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***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
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I am not trusting a 5 second clip by a Bernie Sanders fan Twitter account, especially when some of his supporters want to distract from his recent bad answers.
A full clip to get the full context of the poin she was trying to make is needed.
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To quote our President Elect and Putin Appointee, black unemployment is at an all time low! Therefore, connecting the dots, cops shooting black men is also at an all time low! If that doesn't yell that minorities of all races should be voting for 4 more Trump presidential terms, I dont know what does.
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aepps20
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Rather than edit clips shouldn't Bern Bros (not Bernie Supporters) tell him to stop making dumb statements on race?
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Of course she was saying the exact opposite of what that Twitter post tried to accuse her of
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Of course she was saying the exact opposite of what that Twitter post tried to accuse her of
Her campaign obviously losing steam, there are people on the left who dislike her, etc but it's so apparent to me that Kamala is a part of the solution in this country.
She might not be right for the office of President but you'll have a hard time convincing me that our national policies and legislation aren't improved with her in the mix.
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I think Kamala has ran a bad campaign generally, has done some dumb ****, and is not good at selling herself. There are things she has done in the past that greatly upset me.
However, it is extremely troubling how she has been treated during the primary. Some **** she has had to deal with has been unfair, ridiculous, and even disgusting.
Like serious, with Bernie and Biden in the field, it is Harris that gets the most shade for previously indulging in the tough on crime nonsense. All these white people in the field running around trying to show how newly woke they are, but Harris has to measure herself because if she sounds too race conscious white moderates will punish her in a way they won't do for other candidates.
I tell folk, if you are on the left and think Kamala Harris is your enemy, you are delusional.
aepps20
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I'm left of alt right and I think Libs like yourself and Kamala the Cop Harris are my enemies.
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- The first tweet here is an example of pretty much the exact thing many of you all just (justifiably) called out that Bernie Bro for doing to Kamala Harris—a deliberately manufactured misrepresentation of Bernie's position. I guess no one caught this one, though, huh? Quite unbelievable, that!
- His comments about the overrepresentation of black folks in prison for nonviolent drug offenses being due to the fact that most drug dealers are black is obviously erroneous and extremely problematic. Bernie subsequently apologized.
- In the second video clip, Bernie argued that Jesse Jackson's presidential campaign wasn't getting more traction primarily because he was espousing progressive policies, not because he was black. He also stated he thought that a more conventional, business-friendly black politician could succeed as a presidential candidate. And, lo and behold, his prediction proved prescient with the 2008 election of Barack Obama. His point about class inequality being the defining fault line in American society can be debated but doesn't automatically represent "tone-deafness" or "racial insensitivity" or whatever the hell else people who want to paint him as engaging in bad faith might accuse him of. The most inaccurate part of the clip was his connecting MLK's turn against the Vietnam War and toward explicitly class-based organizing as precipitating the FBI's surveillance (since they had already been surveilling him for years at that point). It is true, however, that King lost many, if not most, of his allies—both black and white—from the civil rights campaigns of the early to mid-1960s by taking those stances.
- In his comment next to the Lisa Simpson mad face, Bernie says that he's going to tax billionaires in order to "create millions of jobs for low-income kids so that they're not hanging out on street corners." And people are apparently taking issue with this somehow? LOL.
- Regarding the Abrams and Gillum comments, I disagree with his statement that being uncomfortable voting for a black candidate doesn't make you racist. But what I take from his comments is that every person who didn't vote for one of those candidates isn't necessarily an irredeemable racist. This message seems apparent in the second half of his quote where he says "I think next time around, by the way, it will be a lot easier for them to do that [vote for them]." So I disagree with what he said, though I think he was trying to get at something important. And I would certainly prefer that approach to the common notion spread in this thread and throughout conventional liberal media that working-class whites are irredeemable racists. He also offered pretty effusive praise for both Abrams and Gillum in that article.
