PROOF That Flywire Is Really Just Thread...Even On The Running Shoes

[nkwu11]

Elder, thanks for the update

I think one of the reason spike shoes have no lining/padding/tongue is because they are worn for a period of time comprised between 10 secs (100 m dash) to around 30 mins (10km run), these are just racing shoes, like dragsters or Formula 1 cars. They have limited life and you need maximum performance and perfect foot fit for short time, so comfort is not a primary target (...I believe they end to be uncomfortable, most of the times...look at how fast athletes unlace shoes after finish line or a single high/long jump...) so you really don't need padding inside.
Probaly flywire allows to reduce surrounding mesh fabric weight while keeping upper structure resistent and "foot friendly" matching its shape.


Oh yea, I definitely agree; I was just trying to explain some of the limitations that I saw with a simple transplant from the spike (where flywire was used toit's full effectiveness) to another application like a ball shoe. Basketball shoes and running shoes have that much more padding which has htat much moregive..etc.,e tc.,

Basketball shoes life varies a lot from pro players to amateurs, but it is important to get good comfort and foot protection while they have to offer peak performance for pros for short time (lunar foam vs zoom air) still keeping good reliability for at least 2-3 month of regular use for other competitive players.
So pure performance is balanced with durability and comfort.
Maybe flywire needs to be developed using a thicker fabric that embodies vectran fibers stitched in engineered directions (as usual) to offer support while providing needed flexibility, then other materials fibers (to be studied) should provide the padding necessary to have proper comfort. So you could finally eliminate inner bootie.
For sure. I like that idea of vectran with a thicker material for a comofrtable shoe....I'm curious tos ee if Nike tried to use flywire(thevectran or whatever they're using itself) to reinforce thicker synthetics like a synthetic leather...

 

[measy15]

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Originally Posted by DA HEN

I said heat it, not light it on fire. Guess you're not a technical kinda guy.

Hen.. you don't realize it but half the time I am being funny...

Bun set the record straight.. but like it has been posted.. YES.. I know better...

Flywire... Gimmick.
If the cabling theory were to really be put into effect.. the thread IMO would reach across the lacing.. not loop back around the lacing in some instances...

The Material "Flywire" (and I think I'll use the quotes for obvious reasons) is used on is alot more stable than the "flywire" itself.

However I think the Lebron will institute Flywire and Not "Flywire" due to its Pricepoint... Im just glad and hope Brons line will NEVER see Lunar or Lunar Lite or Lunar Heavy... EVER..

You and me both. I'm a rather big dude so I'd crush the cushioning in the Lebrons if they ever put Lunar poop in it. I love playing in my LBJ VI'scause of the full length Zoom Air. It really is the standard, IMO there's nothing that can compare.

 

[swerv1n]

Who cares....i'm buyin em reguardless ...not worth all the research

 

[eebs7eez]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by eeBS7eez

the cable theory never made sense to me either rock, i couldn't put together how it could create tensility from the way it is placed in the hyperdunk and most other models. the only way i would see it possibly helping is if it did somehow loop across , anchoring from one side ofthe midsole to the other.

that would require a slip-on structure similar to the presto's, but fitting would be nearly impossible. i imagine if the shoe was structured this way, it would be able to help with lateral stability, like the larger outriggers on tennis shoes.

to me, the placing on the hyperdunk can't realistically do its job...

Good point, though on the Air Max 09's it seems as if the plastic that encases the "flywire" actually keeps the stretchy material of the upper from stretching at the midfoot.

good point, man. i just took a look at that, and that is the only other way i saw flywire working other than making it like a presto. linking itto the eyelets forms the complete structure over the shoe, so as long as the laces are properly tightened, the air max 09 looks like it should do the trick.having the flywire inserted in just a panel doesn't do much beyond aesthetics, but the air max 09 looks like it could be very functional.

 

[eebs7eez]

Originally Posted by Swerv1n

flywire, air sole unit, shox, breathable mesh = GIMMICKS ..... i fall for it every time ......... n i love it

these innovations were crazy when they came out, man. zoomair? it makes any shoe feel like a cloud just with an insert alone.

 

[jfeezy]

Originally Posted by eeBS7eez

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by eeBS7eez

the cable theory never made sense to me either rock, i couldn't put together how it could create tensility from the way it is placed in the hyperdunk and most other models. the only way i would see it possibly helping is if it did somehow loop across , anchoring from one side ofthe midsole to the other.

that would require a slip-on structure similar to the presto's, but fitting would be nearly impossible. i imagine if the shoe was structured this way, it would be able to help with lateral stability, like the larger outriggers on tennis shoes.

to me, the placing on the hyperdunk can't realistically do its job...

Good point, though on the Air Max 09's it seems as if the plastic that encases the "flywire" actually keeps the stretchy material of the upper from stretching at the midfoot.

good point, man. i just took a look at that, and that is the only other way i saw flywire working other than making it like a presto. linking it to the eyelets forms the complete structure over the shoe, so as long as the laces are properly tightened, the air max 09 looks like it should do the trick. having the flywire inserted in just a panel doesn't do much beyond aesthetics, but the air max 09 looks like it could be very functional.

