***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[heelsandeers]

Democratic brand is non viable in so many states.

It's non viable in rural areas.

This may just be a Trump phenomenon, but if it isn't, what is the solution?

Leftist keep telling me create more left wing government programs.

But I'm skeptical.

Not a Trump phenomenon. Dems will never win in certain parts of the country again in our lifetimes

Going all in on NC and GA has to be the future, though it doesn't solve the problem in the Senate

As for the House well... time for Dems to play hard ball in the states they do control courts and legislatures

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Not a Trump phenomenon. Dems will never win in certain parts of the country again in our lifetimes

Going all in on NC and GA has to be the future, though it doesn't solve the problem in the Senate

As for the House well... time for Dems to play hard ball in the states they do control courts and legislatures

this is all fine and dandy , but every year democrats keep losing more black and latino votes.

how exactly can NC and GA be the future. If the Dem message seems to be turning those people away.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Since 2016 every year voters say the trust republicans more to handle the economy.

is the answer to this more left wing programs?
Child Tax Credit happened. voters didn't seem to care that much.



I think the question needs to be asked,

is america just a fundamentally more individualist culture? and programs that go beyond the basics like health care, social security...

are just never going to be THAT popular?

 

[Armada]

I think answer is just do more left wing programs because people don’t really complain about left wing programs and policies when they actually in action and working. To me it just seems like people have a problem with how it’s told to them and the reasons why.

Do it and just when explaining just say it’s about keeping prices down, economy, health care etc etc the basic stuff everyone understands. Stay on that message keep it simple and don’t let the convo get dragged into the details.


The only flaw I worry about this tho is so many people have been conditioned to demand more explanation from the left where they will just accept any old thing from the right about how **** will get done. That double standard is real and has to be navigated.

 

[heelsandeers]

this is all fine and dandy , but every year democrats keep losing more black and latino votes.

how exactly can NC and GA be the future. If the Dem message seems to be turning those people away.

These are states that have only recently been in play for Dems

They already closed a lot of the gaps there. I mean Obama was beaten worse in GA (twice) than Kamala was

Of course better messaging is the answer. Dems haven't had in a while and it was a particular weakness of the Biden admin

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I think answer is just do more left wing programs because people don’t really complain about left wing programs and policies when they actually in action and working. To me it just seems like people have a problem with how it’s told to them and the reasons why.

explain the child tax credit then,

it was implemented. nobody cared.
it was expiring, nobody cared.

 

[Armada]

explain the child tax credit then,

it was implemented. nobody cared.
it was expiring, nobody cared.

They didn’t care cause they don’t like the people that did it and how they feel like they talk to them. They will use it it’ll help them but they not gonna give any thanks about if it they don’t vibe with who did it.


And they don’t really actually care about policy that’s why I’m saying you can do it people will be helped by it and you don’t even have to explain it as long as you stay on message about the 3 things people seem to make all they decisions off of

 

[osh kosh bosh]

don't get me wrong the child tax credit is good policy.
im not saying dem shouldn't try to do those policies.


but SOMETHING is not connecting.

maybe its that there is too many programs being pitched and they need to focus on messaging on a smaller set of things

or maybe its that people don't actually care that much.



but I just see people listing out more left wing initiatives the dems should support and that just seems like lazy thinking to me.

 

[Beans]

I think answer is just do more left wing programs because people don’t really complain about left wing programs and policies when they actually in action and working. To me it just seems like people have a problem with how it’s told to them and the reasons why.

Do it and just when explaining just say it’s about keeping prices down, economy, health care etc etc the basic stuff everyone understands. Stay on that message keep it simple and don’t let the convo get dragged into the details.


The only flaw I worry about this tho is so many people have been conditioned to demand more explanation from the left where they will just accept any old thing from the right about how **** will get done. That double standard is real and has to be navigated.

The problem here is who’s telling them/where ppl get the info. You can get left leaning news sources to help but you really think Fox News is gonna tell you how beneficial there programs are for you? And let’s say you are able to create a separate news platform (online/social media based) There is so much distrust from ppl that you would still have a hard sell. We have reached a point now where people question everything out of habit.. scholars in industries have less sway than Joe Rogan. It’s a wild time man.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I think answer is just do more left wing programs because people don’t really complain about left wing programs and policies when they actually in action and working. To me it just seems like people have a problem with how it’s told to them and the reasons why.

