Plot to kill cartoonist that drew Mohammad thwarted

[cz7]

Originally Posted by Dynamic X

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by F A Y B A N

Cz7 wrote:

I could really care less weather or not they accept depictions of their religious figures, that still is not justification for wanting to kill a man or supporting the desire to kill a man. If you think that justifies the radical's actions then I feel sorry for you.

Where did I act like violence is exclusive to Muslims? But one can certainly make a case that the majority of religiously motivated violence in recent history has been affiliated with Islam.

You are not getting the point.

Get the record straight; No one is supporting the guy's actions for trying to kill him.

We are (Or at least I am) just saying that he's an idiot for drawing up pictures of Muslims carrying bombs. What I'm saying is, the small minority of Muslims who believe that violence is necessary are provoked by anything that mocks them or disrespects them. He is an idiot for doing exactly that.

It's common sense. After witnessing what radicals can do to countries this decade for no particular reason (NYC, Madrid, London), with the majority of those being tied to radical Muslims, is it still sensible to think that no radical Muslim is going to want to kill him for coming after their religion with mockery?

This majority of religiously motivated violence is indeed mostly Muslim... but this same majority is a minority in the Islamic world that is not accepted by the majority.


There were those in this thread (not you), that said he deserved to die. Those are the ones I'm addressing when I say that. You seem to thinkthe cartoon is stupid simply because it has garnered violent reaction instead of because it actually being offensive, so If no radical violent Islamic sectsexisted to oppose the cartoon would it be okay? Nothing would ever get done if people feared violent retribution, and the possibility of such is not reallygrounds to withhold your opinion and it shouldn't be.

and to FAYBAN, if all you can do is point out common grammatical mistakes in an informal writing situation then you might as well just say F it.

 

[f a y b a n]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by Dynamic X

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by F A Y B A N

Cz7 wrote:

There were those in this thread (not you), that said he deserved to die. Those are the ones I'm addressing when I say that. You seem to think the cartoon is stupid simply because it has garnered violent reaction instead of because it actually being offensive, so If no radical violent Islamic sects existed to oppose the cartoon would it be okay? Nothing would ever get done if people feared violent retribution, and the possibility of such is not really grounds to withhold your opinion and it shouldn't be.

and to FAYBAN, if all you can do is point out common grammatical mistakes in an informal writing situation then you might as well just say F it.



I said f it because I was typing out a response to his post but I felt it was pointless. Some people just feel how they feel, what's the point intrying to reason with them or trying to present another viewpoint when they have no interest in listening?

 

[bigboi415]

haha funny cartoon

 

[thecalculator]

Originally Posted by 0cks

Cartoonist is an idiot for even barking up that wrong tree

 

[0cks]

Originally Posted by DaGreatJ

Originally Posted by Capricorn1229

People need to stop playing around with people religions. It is not a game.

especially Islam... Them Muslims don't play.....

Pretty much

If you want to clown a religious group go at the Amish. They aint built for the murder game and for the most part are what, confined to the Midwest of theUnited States? Islam is like a far reaching +1 billi person religion ready for whatever

The cartoonist feels that he should be afforded the freedom to draw what he likes. What he needs to realize is that every action has a reaction. If somefanatics feel the consequences of murdering homeboy pale in comparison to the need to defend their religion, then so be it. He's an idiot, he knew what thereaction would be and he drew the cartoon anyways.

This thread reminds me of that thread about the kid that was murdered over touching some dudes Beamer. Some people just let things escalate, everyone shouldunderstand this.

 

[kicktionair]

If God had a problem with it.....

he himself would come down from the heavens and deal with it like he has done countless times before

can I get an amen?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Kicktionair

If God had a problem with it.....

he himself would come down from the heavens and deal with it like he has done countless times before

can I get an amen?

Word, whatever happened to Gods throwing down lightening bolts to murk mere mortals.

 

[cwrite78]

i love religion. more entertaining than hollywood

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by 0cks

Originally Posted by DaGreatJ

Originally Posted by Capricorn1229

People need to stop playing around with people religions. It is not a game.

especially Islam... Them Muslims don't play.....

Pretty much

If you want to clown a religious group go at the Amish. They aint built for the murder game and for the most part are what, confined to the Midwest of the United States?

 

[hazeleyed honey]

Originally Posted by MetallicNitro

It isn't just with this. ANY criticism of Islam leads to protest. They need to learn how to deal with it instead of causing an uproar. Jews and Christians are constantly criticized but you rarely, if ever, see huge protest like you do with Muslims.