If you cut apart your Hyperdunks

you'd find that theFlywire lines actually do loop up and around the eyelets, thereby completing the circuit around the foot and locking the Flywire fibers downto the midsole on both sides... this detail is hidden under the synthetic eyestay, though, so it's not obvious.

Otherwise, you'd be correct... Flywire that's not locked down at both ends would not reinforce anything... that's the whole point.

To those questioning the makeup of the actual fibers... the strength of these types of thread (Kevlar, Vectran, high-end specialty Nylons or whatever) comesnot so much from the number of fibers in the thread, or how they're braided together, but the inherent strength of the material at the molecularlevel. So if you expect the thread to look/feel different to the naked eye, you're going to be disappointed. As I think someone pointed out,you'd see the difference on a tensile tester, but that's about it.

I am really glad to see ElderWatsonDiggs's update on his Air Max 2009 testing... (okay, first of all: 6'6", 250+, and a 5:27 pace?! Dayyumm... I feel shorter, fatter and slower than ever.) If you're not feeling any slippage or stretching, then 99.999% of people willnever have performance issues. Yes, the Olympic/high-end runners generally get special "price-is-no-object" PE models, so it's not really anissue to use materials for them that are orders-of-magnitude more expensive than the inline versions.

Rock, you know I respect you and your opinions... so let's just agree to disagree whether Flywire construction is a gimmick.

Though I will agree that, like any performance material/construction, theFlywire construction/aesthetic could be overly used/abused... just because carbon fiber is a strong/lightweight material doesn't mean it's useful orappropriate everywhere--you can't turn a rusty Honda Civic into an F1 racecar by adding a carbon fiber hood, carbon fiber shift knob, carbon fiber ashtray,etc. etc. (Sorry to disillusion any sixteen-year-old import tuners out there reading this...)

Okay, I've rambled enough... grumpy old man out.

 

[rockdeep]

jfeezy.. as always Bro.. thanks for your input.. and if YOU are old.. Then I am one foot in the grave!!! lololol

as for the agree to disagree.. I think we could be both be right if what you say is right. On the runners apparently the Flywire is being used much differentlyin its use than for Basketball...and from some of the video testing It doesn't appear the Flywire on the BB kicks are cabled in such a way to beeffective.. From what I see anyway..

BUT.. I believe in the Concept. I have said that repeatedly. The Concept is VERY much a feasible idea.. but the way it is used or is believed to be effective Ibelieve as far as Basketball goes is ineffective.

As for the new Next Gen Hypers.. who knows...\

But thanks again.. cause I know you KNOW KNOW your #+%.. and I acquesce to you when it comes to the technical side Sir..

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Jfeezy as well as the others, thanks for the input. I must say that now I'm a believer inFlywire...well at least in the running shoes. The basketball line I'm sure will come around in time. Thought I'd drop a few developmental pictures anda link from a Nike blog. My apologies upfront if this has already been posted.
http://inside.nike.com/bl...superfly-s-secret-weapon

 

[rodrigo23]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Elder.. dont worry my man.. you dont have to say Flywire is a gimmick...

I will.

Anyone EVER seen LARGE spools of String in a textile factory?

It is some of the most dense thread woven....and several World Strongest men couldn't pull it apart...

I'd trust THAT thread over this supposed Flywire supporting my shoes on sharp turns...

No doubt Rock, I took them back. I paid $170 including tax and BOTH pair had strings loose on them. So much for quality.

 

[blondsoccerplyr]

The Nike Vapor Superfly, a soccer cleat using a large amount of Flywire, has been shelved by Nike.

http://www.footy-boots.com/is-the-nike-superfly-defective-6464/

 

[elderwatsondiggs]

Originally Posted by blondsoccerplyr

The Nike Vapor Superfly, a soccer cleat using a large amount of Flywire, has been shelved by Nike.

http://www.footy-boots.com/is-the-nike-superfly-defective-6464/

When something malfunctions for the first time, you hope it's a one-off. When it happens a second time, then you know you have a problem. On the third occasion it's obvious that rather than just being a problem, it's become a trend.

Update: Nike have responded to the findings of this article - Nike Responds to Superfly Problem

The Nike Mercurial Vapor Superfly has experienced one of the most high profile launches in football boot history. Since it's unveiling, Nike has continued to put the considerable weight of its PR machine behind it and the boot has been worn by some of the world's top players. So, what on earth could go wrong?

Well, quite simply, it's beginning to look like the Superfly isn't up to the job.





Hmmmm, interesting.

