Talk to me simple. What is up w/ the Palestinian & Israeli situation?

[sneakaprince]

I'll start with good thread and I'm glad to see NT tackle this issue in a mature manner. Props to you all NY family.

I recently listened to the Marc Lamont Hill's most recent book titled Except Palestine and I am so much more well versed on this topic than I would've been say 3 months ago.

With that said I stand with the BDS (Boycott, Divest, Sanction) movement. I can't knowingly fund the oppression of the Palestinians.

Here's more info on BDS

Holy **** man, this is really colonization. Dudes sounds like he's from the states as well:

He is likely from the states g. Israel will fund for Jewish people to relocate to Israel. When this happens it often results in Palestinians losing their homes/ land.

Imagine inviting your long lost cousins to a family function then forcefully taking your neighbors land and saying this theirs now by birthright.

I haven't seen many people touch on it but the reason Gaza is packed out is because Palestinians families were forced to move there on some refugee camp stuff. They been in Gaza now for like 3-4 generations. A refugee camp for generation smh.

I forgot to add this is what empowers groups like Hamas, when you keep pushing people into a corner (especially people who typically have only been able to arm themselves with sticks and rocks) then of course they gonna side with the other extreme side that is at least ready to shoot back.

Thank you! I appreciate your response. There is no denying that what is happening in the Middle East is terrible. I am a Canadian born jew and I have a significant amount of family living in various parts of Israel. I attended a private hebrew school as a child and while the concept of "chosen people" was taught, it wasn't taught in a manner that makes Jews better than anyone else. I grant you, there are too many Jewish people in Israel and the rest of the world who do in fact think they are better than others. I make no excuse or explanation for that. It is flat out wrong and disgusting.

I am an elementary school teacher. In additon, I used to teach nightschool at a Yeshiva. In case anyone doesn't know, a Yeshiva is an Ultra Orthodox high school for only jewish boys. In my time there I was repeatedly disgusted by what I heard these young people say. One of them told me that no matter what my wife will never be a real jew. (my wife was born to a Turkish/Muslim father and a Filipino/Catholic mother) She went through a year long conversion process to convert to judiasm. That was a decision she had made, I was going to marry her regardless.

Sorry for my rambling. I say all that to say this. Israel is guilty of a lot of wrongdoings. I can understand why people think so negatively towards the country. I just think sometimes in all the hatred it is forgotten that there are many Israeli's and jews around the world who don't endorse the actions of the Israeli government. I think Netanyahu is a corrupt piece of ****! A sentiment shared by essentially my entire family both in Israel and in Canada.

There is an Israeli activist (Rudy Rochman) who has a youtube channel and Instagram. For anyone interested, I'd suggest checking him out. His activism is about bringing Israeli and Palestinian people together to open the lines of communication and to figure out how to move forward.

I remember your story, there must've been another Palestine vs Israel thread on here before because I swear I remember hearing about your wife specifically.

Thank you for being open minded enough to even discuss this topic and be truthful about your people. It's not easy to air out the dirty laundry of your tribe in a public manner.

man religion wild..

Wild as **** g.

It's wild because the Jewish people have had a really rough go of things throughout history (long before the Holocaust) it's kind of been a pattern that when Blacks aren't around to blame, people tend to blame the Jews for whatever they can, **** is wild.

You would think that knowing their history they wouldn't want to create a nation-state only to oppress others around them (with the help of big brother America of course) but tribalism/ religion can make the brain do dumb ****.

 

[Grine]

Italian Dockers Refuse to Load Arms Shipment to Israel in Solidarity with Palestine [Updated] - Left Voice

After discovering that a shipment of arms destined for Israel was arriving in Italy’s ports, workers refused to load the ship in support of the Palestinians fighting for their lives against Israeli occupation.

www.leftvoice.org

 

[QU!K]

If you were unfamiliar with the situation as I was this is a decent summary.

 

[KHUFU]

Problem is that thier “god” sent them to occupied land. 7 tribes i believe.

this conflict is not that nuance to me.

the israeli govt and the powers that fund them have been mistreating and changing the legal parameters against the Palestinian people.

