Should we tax churches? (Not time to bash religion, we're talking about money)

[crcballer55]

After watching the video, it's pretty misleading.  As a nonprofit, most churches are required to disclose their revenues upon request.  This is part of the Patriot Act to prevent nonprofit organizations from secretly funding terrorist activities.

If the "documentarian" did his homework, he could have asked most of the mega churches for their financials rather than just painting the entire tent with the same brush.  I would also like to know what qualifies as a "mega church".  1400 seems pretty excessive.

 

[cuteuglyhaha]

 

[cuteuglyhaha]

 

[jfdoom]

@73%

 

[jfdoom]

@73%

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by crcballer55

After watching the video, it's pretty misleading.  As a nonprofit, most churches are required to disclose their revenues upon request.  This is part of the Patriot Act to prevent nonprofit organizations from secretly funding terrorist activities.

If the "documentarian" did his homework, he could have asked most of the mega churches for their financials rather than just painting the entire tent with the same brush.  I would also like to know what qualifies as a "mega church".  1400 seems pretty excessive.

Really? 

On request? How often do you REALLY think that happens? Rarely. Companies like united way or "(insert civil rights leader) Feed the Hungry" are more likely to be investigated on a regular basis...

  Like how often do you think Christian Churches will be funding terrorist activities? On top of that...on average only churches that are in severe irreparable financial damage end up disclosing revenues. 

BTW, megachurches are defined as around 2000+ people according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megachurch

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by crcballer55

After watching the video, it's pretty misleading.  As a nonprofit, most churches are required to disclose their revenues upon request.  This is part of the Patriot Act to prevent nonprofit organizations from secretly funding terrorist activities.

If the "documentarian" did his homework, he could have asked most of the mega churches for their financials rather than just painting the entire tent with the same brush.  I would also like to know what qualifies as a "mega church".  1400 seems pretty excessive.

Really? 

On request? How often do you REALLY think that happens? Rarely. Companies like united way or "(insert civil rights leader) Feed the Hungry" are more likely to be investigated on a regular basis...

  Like how often do you think Christian Churches will be funding terrorist activities? On top of that...on average only churches that are in severe irreparable financial damage end up disclosing revenues. 

BTW, megachurches are defined as around 2000+ people according to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megachurch

 

[usainboltisfast]

Originally Posted by JFDOOM

@73%

You guys sound really ignorant right now. The rich NEED to be taxed more. They have been getting taxcuts for the last decade. People think that only the wealthiest people can create jobs but thats a giant lie. The government is more than capable of creating new jobs. You can not expect people to look out for the better good of this country time and time again this philosiphy has failed in our country. Regulation is needed and the rich NEED to be taxed more. The country operated PERFECTLY with higher taxes throughout the 30s to the 70s. You guys are brainwashed with this reganomics thinking that lower taxes = good. Lower taxes = worse schools, worse social welfare programs, more unemployment, and lower living condition. I can tell most of you guys know nothing about the history of the US and how the economy worked when our economy was something worth talking about. You let these corporate fat cats take control of our country and ruin it. You guys protect these people in these tax brackets you will never be in and you wonder why you get the shaft of everything. Dont worry about the rich worry about yourself first.Their is more of us than there are them and you better believe they could care less about how your living.

 

[usainboltisfast]

Originally Posted by JFDOOM

@73%

You guys sound really ignorant right now. The rich NEED to be taxed more. They have been getting taxcuts for the last decade. People think that only the wealthiest people can create jobs but thats a giant lie. The government is more than capable of creating new jobs. You can not expect people to look out for the better good of this country time and time again this philosiphy has failed in our country. Regulation is needed and the rich NEED to be taxed more. The country operated PERFECTLY with higher taxes throughout the 30s to the 70s. You guys are brainwashed with this reganomics thinking that lower taxes = good. Lower taxes = worse schools, worse social welfare programs, more unemployment, and lower living condition. I can tell most of you guys know nothing about the history of the US and how the economy worked when our economy was something worth talking about. You let these corporate fat cats take control of our country and ruin it. You guys protect these people in these tax brackets you will never be in and you wonder why you get the shaft of everything. Dont worry about the rich worry about yourself first.Their is more of us than there are them and you better believe they could care less about how your living.

