***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[aepps20]

You Libs are PATHETIC. osh kosh bosh Is 100% correct but you can't handle it. Just a few months ago you scums were tag teaming fools. osh kosh bosh You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

vast majority of spending comes from salary and pensions.

doesnt mean feeing up a couple hundred grand cant be done with low hanging fruit.

 

[getback]

Police LITERALLY do the overtime scam that McNulty did in the Wire

Imagine thinking they need more funding?

I'd rather cut funding to shake up their little hornet nest. Watching cops roll on one another and fight for OT scraps would be hilarious.

 

[dwalk31]

You want more accountable police? that costs money.

You want more diverse police force that lives in the neighborhood? that costs money.


many of your stated problems with the police actually cost more money not less.

The best argument is to reduce the role of police by limiting the size and scope of police departments.

You can simultaneously reduce the responsibilities of police while reducing funding.

That makes more sense than dumping a greater amount of money into a system that continuously fails black people.

 

[frshstunna]

How have any increases in police budgets worked out for Black people in the history of this country so far? But alas, you of course have the perfect plan for this one to work out well? How convenient.

In Camden, NJ consistently one of the most dangerous cities in the country they really did “defund” and rebuild the police...The results have been nothing but positive for them so far...But Maple Marvin won’t talk bout **** like that tho cuz that don’t fit the negative, contrarian vibes

 

[osh kosh bosh]

How have any increases in police budgets worked out for Black people in the history of this country so far? But alas, you of course have the perfect plan for this one to work out well? How convenient.

in Richmond, va apparently has improved policing,
fired a bunch of cops, hired a bunch of new ones and invested in body cams and other police accountability measures

while im sure it's not a panacea, it's an improvement and they didn't cut funding or decrease the size of the police force.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

In Camden, NJ consistently one of the most dangerous cities in the country they really did “defund” and rebuild the police...The results have been nothing but positive for them so far...But Maple Marvin won’t talk bout **** like that tho cuz that don’t fit the negative, contrarian vibes

turns out the story is more complicated.

looks like they increased the size of the police force, and then after pressure from activists adopted measures to decrease the use of force.

no defunding tho.

 

[reformeDWS]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

doesnt mean feeing up a couple hundred grand cant be done with low hanging fruit.

if can agree with this.

 

[getback]

in Richmond, va apparently has improved policing,
fired a bunch of cops, hired a bunch of new ones and invested in body cams and other police accountability measures

while im sure it's not a panacea, it's an improvement and they didn't cut funding or decrease the size of the police force.

So bribe Captains with more money to do their jobs?

Why they need more money to do what they already should be doing? It's not rocket science. Most of them just choose to look the other way. Cops that don't get put in the basement or transferred to be someone else's problem.

I'd rather pay an independent panel and lawyers to prosecute cops than I would bump funding for people to do the job they SWORE they'd do.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Police LITERALLY do the overtime scam that McNulty did in the Wire

Imagine thinking they need more funding?

I'd rather cut funding to shake up their little hornet nest. Watching cops roll on one another and fight for OT scraps would be hilarious.

if your goal is some kind of cosmic justice then okay i won't argue with you.

not gunna improve policing tho.

 

[frshstunna]

turns out the story is more complicated.

looks like they increased the size of the police force, and then after pressure from activists adopted measures to decrease the use of force.

no defunding tho.

Naw They got rid of the union, and re hired police at lower salaries and less money on benefits n fighting the union so therefore being able to higher more officers...You might wanna read more into it, cuz they def took cut bread from an already terrible budget to make it happen, they never gave the police MORE money for improvement

What everybody saying is the boys already have more than enough money to make it work, they just choose not to...The problems won’t be solved by an increase in funding

 

[reformeDWS]

if your goal is some kind of cosmic justice then okay i won't argue with you.

not gunna improve policing tho.

What do you think the fundamental purpose of police is?

 

[RustyShackleford]

turns out the story is more complicated.

looks like they increased the size of the police force, and then after pressure from activists adopted measures to decrease the use of force.

no defunding tho.

-Doesn't this also count as a data point as to how increasing the size of the police force can backfire?

-And the same activists you were flippantly ****ted on weeks ago are the ones that applied pressure to make things better.

I mean you are using this info to pushback on someone else, but does any of it make you reflect on some of your positions?

 

[RustyShackleford]

The best argument is to reduce the role of police by limiting the size and scope of police departments.

You can simultaneously reduce the responsibilities of police while reducing funding.

That makes more sense than dumping a greater amount of money into a system that continuously fails black people.

KHUFU look at ya mans trying to sneak into the cookout.

 

[frshstunna]

-Doesn't this also count as a data point as to how increasing the size of the police force can backfire?

-And the same activists you were flippantly ****ted on weeks ago are the ones that applied pressure to make things better.