They should have never made their land in Palestine . They simply should of forced their own section in Germany or Poland, of where they were indigenous to. But just like white people have done everywhere else once they arrive? The indigenous people of that land suffer.

 

[sneakaprince]

They should have never made their land in Palestine . They simply should of forced their own section in Germany or Poland, of where they were indigenous to. But just like white people have done everywhere else once they arrive? The indigenous people of that land suffer.

That's another one of the challenging parts regarding the establishment of Israel.

I understand that there was previously no home country for people of that belief but it's clear that there are Jewish people of all nationalities.

Picking a place that had nothing to do with the most recent major atrocity effecting Jewish people seems so weird.

I know that it would've been painful for many Jews to return to Germany or Poland after the war but picking Palestine and not even compensating the people already established there is very unfair.

 

[KHUFU]

That's another one of the challenging parts regarding the establishment of Israel.

I understand that there was previously no home country for people of that belief but it's clear that there are Jewish people of all nationalities.

Picking a place that had nothing to do with the most recent major atrocity effecting Jewish people seems so weird.

I know that it would've been painful for many Jews to return to Germany or Poland after the war but picking Palestine and not even compensating the people already established there is very unfair.

The colonizer mentality under the guise of religious freedom sounds very familiar, doesn’t it?

 

[the coolness]

My understanding is that they didn't just randomly choose Palestine, they wanted it for it's historical/religious significance.

"This Holy Land here? This is ours now. UN said so." Then that one war followed.

 

[townbidness]

Most of them fled to that area during ww2.

 

[sneakaprince]

Most of them fled to that area during ww2.

So what you're saying is they were welcomed as refugees and then took the land over like a super ****** house guest/ squatter.

That logic is terrible. I understand needing to escape persecution surely but kicking out those who have welcomed you with open arms seems like a slap in the face.

Like there are still Holocaust survivors today, there are still older Palestinians who have been forced to relocate because of Israel and now they have to watch someone else live in what used to be their **** with no compensation.

 

[gry60]

How it all started:

White Paper of 1939 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The White Paper of 1939[note 1] was a policy paper issued by the British government, led by Neville Chamberlain, in response to the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine.[2] After its formal approval in the House of Commons on 23 May 1939,[3][note 2] it acted as the governing policy for Mandatory Palestine from 1939 to the 1948 British departure. After the war, the Mandate was referred to the United Nations.[4]

The policy, first drafted in March 1939, was prepared by the British government unilaterally as a result of the failure of the Arab-Zionist London Conference.[5] The paper called for the establishment of a Jewish national home in an independent Palestinian state within 10 years, rejecting the Peel Commission's idea of partitioning Palestine. It also limited Jewish immigration to 75,000 for five years and ruled that further immigration would then be determined by the Arab majority (section II). Jews were restricted from buying Arab land in all but 5% of the Mandate (section III).

The proposal did not meet the political demands proposed by Arab representatives during the London Conference and was officially rejected by the representatives of Palestine Arab parties, who were acting under the influence of Haj Amin Effendi al-Husseini, but the more moderate Arab opinion that was represented by the National Defence Party was prepared to accept the White Paper.[6]

Zionist groups in Palestine immediately rejected the White Paper and led a campaign of attacks on government property that lasted for several months. On 18 May, a Jewish general strike was called.[7]

Regulations on land transfers and clauses restricting immigration were implemented, but at the end of the five years in 1944, only 51,000 of the 75,000 immigration certificates provided for had been used. In light of this, the British offered to allow immigration to continue beyond the cutoff date of 1944, at a rate of 1,500 per month, until the remaining quota was filled.[8][9] From December 1945 to the 1948 end of the Mandate, 1,500 additional certificates for Jewish immigrants were allocated each month. Key provisions were ultimately never to be implemented, initially because of cabinet opposition after the change in government and later because of preoccupation with World War II.[1

Background[edit]

During World War I, the British had made two promises regarding territory in the Middle East. Britain had promised the Hashemite governors of Arabia, through Lawrence of Arabia and the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence, independence for a united Arab country in Syria in exchange for supporting the British against the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Caliphate had declared a military jihad for the Germans, and the British hoped that an alliance with the Arabs would quell the chances of a general Muslim uprising in British-held territories in Africa, India and the Far East.[11] Britain had also negotiated the Sykes–Picot Agreement to partition the Middle East between Britain and France.

