- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,507
I love it...now it devolves into posting pictures and memes.
Obviously the best kind of evidence.
Obviously the best kind of evidence.
***Official Political Discussion Thread***
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rico x hood,
- Start date
- Dec 27, 2014
- 35,522
- 78,110
policy prescriptions
almost like the military and police
have the same goals
in different locations
I'm not seeing any drones though.
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,507
Like I said. yall got it. defund the police yada yada or whatever.
I hope one day you get what you want, get rid of couple of humvees and then pay for medicare for all. or whatever yall think will happen.
I hope one day you get what you want, get rid of couple of humvees and then pay for medicare for all. or whatever yall think will happen.
- Aug 22, 2012
- 8,757
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Yes, there are countless cities/counties in this country (for a variety of reasons) that are over funded AND overstaffed. In short, cutting officers would be a net benefit to the county.
Perfect example: Bloomington Minnesota: A city which is vastly over funded due to Mall of America being within their city lines. What does this mean? ALOT of traffic stops and fines handed out to poor people to justify their labor.
While of course this is a unique scenario, there are scenarios like this all over the country....
Also, do you agree there IS a breakeven point? In other words, do you believe there is such a thing as too many police officers? Additionally, what is your argument for increased funding? What history can any department provide for properly allocating their funds for enhanced programs that required more dollars. Cultural changes take time not money.....
- Dec 27, 2014
- 35,522
- 78,110
I love it...now it devolves into posting pictures and memes.
Obviously the best kind of evidence.
It's not a picture. It's a book. You read it. I know it requires a little more effort than reading than a poll about a small town police station in Kentucky. But if you want to learn instead of assume.
- Nov 3, 2011
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************* look like commandos. We got a dummy saying "gIvE dEm mOReZ mOnIEs" claiming it will fix policing. NYC police are probably some of the best paid police in the nation, yet they are still murdering people by asphyxiation for selling loosies and performing home invasions to commit murder because "You look like a suspect in a case" aka walking while black. But sure, giving them more money will fix this.
policy prescriptions
almost like the military and police
have the same goals
in different locations
- Aug 31, 2012
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- 35,120
yah sure this is what I said.
if you need to make up strawmen to argue against, i probabaly says something about your own position.
Self awareness: not even once.
- Dec 15, 2012
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America's 'most dangerous city' defunded its police department 7 years ago. It's been a stunning success.
What happens when the police get "defunded."
www.upworthy.com
What an untenable position. Obviously because we have done something one way for decades with very little positive evidence to show for it, we should keep doing it. Just keep sending those police departments a blank check so they can keep hiring more officers, or in most cases, pay more in overtime to existing officers which produce little incremental improvements at a cost that rises exponentially.
"If we have more police we have less crime" ~ man says while ignoring the fact that police department sizes have increased over the last decade with a 100% increase in funding to said departments, but crime has not decreased.
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,507
i've answered these questions countless time in this thread. i don't wanna clog this thread by continuing to repeat myself.
ill only say, yes theres a brek even point, but given the recent uptick in crime in cities I don't think we've reached it.
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,507
America's 'most dangerous city' defunded its police department 7 years ago. It's been a stunning success.
What happens when the police get "defunded."
What an untenable position. Obviously because we have done something one way for decades with very little positive evidence to show for it, we should keep doing it. Just keep sending those police departments a blank check so they can keep hiring more officers, or in most cases, pay more in overtime to existing officers which produce little incremental improvements at a cost that rises exponentially.
"If we have more police we have less crime" ~ man says while ignoring the fact that police department sizes have increased over the last decade with a 100% increase in funding to said departments, but crime has not decreased.
1. camden increased the total size of the dpartment after they disbanded it.
2. yah but i didn't say give the police a blank check.
- Jul 20, 2009
- 64,968
- 196,209
No, you are whining. Very much so.Im not winning im making a point.
Man people have accepted defund the police with astonishingly little scrutiny and have decided to focus their ire on me.
fine if you want to, i have no problem rebutting shoddy claims.
