Palestine vs Israel.. VERY sad pictures. some (Graphic).

[springfieldxd]

thats grimy...

SMH.

 

[memphisboi55]

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by CarminePOWER

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/

This will catch you up on the Gaza situation.

If you want info on the overall history, use wikipedia and google or get books by respected historians. Just make sure it's a balanced source.

Still, no matter how you look at it, almost 800 dead, 2-3 thousand wounded, 30-40% women and children casualties vs a handful dead and injured tells you something.

Yes, indeed. It tells us that Hamas is despicable enough to hide in schools and civilian establishments and shoot rockets from them

Oh yes, the typical answer that is zionist propaganda that is used in order to dismiss the intentional and deliberate target of civilians by the IDF. The samecrap was spewed off with the massacre that happened at Qana during the Hezbollah-Israel war in 2006. So now it is the usual propaganda being rotated that thesecivilians in Gaza are dead because Hamas hide behind women's skirts and children.

In this current incursion, where civilian shelters and establishments like U.N. schools have been hit, the lies told by the IDF have been disputed over andover again. As with the U.N. school, there were no militants operating from inside and now Israel is backtracking and admitting to it trying to cover theirtracks.

How about this tells us that the Israeli government is despicable enough to not take Palestinian civilian life into consideration?

 

[moemza]

Originally Posted by CarminePOWER

Originally Posted by MidEastBeast

http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2008/news/gaza/

This will catch you up on the Gaza situation.

If you want info on the overall history, use wikipedia and google or get books by respected historians. Just make sure it's a balanced source.

Still, no matter how you look at it, almost 800 dead, 2-3 thousand wounded, 30-40% women and children casualties vs a handful dead and injured tells you something.

Yes, indeed. It tells us that Hamas is despicable enough to hide in schools and civilian establishments and shoot rockets from them

UN Report: Israel Forced Civilians Into Single House Then Repeatedly Bombed It

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/01/09/...lians-into-single-house-repeatedly-bombed-it/http://news.antiwar.com/2...use-repeatedly-bombed-it/

 

[king sole]

I agree that both the Palestinian militants and Israeli government have committed atrocities. It just sucks that innocent people have to suffer on both sides.All these people dying are every day people that can't even afford to take sides. At the end of the day one of the causes for this is organized$*&^$*& religion and another greedy government officials, and...wait for it...modern day imperialism. Like some one said, it's all strategy. Thewestern super powers support Israel because ultimately they have something to gain. It is simply idiotic and simplistic to blame one set of people. I mean itis not the Palestinian people, I mean the normal working people, that send suicide bombers to Israel and it is not the average Israel citizen that sends theorder to do a non-stop missile attack at a defenseless country.

What I mean is that Islam is influenced by Judaism. Therefore, it is no coincidence that "god" promised the same "holy land" that peopleare dying over to three different religions, which again influenced one another (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam). God is an ill $$* hustler, I mean sold thesame holy bull doo-doo to three different people, lol.

I am deeply saddened by the loss of life. However, it is important to remember that when one singles out a country and its residents, one is guilty ofgeneralizations and stereotyping. One feeds into the exact ideology that breeds hate. Do not blame the Palestinian people or the Israeli people. It's thefat bastards that are sitting up top, in influential positions that are at fault.

my 2 cents take it or leave it.

 

[theconditioner]

They want a peace agreement once they realized that this wan't the usual inane 1 week incursion.
Everyone wants peace agreements when they're losing.
Get out of here with that nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost...d-falk-gaza_b_154523.html

During the ceasefire, the Hamas leadership in Gaza repeatedly offered to extend the truce, even proposing a 10-year period, and claimed a receptivity to a political solution based on acceptance of Israel's 1967 borders. Israel ignored these diplomatic initiatives and failed to carry out its side of the ceasefire agreement, which involved some easing of the blockade that had been restricting the entry to Gaza of food, medicine and fuel to a trickle.
Read the entire article.

Rigging a school. Real Nice.

After that? "The Children have no place to learn!"

Ah, almost as nice as Israel shooting one two schools up with people inside! Or almost as nice as Israeli military rounding up civillians into a shelter, then firing at it a day later,or almost as nice as the phosphorus ammo used, or the F-16s and apaches used, or the depleted uranium used.

And seriously, anyone that quotes the IDF has almost zero credibility. Please stop with the propaganda.

Look at what Amnesty International is saying; read what Human Rights Watch is saying; listen to what B'Tselem is saying; listen to what the U.N. is saying. Look at the numbers. About 900 to less than 15. And some people are still trying to rationalize this. Heck, read what the WSJ even published:

http://online.wsj.com/art...9.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

 

[theconditioner]

These article clippings may be of interest to some of you as well.

http://normanfinkelstein....elsWarOnGaza_Jan12009.doc

Oh yea,

UN: No Hamas at school bombed by Israel
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7013618649
Again, just another reason not to believe that BS from the IDF. When you set up your own Youtube site, you know you've got an agenda.

