***THE 2011 NFL QUARTERBACK THREAD*** (QBRs through week 9 pg. 16)

^ the closest example i can think of is steve young.. but obviously there ALOT of differences..


who went to san fran in '87 and was montana's backup for 3 years before taking over.. but san fran did give up alot for him, a 2nd and 4th (didn't realize it was that much til i looked it up)




but brees was there for 1 year then left san diego as a free agent AND then rivers took over
 
Originally Posted by Jay02

Yall get what im saying though? Everyone is just throwing their QB in first year or just hoping they're ready when they need them. The Packers though had a plan and executed it perfectly. Its the main reason Favre was told not to come back...Because Rodgers was ready. The Packers created a Superstar.

and we tried to do this with kolb/mcnabb.. and we all know how that worked out


but i do wonder if philly's season continues to go south, whether they would consider 1 of the higher ranked QBs.. and basically have vick for 2-3 years.. and try to pull a packers, again
  
 
Originally Posted by cRazy dav0

tom brady (no explanation needed)
peyton manning (hope it's not the last of my dude)
aaron rodgers (going to be an all timer)
drew brees (spreads the ball well, beast)
michael vick (vick 2.0 is a monster)
philip rivers (needs to get to a superbowl, kid has all the tools)

eli manning (solid, his superbowl ring places him this high though, known for bad turnovers but not to the level of a romo)
ben roth (winner/clutch, but he holds the ball way too long trying to make a play and also has a propensity to turnover the ball)
matt schaub (has the tools, defense needs to help him get into the playoffs, any climbing in this list may be temporary though)
joe flacco (needs to improve in a few areas, but overall solid and continues to improve ... i'll admit not entirely sold on him being TOP 10 ... but I'LL take him over others who still have more to prove


my top 10 ...

overrated matt ryan

underrated ryan fitzpatrick

breakout 2011 star ... matthew stafford

/kanye shrug

i'm prolly the only one that had eli ranked that high, u can make a solid argument for switching eli with rivers ... but at the same time ... i couldn't think of a #10 and i put in flacco .... so
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... should have just kept my list at 9 ... rodgers is playing beast ... but still would keep him at 3 ... manning @ #2 since he is injured ... Rodgers is def. coming for the #1 spot ... once he gets there ... no 1 is knocking him out ... 
 
Alex Smith 3rd in the league in QB rating with 104.3 only behind Brady and Rodgers...
Not a great QB by any means but overnight has become an above-average QB
 
Yea San Frans ability to run is definitely helping out Alex this year... Hes averaging like 10 less attempts per game than Rodgers, Brady and Brees because of it. 9ers play action game has been on point.
 
Alex Smith is simply that dreaded term "game manager" and he's doing it very efficiently right now. There will be a time though, when his team will need him to make some plays, and he won't. San Francisco may very well find themselves in the playoffs, but they will never win much of anything with Alex Smith as their QB. Do not be fooled.

Still waiting on Josh Freeman. In my analysis of Josh before the season I said it was hard for me to formulate a strong opinion of the guy because it's really hard to tell what he really is. People use words like potential, raw skill, physical attributes, but he hasn't done much consistently to sway me over to the side of hte hype machine. I think he is modestly overrated at this point and still trying to find his signature moment. A lot of it goes into TB not having a true identity right now and I wonder if that's because they too, are waiting for Freeman to fully breakout.
 
Jay02 wrote:
Question...I'm pretty young at 20 so there are alot of Quarterbacks careers that I havent seen start to finish.

Has there ever been a quarterback that has been developed by an organization as well as Rodgers? Im talking get drafted, sit and learn, go through the process, get a year or two for experience, then voila top tier QB.

All the top tier QB's i see now were either prodigies to begin with or were stars out of no where.

Manning was a prodigy coming out of college and started his rookie year.
Brady was a miracle along with Favre
Brees? I feel like he just sat there forever in San Diego, played a year and showed he had talent, got shipped off and excelled w/ the saints. For the simple fact that he switched teams I dont think he can relate the process Rodgers went through.

Yall get what im saying though? Everyone is just throwing their QB in first year or just hoping they're ready when they need them. The Packers though had a plan and executed it perfectly. Its the main reason Favre was told not to come back...Because Rodgers was ready. The Packers created a Superstar.
I'm at work waiting from some data from a server. Off the top of my head, Joe Montana epitomizes a QB drafted & grown into a system. It also helped that Walsh started building the 49er team in an era without a salary cap so he was able to build a ton of talent around Montana on offense & also on defense too. Those 49er teams were fun to watch. 

I will say Rodgers throws the most catchable balls I've ever seen a QB throw...  
 