A variety of strategic factors, such as securing Jewish support in Eastern Europe while the Russian front collapsed, culminated in the 1917 Balfour Declaration in which Britain promised to create and foster a Jewish national home in Palestine. The broad delineations of territory and goals for both the creation of a Jewish homeland in Palestine and Arab self-determination were approved in the San Remo Conference.

In June 1922, the League of Nations approved the Palestine Mandate, effective September 1923, an explicit document on Britain's responsibilities and powers of administration in Palestine, including 'secur[ing] the establishment of the Jewish national home', and 'safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine'. In September 1922, the British government presented the Trans-Jordan memorandum to the League of Nations that stated that the Emirate of Transjordan would be excluded from all the provisions dealing with Jewish settlement, in accordance with Article 25 of the Mandate. The memorandum was approved on 23 September. Stiff Arab opposition and pressure against Jewish immigration made Britain redefine Jewish immigration by restricting its flow according to the country's economic capacity to absorb the immigrants. In effect, annual quotas were put in place as to how many Jews could immigrate, but Jews possessing a large sum of money (£500) were allowed to enter the country freely.

Following Adolf Hitler's rise to power, European Jews were increasingly prepared to spend the money necessary to enter Palestine. The 1935 Nuremberg Laws stripped the 500,000 German Jews of their citizenship. Jewish migration was impeded by Nazi restrictions on the transfer of finances abroad (departing Jews had to abandon their property), but the Jewish Agency was able to negotiate an agreement that allowed Jews resident in Germany to buy German goods for export to Palestine, thus circumventing the restrictions.

The large numbers of Jews entering Palestine was a cause of the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. Britain responded to the revolt by appointing a royal commission, the Peel Commission, which went to Palestine and undertook a thorough study of the issues. The Peel Commission recommended in 1937 for Palestine to be partitioned into two states: one Arab the other Jewish. The proposal was rejected by the Arabs while the Zionist response was "neither positive nor negative" and the Peel Commission failed to stem the violence.[12] In January 1938, the Woodhead Commission explored the practicalities of partition and considered three different plans, one of which was based on the Peel Plan. Reporting in 1938, the Woodhead Commission rejected the plan, primarily on the grounds that it could not be implemented without a massive forced transfer of Arabs, an option that the British government had already ruled out.[13] With dissent from some of its members, the Commission instead recommended a plan that would leave the Galilee under British mandate, but it emphasised serious problems with it such as a lack of financial self-sufficiency of the proposed Arab state.[13] The British government accompanied the publication of the Woodhead Report by a statement of policy rejecting partition as impracticable for "political, administrative and financial difficulties".[14] It proposed a substantially-smaller Jewish state, including the coastal plain only. The Évian Conference, convened by the United States in July 1938, failed to find any agreement to deal with the rapidly growing number of Jewish refugees, increasing pressure on the British to find a solution to the problem of Jewish immigration to Palestine.

London Conference[edit]
In February 1939, the British called the London Conference to negotiate an agreement between Arabs and Jews in Palestine. The Arab delegates attended on the condition that they would not meet directly with the Jewish representatives, which would constitute recognition of Jewish claims over Palestine. The British government, therefore, held separate meetings with the two sides. The conference ended in failure on March 17.[15]

In the wake of World War II, the British believed that Jewish support was either guaranteed or unimportant. However, the government feared hostility from the Arab world. That geopolitical consideration was, in Raul Hilberg's word, "decisive"[16] to British policies since Egypt, Iraq and Saudi Arabia were independent and allied with Britain.