What aree xamples of this?

 

[heelsandeers]

Since 2016 every year voters say the trust republicans more to handle the economy.

And almost every year since 1960

Short of periods when Republicans are directly responsible for recessions or financial crisis

Conservative economic principals are as American as apple pie

is the answer to this more left wing programs?

Probably, because those are the only programs that work for most people in reality

They just need to be carefully packaged and branded

Most realistic left wing economic policy proposals are not that unpopular

 

[Armada]

The problem here is who’s telling them/where ppl get the info. You can get left leaning news sources to help but you really think Fox News is gonna tell you how beneficial there programs are for you? And let’s say you are able to create a separate news platform (online/social media based) There is so much distrust from ppl that you would still have a hard sell. We have reached a point now where people question everything out of habit.. scholars in industries have less sway than Joe Rogan. It’s a wild time man.

This is a fair point it’s gonna be a hard sell and the media isn’t gonna help you out with that messaging like it does with right wing messaging. It’s the downside of there being no real left wing media in this country it’s either full on alt right or polite centrist media. They will have to find a better way to get this simple message out and reach people. How that will look I don’t know. It’s gonna be tough to manage the current climate of the distrust people have of institutions a distrust people do have for good reason even if it’s expressed in misguided ways sometimes.

What aree xamples of this?

Two examples I think of this is like how people in this thread have recently talked shook how democrats and left wing people are perceived. People have this idea they are know it alls and people don’t like that. That’s why I’m saying the better thing to do is probably keep the messaging simple person to person and leave out the academic language.

The other probably is just likability and how you perceived. Biden administration did some of the more progressive and forward thinking legislation regarding workers we’ve seen in ages people didn’t care cause they don’t like him and don’t see the immediate affects.

That’s why I say people just seem to have a problem work who’s saying it and how it’s said more than what’s actually being done.

 

[Betonblck]

explain the child tax credit then,

it was implemented. nobody cared.
it was expiring, nobody cared.

I think a tax credit is too vague for the vast majority of voters. They have to wait all year for it and then they may use an accountant to do their taxes and they may not even understand why they got more back on their tax return. The tax accountant may say that they were the reason they got more back on their tax return.

 

[solewoman]

I think a tax credit is too vague for the vast majority of voters. They have to wait all year for it and then they may use an accountant to do their taxes and they may not even understand why they got more back on their tax return. The tax accountant may say that they were the reason they got more back on their tax return.

There is truth to this for people who don’t understand how these things work. I definitely understood the effects of the credit. A more tangible outcome of this could be the credit being spread out over 12 payments to the specified daycare. Or the real issue…putting caps on daycare expenses. I know that may cause uproar but when daycare is 535 a week for babies…? Who can seriously afford that plus a mortgage/rent?

 

[Public Enemy]

I think answer is just do more left wing programs because people don’t really complain about left wing programs and policies when they actually in action and working. To me it just seems like people have a problem with how it’s told to them and the reasons why.

Do it and just when explaining just say it’s about keeping prices down, economy, health care etc etc the basic stuff everyone understands. Stay on that message keep it simple and don’t let the convo get dragged into the details.

What aree xamples of this?

'Coach gives us all a lesson in how personal responsibility beats government intervention. "I've been on foodstamps and welfare, did anyone help me out? No."

 

[osh kosh bosh]

And almost every year since 1960

Short of periods when Republicans are directly responsible for recessions or financial crisis

Conservative economic principals are as American as apple pie



Probably, because those are the only programs that work for most people in reality

They just need to be carefully packaged and branded

Most realistic left wing economic policy proposals are not that unpopular

so basically what you're saying is the democrats need to do the same thing......

but expect a different result?

 

[elpablo21]

Dems deadass might just need to brand policies like Trumpcare for people to correlate that the same policies they've always liked and want in polling is some of the same ones they vote against.

 

[a-friend]

Rogan wasn’t going to give Kamala a fair shake. He’s IN ON IT. The flagrant guys and Andrew Shulz are in on it as well. The Joe Rogan podcast network is an extension of the Trump campaign overall. It’s like Kamala going on modern day Rush Limbaugh, or Tucker Carlson.

That podcast **** didn't matter at all.

She wasn't swaying anyone on Rogan's side cause they are fundamentally opposed to what they believe she represents.