Famb you came in here loud, proud, and flippant because some white people at work pissed you off in Canada, to rant to the NT Political Thread (which happens to be filled with a lot black people in the US).
It has been damn near a month we have been on this. Now after a month, you are complaining why aren't people in here scrutinizing the folk you have such a massive unnecessary hang-up about, at the same level they are scrutinizing the dude that felt it necessary to run in the online discussion thread they are reading, to play internet ******* at the first chance he saw the opportunity. Really, that your beef now?
Everything you have accused others of, you have done: the straw-manning, the magical thinking, the constantly restating your argument in a more focused and sanitary manner as a way to avoid people calling you out. For the past few weeks, you have basically been a Nigerian Sam Harris in here. Hell, you have seemingly kept this argument going for extra weeks because you transitioned one complaint you couldn't back up with evidence to another you thought you could. The only problem is that your argument has holes in it too, and it relies on continuous straw-manning the other side.
As someone that has done social science research, still reads a ton of it now, still works on econometric models, at this point in time, beyond the slogan I think the arguments most of the people using adopted the defund the police slogan have their merits. It is not some robust policy prescription to solve all of policing. But the policy goal they are really trying to achieve and the means they could achieve it seems logical. The reason there are not all these studies back up their ideas is that they have not been implemented on a large enough scale, and studied over an extended period of time. When you point out other interventions that have helped, it really doesn't undercut their argument. Yes, there are interventions that cost money that could lower misconduct, but those interventions have had a longer observation period. Secondly, it is important to repeat, the only reason the "defund' part in Defund the Police is because municipal, state, and the federal government have failed to protect other social services from deep cuts. Services that could lower citizens' interactions with the police, and possibly help lower crime with the downstream effects. All while police budgets have grown, and grown.
I have not gotten to the part where this added pressure has been leveraged to force a discussion on what exactly is in those police budgets.
You want to label me as intellectually lazy for my position of being sympathetic to those people, go ******* ahead. Because I have yet to hear a compelling argument, even from you, that has changed my mind.
Like, most people interested in improving police, in all areas, are not hung up slogans or married to only one group of policy interventions. You are ranting about a slogan and a set of ideas that are more represented in online spaces, than they are in the city government town halls. Yet, we are the ones in an echo chamber? That's rich.
Dude, that post is some Delk level ****. With some Ninjahood level of lack of self-awareness sprinkled on top.
-BTW, the reason I brought up you having to realize that dudes in here have been victims of police harassment (and are still targets) is not to make you agree with any position, especially one you don't agree with. It was for you to stop, think, and read the room. So before you type **** like accusing people opinion of being the way it is because NT leans young and educated (which really came off as you trying to conflate the motivations of dudes in here with white progressive that piss you off) or an echo chamber, then stand back in amazement when the blowback comes.
Last edited:
- Jul 20, 2009
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- Aug 11, 2012
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Being “right” is more important than some self reflection and reading, understanding. Instead of going that, get defensive...fall into ego.
This is all I see these days lol.
This is all I see these days lol.
- Aug 2, 2006
- 34,182
- 29,507
No, you are whining. Very much so.
Famb you came in here loud, proud, and flippant because some white people at work pissed you off in Canada, to rant to the NT Political Thread (which happens to be filled with a lot black people in the US).
It has been damn near a month we have been on this. Now after a month, you are complaining why aren't people in here scrutinizing the folk you have such a massive unnecessary hang-up about, at the same level they are scrutinizing the dude that felt it necessary to run in the online discussion thread they are reading, to play internet ******* at the first chance he saw the opportunity. Really, that your beef now?
Everything you have accused others of, you have done: the straw-manning, the magical thinking, the constantly restating your argument in a more focused and sanitary manner as a way to avoid people calling you out. For the past few weeks, you have basically been a Nigerian Sam Harris in here. Hell, you have seemingly kept this argument going for extra weeks because you transitioned one complaint you couldn't back up with evidence to another you thought you could. The only problem is that your argument has holes in it too, and it relies on continuous straw-manning the other side.
