***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[AZwildcats]

If Cali leaves, I will officially file my application to immigrate there 

We will welcome you with open arms, a bong, and a gift card to In N Out.

faith in humanity restored

 

[moe fab]

I know some of yall joking about Calexit but yall do know how stupid it would be if that was done?

You'd be be better off hoping for a massive earthquake that turned Cali in to an island.

Elaborate?

On which part?

Hoping for a massive earthquake that distances you from the country as your state drifts in to the Pacific?

or California literally attempting to secede from the union (which is not at all similar to Brits leaving the EU) being unfeasible and unacceptable to the USA?

Don't tell me you really think yall can vote your way out of America. You either gonna get down or lay down.

I know some of yall joking about Calexit but yall do know how stupid it would be if that was done?

You'd be be better off hoping for a massive earthquake that turned Cali in to an island.

Wed be stupid to stay, n do you kno how many pools we got? Everyone in Cali kan swim

So you really think attempting to become your own sovereign state while still attached to America (while Donald Trump is president) is less stupid than waiting out 4 possible years of Donald Trump? Really? Yall gotta be smoking that good loud out there then.

Or is it that the US has reached the point of no return and yall want out no matter what?

There'd be a Californian Civil War underway before the US drone strikes began.

I have a sense the us aint gonna get better without some aktual aktion taking place, this elektion has proven that. Be that liberals or konservatives, this elektion, in my mind, has been such a polarizing event. Ive kalled trump, our lincoln, tounge in cheek by the way, kuz he seems to have america divided america in a similar way. Will that kome to bloodshed? In all likelihood, prolly not.

But that doesnt underskore the racial tension, that has been building up since obama was elekted, the fear taktics, played by both sides of the media, n the overall diskontent, liberals n konservatives alike, brewing throughout the nation. N, to be honest, i think if hillary had won, wed prolly be facing these same issues, however, i dont think white supremacists would be taking such outward glee in the misery of minorities, liberals, n women. Had trump not based his kampaign on white supremacy, i kould deal with the fakt hes our next president a whole lot better. Yet the fakt remains, he ran his kampaign by using mexicans n muslims as red herrings, as to why we have no ekonomic opportunites, which unemployment n a variety of other stats prove obama has been righting the ship, n that we are unsafe within our borders, however, it is the kriminal justice system, people like me find as a bigger threat to our public safety n livelihood (n i live in san bernardino of all places), while demeaning blacks, with racist talking points n bull**** "stats", n degrading women, which are all virtues many dont feel an american president should posess. N all of this is exkluding him praising russia, who has been a staunch opponent to our ideals as a kountry, undermining our treaties with allies, n boosting the wealthy, all while furthering the burden on the middle klass n marginalizing the poor.

So to think america has gone off the rails may be a longshot, as of yet, but it does seem we are on a very treacherous road. I have a kid brother n nephews to look out for, all of whom are chicano, n i worry about the america theyll be forced to live in as they grow older. My well being rests on the fakt that theyll be given opportunities better than i have had. With trump in office, his kronies belittling people like me, all the while championing people that have historikally held mine, n those like me, back, n his supporters akting like klassless human beings, do i feel america is losing her way? Youre ***damn right i do! N if by any chance my state has an option to remove itself from that, you kan bet your bottom dollar im willing to go that route.

While i kan hope that trump does right by america, his track rekord speaks volumes as to why i have absolutely no trust that he will.

As far as im koncerned, **** donald trump with a saguaro, these four years are four years too many. Lets get #Calexit on the ballot in 2018, n **** all those that dont like it

If Cali leaves, I will officially file my application to immigrate there 

Get in where you fit in homie, wed welkome you with open arms [emoji]127867[/emoji]

 

[teamjordan79]

Whether someone agrees with it or not, it is often more cost effective to manufacture outside of the U.S.