Tidbits about some of the principal actors and organizations of the Jewish independence movement. Hit the links for more info:

Menachem Begin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Menachem Begin (Hebrew: מְנַחֵם בֵּגִין‎ Menaḥem Begin ( listen (help·info)); Polish: Mieczysław Biegun (Polish birth name), Polish: Menachem Begin (Polish documents, 1931–1937);[1] Russian: Менахем Вольфович Бегин Menakhem Volfovich Begin; 16 August 1913 – 9 March 1992) was an Israeli politician, founder of Likud and the sixth Prime Minister of Israel. Before the creation of the state of Israel, he was the leader of the Zionist militant group Irgun, the Revisionist breakaway from the larger Jewish paramilitary organization Haganah. He proclaimed a revolt, on 1 February 1944, against the British mandatory government, which was opposed by the Jewish Agency. As head of the Irgun, he targeted the British in Palestine.[2] Later, the Irgun fought the Arabs during the 1947–48 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and its chief Begin was also noted as "leader of the notorious terrorist organisation" by British government and banned from entering the United Kingdom.[3]

Begin was elected to the first Knesset, as head of Herut, the party he founded, and was at first on the political fringe, embodying the opposition to the Mapai-led government and Israeli establishment. He remained in opposition in the eight consecutive elections (except for a national unity government around the Six-Day War), but became more acceptable to the political center. His 1977 electoral victory and premiership ended three decades of Labor Party political dominance.

Begin's most significant achievement as Prime Minister was the signing of a peace treaty with Egypt in 1979, for which he and Anwar Sadat shared the Nobel Prize for Peace. In the wake of the Camp David Accords, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) withdrew from the Sinai Peninsula, which was captured from Egypt in the Six-Day War. Later, Begin's government promoted the construction of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Begin authorized the bombing of the Osirak nuclear plant in Iraq and the invasion of Lebanon in 1982 to fight PLO strongholds there, igniting the 1982 Lebanon War. As Israeli military involvement in Lebanon deepened, and the Sabra and Shatila massacre, carried out by Christian Phalangist militia allies of the Israelis, shocked world public opinion,[4] Begin grew increasingly isolated.[5] As IDF forces remained mired in Lebanon and the economy suffered from hyperinflation, the public pressure on Begin mounted. Depressed by the death of his wife Aliza in November 1982, he gradually withdrew from public life, until his resignation in October 1983.

[...]

Jewish underground
Begin quickly made a name for himself as a fierce critic of the dominant Zionist leadership for being too cooperative with the British, and argued that the only way to save the Jews of Europe, who were facing extermination, was to compel the British to leave so that a Jewish state could be established. In 1942 he joined the Irgun (Etzel), an underground Zionist paramilitary organization which had split from the main Jewish military organization, the Haganah, in 1931. Begin assumed the Irgun's leadership in 1944, determined to force the British government to remove its troops entirely from Palestine. The official Jewish leadership institutions in Palestine, the Jewish Agency and Jewish National Council ("Vaad Leumi"), backed up by their military arm, the Haganah, had refrained from directly challenging British authority. They were convinced that the British would establish a Jewish state after the war due to support for the Zionist cause among both the Conservative and Labour parties. Giving as reasons that the British had reneged on the promises given in the Balfour Declaration and that the White Paper of 1939 restricting Jewish immigration was an escalation of their pro-Arab policy, he decided to break with the official institutions and launch an armed rebellion against British rule, in cooperation with Lehi, another breakaway Zionist group.

Irgun - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Irgun (Hebrew: ארגון‎; full title: Hebrew: הארגון הצבאי הלאומי בארץ ישראל‎ Hā-ʾIrgun Ha-Tzvaʾī Ha-Leūmī b-Ērētz Yiśrāʾel, lit. "The National Military Organization in the Land of Israel") was a Zionist paramilitary organization that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. The organization is also referred to as Etzel (Hebrew: אצ"ל‎), an acronym of the Hebrew initials, or by the abbreviation IZL. It was an offshoot of the older and larger Jewish paramilitary organization Haganah (Hebrew: Hebrew: הגנה‎, Defence). When the group broke from the Haganah it became known as the Haganah Bet (Hebrew: literally "Defense 'B' " or "Second Defense", Hebrew: הגנה ב‎), or alternatively as haHaganah haLeumit (Hebrew: ההגנה הלאומית‎) or Hama'amad (Hebrew: המעמד‎).[1] Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war.

The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky. According to Howard Sachar, "The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".[2]

Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.

