\\ Post Your Car vol. Been a minute //

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

Sure thing bud. Thanks for the lesson on physics lol

Its funny to me that all the so-called "car enthusiasts" dont even understand what the M5 is for, who its buyers are, and where the market is.

No one buying new M5's at sticker is buying it to be primarily a track toy or a sports car. Who is spending 120k on a big sedan loaded with every creature comfort imaginable? So-called "car enthusiasts"? Give me a break. That's what 911's, M3's, and Lotus's are for. People that are buying new M5's are people that want a big, comfortable highway bruiser that can fit their families or their friends and that can step out on occasion. And thats exactly what this and every M5 since the V10 has been.

"We want a lightweight, RWD, manual, NA hoon-mobile". Then buy them. Cause they get made, no one buys them, and then all the "car enthusiasts" sit around and cry about the good ole days. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.

i think what he was saying is that before the m5 was good at all those things while still being light and nimble

now its basically a charger with a nicer interior

 

[nonnative]

Big girls are still pretty and depending on what they were, they can mask how big they are but when you pick them up there’s no hiding it. It’s physics plain and simple.


You can tell that you are an engineer and not actual car enthusiast with this post. There is NOTHING an engineer can do to hide that much weight and that 100% plays a huge ( pun intended) role in this car’s driving dynamics. Nobody said it wouldn’t be fast or a “ monster “ but that seems to be your go to .


Have you ever driven a GTR? It was a “ monster “ performer back in the day and still is to this day even by today’s standards yet it always was and still to this day not considered a great drivers car because of its mass.

BMW ///M division, once prided themselves on making drivers cars but they have succumb to people like you that feel like because a car is fast that makes it a driver’s car.

And just for kicks, why dont you do yourself a favor and look up Nurburgring lap times for every generation of M5.

Spoiler alert, the times go down as the weight goes up.

Cant hide the weight huh?

 

[ALNotSure]

Sure thing bud. Thanks for the lesson on physics lol

Its funny to me that all the so-called "car enthusiasts" dont even understand what the M5 is for, who its buyers are, and where the market is.

No one buying new M5's at sticker is buying it to be primarily a track toy or a sports car. Who is spending 120k on a big sedan loaded with every creature comfort imaginable? So-called "car enthusiasts"? Give me a break. That's what 911's, M3's, and Lotus's are for. People that are buying new M5's are people that want a big, comfortable highway bruiser that can fit their families or their friends and that can step out on occasion. And thats exactly what this and every M5 since the V10 has been.

"We want a lightweight, RWD, manual, NA hoon-mobile". Then buy them. Cause they get made, no one buys them, and then all the "car enthusiasts" sit around and cry about the good ole days. Rinse and repeat ad nauseam.

BMW M sold its soul for sales awhile ago. This is a brand that 20 years ago insisted a M car would never be a SUV or automatic. Today M badges are slapped on everything. Today the flagship of the brand is a 6000lbs XM, a flop panned in reviews, sells like crap and will be discontinued. We asked for a M1 to come back. The engines are no longer bespoke either, shared with lesser siblings. The M3/M4 while massively larger and heavier seems to better nail things.

E34, E39, E60 dominated comparisons. E60 was actually SMG Automatic only until Americans demanded a manual.

F10, F90, G90 are automatic only. This helps sell to anyone. Now they are AWD so these non enthusiasts with money don’t kill themselves driving a 600hp car.

Sadly there was a time a M5 meant you were a true car enthusiast. Manual only badass sedan. Today it, E63, RS6/7, Panamera Turbo are all turbo 8, awd, automatic, heavy sport sedans.

A new M5 weighs MORE than the X5M. 20 years ago we would have laughed if someone told us this was the future.

But from a business standpoint it’s clearly understandable. It’s for sales and companies are in business to sell. But don’t sell me on track times and how it has a bigger screen and brakes when the heart wants an E39.

 

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

BMW M sold its soul for sales awhile ago. This is a brand that 20 years ago insisted a M car would never be a SUV or automatic. Today the flagship of the brand is a 6000lbs XM, a flop panned in reviews, sells like crap and will be discontinued. We asked for a M1 to come back. The engines are no longer bespoke either, shared with lesser siblings. The M3/M4 while massively larger and heavier seems to better nail things.

E34, E39, E60 dominated comparisons. E60 was actually SMG Automatic only until Americans demanded a manual.

F10, F90, G90 are automatic only. This helps sell to anyone. Now they are AWD so these non enthusiasts with money don’t kill themselves driving a 600hp car.

Sadly there was a time a M5 meant you were a true car enthusiast. Manual only badass sedan. Today it, E63, RS6/7, Panamera Turbo are all turbo 8, awd, automatic, heavy sport sedans.

A new M5 weighs MORE than the X5M. 20 years ago we would have laughed if someone told us this was the future.

so are u saying bmw is now bbw?

 

[kaz109]

And just for kicks, why dont you do yourself a favor and look up Nurburgring lap times for every generation of M5.

Spoiler alert, the times go down as the weight goes up.

Cant hide the weight huh?

Jesus Christ man you’re an engineer and are still lacking basic reading comprehension.