I just think that this is the last straw,for these religious people over in the Middle East, that broke the camel's back. This violence is veryunjustified and unacceptable,but they have all this anger bottled up against the West, that to them making fun of the Prophet made them lash into fury andrage. They associate these demeaning cartoons as a war against them from the West.

In the Middle East, they really do view as the West is out to get them and trying to bring down Islam. They have such bitterness against the West for itsforeign policies, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the invasion of the Iraq war,etc...So when something like this happens when they insult Prophet Mohammed,they directly see it as an attack on them and retaliate back with violence even though it is unjustifiable.They definetly do think the U.S. government isbehind all this.

For example, here is what one protester professed to the media during one of the protests at the time...

Cartoon Protesters Direct Anger at U.S.
Feb 08 10:06 PM US/Eastern

By NOOR KHAN
Associated Press Writer
QALAT, Afghanistan

Police killed four people Wednesday as Afghans enraged over drawings of the Prophet Muhammad marched on a U.S. military base in a volatile southern province, directing their anger not against Europe but America.

The U.S. base was targeted because the United States "is the leader of Europe and the leading infidel in the world," said Sher Mohammed, a 40-year-old farmer who suffered a gunshot wound while taking part in the demonstration in the city of Qalat.

"They are all the enemy of Islam. They are OCCUPIERS IN OUR COUNTRY AND MUST BE DRIVEN OUT," Mohammed said.
...


http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/08/D8FLB3F81.html
That is the root of it all for them.

I also wanted to add that if anyone were to insult Judaism or Jewish people, they would be branded anti-semitic and there are laws put into place to put peoplein jail who are charged for antisemitic remarks that are seen as hate speech. There are big consequences. This was put into place due to certain eventsthroughout history which persecuted Jewish people. However, nowadays in the media, Muslims are vilified and sometimes persecuted with hate speech and it seemsto be more accepted.

 

[duba169]

most of you are disgusting people

straight up defending this $%@!. amazing. "oh, he playing with my religion!" seriously some twisted %%*%##@ logic with you people defending this. isuggest some of you move out of america since you don't like freedom of speech and think its okay to murder someone because he mocked your religiousfigure.

better yet go fight for the cause

 

[duba169]

0cks wrote:

The cartoonist feels that he should be afforded the freedom to draw what he likes. What he needs to realize is that every action has a reaction. If some fanatics feel the consequences of murdering homeboy pale in comparison to the need to defend their religion, then so be it. He's an idiot, he knew what the reaction would be and he drew the cartoon anyways.


guess what the consequence to this article and the response of sympathizers is. it makes you and your people look like you belong in the 15th century. and itonly enforces people thinking that muslims are illogical fanatics and that you can only deal with them by force. you can't always blame the media.

so good job

 

[senatorjeffsmith]

Two things people in this world take too seriously:

-sports
-religion

 

[0cks]

Originally Posted by DubA169

0cks wrote:

The cartoonist feels that he should be afforded the freedom to draw what he likes. What he needs to realize is that every action has a reaction. If some fanatics feel the consequences of murdering homeboy pale in comparison to the need to defend their religion, then so be it. He's an idiot, he knew what the reaction would be and he drew the cartoon anyways.

guess what the consequence to this article and the response of sympathizers is. it makes you and your people look like you belong in the 15th century. and it only enforces people thinking that muslims are illogical fanatics and that you can only deal with them by force. you can't always blame the media.

so good job

Well it is what it is.

At the end of the day, you can't control another person's actions/opinions. You might feel murder is OD, they think it is by all means necessary. Hisdrawing clearly shows that he understands this notion. He's dumb for drawing that cartoon.

I don't feel dude deserves to die, but I don't feel bad about his

 

[wooly willy]

Originally Posted by DubA169

0cks wrote:

The cartoonist feels that he should be afforded the freedom to draw what he likes. What he needs to realize is that every action has a reaction. If some fanatics feel the consequences of murdering homeboy pale in comparison to the need to defend their religion, then so be it. He's an idiot, he knew what the reaction would be and he drew the cartoon anyways.

guess what the consequence to this article and the response of sympathizers is. it makes you and your people look like you belong in the 15th century. and it only enforces people thinking that muslims are illogical fanatics and that you can only deal with them by force. you can't always blame the media.

so good job

I don't think Ocks is Muslim

but that's besidesthe point.

