In November And Do Your Part.

 

[putting in work]

Feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

I stand behind Biden 100% for how he got the country back on track and all the good policies and things he's done.

Trump is just a POS and did the worst job possible when he was president.

The media is blowing up the debate more than needed and if it was the other way around they would just brush it off and just move onto the next thing.

For all the bad Trump has, does, and will do it always gets brushed under the rug whereas if Biden sneezes they blow it out of proportion.

I don't see how people don't see this and I just think of the media. All those conservative media companies and the individuals behind them

 

[letsgetit22]

2020 Jamelle Bouie was pretty supportive of Kamala, had the 2020 primary as being between Kamala or Biden with everything else being "fanfic" this wasn't true.

Bakari Sellers had Kamala as the strongest candidate and endorsed her.
Rolland martin though she was uniquely positioned to use HBCU network to win south carolina.

especially after the first debate many pundits thought Kamala essentially killed Joe and exposed a weakness on race.

im not saying any of these were unreasonable takes at the time.

obviously personal experience can be a useful guide, but I don't think it's enough to dismiss all other options given how perilous the situation is currently.

if you want to say "hey black voters might not look at that too kindly and something that should be considered if you select a white candidate".
fine. that makes sense.

but saying "you CAN'T consider anyone else BUT Kamala because I KNOW how black people will NEVER vote for them."

that's a way stronger claim that requires more evidence.
"trust me im black" isn't enough, given that there are black people who disagree. who do i listen to?

How does any of what you posted suggest that those pundits believed that she would win the Black vote over Biden?