No one is saying that it will not be faster, which is why I asked you if you have driven or remember when the GTR was first introduced.

I will try and see it differently and see if you understand better, it will be fast but the experience will be muted and soulless. Just like a GTR…….

///M division did not use to chase lap time and that is what set them apart from AMG . What we are saying is ///M sold its soul and like I said earlier, I don’t know if you will understand that because you are coming at it from an engineer standpoint, and not a car enthusiast.


If you would have owned or driven said BMWs , AMGs , Hellcats etc etc you would understand what we are saying

 

[ALNotSure]

so are u saying bmw is now bbw?

It’s what the masses like now lol

 

[njavier03]

I get what you’re saying, but “sold their soul” is a bit dramatic. EPA has been cracking down, market has shifted, consumer tastes have changed. There isn’t one manufacturer that has remained constant since its inception. Hell, we have electric Porsche sedans and SUVs.

 

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

It’s what the masses like now lol

I do like me some mASS

 

[ALNotSure]

And to clarify I still love the F90… if you all are unaware it was the first sedan in EVO history to win Performance Car of the Year… beating even a GT3 and Huracan STO among others… how? They fixed the suspension, added more power and it lost 150lbs…

2023 BMW M5 CS review: nonsensical on paper, sublime in practice | Evo

Never has a modern supersaloon been more tactile or engaging; the M5 CS is truly an all-time great

www.evo.co.uk

 

[MakeNTGreatAgain]

And to clarify I still love the F90… if you all are unaware it was the first sedan in EVO history to win Performance Car of the Year… beating even a GT3 and Huracan STO among others… how? They fixed the suspension, added more power and it lost 150lbs…

2023 BMW M5 CS review: nonsensical on paper, sublime in practice | Evo

Never has a modern supersaloon been more tactile or engaging; the M5 CS is truly an all-time great

www.evo.co.uk

according to mister engineer in this thread they should have added another 150pounds

 

[kaz109]

according to mister engineer in this thread they should have added another 150pounds

You’re not an engineer so I wouldn’t expect you to math as well as him big homie….. according to him they should’ve added more like 1150lbs lol

 

[ALNotSure]

I get what you’re saying, but “sold their soul” is a bit dramatic. EPA has been cracking down, market has shifted, consumer tastes have changed. There isn’t one manufacturer that has remained constant since its inception. Hell, we have electric Porsche sedans and SUVs.

Oh we agree mostly, it was for sales. M cars are more profitable and image makers for the brand. But they went from bespoke, manual only, lightest in class to M badged anything, engines shared with everything, SUVs, automatics, AWD vehicles mostly. I can’t blame them as it increased sales. But there is no way a F80 M4 is more desirable to me than an E46 M3 I don’t care how much faster it is. Which is why values of the older cars are skyrocketing.

And with M moving in the direction of AMG and RS it’s all blurred. All absolutely quick and capable vehicles with performance times unimaginable 20 years ago.

 

[nonnative]

Jesus Christ man you’re an engineer and are still lacking basic reading comprehension.

No one is saying that it will not be faster, which is why I asked you if you have driven or remember when the GTR was first introduced.

I will try and see it differently and see if you understand better, it will be fast but the experience will be muted and soulless. Just like a GTR…….

///M division did not use to chase lap time and that is what set them apart from AMG . What we are saying is ///M sold its soul and like I said earlier, I don’t know if you will understand that because you are coming at it from an engineer standpoint, and not a car enthusiast.


If you would have owned or driven said BMWs , AMGs , Hellcats etc etc you would understand what we are saying

My guy. You're comparing the effect of weight on a GTR, an actual sports car to the effect of weight on a luxury sedan. Because that's exactly what an M5 is. It's a fast one but it's still a luxury sedan. Every tech, safety, comfort feature imaginable. Its such a nonsense comparison to make.

Like I said, you're completely missing the mark on the M5 market. The people buying these new want their heated and cooled seats, all the screens, 20 different drive modes, etc. They don't care that it's "soulless" because it's fast, it's big , it's comfortable, and it has a shiny M badge on it.

Here's the thing you need to realize. Not every car is for you and that's ok. Times change and markets change and that's ok too.

And here's another thing you need to realize. The weight, the tech, the electricification, the screens, etc. All the stuff that is "devaluing the badge", "selling their soul", etc. is necessary because nobody is buying what enthusiasts want save for a few niches like Lotus, Miatas, and a few 911s.

So it's either survive and have a chance at making some cool stuff or die off. Ask anyone that was around how foolish Porsche owners were acting when they started making the cayenne.

It'a funny that you say "I can tell you're an engineer and not a car enthusiast" as if it's an insult. I actually prefer it that way just like I don't want to be called a sneakerhead. I don't sit around and yearn for a world that doesn't exist anymore and then get mad when everything isn't catered to what I want.

BTW, it's hilarious that you assume I've never driven or owned any of these. I bought an F80 M3 with my first work bonus and because of all the meets I used to go to, I've driven probably 20 different M3s, M5s, an M6, and even an F87 M2.