As someone that has done social science research, still reads a ton of it now, still works on econometric models, at this point in time, beyond the slogan I think the arguments most of the people using adopted the defund the police slogan have their merits. It is not some robust policy prescription to solve all of policing. But the policy goal they are really trying to achieve and the means they could achieve it seems logical. The reason there are not all these studies back up their ideas is that they have not been implemented on a large enough scale, and studied over an extended period of time. When you point out other interventions that have helped, it really doesn't undercut their argument. Yes, there are interventions that cost money that could lower misconduct, but those interventions have had a longer observation period. Secondly, it is important to repeat, the only reason the "defund' part in Defund the Police is because municipal, state, and the federal government have failed to protect other social services from deep cuts. Services that could lower citizens' interactions with the police, and possibly help lower crime with the downstream effects. All while police budgets have grown, and grown.
I have not gotten to the part where this added pressure has been leveraged to force a discussion on what exactly is in those police budgets.
You want to label me as intellectually lazy for my position of being sympathetic to those people, go ****ing ahead.
Even then, most people interested in improving police, in all areas, are not hung up slogans or married to only one group of policy interventions. You are ranting about a slogan and a set of ideas that are more represented in online spaces, than they are in the city government town halls. Yet, we are the ones in an echo chamber? That's rich.
Dude, that is some Delk level ****. With some Ninjahood level of lack of self-awareness sprinkled on top.
-BTW, the reason I brought up you having to realize that dudes in here have been victims of police harassment (and are still targets) is not to make you agree with any position, especially one you don't agree with. It was for you to stop, think, and read the room. So before you type **** like accusing people opinion of being the way it is because NT leans young and educated (which really came off as you trying to conflate the motivations of dudes in here with white progressive that piss you off) or an echo chamber, then stand back in amazement when the blowback comes.
yah i don't agree with your characterizations or the mind reading. but ill agree this has gone on too long.
- Aug 2, 2006
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Amazing
This whole thing started because you literally didn't do this.
yah hard disagree.
but there is not point going on with this.
- Jul 20, 2009
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Could you cite me the social science research that said the use of the defund the police slogan by some activist cost the Dems the election?
Because trying to push that claim is how this whole **** kicked off with you.
- Dec 13, 2018
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I think that this is a fantastic pic. Obama invited all former living Presidents to the White House, simply to pick their brains.
elpablo21
Supporter
- Feb 11, 2008
- 106,492
- 196,037
- Aug 2, 2008
- 37,571
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- Aug 2, 2006
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yah I don't agree, that opinion was based polling data, and the results of the election. You don't need to agree with conclusions I drew. you can say maybe I was overreading the data we have. but I don't agree that it was some claim i made devoid of evidence.
- Jul 16, 2017
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Osh the new Delk
- Aug 2, 2006
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like i said this is all totally pointless as
im just repeating myself at this point. I've written a mind numbing amount of words on the subject
and if yall aint convinced then i say this sincerely; hopefully im wrong and it all works out for you guys.
im just repeating myself at this point. I've written a mind numbing amount of words on the subject
and if yall aint convinced then i say this sincerely; hopefully im wrong and it all works out for you guys.
- Jan 30, 2010
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Baltimore is like the 20th largest city in the country but top 5 in Police per capita...All these cops in the city resulted in 300+ murders a year (like only 15% solved in a good year), and a known rep as one of the most grimiest departments in the nation...More funding n boys on the street don’t seem to be fixing crime issues there...Most of the high crime places in the USA already have big budgets n lots of police around, but that’s probly not one of the stats that yo looked up for his arguments
- Jul 18, 2013
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- Jul 20, 2009
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You didn't have the evidence that backed up your point because the polling data you had was before the election
My main argument against you was not that I just disagreed, but that the evidence your were presenting couldn't back up your claim like you were arguing.
So it was conjecture plain and ******* simple.