Oh I hear you.
Same argument that was made when it was brought up last time.
Those are opinions and I can see how you’ve arrived at them, your argument has been more than heard.

From “she isn’t traveling all the way across the country” to “She isn’t winning any votes from Rogan”.
Simple thinking, loser mentality.
How are you going to win a someone to your side if you don’t even talk to anybody but your side.
They say Rogan has MORE BLACK(Charlemagne said this) than ANY, any podcast. Those were all voters and Trump voters? Not all of those BLACK listeners were 1. Voting at all 2. Voting for Trump.

So, Trump, how did he get RFK? Elon? Tulsi? Were those not lifelong DEMOCRATS? They must be in on it too? Rogan, I can’t include him as someone swayed because, he was always in on it anyway I heard. Point is, someone is a Trump supporter until they are not BUT, my initial point ALWAYS WAS and you can quote me, “she doesn’t need Rogan to win, Rogan does give her a chance to just be heard, and for people to get to know her”

People still don’t know her.
She never connected.
You may think the only thing that can come from her doing Podcasts is to win votes, I’m simply saying THAT IS NOT the reason THAT I THINK she would have done Rogan.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I hope this seals it for you. dblplay1212

HIGHER TURNOUT DOESN'T HELP DEMOCRATS ANYMORE.

 

[biggie62]

There is truth to this for people who don’t understand how these things work. I definitely understood the effects of the credit. A more tangible outcome of this could be the credit being spread out over 12 payments to the specified daycare. Or the real issue…putting caps on daycare expenses. I know that may cause uproar but when daycare is 535 a week for babies…? Who can seriously afford that plus a mortgage/rent?

yea this number sounds about right. When my friend told me that’s what him and his wife were paying I nearly collapsed.

 

[a-friend]

Let’s say going on Rogan wasn’t going to help her in any way. She didn't win, that’s a fact.
The thread has named several things her campaign do poorly, and what she should have done or could have done. What the hell do we know.

 

[wavycrocket]

So, Trump, how did he get RFK? Elon? Tulsi? Were those not lifelong DEMOCRATS? They must be in on it too? Rogan, I can’t include him as someone swayed because, he was always in on it anyway I heard. Point is, someone is a Trump supporter until they are not BUT, my initial point ALWAYS WAS and you can quote me, “she doesn’t need Rogan to win, Rogan does give her a chance to just be heard, and for people to get to know her”

People still don’t know her.
She never connected.
You may think the only thing that can come from her doing Podcasts is to win votes, I’m simply saying THAT IS NOT the reason THAT I THINK she would have done Rogan.

I want to respond to the bolded part specifically. YES!!!! Those three SPECIFICALLY were in on it as well. Many in here (and in the media) called those people “turning” way back as far as like 2018, if not before

Just type in the names RFK, Tulsi, etc on here. They are literally all part of the same network. That includes Elon and Rogan etc.

I really want people to understand that.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

good discussion of the Rogan issue.

 

[Kierris]

After having a few days to let things sink in. I voted for Kamala but I've paid attention to what they said are Trump's day 1 agendas and I'm not mad at the proposals so far... Plus, after hearing from others and just taking things in. I think I'm sold.



Trump just has too much aura.. Let's take America back to the top boys!! We can turn this country around and it starts with YOU!!!!!

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

People hate high prices, but they're unwilling to learn why high prices exist. You can't solve a problem if you misdiagnose it.

Good luck with the incoming cuts to consumer protection agencies.

Enough with the coddling of anti-intellectualism.

A quote by John Maynard Keynes

Markets can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.

www.goodreads.com

My favorite Keynes quote has been echoing in my head all morning. It never occurred to me to apply this to the marketplace of ideas, but now that seems dumb.

The left has been smugly trotting out “Facts have a liberal bias,” and promising reversion to the mean, but they don’t factor is the timing.

Meanwhile, Trump has made an entire life out of belief is reality and has consistently won.

Now, of course, reality does matter and our kids are going to die of climate related crisis effects, but that doesn’t really matter now. The left needs to stop thinking it can educate a public that doesn’t really want to be educated. We need a vibe-based strategy that hews to what people already believe.

We need to suck it up and accept as “fact” 80 percent of what right-wing media trots out. Because if we come at people with a completely different reality, they will not listen.