***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Master Zik]

Ted Cruz is now saying that we should have police patrols in Muslim communities to prevent radicalization

Sounds like that would just increase animosity.

 

[deleted]

Sounds like that would just increase animosity.

Absolutely

NYPD tried it before and it was a failure that resulted in ZERO leads and ZERO terror investigations

 

[Armada]

 

Ted Cruz is now saying that we should have police patrols in Muslim communities to prevent radicalization

Sounds like that would just increase animosity.

Exactly. They don't understand that there is nothing physically you can do to stop an ideology that is already out there. This is not a traditional battle/war and it can't be won like that.

 

[ben roethlisberger]

-First things first.

The federal government had to fight a Civil War for slavery to end. Freedom in America was not granted to black people from the jump by private citizens. The government had to go against a ton of private and local white racist interest. Same things with Civil Rights.

It was the Federal Government bringing guns to a university to make local officials allow black people to get educated.

You love to paint this picture of the people needing the government to "take care of them" or scare to live without the government. Well in a way I am, I am scare of what local officials and private white citizens will do to minorities, specially black people if the federal government just went away.

Acting like everyone would just like in harmony is ********.

The problem in America is that private citizens, specially white supremacist, can't put their bigotry aside for the greater good

-Another non racial example. You on the internet talking about how people don't need any kind of government. On the internet, the internet. A system that only came to being because of government intervention, when there where plenty of private companies what to kill the project from the jump.

-Yes I do believe voting is the answer. American turnout for election is pitiful. We criticize the government for not looking out for the people but many of the complainer don't even show up to hold the officials accountable.

And if you look at voting trends, groups that continuously show up to vote tend to get policies passed in their favor.

And stop acting like the only election is the general in the fall. Their are primaries, their state and local elections too. More independents would have a chance if we can change the system away from what it is currently in.

You want a revolution to overthrow the entire government, with no idea of what comes next, but have you stop to consider that a political revolution of a high actively active public would work to fix many of flaws in the system. And you know, actually make sense

Let me make myself clear; I don't believe in capitalism. Therefore, I think the system from it's core is a giant flaw.

I believe we are wasting our time here on Earth with capitalism and consumerism. And no matter how you slice it, the outcome will eventually remain the same no matter who you put in office because the system stimulates our lower, primal energy centers - like fear, greed, gluttony, sexual desire, jealousy etc. But I digress.

Tell me how local elected officials eventually get a seat in the senate or congress? If you have anti corruption legislation, who's the people that's going to be hurt by it? The people benefiting from the way things are. So how do you get corruption reform through the very people that are benefiting from corruption?

And if voting was the answer, and it's our lack of cooperation in the voting process that has lead us where we are today, why has the outcome always been the same no matter if blacks and women were granted suffrage or not? Surely women and blacks made up a large % of people that would have evoked radical change had it been possible. It seems more like the corporate government finally felt the pressure and offered crumbs disguised as the whole loaf of bread. Like "**** it, let them play in the game as well, more money for us!"

In 2012, we saw the largest turn out of young voters in Presidential election history, and what was the outcome? The same corporate hegemony and imperialism.

Unless the public is made aware of who the real crooks are, what we are truly facing environmentally and economically, than a bigger turn out won't be the fix.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Problem is all those young voters only voted that one time and went back to social media

 

[ben roethlisberger]

The problem in America is that private citizens, specially white supremacist, can't put their bigotry aside for the greater good. Just look at the periods of America history when third and independent candidates had more pull. When the government looked out for the working class, through the new deal.

The Republican and Democratic parties squash those third party candidates every time.

You already know this.

It isn't the white supremacist public fault, its the people who have manipulated white supremacists to think the way they do in the first place.

 

[ben roethlisberger]

Problem is all those young voters only voted that one time and went back to social media

Look who they voted for, though. That was my point.

A higher turn out didn't mean a vote for the more compassionate candidate. It just meant more votes for the same lying corporate representative.

 

[sundoobie]

Unless the public is made aware of who the real crooks are, what we are truly facing environmentally and economically, than a bigger turn out won't be the fix.

Exactly! Just look at our previous Federal Attorney General (Holder) who is now making 2.5 million annually as a Corporate Attorney for a law firm (Covington & Burling) that represents billion dollar Wall Street Bankers. Not to mention not one Wall Street executive was prosecuted under his tenure for the crimes they committed against the public during the housing crisis. It's amazing that these 'crooks' get away with this crap year in and year out.

 

[RustyShackleford]

-First things first.

The federal government had to fight a Civil War for slavery to end. Freedom in America was not granted to black people from the jump by private citizens. The government had to go against a ton of private and local white racist interest. Same things with Civil Rights.

It was the Federal Government bringing guns to a university to make local officials allow black people to get educated.

