Official Umar Johnson Thread

[KHUFU]

If Dr. King is your model of success, then by all means go right ahead in using him. However, Dr. is not the model of success for many of us who saw his fatal flaw, the very one that got him killed.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

If Dr. King is your model of success, then by all means go right ahead in using him. However, Dr. is not the model of success for many of us who saw his fatal flaw, the very one that got him killed.

I don’t think it’s about being a model for success, and more so an example of someone being christian and being undeniably pro black. For many, being pro black is about wanting black People to be able to live thrive unencumbered by their blackness without having to shed that identity. I fully recognize for you it’s deeper, and more spiritual than that. I think your insight and perspective is one of insight and that needs be heard. What Im saying is that just because someone may not be in 100% alignment with your spiritually doesn’t mean that they aren’t for black freedom flourishing. I think what @htg designs was pointing out is that Christianity and being pro black can coexist without being oxymoronic. But I suppose there’s some room for subjectivity depending on how your perceive or practice Christianity and what you think being pro black means

 

[KHUFU]

I don’t think it’s about being a model for success, and more so an example of someone being christian and being undeniably pro black. For many, being pro black is about wanting black People to be able to live thrive unencumbered by their blackness without having to shed that identity. I fully recognize for you it’s deeper, and more spiritual than that. I think your insight and perspective is one of insight and that needs be heard. What Im saying is that just because someone may not be in 100% alignment with your spiritually doesn’t mean that they aren’t for black freedom flourishing.

I appreciate that. My issue lies in the forgiveness part. If you believe that christ existed, then you must believe that your ancestors existed, and then are also a part of your lives as well. What christianity has done is to strip away that foundation, leaving Jesus the last one standing, for which is wrong. Jesus wasn't on those slave ships. In fact, the pope asked both Jesus and the catholic god to bless those ships for safe passage for those at the helm, not those who were considered cargo.
Even Thomas Jefferson begged the question...I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.

I err on the side of another belief, the god that looks like me, one that has my best interests.

 

[layziegunts]

If Dr. King is your model of success, then by all means go right ahead in using him. However, Dr. is not the model of success for many of us who saw his fatal flaw, the very one that got him killed.

We have a winner here guys

 

[layziegunts]

I think what @htg designs was pointing out is that Christianity and being pro black can coexist without being oxymoronic. But I suppose there’s some room for subjectivity depending on how your perceive or practice Christianity and wha

MLK wasnt pro-black, he was pro-humanity. He wasnt for the upliftment for black people, he was more in tuned with us fitting in. MLK was about integration

while REAL PRO-BLACK like Garvey, Malcolm X, etc was for complete independence.

Trust me, I like MLK for what he has, but pro-black he wasnt.

 

[KHUFU]

MLK wasnt pro-black, he was pro-humanity. He wasnt for the upliftment for black people, he was more in tuned with us fitting in. MLK was about integration

while REAL PRO-BLACK like Garvey, Malcolm X, etc was for complete independence.

Trust me, I like MLK for what he has, but pro-black he wasnt.

Yeah, he wanted to be American. He wanted to save White people from themselves....

Actor/activist, Harry Belafonte, shared a similar moment about his friend. “Midway through the Civil Rights Movement, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. realized that the struggle for integration would ultimately become a struggle for economic rights,” Belafonte reflected. “I remember the last time we were together, at my home, shortly before he was murdered. He seemed quite agitated and preoccupied, and I asked him what the problem was?”

According to Belafonte, King responded, “I’ve come upon something that disturbs me deeply. We have fought hard and long for integration, as I believe we should have, and I know we will win, but I have come to believe that we are integrating into a burning house. I’m afraid that America has lost the moral vision she may have had, and I’m afraid that even as we integrate, we are walking into a place that does not understand that this nation needs to be deeply concerned with the plight of the poor and disenfranchised. Until we commit ourselves to ensuring that the underclass is given justice and opportunity, we will continue to perpetuate the anger and violence that tears the soul of this nation. I fear I am integrating my people into a burning house.”

Belafonte added, “That statement took me aback. It was the last thing I would have expected to hear, considering the nature of our struggle.”

Belafonte said he asked King, “What should we do?” and King replied that we should, “become the firemen.” King said, “Let us not stand by and let the house burn.”
http://amsterdamnews.com/news/2017/jan/12/dr-martin-luther-king-jr-i-fear-i-am-integrating-m/

 

[layziegunts]

MLK was about holding white peoples hands in harmony and go singing in church, thats not Pro-Black.