 

[suckafree85]

Dam

sad.

 

[jumpman247]

Palestine should Nuke Israel.

 

[ssgefiestoakagerger]

I saw this pic on the Jewish Journal

?

Seriously, if you're house was invaded like this, what would you do?

 

[703 hwy]

Haven't read into any of this, wth is going on over there?

 

[wawaweewa]

Originally Posted by theconditioner

They want a peace agreement once they realized that this wan't the usual inane 1 week incursion.
Everyone wants peace agreements when they're losing.

Get out of here with that nonsense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-gardels/the-uns-richard-falk-gaza_b_154523.htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost...d-falk-gaza_b_154523.html

During the ceasefire, the Hamas leadership in Gaza repeatedly offered to extend the truce, even proposing a 10-year period, and claimed a receptivity to a political solution based on acceptance of Israel's 1967 borders. Israel ignored these diplomatic initiatives and failed to carry out its side of the ceasefire agreement, which involved some easing of the blockade that had been restricting the entry to Gaza of food, medicine and fuel to a trickle.
Read the entire article.

Rigging a school. Real Nice.

After that? "The Children have no place to learn!"

Ah, almost as nice as Israel shooting one two schools up with people inside! Or almost as nice as Israeli military rounding up civillians into a shelter, then firing at it a day later, or almost as nice as the phosphorus ammo used, or the F-16s and apaches used, or the depleted uranium used.

And seriously, anyone that quotes the IDF has almost zero credibility. Please stop with the propaganda.

Look at what Amnesty International is saying; read what Human Rights Watch is saying; listen to what B'Tselem is saying; listen to what the U.N. is saying. Look at the numbers. About 900 to less than 15. And some people are still trying to rationalize this. Heck, read what the WSJ even published:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123154826952369919.html?mod=googlenews_wsjhttp://online.wsj.com/art...9.html?mod=googlenews_wsj


Get out of what?

The Gaza wing of Hamas wants a truce agreement at present because the Israeli's are taking it further than they would have foreseen. They most likely haddelusional visions of luring the Israelis into house to house fighting and inflicting heavy casualties on them there. Little did they guess that theIsraeli's would follow the American doctrine of bomb first, ask questions later.

What about the events 6 months ago? 'Truces' in that region don't last a year let alone 10 years. I'm sure Hamas has offered truces many times,on its terms. Just like the Israeli's offer it on theirs. Neither is going to accept a truce that is not on their terms.

These numbers games are utterly absurd. Do these numbers games work the other way too?
The Soviets lost upwards of 20M+ in WW2, would it have been alright for them to kill 15 million Germans once they took posession of East Germany?
The Japanese lost far more people than the Americans did in WW2, is it alright if the Japanese come by tomorrow and kill a million Americans just to even thenumbers?

Would it be alright if both sides just fired rockets randomly at each other. I can see it now.
- Hamas Commander calls Israeli PM: Hey, how many rockets you wan to fire today?
- PM: Eh, how about 20.
- Hamas commander: No. No. We can only do 17 today.
- PM: Sounds good.

Better yet. Israel should just deliver a howitzer to Hamas this hour and a few hundred shells and let kill 400 Israeli civilians so that Israel can go and kill400 more civilians and then Hamas gets to kill 400 and so on... Let's play the numbers game. Let's do it this way. Then Israel couldn't beexcoriated for their actions, right?


Yes, that was propaganda. What isn't propaganda? You really believe that those reports from UN, HRW, etc. aren't propaganda? There is no such thing asobjective and unbiased. That being said propaganda is not necessarily lies. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Just like it was real that Israel bombed a UN compound full of kids it's just as real that Hamas rigs schools and civilian houses with explosives. Thenthey complain that they have no schools or their houses are obliterated.

War is horrible not because it kills military men but because it wreaks havoc on the civilian population in many instances.
When the Palestinians In Gaza elected Hamas what did they expect? Yes, Fatah is corrupt but at least they're not stupid enough to provoke a foe that isimmeasurably stronger.
Hamas gave Israel what it wanted. Israel wanted a reason to go into Gaza and weaken Hamas and Hamas just gave them that reason on a silver platter.

The Palestinians seem ready to bear the consequences of standing on principal without peace instead of feeling the pain of getting less than what they want.
By the same token, the Israeli's seem ready to bear the consequences of living without peace instead of facing a situation where they don't get whatthey want.
Until one side is ready to literally 'give up' there will be no lasting peace. Only temporary truces.

 

[retr0sxual]

My heart goes out to the Palestinians.

!@#+**$ Zionists.

 

[south sole]

very informative thread

 

[chrispcb15]

Wow very sad thread....SMH....

This needs to end....R.I.P to the fallen

 

[theconditioner]

The Gaza wing of Hamas wants a truce agreement at present because the Israeli's are taking it further than they would have foreseen.
Hamas has wanted numerous agreements in the past, and were still ignored. Not just at present during the fighting. With garbage like: "Theywant a peace agreement once they realized that this wan't the usual inane 1 week incursion. Everyone wants peace agreements when they're losing,"it seems that you think Hamas wants peace NOW that Palestinians are being killed, when in fact the truth is closer to the opposite. They want a cease-fire, butone that actually considers their needs as well, so they've rejected UN calls for a cease-fire until their voice is heard.

