- 53,286
- 20,851
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2009
Mad about what?
(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by rexanglorum,
- Start date
- 23,082
- 8,730
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2012
the show nk ending. everyone in show t hread seems to be mad..
dont see a problem with it. cuz i know book will be vastly different
dont see a problem with it. cuz i know book will be vastly different
- 32,825
- 11,941
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
I was fine with it. They’re mad because they expected a big showdown between Arya and Jon and they didn’t get that. I don’t even think him losing like that is out of character. It’s the only way that really made sense cuz he wasn’t going to catch a fade against Jon in a straight up fair one and they weren’t beating that army on the field.
People are just salty their predictions didn’t pan out and they didn’t get the mass deaths they wanted either which, lol, that was never going to happen because you still need someone to talk in the last 3 eps.
I think they’re mostly mad because it feels like a denial of Jon = Azor Ahai.
People are just salty their predictions didn’t pan out and they didn’t get the mass deaths they wanted either which, lol, that was never going to happen because you still need someone to talk in the last 3 eps.
I think they’re mostly mad because it feels like a denial of Jon = Azor Ahai.
- 53,286
- 20,851
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2009
I’m disappointed in that all the R’hollor stuff seemed to be finished with Melisandre bae gone now. Was expecting more.
- 10,799
- 3,525
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2005
But why deny us Jon being Azor Ahai when that’s what GRRM laid out?
They said they changed it because “It didn’t feel right to them” but that they only made the change around 3 years ago. Why build it up for the majority of the show and then drop it? Because they just wanted to subvert the audience?
The whole episode came off as lame fan fiction but at the end of the day I guess I need to accept that’s all it is.
- 53,286
- 20,851
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2009
The show guys said they changed it? I didn’t know that.
- 34,828
- 46,538
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2009
They didn’t change it, they can do whatever the hell they want. NK isn’t even a character in the book. This episode was essentially fan fiction.
My guess is GRRM himself doesn’t know how to end The Others storyline and that’s one of the reasons for TWOW holdup.
My guess is GRRM himself doesn’t know how to end The Others storyline and that’s one of the reasons for TWOW holdup.
- 10,799
- 3,525
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2005
NK is a character in the books though. Whether he exists in the present timeline of the books is still a question. Either way it’s less about Arya shutting him down and more about the change and eventual denial of the entire Azor Ahai storyline. Which, yeah they can do whatever the hell they want but why build it up and then change course.
- 23,082
- 8,730
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2012
The azor ahai story line in the book has never even been remotely correlated with Jon tho.
The books have never been linear in what people belive them to be so to be mad hes not azor ahai is the silliest reason ive ever heard.
And thats even IF.....R+L =J cuz you forget young griff is still in the picture.
The last time grrm and D&D consulted about book &show stuff was over 5 years ago now. And we only heard that he told them "AN" ending but not "THE" ending.
You can also tell the the show has been doing huge condensing/fan service since season 4...
So what are you really mad about?
The books have never been linear in what people belive them to be so to be mad hes not azor ahai is the silliest reason ive ever heard.
And thats even IF.....R+L =J cuz you forget young griff is still in the picture.
The last time grrm and D&D consulted about book &show stuff was over 5 years ago now. And we only heard that he told them "AN" ending but not "THE" ending.
You can also tell the the show has been doing huge condensing/fan service since season 4...
So what are you really mad about?
- 32,825
- 11,941
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
From the TV thread but I thought I'd share my Arya TV theory in here too in case it's worth a book discussion:
She uses Rhollor based blood magic to move super quietly and fast. In theory, SHE, not Jon, is the direct counter to the white walkers because she is the fire-bred human embodiment of death, same way NK is of the ice and the "evil" great other.
Just like she used the misdirect to stab NK, the writers the whole time kept talking about Jon, Dany, and dragon fire, while distracting you from the fact that in your face Arya was out there training under the lord of light to kill with impunity and then resurrect those she killed (in the form of faces and personas that she wears) just like NK does his victims.
**** I should share this post in the book thread
- 32,825
- 11,941
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
link to the interview with them talking about it?
- 23,082
- 8,730
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2012
He gotta be mixing up show with book because Azor ahai was never mentioned in the show.
And iirc and im about 90% confident.
mel only mentioned azor once and never actually said "Azor ahai" she said the prince that was promised.
Also mel isnt the only one to mention azor. There are other red priestiess preaching the same thing
And iirc and im about 90% confident.
mel only mentioned azor once and never actually said "Azor ahai" she said the prince that was promised.
Also mel isnt the only one to mention azor. There are other red priestiess preaching the same thing
District of Columbia
formerly dcmade
- 8,224
- 3,922
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2013
That’s exactly my point. Even if Jon wasn’t Azor Ahai then why build up the entire show to this huge looming threat and then go completely left.
- 10,799
- 3,525
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2005
Watch the video I posted above. It’s not all the mentions but you are correct that no one ever directly said “Azor Ahai” in the show. Only the prophecy is referenced and the prince who was promised which there is a slight argument that they are different people/things but I consider them one in the same.
At some point they just decided to go a different direction. It is what it is. We’ll see what George does but it’s not going to be anything like that.
- 23,082
- 8,730
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2012
I've never considered them the same person just through the difference of people who talk about it..but i think its all a matter of interpretation which is why i think so many people are mad.