 

[jfeezy]

Originally Posted by blondsoccerplyr

The Nike Vapor Superfly, a soccer cleat using a large amount of Flywire, has been shelved by Nike.

http://www.footy-boots.com/is-the-nike-superfly-defective-6464/

Hmmm... haven't heard about this yet. I'll have to ask around and find out what the real story is... it's impossible to tell from grainyframegrabs what the actual failure mode(s) are. Maybe it is Flywire-related, but my initial gut reaction is probably not... much like the highest-end trackshoes, the soccer guys are reeeeeally pushing the limits of lightweight/minimal construction, trying to shave every last possible gram. Again, I'mtotally speculating, talking out of my you-know-what here, but from the appearance of Drogba's torn sock and bleeding ankle in that photo, my guessis that he got cleated hard just above the collar, which opened up a tear across the collar that then propagated down through the thin quarter material,following one of the Flywire cables.

Anyway, yes, I for one will definitely keep an eye on this to see what develops...

 

[retr0sxual]

I don't think it would purely be a gimmick.

 

[wallyhopp]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Jfeezy as well as the others, thanks for the input. I must say that now I'm a believer in Flywire...well at least in the running shoes. The basketball line I'm sure will come around in time. Thought I'd drop a few developmental pictures and a link from a Nike blog. My apologies upfront if this has already been posted.
http://inside.nike.com/bl...superfly-s-secret-weapon

that reminds me of the zoom haven which is almost 10 years old. talk about recycled "reintroduced" and rehyped to the masses

The zoom haven had a lace locking system that connected both sides:

The whole lace locking system intertwined together to form a tight fitting shoe. The heel had a strap that came around from the side and combined it alltogether. In theory its almost like a more flexible BETTER form of flywire.. "Flywire you can control"

 

[randz4937]

the name flywire alone sounds gimiccky

 

[255forlife]

what isn't a gimmick these days?


i coulda sworn the major purpose of flywire was to LOOK COOL.. oh, just so conveniently comes in many different colors, too.


patent leather, clear soles, 3M, artist/player endorsement, exclusivity, and whatever else is the flavor of the moment sell way more nikes than technology does- that's just being real.

 

[jthagreat]

GREAT Post WallyHopp

 

[jfeezy]

Originally Posted by WallyHopp

that reminds me of the zoom haven which is almost 10 years old. talk about recycled "reintroduced" and rehyped to the masses

The zoom haven had a lace locking system that connected both sides:

The whole lace locking system intertwined together to form a tight fitting shoe. The heel had a strap that came around from the side and combined it all together. In theory its almost like a more flexible BETTER form of flywire.. "Flywire you can control"

Good callout, Wally... the Haven was a great shoe, ahead of its time, and deserves its cult following.

I wouldn't say, though, that Flywire is just a recycling/rehyping of the Zoom Haven concept... sure, it shares some DNA, but I'd call it more of anevolutionary, incremental improvement. The need for lightweight support that locks the foot down to the midsole is hardly a new design concept... the hardpart is coming up with ways to actually do it, and Flywire's basically following co-founder Bill Bowerman's philosophy of "Make it lighter!" And I'm sure Flywire's not the end-all-be-all of lightweight support, either... I'm sure there's several more concepts/improvements in thepipeline. Or maybe some other company will surprise us with an even better idea.

And, because your knowledge of past shoes is way more encyclopedic than mine (it seems like you always have the answers to people's "can anybody tellme the name of this shoe" posts) I bet you could probably find a half-dozen shoes that have used similar techniques without having to search too deeply...

 

[corporatejp]

Originally Posted by RockDeep


^^ I thought I did... lol

Flywire Functional = Poo Poo

Flywire Aesthetics = Greeeeaaaat!!!!

LOL @ you, Rock.

Flywire is more hype than function, but, yeah, there are some functional aspects.

Just don't let anyone fool you, this stuff was NOT found on the spaceship that crashed in Roswell, NM in the 1940's and improved upon.

...or was it?

Mmmm...

 

[xangelico]

Originally Posted by NCCUeagle

flywire=fishy

just like you=yr avy? (dont try to change yr avy, yr avy is this one:

)

 

[902kicks]

If you take a paper ball and wrap thread around it it'll be stronger.. it doesn't mean that it adds any support, it just keeps the show from fallingapart

 

[sole investigator]

And I'm sure Flywire's not the end-all-be-all of lightweight support, either... I'm sure there's several more concepts/improvements in the pipeline.


Boy, would it be interesting to see what they are cooking up...

 

[newbery158]

nice to know you broke this down CSI style...

 

[kidcloudkicker]

Didnt Husein Bolt wear some flywire nikes when he won that olympic race? I was told they were only good for one wear, thats how light they were lol.

 

[rockdeep]

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Yes...I went Grave digging...

I wanted to know.. with the emergence of the next generation Hypers.... why don't the Hypermax and Hyperlite have the same Flywire Patterns?

JFeez? Someone? I dont want to appear going off the deep end this go around.. so I'd like an informed opinion or authority on why if the Flywire isfucntional, do the patterns change on basketball shoes? i.e. If Cross strands are good for the 1st Gen.. why not the Next Gen?

Thanks in advance...