One of his most profound quotes towards the end of his life was "Im afraid all ive done is lead my people into a burning building" once he realized that things were too late.

 

[layziegunts]

KHUFU we posted the same thing literally at the same time bro.

Umar would be proud (lol)

 

[KHUFU]

KHUFU we posted the same thing literally at the same time bro.

Umar would be proud (lol)

lol! Tell Umar to bone up on misogyny and sexism, then I would be able to hear more of what he is trying to say!

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I appreciate that. My issue lies in the forgiveness part. If you believe that christ existed, then you must believe that your ancestors existed, and then are also a part of your lives as well. What christianity has done is to strip away that foundation, leaving Jesus the last one standing, for which is wrong. Jesus wasn't on those slave ships. In fact, the pope asked both Jesus and the catholic god to bless those ships for safe passage for those at the helm, not those who were considered cargo.
Even Thomas Jefferson begged the question...I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.

I err on the side of another belief, the god that looks like me, one that has my best interests.

I think I struggle with Your characterization of Christianity. I think it feels like your qualms are with white supremacy’s weaponization Of an institution. My Life as a christian has less to do with an institution and more to do with with my personal relationship to the creator of the universe. Which in my opinion still leaves your link ancestors in tact, unless your ancestors are what your pray to opposed to Jesus. But even then, if your goal is for the betterment of the diaspora, I don’t see a need for a purity test in terms of “pro blackness” if that makes sense. I also don’t think mlk’s is the only Christian approach. Not everyone is built to be an mlk

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

MLK wasnt pro-black, he was pro-humanity. He wasnt for the upliftment for black people, he was more in tuned with us fitting in. MLK was about integration

while REAL PRO-BLACK like Garvey, Malcolm X, etc was for complete independence.

Trust me, I like MLK for what he has, but pro-black he wasnt.

You subscribe to a purity test, which is your prerogative. Others don’t have to be in lock step with that to want to want the diaspora to flourish in a world unencumbered by white supremacy.

 

[layziegunts]

I think I struggle with Your characterization of Christianity. I think it feels like your qualms are with white supremacy’s weaponization Of an institution. My Life as a christian has less to do with an institution and more to do with with my personal relationship to the creator of the universe. Which in my opinion still leaves your link ancestors in tact, unless your ancestors are what your pray to opposed to Jesus. But even then, if your goal is for the betterment of the diaspora, I don’t see a need for a purity test in terms of “pro blackness” if that makes sense.

dude its not white supremacy weaponization of an institution it IS an institution of white supremacy. Simple

Christianity has always been a pillar of white supremacy.

 

[layziegunts]

frenchbreadbuilds I will say this, I wont say you cant be pro-black and a faithful Christian, thats not my place.

However, I will take a person more serious about pro-black issues when they are in not in any alignment with any Abrahamic religions.

 

[KHUFU]

I think I struggle with Your characterization of Christianity. I think it feels like your qualms are with white supremacy’s weaponization Of an institution. My Life as a christian has less to do with an institution and more to do with with my personal relationship to the creator of the universe. Which in my opinion still leaves your link ancestors in tact, unless your ancestors are what your pray to opposed to Jesus. But even then, if your goal is for the betterment of the diaspora, I don’t see a need for a purity test in terms of “pro blackness” if that makes sense.

There it is.
You do not venerate your ancestors though christianity, you starve them. Since they are not elevated, and you give Jesus all of the credit? Your ancestors cannot help you on this plane of existence. This was the plan. The reason the revolt in Hispaniola worked was because the ancestors were involved, then were still being venerated through old African customs. To win a war, you must first feel that the fight is just. Without such a standing, the wars are lost. It is the sole reason why Black people in America are still fighting a battle that is indeed just. However, there are more Black christians that are supporting, worshiping, the same deity that the oppressors are venerating.

Black christians are fighting a losing battle for equality, when we should be fighting for independence. Spiritual independence, physical independence, mental independence. Jesus doesn't care who is venerating him, and that is obvious.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

dude its not white supremacy weaponization of an institution it IS an institution of white supremacy. Simple

Christianity has always been a pillar of white supremacy.

I think we just have to agree to disagree here man. The nuances that I’m operating under is that God I believe is beyond all that. How white people have used the institution has nothing to do with what I believe in or how i operate as a part of the diaspora.