The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts.[3][4][5][6] Specifically the organization "committed acts of terrorism and assassination against the British, whom it regarded as illegal occupiers, and it was also violently anti-Arab" according to the Encyclopædia Britannica.[7] In particular the Irgun was described as a terrorist organization by the United Nations, British, and United States governments; in media such as The New York Times newspaper;[8][9] as well as by the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry,[1[11] the 1946 Zionist Congress[12] and the Jewish Agency.[13] However, academics such as Bruce Hoffman and Max Abrahms have written that the Irgun went to considerable lengths to avoid harming civilians, such as issuing pre-attack warnings; according to Hoffman, Irgun leadership urged "targeting the physical manifestations of British rule while avoiding the deliberate infliction of bloodshed."[14] Irgun's tactics appealed to many Jews who believed that any action taken in the cause of the creation of a Jewish state was justified, including terrorism.[15]

The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party.[16] Likud has led or been part of most Israeli governments since 1977.

Herut - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Objection to withdrawal of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and to negotiations with Arab states formed the party's main platform in the first Knesset election. The party vigorously opposed the ceasefire agreements with the Arab states until the annexation of Gaza Strip and the West Bank, both before and after the election. Herut differentiated itself by refusing to recognise the legitimacy of the Kingdom of Jordan after the armistice, and frequently used the slogan "To the banks of the Jordan River" in claiming Israel's right to the whole of Eretz Israel/Palestine. According to Joseph Heller, Herut was a one-issue party intent on expanding Israel's borders.[4]

Herut's socio-economic platform represented a clear shift to the right, with support for private initiative, but also for legislation preventing the trusts from exploiting workers. Begin was at first careful not to appear anti-socialist, stressing his opposition to monopolies and trusts, and also demanding that "all public utility works and basic industries must be nationalized".[4] Herut was from the outset inclined to sympathise with the underdog, and, according to Hannah Torok Yablonka, "tended to serve as a lodestone for society's misfits".[5] Herut won 14 seats with 11.5 per cent of the votes, making it the fourth-largest party in the Knesset; Hatzohar, on the other hand, failed to cross the electoral threshold of 1 per cent, and disbanded shortly thereafter.[citation needed]

The party was renowned for its right-wing views, and considered[by whom?] to be outside the mainstream. The practical differences between Herut and Mapai, however, were less dramatic than the rhetoric suggested. Factors to consider[clarification needed] include the establishment's interest in ostracising its Herut rival, and Herut's need, as an opposition party, to emphasise those differences and reflect their core voter's instincts.[6]

Likud - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ideological positions
Likud emphasizes national security policy based on a strong military force when threatened with continued enmity against Israel. It has shown reluctance to negotiate with its neighbors whom it believes continue to seek the destruction of the Jewish state, that based on the principle of the party founder Menachem Begin concerning the preventive policy to any potential attacks on State of Israel. Its suspicion of neighboring Arab nations' intentions, however, has not prevented the party from reaching agreements with the Arabs, such as the 1979 peace treaty with Egypt. Likud's willingness to enter mutually accepted agreements with the Arabs over the years is related to the formation of other right-wing parties. Like other right-wing parties in Israel, Likud politicians have sometimes criticized particular Supreme Court decisions, but it remains committed to rule of law principles that it hopes to entrench in a written constitution.[16]

As of 2014, the party remains divided between moderates and hard-liners.[53]

Likud is considered to be the leading party in the national camp in Israeli politics.[54]

Platform

• The 1999 Likud Party platform emphasizes the right of settlement.

"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."[55]

Similarly, they claim the Jordan River as the permanent eastern border to Israel and it also claims Jerusalem as belonging to Israel.

• The 'Peace & Security' chapter of the 1999 Likud Party platform rejects a Palestinian state.