It's just funny how peoples posture changes based on who made the deal. If it was Bernie who made this move he wouldn't have responded that way, there would have been praise.. but because Trump tends to lean right, he had to say something like utilizing Nafta to outsource would have a better outcome (completely against his progressive ideologies)

 

[AZwildcats]

Top ten poorest states in the country according to Business Insider:

the number after the state name is the poverty rate 

10. West Virginia 18.5%

9. South Carolina 18.6%

8. Arizona 18.6% 

 

7. Alabama 18.7%

6. Kentucky 18.8%

5. Washington DC 18.9% ( has highest level of income equality in the country)

4. Georgia 19%

3. Louisiana 19.8% (shame with all the natural resources)

2. New Mexico 22% 

1. Mississippi 24.1%, or 700,00 people living under the poverty line 

 

[rexanglorum]

And if he were alive and kicking today, I would not want Fidel Castro to be the President of the United States either.

 

[gry60]

.

The articles states that Carrier uses the state of Indiana as hostage, so while in the short run some of the jobs are kept, Carriee can threaten more in the future to gain more tax breaks which will plunder more of the state's treasury, which could have been used to improve state infrastructure, education, and other programs.
While Trump may be doing some good, overall what Carrier doing is legal ransom, and instead of getting punished for trying to outsource, they get rewarded for only keeping some jobs that may not be guaranteed to be there after 3-4 years.

I don't know when it's going to dawn on them that this deal amounts to employees essentially paying to work.

Whether someone agrees with it or not, it is often more cost effective to manufacture outside of the U.S.

It's just funny how peoples posture changes based on who made the deal. If it was Bernie who made this move he wouldn't have responded that way, there would have been praise.. but because Trump tends to lean right, he had to say something like utilizing Nafta to outsource would have a better outcome (completely against his progressive ideologies)

I'm sure you are as pro-capitalism as they come (given your insistence on arguing against regulation). Guess what: Carrier (and other other companies) outsourcing jobs is exactly how capitalism without regulations is supposed to work because the perfect capitalist machine is the one that produces something for the least expense possible. Capitalism without regulation leads to monopolies, collusion, and price-fixing that will always favor the corporation at the expense of the consumer or employee (see Uber/Lyft, see silicon valley companies colluding to stop wage inflation, see cable companies, etc...). So while you're pointing out "progressive flip flopping", don't forget that you, Mr Laissez Faire Capitalism, are asking the government to protect you against the outcome of an ideology you support.

 

[nephew]

.
I don't know when it's going to dawn on them that this deal amounts to employees essentially paying to work.
I'm sure you are as pro-capitalism as they come (given your insistence on arguing against regulation). Guess what: Carrier (and other other companies) outsourcing jobs is exactly how capitalism without regulations is supposed to work because the perfect capitalist machine is the one that produces something for the least expense possible. Capitalism without regulation leads to monopolies, collusion, and price-fixing that will always favor the corporation at the expense of the consumer or employee (see Uber/Lyft, see silicon valley companies colluding to stop wage inflation, see cable companies, etc...). So while you're pointing out "progressive flip flopping", don't forget that you, Mr Laissez Faire Capitalism, are asking the government to protect you against the outcome of an ideology you support.

So your saying upping the competition while reducing regulation will hurt the consumer or employee here in the us? Look at what happened to the medical industry when it started being heavily regulated. It has been a disaster and if possible, the agenda Obama came in office with will be repealed. In turn, we basically have wasted 6 years of a presidency on thousands of pages of regulation in heindsight.

The only issue your not understanding is that companies began to favor outsourcing over insourcing to protect profits because of policy put in place by the Democratic Party that included raising taxes along with expanding regulation (85% of which was nonsense that didn't help anything) state side that garnered that outcome.

How many instances of robbing peter to pay Paul would you have to witness to understand this?

And for the record, no. Your completely wrong that capitalism caused this issue. It was purely caused by failed democratic policies, and the people that actually built this place are tired of giving up their coin at he expense of people that think this way (hence the election results)


And whomever said rusty was not pro-Bernie, read back a few dozen pages and witness for yourself. The stance just changed after he realized it wasn't humanly possible.

 

[wubalubadubdub]

i dont think tbe talking heads understand that the average person doesn't care if trump is being hypocritical or short sighted with the carrier deal. That headline is a win for him.

I haven't seen any real steps towards fixing the issues of automation and outsourcing from the party elites on either side.

 

[ninjahood]

i dont think tbe talking heads understand that the average person doesn't care if trump is being hypocritical or short sighted with the carrier deal. That headline is a win for him.

straight W.