Originally Posted by Bruce Waynee

Alex Smith 3rd in the league in QB rating with 104.3 only behind Brady and Rodgers...
Not a great QB by any means but overnight has become an above-average QB

%+%+ outta here with your homer self, dude still sucks and you know it.  At best he is average, I don't care about what any rating says.  The reason they are 4-1 is cause of Harbaugh has nothing to do with that bum.
 
Just some random stuff I was workin on in my head.  None of it means anything, just interesting to look at is all.  Started thinkin about it watchin Brady vs the Jets the other day. 

1st round picks on offense for Brady
TE Daniel Graham in 02  #21
TE Ben Watson in 04  #32
OG Logan Mankins in 05 #32
RB Laurence Maroney in 06 #21
OT Nate Solder in 11 #17

1st round picks on offense for Manning
WR Marvin Harrison and OT Tarik Glenn taken in 96-97 respectively
RB Edge James in 99 #4
WR Reggie Wayne in 01 #30
TE Dallas Clark in 03 #24
RB Joseph Addaii in 06 #30
WR Anthony Gonzalez in 07 #32
RB Donald Brown in 09 #27
OT Anthony Castonzo in 11 #22

1st round picks on offense for Rodgers
OT Bryan Bulaga in 10 #23
OT Derek Sherrod in 11 #32


Simply amazing to look at to me.  Rodgers is built up with mid round guys that have developed under them, Brady has mid rounders, and even undrafted players, Manning has played with supreme first rounders until the past couple years when the Colts have started to miss on their picks a little bit. 

I'm interested since I am wondering what we're going to put around Luck or Jones in the coming years. 
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  Are we gonna build a D and let the QB make others better, or surround the QB with talent and our Defense give up 30 a game and make him win every game for us like Manning? 
 
Peyton was winning with a 4th round receiver, 4th round TE, and 6th round receiver last year. They haven't had a "supreme" first round player drafted since 2003 - I don't count no-shake Glass Joe as "supreme." What free agents have the Colts signed over the last couple of years? Anybody?

Tom Brady put up elite numbers with some guy named Randy Moss... who was a first rounder, who they got for a fourth rounded. Traded 2 and 7 for Wes Welker. Picked up Danny Woodhead off waivers. Pats move guys they don't need for draft picks and develop guys in their system.

You have to build a team through free agency AND the draft. I'm surprised certain teams (the Colts) were able to keep winning with so many whiffs and no big FA signings over the last couple of years. The Packers have everything going for them - great front office, scouts, and coaching. That team will be a force for years, in my opinion.

The Eagles, to me, have shown why Dan Snyder-esque teams continues to not win ##@% in the NFL - you need to bring guys up in your system, as well. This ain't Madden. If dudes don't know the system, know their teammates and their tendencies, they will struggle. It's why some dudes play at an extremely high level on one team, but suck it up on another.

I really don't know what the hell I'm rambling about (got the flu) but +$+! it.
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  You need a balance in the NFL, and I don't think focusing on one side of the ball works too well.
 
Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Packers fan here... Whats this "Free Agency" you speak of, Chester?

You guys are the exception to everything I just typed.
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Other than Charles Woodson in what, like 2005? 2006? I can't even name any free agents they've brought in. At the same time, though, the Packers have drafted so well that they don't need them. Most teams need balance because they screw up on one or the other.
 
Originally Posted by University of Nike

The Eagles, to me, have shown why Dan Snyder-esque teams continues to not win ##@% in the NFL - you need to bring guys up in your system, as well. This ain't Madden. If dudes don't know the system, know their teammates and their tendencies, they will struggle. It's why some dudes play at an extremely high level on one team, but suck it up on another.

i get your point.. eagles are a bad example of your point (at least the part about free agency).. we have drafted or already had in place the majority of our team (43 of 53 players)

our problem is with coaching and philosophy.. we changed the system for everyone defensively .. which is killing us because our team was built for a different system

the only players strengths that our coaches are playing towards presently on defense are babin and asante (wide 9 up front and zone in the secondary)


the only starters we added through free agency:
nnamdi (CB)
jenkins (DT)
mathis (OG)
babin (DE)

backups:
vince young
ronnie brown
steve smith
kyle devan
derek landri

and DRC was through a trade
 
Originally Posted by University of Nike

Originally Posted by fraij da 5 11

Packers fan here... Whats this "Free Agency" you speak of, Chester?

You guys are the exception to everything I just typed.
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Other than Charles Woodson in what, like 2005? 2006? I can't even name any free agents they've brought in. At the same time, though, the Packers have drafted so well that they don't need them. Most teams need balance because they screw up on one or the other.