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration, and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel's existence, security and national needs."[55]

With Likud back in power, starting in 2009, Israeli foreign policy is still under review. Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu, in his "National Security" platform, neither endorsed nor ruled out the idea of a Palestinian state.[56] "Netanyahu has hinted that he does not oppose the creation of a Palestinian state, but aides say he must move cautiously because his religious-nationalist coalition partners refuse to give away land."[57]

On 14 June 2009, Netanyahu delivered a speech[58] at Bar-Ilan University (also known as "Bar-Ilan Speech"), at Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies, that was broadcast live in Israel and across parts of the Arab world, on the topic of the Middle East peace process. He endorsed for the first time the creation of a Palestinian state alongside Israel, with several conditions.

However, on 16 March 2015, Netanyahu stated in the affirmative, that if he were elected, a Palestinian state would not be created.[59] Netanyahu argued, "anyone who goes to create today a Palestinian state and turns over land, is turning over land that will be used as a launching ground for attacks by Islamist extremists against the State of Israel."[59] Some take these statements to mean that Netanyahu and Likud oppose a Palestinian state. After having been criticised by U.S. White House Spokesperson Josh Earnest for the "divisive rhetoric" of his election campaign, on 19 March 2015, Netanyahu retreated to "I don't want a one-state solution. I want a peaceful, sustainable two-state solution. I have not changed my policy."[6

The Likud Constitution[61] of May 2014 is more vague and ambiguous. Though it contains commitments to the strengthening of Jewish settlement in the West Bank, it does not explicitly rule out the establishment of a Palestinian state.[failed verification][failed verification]

Israeli Declaration of Independence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The declaration was signed in the context of civil war between the Arab and Jewish populations of the Mandate that had started the day after the partition vote at the UN six months earlier. Neighbouring Arab states and the Arab League were opposed to the vote and had declared they would intervene to prevent its implementation. In a cablegram on 15 May 1948 to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States claimed that "the Arab states find themselves compelled to intervene in order to restore law and order and to check further bloodshed".[2

Over the next few days after the declaration, armies of Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Iraq, and Syria engaged Israeli troops inside the area of what had just ceased to be Mandatory Palestine, thereby starting the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. A truce began on 11 June, but fighting resumed on 8 July and stopped again on 18 July, before restarting in mid-October and finally ending on 24 July 1949 with the signing of the armistice agreement with Syria. By then Israel had retained its independence and increased its land area by almost 50% compared to the 1947 UN Partition Plan.[21]

 

[deusavertat]

I'll start with good thread and I'm glad to see NT tackle this issue in a mature manner. Props to you all NY family.

I recently listened to the Marc Lamont Hill's most recent book titled Except Palestine and I am so much more well versed on this topic than I would've been say 3 months ago.

With that said I stand with the BDS (Boycott, Divest, Sanction) movement. I can't knowingly fund the oppression of the Palestinians.

Here's more info on BDS




He is likely from the states g. Israel will fund for Jewish people to relocate to Israel. When this happens it often results in Palestinians losing their homes/ land.

Imagine inviting your long lost cousins to a family function then forcefully taking your neighbors land and saying this theirs now by birthright.

I haven't seen many people touch on it but the reason Gaza is packed out is because Palestinians families were forced to move there on some refugee camp stuff. They been in Gaza now for like 3-4 generations. A refugee camp for generation smh.

I forgot to add this is what empowers groups like Hamas, when you keep pushing people into a corner (especially people who typically have only been able to arm themselves with sticks and rocks) then of course they gonna side with the other extreme side that is at least ready to shoot back.





I remember your story, there must've been another Palestine vs Israel thread on here before because I swear I remember hearing about your wife specifically.

Thank you for being open minded enough to even discuss this topic and be truthful about your people. It's not easy to air out the dirty laundry of your tribe in a public manner.






Wild as **** g.

It's wild because the Jewish people have had a really rough go of things throughout history (long before the Holocaust) it's kind of been a pattern that when Blacks aren't around to blame, people tend to blame the Jews for whatever they can, **** is wild.

You would think that knowing their history they wouldn't want to create a nation-state only to oppress others around them (with the help of big brother America of course) but tribalism/ religion can make the brain do dumb ****.

Yea considering what Jews have been through, you would think they would know better. But sometimes the oppressed become the oppressors.