 

[dwele farooq al suleed afzul]

My parents used to run the church they attend on the interrim basis. The amount of money churches bring in is ASTOUNDING. It's not even a mega church, on average Sunday attendance is like 500 and they were still paying the Pastor 80k a year plus he had a vehicle (a Cadillac), an expense account, a credit card, flying him all over the place, etc. He turned out to be corrupt as hell and was stealing money and buying his daughter cars, payed her way to Mississippi State, had a few porn site accounts which he was also accessing on the Church computer and phone and paying with the church credit card, got 3 sexual harassment suits against him from female administration members (she said dude dropped his penis on her inbox on her desk

), I mean it's just hilarious. You can't even make this stuff up. If anybody else in regular society did this, they'd be thrown under the jail. He just got removed from office by a vote which he barely lost.

But yes, they should be taxed. They use tax funded services (police, fire departments, roads, etc.). And even if we weren't in a recession, I'd say the same

 

[dwele farooq al suleed afzul]

My parents used to run the church they attend on the interrim basis. The amount of money churches bring in is ASTOUNDING. It's not even a mega church, on average Sunday attendance is like 500 and they were still paying the Pastor 80k a year plus he had a vehicle (a Cadillac), an expense account, a credit card, flying him all over the place, etc. He turned out to be corrupt as hell and was stealing money and buying his daughter cars, payed her way to Mississippi State, had a few porn site accounts which he was also accessing on the Church computer and phone and paying with the church credit card, got 3 sexual harassment suits against him from female administration members (she said dude dropped his penis on her inbox on her desk

), I mean it's just hilarious. You can't even make this stuff up. If anybody else in regular society did this, they'd be thrown under the jail. He just got removed from office by a vote which he barely lost.

But yes, they should be taxed. They use tax funded services (police, fire departments, roads, etc.). And even if we weren't in a recession, I'd say the same

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by Dwele Farooq Al Suleed Afzul

My parents used to run the church they attend on the interrim basis. The amount of money churches bring in is ASTOUNDING. It's not even a mega church, on average Sunday attendance is like 500 and they were still paying the Pastor 80k a year plus he had a vehicle (a Cadillac), an expense account, a credit card, flying him all over the place, etc. He turned out to be corrupt as hell and was stealing money and buying his daughter cars, payed her way to Mississippi State, had a few porn site accounts which he was also accessing on the Church computer and phone and paying with the church credit card, got 3 sexual harassment suits against him from female administration members (she said dude dropped his penis on her inbox on her desk

), I mean it's just hilarious. You can't even make this stuff up. If anybody else in regular society did this, they'd be thrown under the jail. He just got removed from office by a vote which he barely lost.

But yes, they should be taxed. They use tax funded services (police, fire departments, roads, etc.). And even if we weren't in a recession, I'd say the same

  

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by Dwele Farooq Al Suleed Afzul

My parents used to run the church they attend on the interrim basis. The amount of money churches bring in is ASTOUNDING. It's not even a mega church, on average Sunday attendance is like 500 and they were still paying the Pastor 80k a year plus he had a vehicle (a Cadillac), an expense account, a credit card, flying him all over the place, etc. He turned out to be corrupt as hell and was stealing money and buying his daughter cars, payed her way to Mississippi State, had a few porn site accounts which he was also accessing on the Church computer and phone and paying with the church credit card, got 3 sexual harassment suits against him from female administration members (she said dude dropped his penis on her inbox on her desk

), I mean it's just hilarious. You can't even make this stuff up. If anybody else in regular society did this, they'd be thrown under the jail. He just got removed from office by a vote which he barely lost.