I mean you are using this info to pushback on someone else, but does any of it make you reflect on some of your positions?

Camden didn’t turn around by putting more money into it, that’s where yo not being clear with his argument...They tore down and restructured how they did things, while cutting pay so they can bring on more officers

You know what they would call a cut in police pay these days, “Defunding”

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Naw They got rid of the union, and re hired police at lower salaries and less money on benefits n fighting the union so therefore being able to higher more officers...You might wanna read more into it, cuz they def took cut bread from an already terrible budget to make it happen

i don't think that's accurate, budget i believe still increased after disbanding the pervious department.

but hey look if you can crush the union to the point where you can hire more officers for less money and fire older ones fine go ahead i can roll with that.
but i doubt the defund the police crowd will be happy...


looks like they were forced the make cuts in 2010...didn't go so well.

 

[dacomeup]

in Richmond, va apparently has improved policing,
fired a bunch of cops, hired a bunch of new ones and invested in body cams and other police accountability measures

while im sure it's not a panacea, it's an improvement and they didn't cut funding or decrease the size of the police force.

That’s the totality of factors to determine policing has improved? Nothing from the actual people who live there? What about incidents of force against citizens?

And again, this does nothing to address the root of violent crime. This is just added surveillance.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

-Doesn't this also count as a data point as to how increasing the size of the police force can backfire?

-And the same activists you were flippantly ****ted on weeks ago are the ones that applied pressure to make things better.

I mean you are using this info to pushback on someone else, but does any of it make you reflect on some of your positions?

Well

1. i don't believe in broken windows policing, and I don't believe in indiscriminately increasing the budgets. so i wouldn't be in favor of that.

ive said exactly what I would want multiple times.

-more money to recruit a more diverse force.
-money to fire or encourage older bad cops to retire.
-more money to hire and recruit more detectives. more resources devoted to solving crimes.
-more cops doing stuff proven to reduce crimes like patrols. (not harrassing people)
-and greater oversight for and accountability for departments that try to use minority communities as ATMs

and i just don't see how this wouldn't cost more money not less.

like if you could make a deal with the unions, more money but it's way way way easier to fire you you wouldn't take that deal? I would.


2. I heaped tons of praise on Black Lives Matter, people generally underrated how effect the movement has been, I've made posts to the effect before.
i just think "defund the police" specifically is dumb. i didn't say all activism is bad. I don't like defund the police because i think its a dumb idea.

 

[KHUFU]

Speaking of a turn...

AG Bill Barr 'is considering quitting before Trump leaves office' because he is 'furious over president's bullying' after he said DOJ found no widespread election fraud

• Attorney General William Barr is considering stepping down before President Trump's term ends in January
• Barr may hand in his resignation before the end of the year, The New York Times reported on Sunday night
• Barr has generally backed Trump throughout his tenure but said last week that the Justice Department had not found any evidence of widespread voter fraud
• Barr said the Justice Department has 'not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election'
• Source told the Times that the attorney general's decision was not affected by Trump and that he had begun considering his departure a week before
• Last week, a reporter asked Trump if he still had confidence in Barr, to which Trump replied, 'Ask me that in a number of weeks from now'

Attorney General Barr considering leaving before Trump leaves office

Attorney General William Barr is considering stepping down before President Trump's term ends next month. There is a possibility Barr could announce his departure before the end of the year.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[osh kosh bosh]

That’s the totality of factors to determine policing has improved? Nothing from the actual people who live there? What about incidents of force against citizens?

And again, this does nothing to address the root of violent crime. This is just added surveillance.

well stats on violent crime and total arrests did fall.

if you find stats showing use of force was up id love to see it.



i think we can all agree we want better more accountable police, and less crime and better investment in social services.

I just think it costs money.

 

[Mark Antony]

Camden didn’t turn around by putting more money into it, that’s where yo not being clear with his argument...They tore down and restructured how they did things, while cutting pay so they can bring on more officers

You know what they would call a cut in police pay these days, “Defunding”

You mean they took money from certain areas, reallocated to other more effective things? That's crazy.

 

[Mark Antony]

well stats on violent crime and total arrests did fall.

if you find stats showing use of force was up id love to see it.



i think we can all agree we want better more accountable police, and less crime and better investment in social services.

I just think it costs money.

So give them more money to accomplish these things and leave the things that don't to still drain funds?

 

[frshstunna]

You mean they took money from certain areas, reallocated to other more effective things? That's crazy.

They basically said if you wanna be a cop in Camden you’ll take less money to do it and won’t be protected by a union..N they still had more folks sign up for the job and crime went down, seems like they didn’t have to pump more bread into the department or need all the extra bs to get the job done

Think bout it, they cut salaries and more cats signed up for the job and did it better, goes against everything yo been saying in here