There's a few things that you are failing to see with this situation. First, as Muslims, we love and respect the Prophet Muhammad more than we loveourselves. As someone posted earlier in the thread, the concern over drawing pictures of Muhammad is because of the fear that people will begin to worshipstatues, pictures, iconography, etc of him similar to what you find in Christianity. This fear is not unfounded considering the admiration this man has in thehearts of Muslims and, in fact, he himself had to keep reminding his companions that he is just a man with no power that will eventually die.

What's the problem with this cartoon then? This cartoon clearly had a strong political and satirical statement behind it which blasphemous to Muslims.Muslims, however, have been facing theological attacks since the time of the Prophet but there was never a problem defending Islam against such attacks. Theproblem, as Hazeleyed Honey perfectly stated, is that the Muslim in today's age is in a position of weakness and sees the West as a threat. Iraq,Afghanistan, Somalia, Palestine, and, more recently, Yemen are seen by the Muslim world as clear evidence of the blatant attack on Muslims by Western nations.This sentiment has been stirring up for many years and when the Danish government arrogantly refused to apologize, the Muslim world exploded. Was therereaction barbaric and uncalled for? Yes it was. As MoMatik pointed out, these people living in these Muslim countries are poor, uneducated people (as is thesame in much of the 3rd world regardless of religion) living in autocracies. They felt like they had no other way to lash out except get to get violent.I'm American, born and raised in the US and my family is American. I am a devout Muslim and I am involved with Islamic missionary work on my campus (wetalk to different organizations, hand out pamphlets, hold activities, etc) as well as travel around the country periodically with this group spreadinginformation about Islam. The majority of people I talk/debate with are very respectful but once in a while you get those guys that start hurling insults aboutIslam and the Prophet so I have heard the worst of the worst. You didn't see the same kind of reaction you saw overseas here in the US. Why? Because themajority of Muslims here are educated, middle class citizens and have used other outlets to express their discontent. We held activities on campus spreadinginformation on the Prophet, answering misconceptions, etc. Others held protests. So having these factors in mind, the guy clearly knew what he was gettinghimself into. He saw what happened to Theo Van Gogh over in the Netherlands for his film. There were definitely more effective and less offensive ways to gethis message across especially if he was trying to get dialogue started with Muslims (as he claimed he was trying to do)

These kind of incidences really do sadden me. Islam is a beautiful religion with a beautiful message behind it.

 

[spsfinest212]

Interesting thread.

 

[friendliest ghost]

Why is it that a million Muslims will pour into the streets to protest Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, but not one will take to the streets to protest Muslim suicide bombers who blow up other Muslims, real people, created in the image of God?


Courtesy of Tom Friedman.

Where are the vocal, moderate Muslims?

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by DubA169

most of you are disgusting people

straight up defending this $%@!. amazing. "oh, he playing with my religion!" seriously some twisted %%*%##@ logic with you people defending this. i suggest some of you move out of america since you don't like freedom of speech and think its okay to murder someone because he mocked your religious figure.

better yet go fight for the cause

I was waiting for someone to pull the freedom of speech card.

Here is the thing about freedom of speech; it doesn't exist in the form that you are talking about, ESPECIALLY in Europe.

In every civilization, there are certain topics that will always be considered taboo. The person will suffer either legally or socially.

For example, in America, one cannot say anything racist, anti semetic, homophobic, or misogynistic to state a few, without suffering. Ethically, according tofreedom of speech laws, shouldn't we respect their right to have those views?

But no, look at what happened to Mel Gibson, look at what happened to Kramer. Look at Tim Hardaway. All these guys suffered enormous scrutiny from the publicAND the media.

Europe is even worse, for there are laws in place against anti-Semetism. Robert Faurisson, a college professor and respected historian, denied the holocaustever happened, and went under such scrutiny that he was tried in a court of law, he lost his job, and he will always be associated with that.

David Irving was another man who did not even question the holocaust, but rather questioned the official number of deaths, and he went to jail for 4 years forhis scholarly beliefs.

You are going to tell me that Muslims should respect these blatant hate views in the name of Freedom of Speech, when there is obviously a double standard? Please. I could go on and on, but understand that there is no such thing as TRUE Freedom of Speech, and that is how it should be.