But yes, they should be taxed. They use tax funded services (police, fire departments, roads, etc.). And even if we weren't in a recession, I'd say the same

  

 

[usainboltisfast]

 

[usainboltisfast]

 

[highman]

Render onto ceaser that which is ceasers....

 

[highman]

Render onto ceaser that which is ceasers....

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by HighMan

Render onto ceaser that which is ceasers....

Do you know how many biblical scholars have interpreted this phrase? Its easily one of the most ambiguous phrases in the whole damn book.
BTW, this is America. If we wanted to "render unto caesar" then that would call for fundies to keep religion out of our schools, our pledge, and other forms of legislation... so much for that, huh? 




Also what about Romans 13:1-7 ?

 [sup]1[/sup] Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.[sup]2[/sup] Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. [sup]3[/sup] For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. [sup]4[/sup] For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. [sup]5[/sup] Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
 [sup]6[/sup] This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. [sup]7[/sup] Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by HighMan

Render onto ceaser that which is ceasers....

Do you know how many biblical scholars have interpreted this phrase? Its easily one of the most ambiguous phrases in the whole damn book.
BTW, this is America. If we wanted to "render unto caesar" then that would call for fundies to keep religion out of our schools, our pledge, and other forms of legislation... so much for that, huh? 




Also what about Romans 13:1-7 ?

 [sup]1[/sup] Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.[sup]2[/sup] Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. [sup]3[/sup] For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. [sup]4[/sup] For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. [sup]5[/sup] Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
 [sup]6[/sup] This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. [sup]7[/sup] Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by Tupac Jordan

For all of you wanting churches to be taxed I hope you enjoy your time in hell.

 

[crcballer55]

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by JFDOOM

@73%

You guys sound really ignorant right now. The rich NEED to be taxed more. They have been getting taxcuts for the last decade. People think that only the wealthiest people can create jobs but thats a giant lie. The government is more than capable of creating new jobs. You can not expect people to look out for the better good of this country time and time again this philosiphy has failed in our country. Regulation is needed and the rich NEED to be taxed more. The country operated PERFECTLY with higher taxes throughout the 30s to the 70s. You guys are brainwashed with this reganomics thinking that lower taxes = good. Lower taxes = worse schools, worse social welfare programs, more unemployment, and lower living condition. I can tell most of you guys know nothing about the history of the US and how the economy worked when our economy was something worth talking about. You let these corporate fat cats take control of our country and ruin it. You guys protect these people in these tax brackets you will never be in and you wonder why you get the shaft of everything. Dont worry about the rich worry about yourself first.Their is more of us than there are them and you better believe they could care less about how your living.

The states in the worst fiscal state right now also happen to be the highest taxed (California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey).  Taxes are not the issue.  It's the expansion of the programs.  As stated before, the tax exemption is so that churches and other nonprofits can implement programs on a more efficient basis than the government can.  That's how we got along for the first 150 years of this nation's history.

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by Tupac Jordan

For all of you wanting churches to be taxed I hope you enjoy your time in hell.

 

[crcballer55]

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by JFDOOM

@73%

You guys sound really ignorant right now. The rich NEED to be taxed more. They have been getting taxcuts for the last decade. People think that only the wealthiest people can create jobs but thats a giant lie. The government is more than capable of creating new jobs. You can not expect people to look out for the better good of this country time and time again this philosiphy has failed in our country. Regulation is needed and the rich NEED to be taxed more. The country operated PERFECTLY with higher taxes throughout the 30s to the 70s. You guys are brainwashed with this reganomics thinking that lower taxes = good. Lower taxes = worse schools, worse social welfare programs, more unemployment, and lower living condition. I can tell most of you guys know nothing about the history of the US and how the economy worked when our economy was something worth talking about. You let these corporate fat cats take control of our country and ruin it. You guys protect these people in these tax brackets you will never be in and you wonder why you get the shaft of everything. Dont worry about the rich worry about yourself first.Their is more of us than there are them and you better believe they could care less about how your living.