You love to paint this picture of the people needing the government to "take care of them" or scare to live without the government. Well in a way I am, I am scare of what local officials and private white citizens will do to minorities, specially black people if the federal government just went away.

Acting like everyone would just like in harmony is ********.

The problem in America is that private citizens, specially white supremacist, can't put their bigotry aside for the greater good

-Another non racial example. You on the internet talking about how people don't need any kind of government. On the internet, the internet. A system that only came to being because of government intervention, when there where plenty of private companies what to kill the project from the jump.

-Yes I do believe voting is the answer. American turnout for election is pitiful. We criticize the government for not looking out for the people but many of the complainer don't even show up to hold the officials accountable.

And if you look at voting trends, groups that continuously show up to vote tend to get policies passed in their favor.

And stop acting like the only election is the general in the fall. Their are primaries, their state and local elections too. More independents would have a chance if we can change the system away from what it is currently in.

You want a revolution to overthrow the entire government, with no idea of what comes next, but have you stop to consider that a political revolution of a high actively active public would work to fix many of flaws in the system. And you know, actually make sense

Let me make myself clear; I don't believe in capitalism. Therefore, I think the system from it's core is a giant flaw.

I believe we are wasting our time here on Earth with capitalism and consumerism. And no matter how you slice it, the outcome will eventually remain the same no matter who you put in office because the system stimulates our lower, primal energy centers - like fear, greed, gluttony, sexual desire, jealousy etc. But I digress.

Tell me how local elected officials eventually get a seat in the senate or congress? If you have anti corruption legislation, who's the people that's going to be hurt by it? The people benefiting from the way things are. So how do you get corruption reform through the very people that are benefiting from corruption?

And if voting was the answer, and it's our lack of cooperation in the voting process that has lead us where we are today, why has the outcome always been the same no matter if blacks and women were granted suffrage or not? Surely women and blacks made up a large % of people that would have evoked radical change had it been possible. It seems more like the corporate government finally felt the pressure and offered crumbs disguised as the whole loaf of bread. Like "**** it, let them play in the game as well, more money for us!"

In 2012, we saw the largest turn out of young voters in Presidential election history, and what was the outcome? The same corporate hegemony and imperialism.

Unless the public is made aware of who the real crooks are, what we are truly facing environmentally and economically, than a bigger turn out won't be the fix.

-Do you even realize that the purest form on capitalism is anarcho-capitalism? You don't like crony capitalism, neither do most people. However, if you're an anarchist, then you're implicating a big fan of capitalism

-Then end of slavery and cvil rights were crumbs?

This is why I don't take much of what you say very serious. You act like racism and white supremacy is something that the "powers at be" tricked white people into believing.

A civil war had to be fought, decades long civil rights struggle had to happen, when the new deal passed black people where still cut out, people reject Obamacare mainly because it disproportionately helps minorities.

But all these things that made the world of difference in people's lives are "crumbs" to you.

You completely gloss over the fact of white supremacy in this country, and that there are millions of private citizens that strongly believe in white supremacy, and they demand their government does too.

Just look at Trump's rise.

This is why other people won't take your world view seriously, especially me. Not because they are "scared" to hear the truth, like you love to claim

-And stop acting like I'm saying turn out for one election and things will be solved. I'm staying turnout out for every election, at high numbers, federal, state, local, no matter what, and that will lead to things getting better.

 

[cl-1b]

More race baiting misinformation lies by rusty about white supremacy. Smh give it a rest

 

[ben roethlisberger]

-Do you even realize that the purest form on capitalism is anarcho-capitalism? You don't like crony capitalism. Neither no most people, but your an anarchist, then you're implicating a big fan of capitalism

-Then end of slavery and cvil rights were crumbs?

This is why I don't take much of what you say serious. You act like racism and white supremacy is something that the "powers at be" tricked white people into believing.

A civil war had to be fought, decades long civil rights struggle had to happen, when the new deal passed black people where still cut out, people reject Obamacare mainly because it disproportionately helps minorities.

But all these things that made the world of difference in people's lives are "crumbs" to you.

This is why other people won't take your world view seriously, well especially me, because it completely glosses over the fact of white supremacy in this country. Not because they are "scared" to hear the truth

Yes, crumbs. Because all blacks did was integrate into a system that they never believed in in the first place. You fought to be a part of the white mans game. A game that is still economic and spiritual slavery, just more sophisticated. That is what you fail to realize.

Slavery is not something that should be spoken about in past tense. Here's a more tangible example for you, that somehow you will find a way to dismiss; that cell phone you're posting from is a direct manifestation of slavery. BLACK children in the Congo being forced to work upwards to 20 hours a day in a mine with no protective uniform, inhaling fumes that are killing them, for pennies on the dollar. All because of the corporate monopoly of the system you support. That you fund! C'mon man!