 

[gry60]

Palestinian fedayeen - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Palestinian fedayeen (from the Arabic fidā'ī, plural fidā'iyūn, فدائيون) are militants or guerrillas of a nationalist orientation from among the Palestinian people.[1][2] Most Palestinians consider the fedayeen to be "freedom fighters",[3] while most Israelis consider them to be "terrorists".



Considered symbols of the Palestinian national movement, the Palestinian fedayeen drew inspiration from guerrilla movements in Vietnam, China, Algeria and Latin America.[2] The ideology of the Palestinian fedayeen was mainly left-wing nationalist, socialist or communist, and their proclaimed purpose was to defeat Zionism, claim Palestine and establish it as "a secular, democratic, nonsectarian state".[4] The meaning of secular, democratic and non-sectarian, however, greatly diverged among fedayeen factions.[4]



Emerging from among the Palestinian refugees who fled or were expelled from their villages as a result of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War,[5] in the mid-1950s the fedayeen began mounting cross-border operations into Israel from Syria, Egypt and Jordan. The earliest infiltrations were often to access the land's agricultural products they had lost as a result of the war, or to attack Israeli military,[citation needed] and sometimes civilian targets. The Gaza Strip, the sole territory of the All-Palestine Protectorate—a Palestinian state declared in October 1948—became the focal point of the Palestinian fedayeen activity.[6] Fedayeen attacks were directed on Gaza and Sinai borders with Israel, and as a result Israel undertook retaliatory actions, targeting the fedayeen that also often targeted the citizens of their host countries, which in turn provoked more attacks.



Fedayeen actions were cited by Israel as one of the reasons for its launching of the Sinai Campaign of 1956, the 1967 War, and the 1978 and 1982 invasions of Lebanon. Palestinian fedayeen groups were united under the umbrella the Palestine Liberation Organization after the defeat of the Arab armies in the 1967 Six-Day War, though each group retained its own leader and independent armed forces.[7]

Fatah - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fatah (Arabic: فتح‎ Fatḥ), formerly the Palestinian National Liberation Movement,[5] is a Palestinian nationalist social democratic political party and the largest faction of the confederated multi-party Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and the second-largest party in the Palestinian Legislative Council (PLC). The President of the Palestinian Authority is a member of Fatah.



Fatah is generally considered to have had a strong involvement in revolutionary struggle in the past and has maintained a number of militant groups.[6][7][8][9][1 Fatah had been closely identified with the leadership of its founder and Chairman Yasser Arafat, until his death in 2004, when Farouk Kaddoumi constitutionally succeeded him to the position of Fatah Chairman, and continued in the position until 2009, when Mahmoud Abbas was elected Chairman. Since Arafat's death, factionalism within the ideologically diverse movement has become more apparent.



In the 2006 election for the PLC, the party lost its majority in the PLC to Hamas. However, the Hamas legislative victory led to a conflict between Fatah and Hamas, with Fatah retaining control of the Palestinian National Authority in the West Bank through its president. Fatah is also active in the control of Palestinian refugee camps.[11][12]

Hamas - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hamas (Arabic: حماس‎ Ḥamās, an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah [Islamic Resistance Movement]) is a Palestinian Sunni-Islamic fundamentalist[c] but pragmatic,[d] militant,[16] and nationalist organization.[e] It has a social service wing, Dawah, and a military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades.[f][g] It won the 2006 Palestinian legislative election[2 and became the de facto governing authority of the Gaza Strip following the 2007 Battle of Gaza.[21][22] Israel and Hamas have since engaged in several wars of varying intensity.[23] Canada, the European Union, Israel, Japan and the United States classify Hamas as a terrorist organization. Australia, New Zealand, Paraguay and the United Kingdom classify only its military wing as a terrorist organization. It is not considered a terrorist organization by Brazil, China, Egypt, Iran, Norway, Qatar, Russia, Syria and Turkey. In December 2018, the United Nations General Assembly rejected a U.S. resolution condemning Hamas as a terrorist organization.[h]



Hamas was founded in 1987, soon after the First Intifada broke out, as an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood[26] which in its Gaza branch had previously been nonconfrontational toward Israel and hostile to the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO).[27] Co-founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin said in 1987, and the Hamas Charter affirmed in 1988, that Hamas was founded to liberate Palestine, including modern-day Israel, from Israeli occupation and to establish an Islamic state in the area that is now Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.[28] Since 1994,[29] the group has frequently stated that it would accept a truce[j] if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, paid reparations, allowed free elections in the territories[31] and gave Palestinian refugees the right to return.[k]

Also look up: Hezbollah, Ariel Sharon, Yasser Arafat, Yitzhak Rabin, Oslo Accords, Camp David, 1967 borders, Mammoud Abbas, etc...