I don't have a problem calling Bernie or whoever else out on their ********, as in my response to the clip
RustyShackleford
posted the other day as well as my responses above. But let's make sure it's ******** first before piling on. Y'all seem to expect that with respect to discussions of most other candidates...
elpablo21
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1. The Harris clip was like 5 seconds, Bernie's clip was just over a minute and a half. Harris was being criticized for a sentiment she didn't even come close to saying, her words were completely misrepresented. The first part of Bernie comment is what people have issue with. Him putting responsibility for not getting shot on potential victimsSo, after careful analysis, all of this amounts to... what, exactly?
- The first tweet here is an example of pretty much the exact thing many of you all just (justifiably) called out that Bernie Bro for doing to Kamala Harris—a deliberately manufactured misrepresentation of Bernie's position. I guess no one caught this one, though, huh? Quite unbelievable, that!
- His comments about the overrepresentation of black folks in prison for nonviolent drug offenses being due to the fact that most drug dealers are black is obviously erroneous and extremely problematic. Bernie subsequently apologized.
- In the second video clip, Bernie argued that Jesse Jackson's presidential campaign wasn't getting more traction primarily because he was espousing progressive policies, not because he was black. He also stated he thought that a more conventional, business-friendly black politician could succeed as a presidential candidate. And, lo and behold, his prediction proved prescient with the 2008 election of Barack Obama. His point about class inequality being the defining fault line in American society can be debated but doesn't automatically represent "tone-deafness" or "racial insensitivity" or whatever the hell else people who want to paint him as engaging in bad faith might accuse him of. The most inaccurate part of the clip was his connecting MLK's turn against the Vietnam War and toward explicitly class-based organizing as precipitating the FBI's surveillance (since they had already been surveilling him for years at that point). It is true, however, that King lost many, if not most, of his allies—both black and white—from the civil rights campaigns of the early to mid-1960s by taking those stances.
- In his comment next to the Lisa Simpson mad face, Bernie says that he's going to tax billionaires in order to "create millions of jobs for low-income kids so that they're not hanging out on street corners." And people are apparently taking issue with this somehow? LOL.
- Regarding the Abrams and Gillum comments, I disagree with his statement that being uncomfortable voting for a black candidate doesn't make you racist. But what I take from his comments is that every person who didn't vote for one of those candidates isn't necessarily an irredeemable racist. This message seems apparent in the second half of his quote where he says "I think next time around, by the way, it will be a lot easier for them to do that [vote for them]." So I disagree with what he said, though I think he was trying to get at something important. And I would certainly prefer that approach to the common notion spread in this thread and throughout conventional liberal media that working-class whites are irredeemable racists. He also offered pretty effusive praise for both Abrams and Gillum in that article.
I don't have a problem calling Bernie or whoever else out on their bull****, as in my response to the clip
It is a reach to imply people are being hypocrites for not liking the first part of Bernie comment, and calling out someone for completely misrepresenting Harris's words.
2. He apologized, good for him.. It doesn't negate the bad take
3. I disagree with you Obama example but I am not gonna go down that rabbit hole with you. The dynamics at play in 2008 is not something I think you can cleanly point to. More importantly, Sanders did not say business friendly, he said conservative black candidate.
As a counterpoint I would like to bring up the the GOP, especially Ford was considering Edward Brooke as a VP candidate and chose not to go that route because he was a moderate that was for civil rights and party moderates felt their grip on the party was being lost to conservatives, so they had to appease them in some way. Conservatives like Reagan that got their in by riding the wave of white resentment.
So yeah, I think Bernie is downplaying the impact of race in politics and thinks everything always circles back to class, like he always does, and that's people issue. I will say this, Sanders seems to have talked more honestly about race in the 1980s that he did in later parts of his career.
4. People are taking issue with it because he says that how he will be an improve race relations under Obama. It is not only ignores basic civics, implies something false about Obama, but also it implies that the racial tension that exists in this country, and even flared up under Obama, is somehow mainly a matter of economics.
Racial tensions in America, and under Obama, were driven by ****** white people, I don't think this is even debatable. With that given, look at all the ways someone can read Sanders comment:
At best his comment is erasing race from a question specifically about race, which is problematic.
He is saying improving the economic standing of poor whites will lower racial tensions, which is problematic because it is not really true.
Improving the economic standing of minorities will make white people chill, which is also problematic because it lets white folk off the hook for their nonsense.
The honest answer to the question is, I'm white, Obama is black, so many more white people will be more comfortable with me running things. The implication that white supremacy swelled under Obama because he was not left enough on economic is top tier nonsense that Bernie has been implying for years. He is flat wrong on this.
5. So what if he praised Abrams and Gilliam, that is not people's beef with that comment. Everyone knows he supported them. It was him gain excusing racism by problematic white voters. Him excusing Trump voters of their racism was an issue people, especially in here, had with him too.
It points to a pattern of behavior that people find problematic, and people are frustrated with it.
At a minimum if someone keeps saying stupid ****, even if they apologize, maybe folk are tired of them doing.
Like geez, if Bernie has hinting at something else, or alluding to a grander point, how about he just ******* make the point instead of making people listen to his inarticulate bad takes over and over and over. Then having to apologize and clarify later.
It seems while you view each instance in isolation, others that are not supporters of Sanders view his bad takes as a pattern of problematic behavior. So naturally they will have a stronger reaction to stuff than you. You see these as a few instances that are greatly outweigh by his other stellar instances. Others view them as rhetoric that undermines this other better rhetoric.
Yes you have criticized Sanders too, but you seem to always take issue that people in here don't put the a more innocuous interpretation on his bad takes, and give him the benefit of the doubt time and time again.
People's beefs with Bernie are legit at the end of the day.
Like if Democratic voters are demanding national Dems do better, why can't the same demands be made of Bernie. Why must it somehow be on balance with criticism of others for it to be deemed valid or reasonable?
Either way, the criticism of Sanders for all the video was so extremely mild, so I don't see why there is an issue.
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It's been a sobering month. As
aepps20
eloquently said a couple days ago, Donald Trump has failed the Coal Gang. The coal mines are drying up and my lungs are still pink.After many long nights of deep introspection, Coal Gang has come to the conclusion that we can no longer support someone like Donald Trump for president. Instead, we must look across the aisle for someone who is a visionary and someone who can rescue this country. Yes, that's right, we are now officially announcing an endorsement of a Libbie Dimocrat for president in 2020. That candidate?
TULSI GABBARD, of course.
She brings the best of both worlds, and by both worlds I mean Donald Trump crossed with Jill Stein. She is beautiful, bold, and bright, and she has America's best interests somewhere in her top 10 list.
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That clip thing is all a ploy by the Democratic establishment led by Hillary to make Bernie supporters look bad. They are perfect, better than you and would never stoop to such lowly tactics.
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And I would like to make the point I was doing to make previously about Sanders comment to the student.
The night I almost shot in the back of my head by a cop, the NYPD was violating my constitutional rights, I should not have to respect that. I was dressed in a suit and being as polite as I can be and I was still being manhandled and threaten.
If he was trying to say he people should do whatever they can to get out the situation alive, even though those actions may be uncomfortable to do, and is unfair to ask of potential victims, then he did a poor job of saying that.
Even with the second half of the comment (which is a better point) the first half comes off like he is making a "don't wear that dress if you don't want to get raped" argument.
The night I almost shot in the back of my head by a cop, the NYPD was violating my constitutional rights, I should not have to respect that. I was dressed in a suit and being as polite as I can be and I was still being manhandled and threaten.
If he was trying to say he people should do whatever they can to get out the situation alive, even though those actions may be uncomfortable to do, and is unfair to ask of potential victims, then he did a poor job of saying that.
Even with the second half of the comment (which is a better point) the first half comes off like he is making a "don't wear that dress if you don't want to get raped" argument.
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GDP grew 1.9%. So where’s this 4% growth again which was promised?
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130122
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rupublicanz b
dacomeup
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"Close it out" like it's Game 7
Libbies not ready for Game 7 Dapper Don
Libbies not ready for Game 7 Dapper Don
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