 

[njavier03]

Oh we agree mostly, it was for sales. M cars are more profitable and image makers for the brand. But they went from bespoke, manual only, lightest in class to M badged anything, engines shared with everything, SUVs, automatics, AWD vehicles mostly. I can’t blame them as it increased sales. But there is no way a F80 M4 is more desirable to me than an E46 M3 I don’t care how much faster it is. Which is why values of the older cars are skyrocketing.

And with M moving in the direction of AMG and RS it’s all blurred. All absolutely quick and capable vehicles with performance times unimaginable 20 years ago.

i think we'd have a different opinion on BMW if they at least kept the M badge on non-SUVs. you're right, everything is an M. i don't really mind the M340i or the like, but the X3m, X5m, XM, X3 M40i, etc. is over saturation.

 

[SORIANOTRON]

now its basically a charger with a nicer interior

DRAMATIC AF LOL

never seen a charger handle anything besides a coffee mug

Let alone a track or a curvy road.

STOP IT.

 

[ALNotSure]

i think we'd have a different opinion on BMW if they at least kept the M badge on non-SUVs. you're right, everything is an M. i don't really mind the M340i or the like, but the X3m, X5m, XM, X3 M40i, etc. is over saturation.

The fwd based X1,x2 2 series grab coupe thing is peak “M”eh lol

 

[tr1ll]

Was the GTR really "soulless" or did it just cost too much? I feel like it'd be a lot more of them on the street if they were in the sub 60k range.

 

[SORIANOTRON]

Was the GTR really "soulless" or did it just cost too much? I feel like it'd be a lot more of them on the street if they were in the sub 60k range.

All over the road here on Oahu, never seen so many

 

[ALNotSure]

Was the GTR really "soulless" or did it just cost too much? I feel like it'd be a lot more of them on the street if they were in the sub 60k range.

GT-R was 60-70k in 2008 or so.. crazy when you think about it. Now it starts at 120k lol..

It always had mind bending performance and the price/performance was impossible to beat. But it always was a big awd techno car and never the most engaging. It is a GT-R.

 

[ALNotSure]

In other news Audi new A5/S5 is here for 2025. It also replaces the A4. No more coupe or convertible either. No manual. Mild hybrids. We won’t get the wagon.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a61588641/2025-audi-a5-s5-revealed/

At this rate values of cool old cars gonna continue to akyrocket.

 

[Mark Antony]

We won’t get the wagon

Every damn time, sheesh.

 

[picasso swerve]

I like the exterior but dear god that interior is awfu, especially the steering wheel.

 

[picasso swerve]

My guy. You're comparing the effect of weight on a GTR, an actual sports car to the effect of weight on a luxury sedan. Because that's exactly what an M5 is. It's a fast one but it's still a luxury sedan. Every tech, safety, comfort feature imaginable. Its such a nonsense comparison to make.

Like I said, you're completely missing the mark on the M5 market. The people buying these new want their heated and cooled seats, all the screens, 20 different drive modes, etc. They don't care that it's "soulless" because it's fast, it's big , it's comfortable, and it has a shiny M badge on it.

Here's the thing you need to realize. Not every car is for you and that's ok. Times change and markets change and that's ok too.

And here's another thing you need to realize. The weight, the tech, the electricification, the screens, etc. All the stuff that is "devaluing the badge", "selling their soul", etc. is necessary because nobody is buying what enthusiasts want save for a few niches like Lotus, Miatas, and a few 911s.

So it's either survive and have a chance at making some cool stuff or die off. Ask anyone that was around how foolish Porsche owners were acting when they started making the cayenne.

It'a funny that you say "I can tell you're an engineer and not a car enthusiast" as if it's an insult. I actually prefer it that way just like I don't want to be called a sneakerhead. I don't sit around and yearn for a world that doesn't exist anymore and then get mad when everything isn't catered to what I want.

BTW, it's hilarious that you assume I've never driven or owned any of these. I bought an F80 M3 with my first work bonus and because of all the meets I used to go to, I've driven probably 20 different M3s, M5s, an M6, and even an F87 M2.

This guy makes sense. Thats exactly who BMW is targeting. I woudnt goes as far as saying M cars are soulless nowadays. Everything was more raw back in the day cause the tech wasnt there, really an unfair way to judge things. Even GT3’s are gettinng more creature comforts and no one is gonna call that soulless. That being said, there are instances where thats true, look at the 1st gen vs 2nd gen NSX. Went from one of the best drivers cars ever to…that. If you want a modern day drivers car theres still cars for that.

 

[wear rare airs]

I can see both sides to this argument.

I think most of us in here are probably in the millenial age segment, so we remember which cars truly made an impression on us, and for M's of course it's going to be the NA motors.

I had an e46 M3 back in the day, and I would love to own another. I loved my E90 M3 even more though, but for some reason having sat in a clapped out one recently (high mileage, loud, slow) I couldn't wait to get out. It just isn't what I remember it to be after owning Porsches for 10+ years now.

I think as I age, the idea of a big body benz daily driver gets more and more appealing. So i'm not opposed to the new M5.

 

[bonde111]

Audi is dumb for not giving the US the wagon.