 

[gry60]

Talking about the conflict as a simple Muslim-Jewish war is a terrible oversimplification of the subject considering the fact that there have been Palestinians and Israelis of all faiths and political convictions involved in this. Framing the conflict that way also ignores the impact that internal politics (in Palestine and Israel) have on the situation.







The way I see it, both sides are currently stuck in a death spiral in which Israel holds all the cards: they know how far they can push the buttons to initiate a response from Hamas (which has been elected by Palestinians in Gaza on the basis that they would respond to Israeli aggressions), and they use that response to initiate military strikes on Palestinian territories

As the tweet below shows,



we can't expect the Israeli government to be reasonable this time around. They have ALL the power to stop the hostilities, and they bear responsibility for anything that is happening.

 

[Nouss]

 

[jape]

.

 

[gry60]

Itamar Ben Gvir, the ultra-nationalist accused of stirring up violence in Jerusalem

Israel's police chief has accused MP Itamar Ben Gvir of adding fuel to the fire in Jerusalem and of being partly responsible for the violent demonstrations that have reignited the fuse of the Israeli-Palestinian…

www.france24.com

The person who is responsible for this Intifada is Itamar Ben Gvir:" Israel's police chief, Kobi Shabtai, did not mince his words during the morning briefing with Benjamin Netanhayu. According to Shabtai, the provocations of the ultra-right MP and his supporters have fanned the flames of Palestinian anger and provoked the violent clashes that shook Jerusalem last week.

Ben Gvir was quick to respond, saying that Shabtai should be fired and accusing the police of not using enough force to control the Arab protests.

Among the ultra-right MP's stunts was the opening of an office last week in the middle of Sheikh Jarrah, a neighbourhood in East Jerusalem that has become a symbol of Israeli colonisation. At the end of April, his allies from Lehava, a movement that advocates the banning of marriages between Jews and non-Jews, inflamed the situation by shouting "Death to the Arabs" near the Damascus Gate.
[...]
Ben Gvir entered Israeli public life at the age of 19. In 1995, amid a climate of hatred following the Oslo Accords with the Palestinians, he came to the public’s attention when he brandished the Cadillac emblem from then-prime minister Yitzhak Rabin's car in front of TV cameras.

"We got to his car. We’ll get to him, too," he said. Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist a few weeks later.

Charged more than fifty times by the justice system since his adolescence, notably for incitement to hatred, the Jewish supremacist ended up becoming a lawyer to "defend himself", he said.

"He has become the go-to lawyer for all fanatics and far-right activists," Denis Charbit, a professor of political science at Israel's Open University in Ra’anana, told FRANCE 24.

 

[friscostylez]

Israel needs to be stop

 

[Grine]

 

[friscostylez]

If you were unfamiliar with the situation as I was this is a decent summary.

I don't trust Vox

 

[Brownstone]

LOL, a lot of propaganda in here

 

[friscostylez]

LOL, a lot of propaganda in here

No shots but care to educate us? I want to learn.

 

[frshstunna]

“white” Ppl trying to take land , it’s always the same story that sparks **** up

 

[Brownstone]

No shots but care to educate us? I want to learn.

No sir, and I am far from an expert, but lets just say that it is more in the middle than those in here would have you believe. I would do your own research and come to your own conclusions. There have been some good links in here already via wikipedia but I think here below is a good place to start

1948 Palestine war - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Listen to Michael Brooks (youtube) AND Bret Stephens (NYT). Read stories form various news sources and see how they tell the exact same story in VERY different ways. The truth is there imo.

 

[blastercombo]

LOL, a lot of propaganda in here

Share

 

[Zo gif]

Really uneducated on this. Great thread