Yea Chuck was the only one really... Ryan Pickett too... But Chuck wasn't even getting offers from anyone else.  He wanted no parts of playing in Green Bay but he had no other looks.
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Originally Posted by University of Nike

Peyton was winning with a 4th round receiver, 4th round TE, and 6th round receiver last year. They haven't had a "supreme" first round player drafted since 2003 - I don't count no-shake Glass Joe as "supreme." What free agents have the Colts signed over the last couple of years? Anybody?

Tom Brady put up elite numbers with some guy named Randy Moss... who was a first rounder, who they got for a fourth rounded. Traded 2 and 7 for Wes Welker. Picked up Danny Woodhead off waivers. Pats move guys they don't need for draft picks and develop guys in their system.

You have to build a team through free agency AND the draft. I'm surprised certain teams (the Colts) were able to keep winning with so many whiffs and no big FA signings over the last couple of years. The Packers have everything going for them - great front office, scouts, and coaching. That team will be a force for years, in my opinion.

The Eagles, to me, have shown why Dan Snyder-esque teams continues to not win ##@% in the NFL - you need to bring guys up in your system, as well. This ain't Madden. If dudes don't know the system, know their teammates and their tendencies, they will struggle. It's why some dudes play at an extremely high level on one team, but suck it up on another.

I really don't know what the hell I'm rambling about (got the flu) but +$+! it.
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  You need a balance in the NFL, and I don't think focusing on one side of the ball works too well.

Uhhh, huh?  Manning played half his career with Marvin, Wayne, Edge, and then Clark came late, come on, Tom and Aaron ain't no freaking where close to that kinda continuity.  Be real. 

Brady has played with Moss at the end, and Dillon at the end.  Separately mind you.  He plays today with undrafted Wes, undrafted Woodhead, undrafted Ben Jarvus, 2nd round Grok, 4th round Hernandez, 2nd rounder Ocho, and 2nd round Branch. 

And Rodgers, @#$% that guy don't even need first round players, he makes all their picks look like first rounders anyways. 
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  Off topic, but Ted Thompson needs some damn love as a GM, dude is brilliant. 

And Indy whiffs?  They do just fine in the draft, better than ok really.  Freeney, Mathis, Sanders, Bathea, their Oline, the offensive weapons I named, they have an excellent draft record overall.  Of course they are going to have misses, every single team does, NE and GB included.  But the hits the Colts have far outweight the misses, and it's not even close. 
  
 
Originally Posted by CP1708

Uhhh, huh?  Manning played half his career with Marvin, Wayne, Edge, and then Clark came late, come on, Tom and Aaron ain't no freaking where close to that kinda continuity.  Be real. 

Brady has played with Moss at the end, and Dillon at the end.  Separately mind you.  He plays today with undrafted Wes, undrafted Woodhead, undrafted Ben Jarvus, 2nd round Grok, 4th round Hernandez, 2nd rounder Ocho, and 2nd round Branch. 

And Rodgers, @#$% that guy don't even need first round players, he makes all their picks look like first rounders anyways. 
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  Off topic, but Ted Thompson needs some damn love as a GM, dude is brilliant. 

And Indy whiffs?  They do just fine in the draft, better than ok really.  Freeney, Mathis, Sanders, Bathea, their Oline, the offensive weapons I named, they have an excellent draft record overall.  Of course they are going to have misses, every single team does, NE and GB included.  But the hits the Colts have far outweight the misses, and it's not even close. 
  
I thought we were talking about first rounders? Indy has whiffed since 2003.

Sanders?
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Mathis was a 5th rounder, Bathea was a 6th rounder, etc. Yeah, they've done fine in the later rounds just like all the other teams you've listed.

You keep bringing up Edge and Harrison over and over - yeah, Peyton won a lot with those guys... but Edge left and he got a ring. Harrison leaves and the Colts get to another Super Bowl and are a moron GM/Coach decision from going 16-0.

I'm just saying - you act like these first round picks are the only reason why the Colts kept winning, but they're not. They made it into the playoffs last year with 14 people on IR for %%$$% sake.
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Originally Posted by University of Nike

I'm just saying - you act like these first round picks are the only reason why the Colts kept winning, but they're not. They made it into the playoffs last year with 14 people on IR for %%$$% sake.
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not contesting this point, but their division isn't exactly tough sledding...
 
Originally Posted by University of Nike

  I thought we were talking about first rounders? Indy has whiffed since 2003.

Sanders?
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Mathis was a 5th rounder, Bathea was a 6th rounder, etc. Yeah, they've done fine in the later rounds just like all the other teams you've listed.

You keep bringing up Edge and Harrison over and over - yeah, Peyton won a lot with those guys... but Edge left and he got a ring. Harrison leaves and the Colts get to another Super Bowl and are a moron GM/Coach decision from going 16-0.