Again this isnt the jon snow show. And there are many other charachters people love. I see the gripe about not having him and NK fight. But comeone NK wouldve washed him. There arent to many scenarios where a sneak attack wouldn't have happened or needed to happen to beat him. Jon still served such a greater purpise than going 1 v 1
Again this isnt the jon snow show. And there are many other charachters people love. I see the gripe about not having him and NK fight. But comeone NK wouldve washed him. There arent to many scenarios where a sneak attack wouldn't have happened or needed to happen to beat him. Jon still served such a greater purpise than going 1 v 1
- 7,131
- 14,595
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2012
Wasn’t Rhaegar obsessed with the Azor Ahai prophecy though? And didn’t he believe his son would be the prince that was promised? And don’t most signs point to Griff being a fraud?
I read an interview with D&D and they said when they had their initial meeting with GRRM he asked them one question: who is Jon Snow’s mother? They didn’t reveal the answer but said they got it right. Obviously now we know they are team R+L =J. So based on that people are all in on Jon.
- 23,082
- 8,730
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2012
All we know from rhaegar is that he was a bookish kid loved singing...
Read one particular book the. Wanted to be a warrior all of a sudden m because he believed in A prophecy...but not exactly. THAT prophecy
This whole grrm told d&d everything story line im starting to barely believe. His own editors and cowriters have admitted to nit knowing the whole story.
I believe grrm gave em something they can use for the show. But not exactly everything he wanted to do with the books . a magician doesnt reveal his secrets. So why would someone whose been working on these books for over 20 years just tell some directors everything so they can make money on a show that was only originallly suppose to be 6 seasons.
Read one particular book the. Wanted to be a warrior all of a sudden m because he believed in A prophecy...but not exactly. THAT prophecy
This whole grrm told d&d everything story line im starting to barely believe. His own editors and cowriters have admitted to nit knowing the whole story.
I believe grrm gave em something they can use for the show. But not exactly everything he wanted to do with the books . a magician doesnt reveal his secrets. So why would someone whose been working on these books for over 20 years just tell some directors everything so they can make money on a show that was only originallly suppose to be 6 seasons.
- 34,828
- 46,538
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2009
He probably told them about the final ending of ADOS which resolves the final conflict with Cersei and Jon v Dany for the Iron Throne. Doubt he told them anything about The Others which is why they've been coming up with their own **** for that story for the past 3 years.
- 621
- 323
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2001
Unless he highly underestimated how long it would take to get this book out
Also wondering how this Jon/Young Griff thing is gonna work in the books. Maybe D&D combined their storylines to make the show more concise. 2 Aegon Targaryens would be weird.
Only person to really be mad at is GRRM. Because now there is even more pressure on him delivering a suitable ending than there was when there was no show
- 23,082
- 8,730
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2012
in an interview they said GRRM gave them bullet points to work with (let's say a list of 10) and they only used like 4/5 of them because they wanted to take out some of the magical Fantasy elements of the show.
Can't really be mad at GRRM tho. if anything he's ingenious.
waiting for the show to end he can guage what people liked and disliked... but it's also his story he can make any end he wants... he's said numerous times this isn't going to be a happy go lucky story. On top of nothing to be mad about because his story so far is great. because of all the elements. and houses and details.
no one is mad at the actual story. people are just mad we don't have the other 2 books.
I know thats what you're saying but i dont think it's about the story's ending because we all know it's goign to be good..
the book has been all about misdirection.
maybe if the show only watchers start reading they'll be mad at several outcomes. but the book people know theres no real way to go downhill
Can't really be mad at GRRM tho. if anything he's ingenious.
waiting for the show to end he can guage what people liked and disliked... but it's also his story he can make any end he wants... he's said numerous times this isn't going to be a happy go lucky story. On top of nothing to be mad about because his story so far is great. because of all the elements. and houses and details.
no one is mad at the actual story. people are just mad we don't have the other 2 books.
I know thats what you're saying but i dont think it's about the story's ending because we all know it's goign to be good..
the book has been all about misdirection.
maybe if the show only watchers start reading they'll be mad at several outcomes. but the book people know theres no real way to go downhill
- 8,727
- 5,688
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
In your theory. Are you saying that the many face god is the lord of light?
- 8,727
- 5,688
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2014
But doesn't Rhaegar mention the bleeding star which he thought was a comet?
- 32,825
- 11,941
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
I think the lord of light is part of what Jaqen refers to as the MFG. One of many in the same.
- 43,132
- 28,116
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2003
I'm taking this as expensive fan fiction. This is far from what the books will be if they ever drop.
Part of me thinks he's having issues closing up most of what he introduced, which makes sense considering what the show's been so far this season.
Part of me thinks he's having issues closing up most of what he introduced, which makes sense considering what the show's been so far this season.
- 10,259
- 11,898
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2012
I'm not annoyed at the show leaving out certain characters or plot points due to TV shows having their time and budget limits, but it just baffles me when I see the show completely butcher certain characters for no reason. I see people defending the show by saying "Oh, it's GRRM's fault because he hasn't finished the books and has too many unresolved plots anyway" but that has nothing to do with the personalities and choices of the characters.
I only read the first 3 books, but those books go in depth to establish character traits and their histories. The show writers have no excuse when the important material has literally already been written for them
I do enjoy some character changes (for example, TV Cersei is a lot more complex than her book version) but things like Stannis burning Shireen, Jon bending the knee to Dany and becoming whipped, Tyrion turning into a useless dude who makes 6th grade penis jokes every episode...why?
I only read the first 3 books, but those books go in depth to establish character traits and their histories. The show writers have no excuse when the important material has literally already been written for them
I do enjoy some character changes (for example, TV Cersei is a lot more complex than her book version) but things like Stannis burning Shireen, Jon bending the knee to Dany and becoming whipped, Tyrion turning into a useless dude who makes 6th grade penis jokes every episode...why?
Last edited:
