***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[aepps20]

aepps20
I am honored to be the official 40th subscriber of big JuJu's youtube channel. Rest assured you can claim the top 50 as well, even if you don't click on his channel for a few weeks.
We'll both be under the first 1000 viewers on his new video too. Now is the time to thank Rudy for all he has given us the last 8-9 years.

Thank you fam. I hit da subscribe button for da real Juju “Watkins” Ghoooliani

 

[osh kosh bosh]

So your issue is with Jacobin and Cenk, and likely some other online leftists. Painting the brush with a generalization of all leftists in general is still silly.

my issue is with Jacobin the biggest left wing publication, one of the biggest leftist political commentators, the biggest left wing politician Bernies sanders, the Leftist NIMBYs that control most of the major cities in my country and america. The biggest Canadian leftist political party, the leftist mayor of the city I live in. The left city council. The left wing coalition that ran my country for the last decade.

if this is not enough to generalize, I don't know what would be.

most of the push from this issue has come from the center left/right and neoliberal technocratic types.

 

[rexanglorum]

It’s bigger than all of Africa, folks.

 

[RustyShackleford]

NIMBYism is the one thing that seems to stretch across ideologies

People can point to California, but then you places like Montgomery County, Maryland or Minnesota that are having successes. Maine and Colorado passed missing middle reforms as well.

Texas builds a ton of home but they are still falling behind and check the case-shiller for the metro areas and it is rising quickly like most metros. In fact I think a lot of the home building that happens in Texas is happening in blue cities.

Housing inflation has been particular bad in Vegas, and the City of Las Vegas and Clark County haven't been run by leftist.

Some left wing outlets have been completely **** when it comes to housing, but places like Vox have been really good.

I'm fully on board with through scorn at any anti-housing person.

But I think the issue with seeing left-wing people do it is they feeling that they should know better.

Like if someone complains about income inequality, and homelessness, then they should be open to any and all solutions to those problem.

You got some leftist just more committed to being anti-capitalist, that nothing else matters.

But there are liberals, centrist, moderates, and conservatives that all have their stupid reasons to be a NIMBY.

And you have people of the same ideologies trying to do good.

 

[RustyShackleford]

my issue is with Jacobin the biggest left wing publication, one of the biggest leftist political commentators, the biggest left wing politician Bernies sanders, the Leftist NIMBYs that control most of the major cities in my country and america. The biggest Canadian leftist political party, the leftist mayor of the city I live in. The left city council. The left wing coalition that ran my country for the last decade.

if this is not enough to generalize, I don't know what would be.

most of the push from this issue has come from the center left/right and neoliberal technocratic types.

Some of the stuff you write here isn't really true though

A leftist is are anti-capitalist progressives. There are a ton of left wing progressives that are YIMBY are a capitalist

Leftist don't control most of the major cities in America. Democrats do, but Democrats of different flavors

The biggest YIMBYs in California's state government would probably identify as progressives as well. Problem is that there are progressive NIMBYism as well

A lot of the economic research done on housing have read over the years have come from progressive think tanks and economist

I would put people like Jerusalem Demas, Erza Klein, Eric Levitz, Krugman, and Chris Hayes as progressive liberals. I have seen all of them be very pro-housing.

So yeah, I think you find bad actors and people advocating for good policy across the political spectrum.

This far left bad, centrist breakdown doesn't really match up with what I have seen.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Some of the stuff you write here isn't really true though

A leftist is are anti-capitalist. There are a ton of left wing progressives that are YIMBY are a capitalist

Leftist don't control most of the major cities in America. Democrats do, but Democrats of different flavors

The biggest YIMBYs in California's state government would probably identify as progressives as well

we can quibble about definitions. who we count as leftist and not. If you want to draw the line at strictly orthodox leftist, and exclude progressives. fine

but I think it makes my generalized statement more true. anti capitalist Leftists def can't really be trusted on housing.

Do you trust them?
Originally I thought people were genuinely concerned with corporate power. but the more I deal with these people. IRL local politics.
I just don't believe it anymore. The crisis is too bad in Canada for me to take people seriously who deny the supply problem and fixate on things like blackrock or foreign buyer boogeymen.
and it's what people ALWAYS bring up when I talk with them about the supply problem.