I'm just saying - you act like these first round picks are the only reason why the Colts kept winning, but they're not. They made it into the playoffs last year with 14 people on IR for %%$$% sake.
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I was speaking on first rounders, then I was replying to you saying need the draft and free agency and what not.  I don't really know if free agency is that neccesary other than of course fill ins and a player here or there.  Dallas was full on draft, and then late, sign a Deion to kick over the top sort of once they started to slip a little.  Something like that.  GB, draft + Woodson as you said. 

I brought up latter rounds after you used Woodhead and Wes on me. 
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  Late, late, late non rounds that those guys were.  

I agree Indy whiffed first round the last few years, which is what I said, they were doing great until lately, but they have done excellent in later rounds, mostly on D.  With a Garcon thrown in too, he seems better than thought at first, even with Painter now. 

  
 
Originally Posted by DeadsetAce

Originally Posted by University of Nike

I'm just saying - you act like these first round picks are the only reason why the Colts kept winning, but they're not. They made it into the playoffs last year with 14 people on IR for %%$$% sake.
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not contesting this point, but their division isn't exactly tough sledding...
*cough*
Spoiler [+]
2007-
Colts (13-3) - Patriots (16-0)
Jags (11-5) - Bills (7-9)
Titans (10-6) - Jets (4-12)
Texans (8-
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- Dolphins (1-15)
--------------------------------
42 combined wins, all teams .500 or better compared to 28 combined wins... yeeeeeeah....

2008-
Titans (13-3) - Dolphins (11-5)
Colts (12-4) - Patriots (11-5)
Texans (8-
glasses.gif
- Jets (9-7)
Jags (5-11) - Bills (7-9)
------------------------------
38 wins, 38 wins.

2009-
Colts (14-2) - Pats (10-6)
Texans (9-7) - Jets (9-7)
Titans (8-
glasses.gif
- Dolphins (7-9)
Jags (7-9) - Bills (6-10)
--------------------------
38 wins, 32 wins.

2010-
Colts (10-6) - Pats (14-2)
Jags (8-
glasses.gif
- Jets (11-5)
Texans (6-10) - Dolphins (7-9)
Titans (6-10) - Bills (4-12)
-------------------------------
30 wins, 36 wins!

148 wins in the the AFC South since 2007, 134 wins in the AFC East. Don't act like the AFC East is some powerhouse simply because Buffalo figured out how to play football this season, and the Jets started winning games two years ago...
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And CP, what I was saying about Woodhead and Welker is that Bill knows which guys to target in free agency. Instead of spending boatloads of cash on guys, he targets the players that he knows will fit the system. Which, in my opinion, is one the of things that makes him so great.
 
I just want to throw in a kudos, if you will, to Jay Cutler for his play last night. It was seriously fun to watch him work last night, even though he was probably frustrated as hell. I'm telling ya, bad O-line or not, you get this guy on the move and he's one of the most dangerous QB's around.

Only knock I got on him is his lack of leadership. I understand the frustrations associated with bad blockin and missed catches, but it looked like he completely seperated himself from his offensive teams, especially the offensive line. Something that would make Cutler great would be not to turn his back on a struggling line, but to demonstrate composure and help fix the problem instead of sharing is body language that suggests disgust and hopelessness. Even show some fire, but don't shut yourself off to them. Big reason why I love and hate Cutler at the same time.
 
I just want to throw in a kudos, if you will, to Jay Cutler for his play last night. It was seriously fun to watch him work last night, even though he was probably frustrated as hell. I'm telling ya, bad O-line or not, you get this guy on the move and he's one of the most dangerous QB's around.

Only knock I got on him is his lack of leadership. I understand the frustrations associated with bad blocking and missed catches, but it looked like he completely seperated himself from his offensive teammates, especially the offensive line. Something that would make Cutler great would be not to turn his back on a struggling line, but to demonstrate composure and help fix the problem instead of sharing is body language that suggests disgust and hopelessness. Even show some fire, but don't shut yourself off to them. Big reason why I love and hate Cutler at the same time.
 
Originally Posted by airmaxpenny1

Originally Posted by Bruce Waynee

Alex Smith 3rd in the league in QB rating with 104.3 only behind Brady and Rodgers...
Not a great QB by any means but overnight has become an above-average QB

%+%+ outta here with your homer self, dude still sucks and you know it.  At best he is average, I don't care about what any rating says.  The reason they are 4-1 is cause of Harbaugh has nothing to do with that bum.
Have you watched any 49er games this season?
And he was forced to make plays in the 2nd half against Philly and was the reason we came back and won that game.
 
Originally Posted by University of Nike


And CP, what I was saying about Woodhead and Welker is that Bill knows which guys to target in free agency. Instead of spending boatloads of cash on guys, he targets the players that he knows will fit the system. Which, in my opinion, is one the of things that makes him so great.
Yeah I agree with that.
 
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