Remember though, this being said, I'm not ridiculous enough to support the riots and violence that followed. There was an honest and effective method thatwas being carried out, which I explained in one of my previous posts. The radicals made the headlines though.

Two things people in this world take too seriously:

-sports
-religion
How are you not supposed to take religion seriously?

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by Friendliest Ghost

Why is it that a million Muslims will pour into the streets to protest Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, but not one will take to the streets to protest Muslim suicide bombers who blow up other Muslims, real people, created in the image of God?

Courtesy of Tom Friedman.

Where are the vocal, moderate Muslims?

Muslims all over the world take various measures to make a point against terrorism, it just doesn't make the headlines.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/antiterrorrally.htm

Hundreds of families and community leaders, Muslim and non-Muslim, attend a Dallas rally against terrorism, sponsored by the Council on American-Islamic Relations
http://pluralism.org/news/view/7781

Hundreds Join Muslim Rally Against Terrorism in AZ (Arizona)
[h3]http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0426terror-rally26.html[/h3]http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2008/11/29

Indian Muslims,protest against terrorist attacks in Mumbai,

The majority of Muslims make points to move against terrorism all over the world, even in the regions where they don't have very mucheducation. It's just that true Muslims don't make the headlines. Believe it or not, there is an agenda to EVERY media source. NT needs to read moreChomsky.

I can take examples all over, but look at what the much more active involvement of Muslims in the Northern regions of Pakistan got them just yesterday.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/W...istan.attacks/index.html

The village civilians along with the Pakistani military worked to purge the Taliban from their village, and what happens? 100 civilians dead at a volleyballgame. How much more of an active role to Muslims need to take other than losing their lives on a daily basis? We are in the for fronts of the fight against"terrorism," not necessarily in the streets rallying to prove a point to the international community.

I guess this is one instance where actions don't speak louder than words though.

 

[xtapolapacetl]

To those who portray this guy as some sort of a "brave" figure: I've heard that during this attack he left his 5 year-old niece alone inside thehouse while he ran outside to get away.

Walking down the street in downtown Baghdad wearing a t-shirt with that cartoon on it would be bravery.

He does not deserve to die though. I am pretty sure that he wasn't aware how big of a deal this was when he drew those cartoons, and I am also sure that heregrets that he did it and that he would take it back if he could despite what he might say in some interview to portray himself as some freedom of speechhero.

All I hope for is that this guy lives, but that this whole episode set an example and would prevent others from making new drawings. This isn't the rightway of introducing freedom of speech to the Muslim world. Neither ethically nor practically. In the end, noone wins but extremists. Extremists on both sides.Both Islamic extremists who can use this event to recruit a TON of angry young people who are ready to strap themselves full of explosives and kill as manyrandom innocent people as possible on some form of public transportation; As well as the anti-immigration right-wingers who effectively want an ethniccleansing of Europe and U.S. and kick the last Muslim out of the countries.

 

[iheartboost]

Son posted the picture, we're reynolds!

 

[duba169]

mo if you don't see the difference between being ostracized in public for a homophobic remark or crucified by the media for denying the holocaust and beingmurdered for a cartoon drawing than i don't know what to tell you. they tried to MURDER him and a great deal of people applauded it.

 

[mo matik]

Originally Posted by DubA169

mo if you don't see the difference between being ostracized in public for a homophobic remark or crucified by the media for denying the holocaust and being murdered for a cartoon drawing than i don't know what to tell you. they tried to MURDER him and a great deal of people applauded it.

In my post I finished with saying how I don't support the violence, and the riots. I agree fully that the violence is fully unacceptable. Itreinforces the overall sentiments that caused the cartoons in the first place.

While there were people the supported the violence, there was also a majority that FULLY supported the mans right to make these cartoons, which I don'tsupport at all.

But I do support the overall contempt for the cartoons, and demand for an overall apology, and fully supported the boycotts.

http://www.chinadaily.com...02/17/content_521276.htm

Muslim boycotts of Danish products costly
That is the method by which most Muslims went to demand a real apology, but the uneducated foolish Muslims went to the streets, burnt vehicles andembassies and they made the news.

 

[duba169]

your post implies that you support mingling religion and politics. contempt i understand, but when religion matters to the government enough to place boycottson a country, it just rubs me the wrong way. I think I missed it, which countries boycotted the danish?

 

[coolnificent]

Originally Posted by Capricorn1229

People need to stop playing around with people religions. It is not a game.

I found that funny