I won't even bring up Michael Jordan and the Prison Industrial Complex. Wouldn't want you to cancel your Eastbay Magazine subscription.

And if white supremacy isn't the cause of an external influence, are you implying that it is an internal issue? Because that's exactly what it sounds like you are saying.

 

[blco02]

Let me ask you something. You weren't born in this country. Yet you voluntarily decided to come to this evil, nasty, racist, sexist, indecent, unfair, bigoted, white priveledge filled, hateful cesspool. Why come here and voluntarily become a citizen of such an evil place?

Still waiting on an answer for this...

 

[Master Zik]

 

[AEA18]

Master Zik

Must be the wind

 

[blco02]

I wasn't addressing you two trolls so you can go ahead and pretend you've got me and others blocked even though you selectively respond to certain posts.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Master Zik

Must be the wind

You should see the Belgium bombing thread famb

Nothing but gust of foolishness, coming in from the right

 

[cl-1b]

Nothing that compares to your misinformation, race baiting and lies rusty. Believe that

 

[AEA18]

I seent the foolishness from the usual suspects.

A whole lot of hot air from some blowhards.

 

[Belgium]

We no longer have to deal with CL-1B's ignorance

Agreed.  His stay here is now over. 

 

[ninjahood]

Imma just say this...opposing far left wing

Policies doesn't make you a "racist" or

"White supremacist". Opposing far right views

Doesnt make you any less American or a

Patriot....

That said, if ya dont becareful wit da racial

Rhetoric, ya gonna start sounding like da

Diametrically equivalent of Storm Front...

 

[frankmatthews]

-And stop acting like I'm saying turn out for one election and things will be solved. I'm staying turnout out for every election, at high numbers, federal, state, local, no matter what, and that will lead to things getting better.

I think what he's saying is that institutional racism/supremacy along with systematic exploitation based on materialism and consumerism is not something you can vote in or out of office. The "government" doesn't exist as a separate immune entity apart from society and it's members. This assumes if individual races and classes were proportionally represented in local, state and federal government we would see automatic change for the better and I don't think thats true.

 

[RustyShackleford]

-Do you even realize that the purest form on capitalism is anarcho-capitalism? You don't like crony capitalism. Neither no most people, but your an anarchist, then you're implicating a big fan of capitalism

-Then end of slavery and cvil rights were crumbs?

This is why I don't take much of what you say serious. You act like racism and white supremacy is something that the "powers at be" tricked white people into believing.

A civil war had to be fought, decades long civil rights struggle had to happen, when the new deal passed black people where still cut out, people reject Obamacare mainly because it disproportionately helps minorities.

But all these things that made the world of difference in people's lives are "crumbs" to you.

This is why other people won't take your world view seriously, well especially me, because it completely glosses over the fact of white supremacy in this country. Not because they are "scared" to hear the truth

Yes, crumbs. Because all blacks did was integrate into a system that they never believed in in the first place. You fought to be a part of the white mans game. A game that is still economic and spiritual slavery, just more sophisticated. That is what you fail to realize.

Slavery is not something that should be spoken about in past tense. Here's a more tangible example for you, that somehow you will find a way to dismiss; that cell phone you're posting from is a direct manifestation of slavery. BLACK children in the Congo being forced to work upwards to 20 hours a day in a mine with no protective uniform, inhaling fumes that are killing them, for pennies on the dollar. All because of the corporate monopoly of the system you support. That you fund! C'mon man!

I won't even bring up Michael Jordan and the Prison Industrial Complex. Wouldn't want you to cancel your Eastbay Magazine subscription.

And if white supremacy isn't the cause of an external influence, are you implying that it is an internal issue? Because that's exactly what it sounds like you are saying.

On "crumbs"

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

This is straight up nonsense. Things are not as bad now as they were in slavery times.

Yes the means of oppression against black people have changed, but being in physically bondage is still the worst than the civil and economic oppression subsequent generations have faced

Saying things are gotten better, and saying things are still **** are no mutually exclusive.

Add to that, one can argue that during points in history that federal government have in the business on helping the minorities, and plenty of times in the business of hurting them. It is important we investigate what lend to those outcomes in either scenario.

I'm black, i live under a system of white supremacy, but I would never go up to someone that lived under Jim Crow and say "I have it just as bad as you", and I damb sure wouldn't go up to a former slave if that were possible and claim that the systemic racism I face is as bad and the physical bondage they went through

That would be ridiculous.

The fact you would even suggest such a thing says a lot. Are you doing this to make the claim that "everyone is being oppressed" the same, but that is plain and simple not true.