Scott Weiner in California, has passed some great pro supply legislation.
but implementation of the duplex law has been slow, with local city councillors fighting its implementation every step of the way.

There are definitely progressive YIMBYs, just not enough.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Im sick of the housing crisis, sign me up.

 

[rexanglorum]

 

[dacomeup]

The left wing coalition that ran my country for the last decade.

I get it. We’ve seen it here time and time again. You have a gripe with a smaller subset of people, typically some faction on the left and you take the opportunity to make sweeping generalizations about a larger group. that doesn’t make it right.

 

[mplsdunk]

Everywhere is too damn expensive though, look at Florida. If you aren’t a boomer you can’t afford it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I get it. We’ve seen it here time and time again. You have a gripe with a smaller subset of people, typically some faction on the left and you take the opportunity to make sweeping generalizations about a larger group. that doesn’t make it right.

I just named a ton of people, large institutions, major political parties. The most popular streamer, one of the most popular youtubers. The most popular leftist publication.

You just can't admit that leftists do bad things that hurt people,


you'll just keep shifting the goalposts further and further.



but trust, at some point the bill will come due.

 

[RustyShackleford]

we can quibble about definitions. who we count as leftist and not. If you want to draw the line at strictly orthodox leftist, and exclude progressives. fine

but I think it makes my generalized statement more true. anti capitalist Leftists def can't really be trusted on housing.

Do you trust them?
Originally I thought people were genuinely concerned with corporate power. but the more I deal with these people. IRL local politics.
I just don't believe it anymore. The crisis is too bad in Canada for me to take people seriously who deny the supply problem and fixate on things like blackrock or foreign buyer boogeymen.
and it's what people ALWAYS bring up when I talk with them about the supply problem.

Scott Weiner in California, has passed some great pro supply legislation.
but implementation of the duplex law has been slow, with local city councillors fighting its implementation every step of the way.

ADVERTISEMENT​

There are definitely progressive YIMBYs, just not enough.

Over the past decade I think I have made my issues with leftist known. That I think their ideology and the mental models they use to work through some issues are highly flawed. Including on housing.

I just don't think everytime something doesn't get built it is because of some anti-capitalist leftist

It is such a a relatively small ideological group with the Democratic coalition, local officials have to answer to groups that want to sabotage programs to increase supply, and the system has a lot of veto points.

Leftists that sabotage new housing are bad, but if all anti-capitalist NIMBY leftist disappeared tomorrow I still think there will be a lot of saboteurs around.

Overall I think the biggest group of *******s messing stuff up is incumbent homeowners.

They have everyone else beat by a mile

 

[1995]

aepps20

 

[mplsdunk]

Impeachments don’t matter

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

People can point to California, but then you places like Montgomery County, Maryland or Minnesota that are having successes.

My admittedly poorly informed understanding is that MoCo isn’t a great example for housing development. I’d be interested in seeing an opposing view.

Lots of anti-development in the PRo Takoma Park. But I say that as a humble renter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/10/dc-regional-housing-targets/

 

[aepps20]

aepps20

LFGGGGGG

 

[rolaholic]

aepps20

Galaxy brain thinking threatening the sovereignty of an age old ally and top trade partner who also happens to supply 98% of your natural gas imports, 93% of electrical imports and almost 30% of your uranium imports, before even taking office

Nothing could go bad or backfire

 

[rolaholic]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Over the past decade I think I have made my issues with leftist known. That I think their ideology and the mental models they use to work through some issues are highly flawed. Including on housing.

I just don't think everytime something doesn't get built it is because of some anti-capitalist leftist

It is such a a relatively small ideological group with the Democratic coalition, local officials have to answer to groups that want to sabotage programs to increase supply, and the system has a lot of veto points.

yah but to be clear the orignal comment that sparked that argument was I said was "you can't trust leftists when it comes to housing policy" i didn't say every single thing is the fault of leftists.
I think its fair to generalize that many leftist, have a bunch of really dumb ideas about housing. and you can't take them seriously when they are lying about how much of the housing market blackrock owns. I think that is a totally fair analysis of the situation.