 

[ninjahood]

Shouting match erupts between Clinton and Trump aides

Kellyanne Conway, Donald Trump’s campaign manager, sits with Robby Mook, Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager, prior to a forum at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government. (Charles Krupa/AP)
By Karen Tumulty and Philip Rucker PoliticsDecember 1 at 9:07 PM
CAMBRIDGE, Mass. — The raw, lingering emotion of the 2016 presidential campaign erupted into a shouting match here Thursday as top strategists of Hillary Clinton’s campaign accused their Republican counterparts of fueling and legitimizing racism to elect Donald Trump.

The extraordinary exchange came at a postmortem session sponsored by Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government, where top operatives from both campaigns sat across a conference table from each other.

As Trump’s team basked in the glow of its victory and singled out for praise its campaign’s chief executive, Stephen K. Bannon, who was absent, the row of grim-faced Clinton aides who sat opposite them bristled.

Clinton communications director Jennifer Palmieri condemned Bannon, who previously ran Breitbart, a news site popular with the alt-right, a small movement known for espousing racist views.


“If providing a platform for white supremacists makes me a brilliant tactician, I am proud to have lost,” she said. “I would rather lose than win the way you guys did.”

Protesters still turn out after Bannon cancels Harvard visit Play Video0:41

Chief White House strategist Stephen Bannon opted not to attend an event at Harvard's Institute of Politics, but protesters took to the streets regardless (Twitter/Eli Gerzon of Jewish Voice for Peace)
Kellyanne Conway, Trump’s campaign manager, fumed: “Do you think I ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform?”

“You did, Kellyanne. You did,” interjected Palmieri, who choked up at various points of the session.

“Do you think you could have just had a decent message for white, working-class voters?” Conway asked. “How about, it’s Hillary Clinton, she doesn’t connect with people? How about, they have nothing in common with her? How about, she doesn’t have an economic message?”

Joel Benenson, Clinton’s chief strategist, piled on: “There were dog whistles sent out to people. . . . Look at your rallies. He delivered it.”

At which point, Conway accused Clinton’s team of being sore losers. “Guys, I can tell you are angry, but wow,” she said. “Hashtag he’s your president. How’s that? Will you ever accept the election results? Will you tell your protesters that he’s their president, too?”


The session was part of a two-day forum that the school’s Institute of Politics has sponsored in the wake of every presidential election since 1972. It gathers operatives from nearly all of the primary and general election campaigns, as well as a large contingent of journalists, with the stated goal of beginning to compile a historical record.


Hillary Clinton’s communications director Jennifer Palmieri and campaign manager Robby Mook speak to the traveling press corps aboard the campaign plane above Cedar Rapids, Iowa. (Melina Mara/The Washington Post)
[The election is over, but the Trump rallies continue: The president-elect’s fans turn out for him in Ohio]

Generally, the quadrennial gatherings are frank but civil ones, in which political operatives at the top of their game accord each other a measure of professional respect.

This year, in the wake of a brutal campaign with a surprise outcome, it was clear that the wounds have not yet begun to heal. The animosity of the campaign aides mirrors the broader feelings of millions of voters on both sides.

Campaign officials lashed out at each other, and also against the media — which neither side believed had treated it fairly.

Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook also acknowledged that her operation had made a number of mistakes and miscalculations, while being buffeted by what he repeatedly described as a “head wind” of being an establishment candidate in a season where voters were eager for change.

He noted, for example, that younger voters, perhaps assuming that Clinton was going to win, migrated to third-party candidates in the final days of the race.

Where the campaign needed to win upward of 60 percent of young voters, it was able to garner something “in the high 50s at the end of the day,” Mook said. “That’s why we lost.”

He and others also faulted FBI Director James B. Comey for deciding in the waning days of the campaign to revive the controversy over Clinton’s use of a private email server.


Trump officials said Clinton’s problems went beyond tactics to her weaknesses as a candidate and the deficits of a message that consisted largely of trying to make Trump unacceptable.

David Bossie, Trump’s deputy campaign manager, taunted Mook: “You call it ‘head winds,’ I call it self-inflicted wounds.”

Conway added, “There’s a difference for voters between what offends you and what affects you,” arguing that Trump was speaking more directly to people’s anxieties and needs.

Strategists for Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.), who waged a strong challenge against Clinton for the Democratic nomination, agreed. “There was a large part of the Democratic primary electorate who had concerns about the secretary’s veracity and forthrightness,” said Jeff Weaver, Sanders’s campaign manager.

Clinton’s campaign aides insisted, again and again, that their candidate had been held to a different standard than the other contenders — as evidenced by the controversy over her use of a private email server while secretary of state.

Palmieri said that many political journalists had a personal dislike for the Democratic nominee and predicted that the email issue will go down in history as “the most grossly overrated, over-covered and most destructive story in all of presidential politics.”

“If I made one mistake, it was legitimizing the way the press covered this story line,” Palmieri said.

Mook added that Trump deftly used his rally speeches to “switch up the news cycle.”

“The media by and large was not covering what Hillary Clinton was choosing to say,” Mook said. “They were treating her like the likely winner, and they were constantly trying to unearth secrets and expose.”


For instance, Mook posited that the media did not scrutinize Trump’s refusal to release his tax returns as intensively as the issue of Clinton’s private email server.

Conway retorted: “Oh, my God, that question was vomited to me every day on TV.”

The strangest criticism of the media, however, was by Trump’s former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski.

His complaint: Journalists accurately reported what Trump said.

“This is the problem with the media. You guys took everything that Donald Trump said so literally,” Lewandowski said. “The American people didn’t. They understood it. They understood that sometimes — when you have a conversation with people, whether it’s around the dinner table or at a bar — you’re going to say things, and sometimes you don’t have all the facts to back it up.”

[Trump escalates his conflict with the media]

At a dinner the previous evening, CNN chief executive Jeff Zucker was heckled during a panel discussion about the media by operatives from several losing Republican campaigns, who accused the network of showering Trump with free publicity.

To win the GOP nomination, Trump vanquished a highly credentialed field of 16 other Republicans, some of whom were backed up by tens of millions of dollars in outside spending. What his opponents failed to recognize, until it was too late, was that 2016 would be a year unlike any other, in which the standard rules would not apply.

“The uniqueness of this cycle made it such that some of those traditional kind of avenues became less effective,” said Danny Diaz, who managed the campaign of the presumed early front-runner, former Florida governor Jeb Bush.

“Money and mechanics matter, but passion about a candidate matters more,” added Mike DuHaime, a strategist for New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R), another establishment figure in the race.

Barry Bennett, the campaign manager for retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, said of voters: “What they wanted more than anything else was strength, and Donald Trump was supplying it every day.”

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Clinton consultant Mandy Grunwald had a darker interpretation, which she expressed in an icy backhanded compliment to the Trump team on Thursday: “I don’t think you give yourself enough credit for the negative campaign you ran.”

She noted that the murky corners of the Internet were rife with false stories that Clinton was in dire health, and on the verge of going to prison. “I hear this heroic story of him connecting with voters,” Grunwald said. “But there was a very impressive gassing of her.”

Benenson, meanwhile, served notice that the election may be over but that the battles it spawned are not.

“You guys won, that’s clear,” Benenson said. “But let’s be honest. Don’t act as if you have a popular mandate for your message. The fact of the matter is that more Americans voted for Hillary Clinton than for Donald Trump.”

At which point Conway turned to her side and said: “Hey, guys, we won. You don’t have to respond. He was the better candidate. That’s why he won.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...00bd9d38a02_story.html?utm_term=.c28eb2d54ef9

 

[wubalubadubdub]

I'm shocked they agreed to do that forum together

 

[nephew]

I haven't seen any real steps towards fixing the issues of automation and outsourcing from the party elites on either side.

Trump's whole message has been on bringing back jobs that have been outsourced to other countries. The specific wording was not used to avoid bias if you ask me

 

[whywesteppin]

ignoring what's a perceived win or not, don't you want the core problem fixed?

 

[gry60]

.
I don't know when it's going to dawn on them that this deal amounts to employees essentially paying to work.
I'm sure you are as pro-capitalism as they come (given your insistence on arguing against regulation). Guess what: Carrier (and other other companies) outsourcing jobs is exactly how capitalism without regulations is supposed to work because the perfect capitalist machine is the one that produces something for the least expense possible. Capitalism without regulation leads to monopolies, collusion, and price-fixing that will always favor the corporation at the expense of the consumer or employee (see Uber/Lyft, see silicon valley companies colluding to stop wage inflation, see cable companies, etc...). So while you're pointing out "progressive flip flopping", don't forget that you, Mr Laissez Faire Capitalism, are asking the government to protect you against the outcome of an ideology you support.

So your saying upping the competition while reducing regulation will hurt the consumer or employee here in the us?

That is not what I'm saying.

Laissez-faire capitalism destroys competition, either by eliminating the poorest companies through pricing wars or by companies colluding to regulate costs to their liking. The examples I gave were that of companies that went around existing regulations to get ahold of the market (uber/lyft colluding to price livery companies out of the market by reducing fares to unsustainable levels, and uber using surge pricing to maximize revenue at the time demand is the highest).

Without regulations, you get monopolies; with monopolies, consumers pay the price companies want for their products; with monopolies, companies get to set the barriers of entry as high or as low as they want.

People forget that the history US up to WWII was a highly deregulated era of our history. Children were working dangerous jobs, workers had few rights and protections, few companies were truly competing, and all the wealth was in very few hands.

 

[nephew]

leave alone is key when it comes to government being involved in business. This type of economics allows everything to be voluntary, which is how things should be regarding business here in this "free country".

Workers have rights but we don't need unions to help workers run a company they have no business running. I'm also against collective bargaining. They are workers, not owners so if they are unhappy with their position they can go somewhere else.

 

[whywesteppin]

freedom is granted to individuals, not companies.

a functioning country required taxes and regulations. fact.

 

[whywesteppin]

trump "adds" 1000 jobs: media/trump surrogates go into a praise frenzy

Obama adds nearly 178,000 jobs: conservatives will find a way to say it's not real

 

[rillo561]

Now the liberal mainstream media is telling the truth

 

[gry60]

leave alone is key when it comes to government being involved in business. This type of economics allows everything to be voluntary, which is how things should be regarding business here in this "free country".

Workers have rights but we don't need unions to help workers run a company they have no business running. I'm also against collective bargaining. They are workers, not owners so if they are unhappy with their position they can go somewhere else.

But...

Trump, 1st member of the government, just intervened in a business' affairs and YOU cheered for it.

Do you even realize how you are contradicting yourself?

 

[nephew]

The only record numbers Obama set were the number of federal workers and the debt.

Growth slowed under Obama. Anything involving money with him is nothing to brag about. Remember he is a lawyer.. these people live and breathe regulation.

You guys had 8 years to pull it together and it didn't happen. Debt doubled, companies kept moving over state lines because they were suffocated and look at the results. People that don't understand this type of thing voted left.. the rest are tired of it and voted right.

 

[nephew]

https://news.grabien.com/story.php?id=1647

Go to the 1 minute mark

 

[gry60]

The only record numbers Obama set were the number of federal workers and the debt.

Growth slowed under Obama. Anything involving money with him is nothing to brag about. Remember he is a lawyer.. these people live and breathe regulation.

You guys had 8 years to pull it together and it didn't happen. Debt doubled, companies kept moving over state lines because they were suffocated and look at the results. People that don't understand this type of thing voted left.. the rest are tired of it and voted right.

Wasn't there another NTer that used to post this kind of unsubstantiated drivel?

You're probably part of those who have turned their political leanings into a belief system., the kind that will always vote (R) even if the GOP vowed to sacrifice your whole family to the altar of the free mark.... wait they did.

 

[ninjahood]

I'm shocked they agreed to do that forum together

im looking for da audio...

 

[nephew]

But...

Trump, 1st member of the government, just intervened in a business' affairs and YOU cheered for it.

Do you even realize how you are contradicting yourself?

He didn't intervene by adding regulation and tax though, so your point is not applicable. The intervention helped and prevented a us business from moving more manufacturing to Mexico and kept more money flowing through the economy.

 

[whywesteppin]

You guys had 8 years to pull it together