What about the events 6 months ago? 'Truces' in that region don't last a year let alone 10 years. I'm sure Hamas has offered truces many times, on its terms. Just like the Israeli's offer it on theirs. Neither is going to accept a truce that is not on their terms.
On its terms, yes, as well as on the term of the United Nations, usually consistent with U.N. resolution 242. Research it - you may learnsomething.

These numbers games are utterly absurd. Do these numbers games work the other way too?
The Soviets lost upwards of 20M+ in WW2, would it have been alright for them to kill 15 million Germans once they took posession of East Germany?


The Japanese lost far more people than the Americans did in WW2, is it alright if the Japanese come by tomorrow and kill a million Americans just to even the numbers?

Would it be alright if both sides just fired rockets randomly at each other. I can see it now.
- Hamas Commander calls Israeli PM: Hey, how many rockets you wan to fire today?
- PM: Eh, how about 20.
- Hamas commander: No. No. We can only do 17 today.
- PM: Sounds good.

Better yet. Israel should just deliver a howitzer to Hamas this hour and a few hundred shells and let kill 400 Israeli civilians so that Israel can go and kill 400 more civilians and then Hamas gets to kill 400 and so on... Let's play the numbers game. Let's do it this way. Then Israel couldn't be excoriated for their actions, right?
You're making absolutely no sense. Because you cannot argue against the facts, your argument has shifted to a level of abstraction that I amalmost ashamed to comment on. But I will anyway. It is not a matter of the Palestinians getting even. The reason the death tally is brought up, unfortunately,is because it allows people to see the sheer discrepancy between the two, and how one-sided this slaughter is. But of course some people still don't takethat into account and try to legitimize what Israel is doing? If you really think people bring this up to say "Hey, that's no fair! The Palestiniansshould get to kill the same amount of people!" - then you're severely misguided. These ridiculous hypothetical situations really miss any point I wastrying to make. Its definitely not a numbers game, my friend. 900 means 900 individuals who once had a life; 15 means 15 people who once had a life.

Yes, that was propaganda. What isn't propaganda? You really believe that those reports from UN, HRW, etc. aren't propaganda? There is no such thing as objective and unbiased. That being said propaganda is not necessarily lies. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Just like it was real that Israel bombed a UN compound full of kids it's just as real that Hamas rigs schools and civilian houses with explosives. Then they complain that they have no schools or their houses are obliterated.
I definitely wouldn't think that Hamas would not rig an empty school building - but it is a pretty minute point that you're trying tomake. It is not likely that Hamas was intending on killing children, considering that school is not likely to be in session. But at the same time Iwouldn't doubt that the IDF made it up. My point: get some credible resources. But I too believe that there is hardly a such thing as objective andunbiased information. There are, however, better, more informed, and more reputable sources of information. I would agree with what Dr. Sara Roy of Harvardsaid:

"My commitment is to accuracy, to present the facts to the best of my ability; not neutrality or objectivity. Neither is possible in any event. Neutralityis often a mask for siding with the status quo, and objectivity, pure objectivity, does not exist and a claim in it is dishonest. "

And Roy has came to pretty much the same conclusion as myself and others: Israel is devastating the Palestinian people in multiple ways. Do you really believethe IDF is just as credible as the UN, Amnesty International, HRW, B'Tselem, and thousands of reports coming out of Gaza from reporters that describe theatrocities Israel is committing (as well as the fear Hamas has spread - again a result of Israeli policy toward Palestine)? Call propaganda what you want, butthere is a huge discrepancy between the IDF and these sources.

When the Palestinians In Gaza elected Hamas what did they expect?
I'm pretty sure they were expecting someone that would actually stand up for their people. And although it is arguable whether or notHamas' continued action is justified (or if it makes sense), their intention is to protect their people. I mean, what do people expect in a situation thatPalestine has faced for decades? Do people expect them to just sit there and die while Israel strangulates their economy, cuts their power, cuts humanitarianaid, sets up blockades in their own land, bulldozes their homes, and treats their people "like dogs" (as some Israeli officials have been quotedsaying)? Do people expect them to sit there and beg for a peace settlement like Oslo, which only made them worse off? Some of these people feel they havenothing to lose, NT; they've been desensitized for years by Israeli oppression. So it is not surprising that some people retaliate. In my opinion, theyhave MUCH MORE justification than Israel does. Again, peace will NOT come as long as Israel and the United States maintain their rejectionist stances. IfIsrael would actually abide by international law, then there is a chance for peace, but that is a very abstract idea at this point.

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Good post, theconditioner.

I cannot believe the carnage in Gaza is still going on. If anything, I think this will radicalize Hamas even more and it will surely not stop the rockets.