 

[llerraj]

Umar is on Curtis Scoon's podcast (ScoonTV) for anyone wanting to hear something new from him. It was interesting and got a bit spicy.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

There it is.
You do not venerate your ancestors though christianity, you starve them. Since they are not elevated, and you give Jesus all of the credit? Your ancestors cannot help you on this plane of existence. This was the plan. The reason the revolt in Hispaniola worked was because the ancestors were involved, then were still being venerated through old African customs. To win a war, you must first feel that the fight is just. Without such a standing, the wars are lost. It is the sole reason why Black people in America are still fighting a battle that is indeed just. However, there are more Black christians that are supporting, worshiping, the same deity that the oppressors are venerating.

Black christians are fighting a losing battle for equality, when we should be fighting for independence. Spiritual independence, physical independence, mental independence. Jesus doesn't care who is venerating him, and that is obvious.

I respect and understand your position. Ultimately I hope we can both continue to support the diaspora in the ways we’re empowered to do so

 

[layziegunts]

I think we just have to agree to disagree here man. The nuances that I’m operating under is that God I believe is beyond all that. How white people have used the institution has nothing to do with what I believe in or how i operate as a part of the diaspora.

my brother I will leave you with this line "youre only a Christian because your slavemaster was a Christian"

and dont tell me ur parents werent Christian either or you didnt grow up in a Christian home. You grew up in America or anywhere else where English is the dominant language I bet its country who is majority Christian.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

my brother I will leave you with this line "youre only a Christian because your slavemaster was a Christian"

and dont tell me ur parents werent Christian either or you didnt grow up in a Christian home. You grew up in America or anywhere else where English is the dominant language I bet its country who is majority Christian.

Also disagree with this. While my parents are christian (mom is catholic, my dad Protestant) I grew up Haitian and hating the church. I stopped all together when I went away to college and make the choice to believe until I was an adult on my own. I’m a christian, I’m black, and I’m very much for my people. Especially in the context of this white supremacist society. My faith does nothing but embolden those beliefs.

 

[layziegunts]

Also disagree with this. While my parents aren’t christian (mom is catholic, my dad Protestant) I grew up Haitian and hating the church. I stopped all together when I went away to college and make the choice to believe until I was an adult on my own. I’m a christian, I’m black, and I’m very much for my people. Especially in the context of this white supremacist society. My faith does nothing but embolden those beliefs.

Catholics and Protestants are Christians. I grew up Jamaican and hated the church and as an adult I hate it even more once I found out its all a lie. Trust me your upbringing has A LOT to do with the fact you are currently Christian. My life isnt about hating on religion, but more about loving blackness at its core.

You said Jesus is more important to you than Malcolm X, and to me thats a clear sign you arent as pro-black as you think.

I wont harp on this too much, because I know youre gonna hate me even more, so I will stop.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

You said Jesus is more important to you than Malcolm X, and to me thats a clear sign you arent as pro-black as you think.

Edit: meant to say my parents ARE christian.
This boils down to your own perceptions though. I can tell as much from our conversation is that you have a very small an specific view of what Christianity is and what being pro black is and you don’t allow any room for nuance. That’s got nothing to do with me or what I believe in.

 

[layziegunts]

frenchbreadbuilds Ill leave all that religion talk alone. As long as you are for black people being in a better place. Im down with you

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

frenchbreadbuilds Ill leave all that religion talk alone. As long as you are for black people being in a better place. Im down with you

nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree. the goal is a common one.

 

[debso]

I think I struggle with Your characterization of Christianity. I think it feels like your qualms are with white supremacy’s weaponization Of an institution. My Life as a christian has less to do with an institution and more to do with with my personal relationship to the creator of the universe. Which in my opinion still leaves your link ancestors in tact, unless your ancestors are what your pray to opposed to Jesus. But even then, if your goal is for the betterment of the diaspora, I don’t see a need for a purity test in terms of “pro blackness” if that makes sense. I also don’t think mlk’s is the only Christian approach. Not everyone is built to be an mlk

how did Christianity come to be?
serious question.
fwiw I grew up catholic and even went to catholic school.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

how did Christianity come to be?
serious question.
fwiw I grew up catholic and even went to catholic school.

depends where you want to start is suppose. but id say it spread in judea in the middle east and spread from there after Jesus died.
my mom is catholic, and i went to catholic school for elementary school. Catholicism wasnt for me though. lots of ritualism that i just didnt connect with.

i also think its worth mentioning that in 2019, being a black person that is also a christian isnt synomous with being a part of the stereotypical "black church". like i mentioned before, its less about being part of an institution or tethering myself to a building and more about my relationship with God. id be willing to bet that theres a large portion of black christian under the age of 35 that dont identify with being part of the "black church" but still very much so identify as christians.