School Me On This Russia/Ukraine Kerfuffle

[tmay407]

another quarter billion worth of weapons, with no end in sight

I’ve heard a lot of mixed rhetoric on this, but most of what we’re sending them is aging stock that most likely wouldn’t be used (though it’s looking more likely by the day that we could still effectively use it in the relatively near future if needed). It’s already been paid for, so the dollar amounts really don’t matter. This is like if I gave you a PS2 today. I have to tell you it was priced at $200 or whatever was initially spent, but the value today is actually like $35.

A lot of people with service experience/knowledge of what’s happening say that we’re not replenishing those stocks at a sustainable level though and we don’t have the current infrastructure to bounce the inventory back up should these regional conflicts escalate into something more.

 

[lovehateself]

So all this just so the US gets to spend more on weapons that will sit on the shelves

*throws more money into Halliburton stock

 

[tmay407]

So all this just so the US gets to spend more on weapons that will sit on the shelves

*throws more money into Halliburton stock

That’s already never really a bad idea, but especially not a bad idea with multiple regional conflicts currently going on and more brewing.

 

[sneeker]

So all this just so the US gets to spend more on weapons that will sit on the shelves

*throws more money into Halliburton stock

that's not how it actually works. the money spent on defense contractors is already a set budget and it will just get more expensive, not just when it comes to spending on military equipment but on various government department. they have to spend all of it. the time that you decide to save or underspend the budget, that is where the government would cut your budget and nobody wants that.

so the politicians that talk about cutting the budget are just posturing on matters that wouldn't really happen at all, especially if that would give them money and help them elected/re-elected. the only department though that seems to be a target is more likely the education department.

 

[John Wick]

ok now both sides really going tit for tat all weekend they been striking each other civilians. crazy to see Ukraine now utilizing Russian tactics. That must of been a real important russian ship them Ukrainian's sunk

still no end in sight for this conflict.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Given that we're literally funding a Palestinian genocide right now..... do ya'll still think the the U.S was doing this to stop innocent people from getting attacked by their blood thirsty neighbors??

 

[John Wick]

Old but gold



This thread fell off bad since my first post

Pray for Ukraine?? Ha! Cant make this stuff up.






I see im late. Yea im neutral on this. Hate to be a both sider but i see problems on both sides that lead to this.

Still neutral on this conflict

Free palenstine

 

[John Wick]

 

[John Wick]

damn i bet this interview going to do numbers.

 

[wavycrocket]

Still neutral on this conflict

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[htg designs]

damn i bet this interview going to do numbers.

Yea this gon hit. Imagine Putin on Club Shayshay tho. They would need at least 3 translators between the two of them.

 

[John Wick]

damn Ukraine again smh

 

[John Wick]

interesting

 

[wavycrocket]

interesting

We know you loved it man

 

[John Wick]

We know you loved it man

And i know none of yall watched it

 

[Belgium]

Given that we're literally funding a Palestinian genocide right now..... do ya'll still think the the U.S was doing this to stop innocent people from getting attacked by their blood thirsty neighbors??

Nobody who hasn't had a lobotomy thinks the US and other countries are funding Ukraine out of goodwill.
For some individual government officials it might be, but the overall policy is to counter Russian aggression and encroachment on Europe's borders.

Likewise, Israel has been a longtime ally of many of those same countries. Israel is by far the best source of intelligence in the Middle East, and they are quite willing to share that with certain allies. They're a lot more democratic than other countries in the region, have fostered good relationships with many allied countries and they often do business.
Geopolitically speaking, the Palestinian's plight has no value to the countries still supporting Israel throughout it's genocidal campaign.

The genocide against Palestinians is a humanitarian issue, which is generally not something most countries care about unless it affects a broader geopolitical goal.

 

[trynafeelmink]

So your telling me i should be fine with the government spending billions upon billions on Ukraine, while the media made it seem as if "evil" Russia was bullying them.... because it's par of course of this terrible system

Thanks i guess

 

[John Wick]

Nobody who hasn't had a lobotomy thinks the US and other countries are funding Ukraine out of goodwill.
For some individual government officials it might be, but the overall policy is to counter Russian aggression and encroachment on Europe's borders.

Take all the Palestinian talk to the Israel thread.

But i will ask you this Belgium when has Russia encroached on any European borders? I’m specifically talking about the Schengen states and NATO countries…

While NATO has been constantly expanding…

Who is encroaching more here?

I come in peace.

 

[biggie62]

NATO is a country and a threat now who has taken land from a sovereign state now?

I mean your name at least makes sense when thinking about papa Vladdy supporter being that John Wick is Belarus. Not the name I’d choose being a Russian sympathizer but you do you.

 

[Belgium]

Take all the Palestinian talk to the Israel thread.

But i will ask you this Belgium when has Russia encroached on any European borders? I’m specifically talking about the Schengen states and NATO countries…

While NATO has been constantly expanding…

Who is encroaching more here?

I come in peace.

I was just giving an example to illustrate my point that geopolitics is generally what drives these kind of actions.

Russia is in the process of encroaching on European borders by its invasion of Ukraine, which borders Poland. I'm not sure what you meant with this point.
Ukraine used to be part of the Soviet Union, sure, but that's in the past. Putin does not recognize Ukraine's sovereignty and has long been wanting to seize it back as part of the Russian Federation. First through invading Crimea and now with a full invasion.


As for comparing an international protection agreement to literally invading a country, that's an absurd comparison.
NATO is not an offensive agreement, it is defensive.

The reason Ukraine wanted to join NATO so desperately was because the agreement would've granted them protection from a Russian invasion, at least on paper.
A reason some other NATO countries didn't want them to join was because of the likelihood Putin would imminently invade Ukraine and that the member nations could be forced to go to war with Russia. If anything, the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO likely forced Putin's hand.
If Ukraine was a NATO member, attacking them would mean going to war with NATO member countries.

 

[John Wick]

NATO is a country and a threat now who has taken land from a sovereign state now?

I mean your name at least makes sense when thinking about papa Vladdy supporter being that John Wick is Belarus. Not the name I’d choose being a Russian sympathizer but you do you.

what are you even trying to say here? I can care less that my user name relates to some opinions I have I can also care less what y'all think of me personally.

Im here to debate and find common ground on this issue.

but I see what you on already with the childish name calling.

we dont need any more nato countries being added.

The reason Ukraine wanted to join NATO so desperately was because the agreement would've granted them protection from a Russian invasion, at least on paper. The reason many other countries didn't want them to join was because of the likelihood Putin would invade Ukraine and that the member nations could be forced to go to war with Russia.

This is where we have common ground

USA and some nato countries at that time agreed that we would not allow baltic states and we still allowed lituannia Estonia and Latvia in with no issue and even now finland who shares a border. Putin could of invaded all 3 of those countries before we allowed them in 2004 just like he did Ukraine.

We cannot choose who are neighbor country be we ought to make friends and peace with our border countries wish USA could fix their border issue with Mexico and stop demonizing immigrants looking for a better way of life.

but one country we all agreed had to be a neutral state was Ukraine for this very reason that Russia would invade....

Why would Ukraine still want to push for NATO membership knowing this could be an outcome?? It was no secret this would happen.

This is the very reason why they were not allowed in because no one wants another global war....

 

[Belgium]

what are you even trying to say here? I can care less that my user name relates to some opinions I have I can also care less what y'all think of me personally.

Im here to debate and find common ground on this issue.

but I see what you on already with the childish name calling.

we dont need any more nato countries being added.



This is where we have common ground

USA and some nato countries at that time agreed that we would not allow baltic states and we still allowed lituannia Estonia and Latvia in with no issue and even now finland who shares a border. Putin could of invaded all 3 of those countries before we allowed them in 2004 just like he did Ukraine.

We cannot choose who are neighbor country be we ought to make friends and peace with our border countries wish USA could fix their border issue with Mexico and stop demonizing immigrants looking for a better way of life.

but one country we all agreed had to be a neutral state was Ukraine for this very reason that Russia would invade....

Why would Ukraine still want to push for NATO membership knowing this could be an outcome?? It was no secret this would happen.

This is the very reason why they were not allowed in because no one wants another global war....

Are you seriously asking why Ukraine still wanted to push for NATO membership? They were seeking protection from an invasion that was going to happen either way.
What other option did they have?

Option 1: Don't push for NATO membership
Result: Get invaded by Russia

Option 2: Push for NATO membership
Result: Get invaded by Russia, but a little sooner than Putin would've liked


If their push to join NATO was successful, they would've been safe from a Russian invasion. Even with his longstanding Ukraine obsession, Putin wouldn't cause a war with all of NATO just to try and seize Ukraine.

 

[John Wick]

Are you seriously asking why Ukraine still wanted to push for NATO membership? They were seeking protection from an invasion that was going to happen either way.
What other option did they have?

Option 1: Don't push for NATO membership
Result: Get invaded by Russia

Option 2: Push for NATO membership
Result: Get invaded by Russia, but a little sooner than Putin would've liked

you speaking on all these hypotheticals you have no way knowing it was going to happen either way

Why do you think Russia would be going to invade are you skipping over all the events that lead up to the invasion? There were so many events that happened over the last 10 years that pushed Russia to invade like the Minsk agreement not being upheld. You had a bunch of rogue right wing militias/vigliantes in eastern Ukraine (Azov) who messed up the whole agreement

you can't sit up here and say Russia was no doubt going to invade without looking at the events that lead up to the invasion there were failed attempts on peace on both sides.

and since you just know Russia was going to invade why didnt we allow Ukraine into NATO to prevent a war before he invaded?

 

[Belgium]

Why do you think Russia would be going to invade are you skipping over all the events that lead up to the invasion? There were so many events that happened over the last 10 years that pushed Russia to invade like the Minsk agreement not being upheld. You had a bunch of rogue right wing militias/vigliantes who messed up the whole agreement

you can't sit up here and say Russia was no doubt going to invade without looking at the events that lead up to the invasion there were failed attempts on peace on both sides.

You're conveniently ignoring why the Minsk 1 and 2 agreements were even established in the first place. Because Russia successfully invaded and annexed Crimea.

Putin's been obsessing over Ukraine for years and his previous invasion was successful. Of course he was going to double down and go for the whole pizza instead of just a slice.