The states in the worst fiscal state right now also happen to be the highest taxed (California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey).  Taxes are not the issue.  It's the expansion of the programs.  As stated before, the tax exemption is so that churches and other nonprofits can implement programs on a more efficient basis than the government can.  That's how we got along for the first 150 years of this nation's history.

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by crcballer55

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by JFDOOM

@73%

You guys sound really ignorant right now. The rich NEED to be taxed more. They have been getting taxcuts for the last decade. People think that only the wealthiest people can create jobs but thats a giant lie. The government is more than capable of creating new jobs. You can not expect people to look out for the better good of this country time and time again this philosiphy has failed in our country. Regulation is needed and the rich NEED to be taxed more. The country operated PERFECTLY with higher taxes throughout the 30s to the 70s. You guys are brainwashed with this reganomics thinking that lower taxes = good. Lower taxes = worse schools, worse social welfare programs, more unemployment, and lower living condition. I can tell most of you guys know nothing about the history of the US and how the economy worked when our economy was something worth talking about. You let these corporate fat cats take control of our country and ruin it. You guys protect these people in these tax brackets you will never be in and you wonder why you get the shaft of everything. Dont worry about the rich worry about yourself first.Their is more of us than there are them and you better believe they could care less about how your living.

The states in the worst fiscal state right now also happen to be the highest taxed (California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey).  Taxes are not the issue.  It's the expansion of the programs.  As stated before, the tax exemption is so that churches and other nonprofits can implement programs on a more efficient basis than the government can.  That's how we got along for the first 150 years of this nation's history.

I agree...Taxes won't solve ALL the problems...but they will help. I think taxing them will allow them to REALLY start implementing those programs better. When you know that the government is coming to get its cut, you'll damn sure be thinking more about fiscal responsibility and allocation knowing that there are more rules you have to follow. 
No one is denying the general good that some churches do but the fat needs to be trimmed. Reform IS needed in a lot of areas. 

The real reason this country is screwed is because we dont produce anything of value here anymore and our entire infrastructure is diminishing...but thats another story... 

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by crcballer55

Originally Posted by usainboltisfast

Originally Posted by JFDOOM

@73%

You guys sound really ignorant right now. The rich NEED to be taxed more. They have been getting taxcuts for the last decade. People think that only the wealthiest people can create jobs but thats a giant lie. The government is more than capable of creating new jobs. You can not expect people to look out for the better good of this country time and time again this philosiphy has failed in our country. Regulation is needed and the rich NEED to be taxed more. The country operated PERFECTLY with higher taxes throughout the 30s to the 70s. You guys are brainwashed with this reganomics thinking that lower taxes = good. Lower taxes = worse schools, worse social welfare programs, more unemployment, and lower living condition. I can tell most of you guys know nothing about the history of the US and how the economy worked when our economy was something worth talking about. You let these corporate fat cats take control of our country and ruin it. You guys protect these people in these tax brackets you will never be in and you wonder why you get the shaft of everything. Dont worry about the rich worry about yourself first.Their is more of us than there are them and you better believe they could care less about how your living.

The states in the worst fiscal state right now also happen to be the highest taxed (California, Illinois, New York, New Jersey).  Taxes are not the issue.  It's the expansion of the programs.  As stated before, the tax exemption is so that churches and other nonprofits can implement programs on a more efficient basis than the government can.  That's how we got along for the first 150 years of this nation's history.

I agree...Taxes won't solve ALL the problems...but they will help. I think taxing them will allow them to REALLY start implementing those programs better. When you know that the government is coming to get its cut, you'll damn sure be thinking more about fiscal responsibility and allocation knowing that there are more rules you have to follow. 
No one is denying the general good that some churches do but the fat needs to be trimmed. Reform IS needed in a lot of areas. 

The real reason this country is screwed is because we dont produce anything of value here anymore and our entire infrastructure is diminishing...but thats another story...