On that hypocritical attempt at a guilt trip

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

-I'm not gonna sit here and act like all of the goods and services I consume are completely conflict free. I try not to consume good that do, hence my struggle Nokia, but I wouldn't act like I don't add to the demand.

But

-Aren't you on the internet, talking to me on a PC or cell phone. Aren't you a big UFC fan, where do you watch the fights? Could I guess a TV possibly?

Do you really think all the materials in YOUR machines are, conflict, capitalist, and guilt free.

You want to claim my hands are dirty, like yours aren't too. You support the same machine you want to criticize me for "funding".

But lets look at solutions based on my world, or your world.

In mine if the government put in place a hard embargo, then the market would have to adjust, or make sure these workers in foreign workers, and that will lead to an increase in price, and either the consumes eat that, or demand for these goods shrink.

In your world, with no government, these private corporations will be allowed to be even more exploitative. And the only pressure to stop them will be the collectively altruism of its consumers. You really think that will work? That millions of people will organize and take this stand, even after there are lower prices (which no regulation can lead too)

So in your world, the solutions to problems are apparently solve through change in consumer actions. Or maybe a new company like Freephone comes along and provides the product the consumer want, since they get utility from have a problem that is conflict free, and steal the market. That sounds like capitalism to me brah

On the prison industrial complex

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

-One of the biggest issue with the prison industrial complex is private prisons. Private business that make money off the bodies of minorities, especially black men.

One of the reason Clinton's crime bill is so bad is that instead of the federal government expanding to take care of the supposed "problem", which would have made it easier to be rolled back.

He allowed (hell subsidized) local and private to participate in the snatching of black bodies. It was basically a jobs program for white supremacy

Local governments and private companies still had to opt into the system. Which they did, and they shaped it into what is has become.

On white supremacy

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

-Yes, rich white elites prey on the fears and anger of middle, lower, and poor whites. They construct the system of white supremacy, but these middle, lower, and poor have supported, hell championed it for generations.

White Supreacy is like a religion.

One generation indoctrinates the next. Yes they get blasted with the same hollow bigotted talking points, but they as adults choose to grab hold onto them tightly. Hell even championing them as they values. Just look at the Confederate Flag, even as national politicians moved away supporting it. Regular citizens still do

-When ending slavery would have been beneficial to poor whites, they didn't do it, they fought a war to defend it.

-When allowing the black middle class to flourish, expanding the tax base, and having more economic actors out there, some white fought to institute white supremacy, to deny black equal benefit under deal deal policies. Where against civil right legislation even when it benefited them

-Hated MLK when he was outchea fighting for white poor people too.

-Hated Obama for daring to give them health insurance, and slap away all of his demand side policies as "socialism/communism/Marxism

Yes the elites, and some politicians put this rhetoric out there, but that doesn't excuse the multiple times when private citizens took those talking points and ran with them.

So no, I don't think any person is born a racist, or white supremacist, or bigot. They are indoctrinated.

But I also know there are a ton of people that are more than happy to continue the tradition of white supremacy, even when it not in there best interest. See examples above

---------

But getting rid of the federal government doesn't mean white supremacy will go away.

There are a ton of private citizens that would love to expand it, so in the absence of the federal government, white supremacy will just go into overdrive.

Because lets just say a couple racist wanna snatch me my family and put them in a plantation because there is no federal government to stop them.

And I'm not gonna stop and think, welp, this is just as bad as the modern systemic racism I was facing before. No need to complain

And this is not me talking like the federal government is the cure to all the world's ills. But is a necessary institution, one black people sadly need around to access their right

------Even though we agree on a few of the problems facing the public, it is obvious we don't agree on everything.

And we are way off on the solution

I want to work towards social democracy, with a progressive well functioning federal government. And having everyone actively involved in the political process is a way to accomplish that

I also feel this is best for the well being of most people in this country. I'm not arguing it is will be a cure all, voting or social democracy.

But it is a step in the right direction. So that is why I'm supporting Bernard Sanders, instead of plotting a revolution. Because even if I wish either one into existence.

Living in Bernie Sander's world, with a larger federal government, seems wayyyy better than a world without one, where white supremacy is allowed to flourish with even less oversight.

----

Edit: sorry for the typos, typed this fast. While I probably come off combative, I'm truly not trying to be. I not trying to disparage your world view, I just disagree with it

Unless I see you riding for Conor in the MMA htread, then we got beef

 

[RustyShackleford]

Obeezy swerved Raul , he knew if he did the champ pose, the GOP would have it all over the place

 

[Master Zik]

I knew it was good to lay off the Belgium terrorist attack thread for a bit.

That dude just kept lengthening his noose.

 

[zapatohead408]

My dude Ninjahood is back.

Hope all is well in da Heightz.