Leftists that sabotage new housing are bad, but if all anti-capitalist NIMBY leftist disappeared tomorrow I still think there will be a lot of saboteurs around.

Overall I think the biggest group of *******s messing stuff up is incumbent homeowners.

They have everyone else beat by a mile

the nature of big cities, at least in Canada. is the places most in need of development are downtown single family neighborhoods.
There's neighborhoods tend to be filled older progressives and leftists, they tend to be represented by very progressive city councillors.

these leftist coded nimby talking points filter down from these people down to the populace.
to the point where young progressive non homeowners repeat them to me when I engage them on this subject.

fundamentally, if it's a suburban conservative NIMBY, or a leftist NIMBY I think all of them deserve scorn.


it makes me truly sick. they've robbed my generation of prosperity.

 

[RustyShackleford]

My admittedly poorly informed understanding is that MoCo isn’t a great example for housing development. I’d be interested in seeing an opposing view.

Lots of anti-development in the PRo Takoma Park. But I say that as a humble renter.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/04/10/dc-regional-housing-targets/

I was referring to places passing laws aimed increasing affordable housing.

The county's public housing scheme seems like a success. One that they and other places should build on.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/business/affordable-housing-montgomery-county.html

Nearly everywhere is struggling to keep up with demand. Even Texas

But osh kosh bosh was arguing that leftist control all these cities, and all these cities are sabotaging affordable housing.

And one of my pushbacks is that there are places that people on the left govern where they do try to do stuff to increase supply.

If MoCo is falling short of meeting demand, ok. But nearly the entire country is. No matter who governs them

 

[RustyShackleford]

yah but to be clear the orignal comment that sparked that argument was I said was "you can't trust leftists when it comes to housing policy" i didn't say every single thing is the fault of leftists.
I think its fair to generalize that many leftist, have a bunch of really dumb ideas about housing. and you can't take them seriously when they are lying about how much of the housing market blackrock owns. I think that is a totally fair analysis of the situation.

I think the argument you are trying to make is "every single leftist that behaves in a certain way can't be trust", and you are using the Blackrock talking points as an example. Which I am willing to say is fair.

But the "every single leftist behaves this way" argument is a harder sell to me.

the nature of big cities, at least in Canada. is the places most in need of development are downtown single family neighborhoods.
There's neighborhoods tend to be filled older progressives and leftists, they tend to be represented by very progressive city councillors.

these leftist coded nimby talking points filter down from these people down to the populace.
to the point where young progressive non homeowners repeat them to me when I engage them on this subject.

fundamentally, if it's a suburban conservative NIMBY, or a leftist NIMBY I think all of them deserve scorn.


it makes me truly sick. they've robbed my generation of prosperity.

From this example it seems to me it is the homeowner incumbency that is the issue.

Like if you make all those leftist and progressives homeowners into conservatives, they would still be NIMBY.

If you turn them all into renters, facing higher and higher rents, then increasing housing supply would align with their self interest and you would get less of pushback.

So yeah, I don't see the progressivism or leftist leanings as some unique obstacle or annoyance.

You just find it uniquely annoying. Which is fine I guess.

But young people repeating bad talking points isn't really the primary roadblock.

 

[DripNick]

Things you love to see:

Scenes from Place de la République last night

 

[TooOlfForThisIsh]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/25/business/affordable-housing-montgomery-county.html

I knew you’d have receipts. Thanks, I wasn’t aware of this program or the 15% rule. Super informative.

When I was visiting home, my dad showed me a new section 8 building going up. The builders had spent about twice per unit as the area average. It’s really great to see that a lot of new affordable housing is indistinguishable from starter housing for people with higher paying careers. Hopefully this strategy will lessen NYMBY objections. Harder to hate on the Gables of the Fountains of AvalonEstates than on Booker T Washington Houses or whatever.

 

[rolaholic]

Very normal times

Russia invading Ukraine and China wanting Taiwan is bad but imperial bloodlust for your neighbor is actually good?

 

[kdawg]

Shot:

Chaser: