The word God is nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness.

[smoke ya later]

Originally Posted by tml09


Taking a look at our current state (as human beings), we are... incomplete, mentally and physically. We know next to nothing about ourselves, other species, our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, the universe.�Cancer, autoimmune diseases, birth� defects, and the like have no purpose in a world 'meant' for us. Hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, etc. have no place on a world 'made' for us.�As wonderful as all life might be, there is just some rediculous and 'stupid' stuff in nature. We�have been 'engineered' by nature for millions of years, it only makes sense that we are imperfect.

If you keep looking for things that are "right", you are blind to things that make absolutely no sense and vice versa. Ground yourself in reality, then start asking questions.

To me, religion is 'the easy way out'. What came before the Universe? God.�Why is this�thing this way? God. Praying is absolving any�shred of�responsibility�you might have over the situation and turning it over to someone�else.�The outcome is usually one of joy and reverence (positive outcome)�or self-delusion (negative outcome).�If you're going to put faith in something, put it in humanity. We are making astonishing progress in the field of medicine, our technology is advancing rapidly, and we are making amazing progress as a species. Wars, poverty, etc. can be avoided. We just need to get our heads out of our @!*$! and make things right. I'd rather us spend time trying to fix (with our own�hands) the mess that we're in, instead of wishing it away.

Personally, I believe trying to understand the God of Abraham (Old Testament, New Testament, and Quran) is an excersise in self delusion and mental gymnastics. If the Universe that God supposedly structured is ordered and bound by concrete laws, why isn't that reflected in these books? I tried to make sense of it, but it just doesn't fit. For some of us, "God" is not enough of an answer. It's just a placeholder�until we advance further�as a species.�Religion is an enormous mess of ideas, innumerable 'gods', and some form of societal control. It's holding us back. We're emotional, illogical, hormonal, driven by chemical reactions: both a gift and a curse. Psychology is great because it's basically a list of the shortcomings of human thinking and perception. Just try to think logically and the world will be a different place.

Imagine: there are billions of billions of stars (estimated to be 100 billion billion stars), which might have planets, like those in our solar system, are out there. Just look up at night.�We are 62 percent water and�our planet is 70 percent water. Water (H2O) is hydrogen and oxygen, two of the top three most abundant elements in the universe. All life on earth is based on carbon, the most chemically fertile element in the periodic table. ALL OF IT. We are not special, we are the same as everything else living on Earth. It is completely, inexcusably egocenteric to belive that we are special in any way at all, although religous texts make us and our planet seem special.

We are repurposed matter from cores of exploded stars, supernovae. Everything on our planet is (even our planet itself). We are the universe made self-aware. If beings�such as�ourselves exist, then�a�universe as vast as ours could be teeming with life. To say we are the only important species on Earth, or that we're the only one that matters, is ignorance. We are not special. Our planet is not special. Billions of galaxies with billons of stars each exist, and I would bet my first born child that there is life out there. The Universe is too vast, the chemistry is too rich, while our minds are too feeble to comprehend the possiblities.

Science is humble, always changing, always advancing. I'd rather side with something that'll find the right answers and prove them logically�than with�something that claims to have ALL the answers and has to be taken on faith.��I'm just saying, all the questions that you currently answer with "God" will have answers eventually. And we're perfectly fine with saying "We don't know yet, but we're trying to find out right now"


http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/images/hs-2004-07-a-full_jpg.jpg�(6200X6200 image: read: this will take a few minutes to load). The Hubble Deep Field: Practically every source of light in this picture is a galaxy with billions of stars each. This picture (ie the area of it) projected onto the night sky is 1/100 (one-one hundredth) the area of the full moon on the night sky.�Any one of those galaxies could have life in it somewhere.�I'm pretty sure the life there would have some god of their own as well..

The atoms in your body were once a�part of the night sky.


tml09

/procrastination

wowzers

  I like this guys thinking

I just want to know why do I get the title of "atheist" when I don't believe in any sort of god or religion?

 

[smoke ya later]

Originally Posted by tml09


Taking a look at our current state (as human beings), we are... incomplete, mentally and physically. We know next to nothing about ourselves, other species, our planet, our solar system, our galaxy, the universe.�Cancer, autoimmune diseases, birth� defects, and the like have no purpose in a world 'meant' for us. Hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, etc. have no place on a world 'made' for us.�As wonderful as all life might be, there is just some rediculous and 'stupid' stuff in nature. We�have been 'engineered' by nature for millions of years, it only makes sense that we are imperfect.

If you keep looking for things that are "right", you are blind to things that make absolutely no sense and vice versa. Ground yourself in reality, then start asking questions.

To me, religion is 'the easy way out'. What came before the Universe? God.�Why is this�thing this way? God. Praying is absolving any�shred of�responsibility�you might have over the situation and turning it over to someone�else.�The outcome is usually one of joy and reverence (positive outcome)�or self-delusion (negative outcome).�If you're going to put faith in something, put it in humanity. We are making astonishing progress in the field of medicine, our technology is advancing rapidly, and we are making amazing progress as a species. Wars, poverty, etc. can be avoided. We just need to get our heads out of our @!*$! and make things right. I'd rather us spend time trying to fix (with our own�hands) the mess that we're in, instead of wishing it away.

Personally, I believe trying to understand the God of Abraham (Old Testament, New Testament, and Quran) is an excersise in self delusion and mental gymnastics. If the Universe that God supposedly structured is ordered and bound by concrete laws, why isn't that reflected in these books? I tried to make sense of it, but it just doesn't fit. For some of us, "God" is not enough of an answer. It's just a placeholder�until we advance further�as a species.�Religion is an enormous mess of ideas, innumerable 'gods', and some form of societal control. It's holding us back. We're emotional, illogical, hormonal, driven by chemical reactions: both a gift and a curse. Psychology is great because it's basically a list of the shortcomings of human thinking and perception. Just try to think logically and the world will be a different place.

Imagine: there are billions of billions of stars (estimated to be 100 billion billion stars), which might have planets, like those in our solar system, are out there. Just look up at night.�We are 62 percent water and�our planet is 70 percent water. Water (H2O) is hydrogen and oxygen, two of the top three most abundant elements in the universe. All life on earth is based on carbon, the most chemically fertile element in the periodic table. ALL OF IT. We are not special, we are the same as everything else living on Earth. It is completely, inexcusably egocenteric to belive that we are special in any way at all, although religous texts make us and our planet seem special.

We are repurposed matter from cores of exploded stars, supernovae. Everything on our planet is (even our planet itself). We are the universe made self-aware. If beings�such as�ourselves exist, then�a�universe as vast as ours could be teeming with life. To say we are the only important species on Earth, or that we're the only one that matters, is ignorance. We are not special. Our planet is not special. Billions of galaxies with billons of stars each exist, and I would bet my first born child that there is life out there. The Universe is too vast, the chemistry is too rich, while our minds are too feeble to comprehend the possiblities.

Science is humble, always changing, always advancing. I'd rather side with something that'll find the right answers and prove them logically�than with�something that claims to have ALL the answers and has to be taken on faith.��I'm just saying, all the questions that you currently answer with "God" will have answers eventually. And we're perfectly fine with saying "We don't know yet, but we're trying to find out right now"


http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/images/hs-2004-07-a-full_jpg.jpg�(6200X6200 image: read: this will take a few minutes to load). The Hubble Deep Field: Practically every source of light in this picture is a galaxy with billions of stars each. This picture (ie the area of it) projected onto the night sky is 1/100 (one-one hundredth) the area of the full moon on the night sky.�Any one of those galaxies could have life in it somewhere.�I'm pretty sure the life there would have some god of their own as well..

The atoms in your body were once a�part of the night sky.


tml09

/procrastination

wowzers

  I like this guys thinking

I just want to know why do I get the title of "atheist" when I don't believe in any sort of god or religion?

 

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

Im surprised this thread has been going strong all week...In actuality no side will be able to convince the other of anything. What people don't understand is even scientists that come up with these scientifically proven "Facts" about creation, evolution and what-not are having a war among themselves over who is right. I read in an article once that scientists are assuming that creation by a higher power being based off myth and miracle, while they draw upon the same myth and miracle to convince people that we were once monkeys, then before that rodents, and before that some shapeless matter with the POTENTIAL to become something living.

And its not that far fetched that the earth was placed here for man to live on. Yes there were living beings on earth before man, but how many were given the brain and survival instincts that we have? And if you look at almost everything man created, it is mimicked from Nature. The cameras we use are mimicked from the eyeball, wetsuits work like skin, certain structures we revere were built and designed from looking at nature, planes were modeled after birds etc.

If the earth was moved 1 inch closer to the sun in orbit we would be torched. If it was moved 1 inch away we would be frozen. The axis of the earth allows for 4 seasons, days that allow us to recharge, and all varieties of climates..its hard to say all of this was mere chance in my eyes. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. A scientist didnt have to tell me that the wind blows, and I have never seen WIND in my entire life, jjust the SIGNS and RESULTS of wind, but that doesn't mean I can say it doesn't exist.

It is only those who believe who are trying to convince. Those of us who do not, do not need to convince anyone of anything. We do not have to disprove what has NOT been proven. Einstien made a valid point, we agree, as none has ever proven the existence of any higher deity.

So again, what proof do you have, if any, that all of this was made simply for humans? I dare any of you to cite the bible, or any of the creationist dogma that suggests that we are the only reason for the earth and universe to exist. 
  

Um... no, it's not... the existence of this thread indicates otherwise.

Neither "side" NEEDS to convince anyone of anything... people on both "sides" CHOOSE to attempt to do so.

This thread is about the comments made by Einstein, who says that the WORD God, is nothing but an expression. Those who came on claiming otherwise, need to prove that there is justification for their beliefs, as there has been no proof of any higher deity ever existing.

One does not have to disprove, what has never been proven.

It seems like you are literally incapable of any degree of perspective other than your own, which consistently comes off as extremely limited.  This is not an attack on you, personal or otherwise, and it may be an unfair characterization, but I just think that you do yourself a disservice when you fail to truly engage in discourse and only do so in a reactionary way.

Once again, no one NEEDS or HAS TO convince or prove anything to anyone.  However, this thread was created by a "non-believer" in an attempt to "disprove" the existence of a higher being by using a quote from Einstein, who people look at as a brilliant man.  No one forced him to create this thread.  So if anyone has some claims to defend in this thread, the onus would appear to be on the "non-believers."  However, in viewing these dynamics in that context, we fail to really engage in intelligent discourse where people exchange ideas and respond to one another in a way that seeks knowledge and understanding, not in a way which attempts to vilify and insult those who do not agree with us.

So once again, no one NEEDS or HAS TO convince of prove anything to anyone.  It is our own personal choice to enter these discussions, give our perspective on the topics, and learn about and question the perspectives of others.

quoted for truth.

 

[noblekane]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by 360wavesandxbox

Im surprised this thread has been going strong all week...In actuality no side will be able to convince the other of anything. What people don't understand is even scientists that come up with these scientifically proven "Facts" about creation, evolution and what-not are having a war among themselves over who is right. I read in an article once that scientists are assuming that creation by a higher power being based off myth and miracle, while they draw upon the same myth and miracle to convince people that we were once monkeys, then before that rodents, and before that some shapeless matter with the POTENTIAL to become something living.

And its not that far fetched that the earth was placed here for man to live on. Yes there were living beings on earth before man, but how many were given the brain and survival instincts that we have? And if you look at almost everything man created, it is mimicked from Nature. The cameras we use are mimicked from the eyeball, wetsuits work like skin, certain structures we revere were built and designed from looking at nature, planes were modeled after birds etc.

If the earth was moved 1 inch closer to the sun in orbit we would be torched. If it was moved 1 inch away we would be frozen. The axis of the earth allows for 4 seasons, days that allow us to recharge, and all varieties of climates..its hard to say all of this was mere chance in my eyes. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it isn't there. A scientist didnt have to tell me that the wind blows, and I have never seen WIND in my entire life, jjust the SIGNS and RESULTS of wind, but that doesn't mean I can say it doesn't exist.

It is only those who believe who are trying to convince. Those of us who do not, do not need to convince anyone of anything. We do not have to disprove what has NOT been proven. Einstien made a valid point, we agree, as none has ever proven the existence of any higher deity.

So again, what proof do you have, if any, that all of this was made simply for humans? I dare any of you to cite the bible, or any of the creationist dogma that suggests that we are the only reason for the earth and universe to exist. 
  

Um... no, it's not... the existence of this thread indicates otherwise.

Neither "side" NEEDS to convince anyone of anything... people on both "sides" CHOOSE to attempt to do so.

This thread is about the comments made by Einstein, who says that the WORD God, is nothing but an expression. Those who came on claiming otherwise, need to prove that there is justification for their beliefs, as there has been no proof of any higher deity ever existing.

One does not have to disprove, what has never been proven.

It seems like you are literally incapable of any degree of perspective other than your own, which consistently comes off as extremely limited.  This is not an attack on you, personal or otherwise, and it may be an unfair characterization, but I just think that you do yourself a disservice when you fail to truly engage in discourse and only do so in a reactionary way.

Once again, no one NEEDS or HAS TO convince or prove anything to anyone.  However, this thread was created by a "non-believer" in an attempt to "disprove" the existence of a higher being by using a quote from Einstein, who people look at as a brilliant man.  No one forced him to create this thread.  So if anyone has some claims to defend in this thread, the onus would appear to be on the "non-believers."  However, in viewing these dynamics in that context, we fail to really engage in intelligent discourse where people exchange ideas and respond to one another in a way that seeks knowledge and understanding, not in a way which attempts to vilify and insult those who do not agree with us.

So once again, no one NEEDS or HAS TO convince of prove anything to anyone.  It is our own personal choice to enter these discussions, give our perspective on the topics, and learn about and question the perspectives of others.

quoted for truth.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

There is no "burden of proof" on anyone to prove anything.  That was my whole point... which you entirely missed, apparently... again.

Now you are simply being foolish and distracting. 

I didn't miss your point, as you are talking about this thread. However, those of us who actually live outside of niketalk, know that the burden of proof is upon those of you who do believe in the "great unseen one". 

  

No, I was talking about life in general, not just this thread.  No one HAS TO prove or convince anyone of the existence of a higher being just as no one HAS TO believe in a higher being.  Similarly, no one needs to convince anyone that a higher being doesn't exist and no one needs to NOT believe in a higher being.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Perhaps you need to stick to speaking about Niketalk then. You have many who are demanding that a "god" exists, then attempting to change and force goverment policy due to that belief.

Prove that "God" exists, then perhaps I will believe that homosexuality is wrong, then women should not have equal rights, and that Black people are meant to serve "white people", here, then in the socalled "hereafter".

The burden of proof is on those of YOU who believe in what amounts to a sadist, then wanting us to think as YOU do.

  

Of course people's values and beliefs are going to play a role in what they think public policy should be.  It would be asinine to think or expect otherwise.  That goes for everyone, non-believers are no exception.  When such beliefs (based on religion or not) oppress and deny people their rights, then there is certainly a problem.

But your whole line of thinking about people having to convince you that God exists and then you will follow certain interpretations of the Bible used to oppress and marginalize is narrow-minded and hyperbolic.  Belief in a higher being does not automatically make someone embrace such beliefs just as not believing in a higher power does not automatically preclude someone from doing so.

As far as me, you have very, very little idea of what I believe in... perhaps you need to stick to speaking in generalities then.  And then you state that I (and other believers) want everyone to think as we do.  What the hell do you think you're doing in this thread?

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

There is no "burden of proof" on anyone to prove anything.  That was my whole point... which you entirely missed, apparently... again.

Now you are simply being foolish and distracting. 

I didn't miss your point, as you are talking about this thread. However, those of us who actually live outside of niketalk, know that the burden of proof is upon those of you who do believe in the "great unseen one". 

  

No, I was talking about life in general, not just this thread.  No one HAS TO prove or convince anyone of the existence of a higher being just as no one HAS TO believe in a higher being.  Similarly, no one needs to convince anyone that a higher being doesn't exist and no one needs to NOT believe in a higher being.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Perhaps you need to stick to speaking about Niketalk then. You have many who are demanding that a "god" exists, then attempting to change and force goverment policy due to that belief.

Prove that "God" exists, then perhaps I will believe that homosexuality is wrong, then women should not have equal rights, and that Black people are meant to serve "white people", here, then in the socalled "hereafter".

The burden of proof is on those of YOU who believe in what amounts to a sadist, then wanting us to think as YOU do.

  

Of course people's values and beliefs are going to play a role in what they think public policy should be.  It would be asinine to think or expect otherwise.  That goes for everyone, non-believers are no exception.  When such beliefs (based on religion or not) oppress and deny people their rights, then there is certainly a problem.

But your whole line of thinking about people having to convince you that God exists and then you will follow certain interpretations of the Bible used to oppress and marginalize is narrow-minded and hyperbolic.  Belief in a higher being does not automatically make someone embrace such beliefs just as not believing in a higher power does not automatically preclude someone from doing so.

As far as me, you have very, very little idea of what I believe in... perhaps you need to stick to speaking in generalities then.  And then you state that I (and other believers) want everyone to think as we do.  What the hell do you think you're doing in this thread?

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

There is no "burden of proof" on anyone to prove anything.  That was my whole point... which you entirely missed, apparently... again.

Now you are simply being foolish and distracting. 

I didn't miss your point, as you are talking about this thread. However, those of us who actually live outside of niketalk, know that the burden of proof is upon those of you who do believe in the "great unseen one". 

  

No, I was talking about life in general, not just this thread.  No one HAS TO prove or convince anyone of the existence of a higher being just as no one HAS TO believe in a higher being.  Similarly, no one needs to convince anyone that a higher being doesn't exist and no one needs to NOT believe in a higher being.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Perhaps you need to stick to speaking about Niketalk then. You have many who are demanding that a "god" exists, then attempting to change and force goverment policy due to that belief.

Prove that "God" exists, then perhaps I will believe that homosexuality is wrong, then women should not have equal rights, and that Black people are meant to serve "white people", here, then in the socalled "hereafter".

The burden of proof is on those of YOU who believe in what amounts to a sadist, then wanting us to think as YOU do.

  

Of course people's values and beliefs are going to play a role in what they think public policy should be.  It would be asinine to think or expect otherwise.  That goes for everyone, non-believers are no exception.  When such beliefs (based on religion or not) oppress and deny people their rights, then there is certainly a problem.

But your whole line of thinking about people having to convince you that God exists and then you will follow certain interpretations of the Bible used to oppress and marginalize is narrow-minded and hyperbolic.  Belief in a higher being does not automatically make someone embrace such beliefs just as not believing in a higher power does not automatically preclude someone from doing so.

As far as me, you have very, very little idea of what I believe in... perhaps you need to stick to speaking in generalities then.  And then you state that I (and other believers) want everyone to think as we do.  What the hell do you think you're doing in this thread?

   1. This is a christian nation. One that has used religion to justify many positions, right or wrong, including the current war against Iraq. Bush stated that "God" told him to invade Iraq. Who was the last atheist,agnostic/non believer to be heard on the political platform in this country, in regard to public policy, the defense of this country, and the law?

Can you name him/her?

2.  When I am walking through Times Square, there is this dude who screams that I am "going to hell", because I won't take his pamphlet on finding "Jesus".
I ignore the guy, only to reach 50th street to encounter some guy with a megaphone screaming the same thing at people, tourists, about the same "destination".
On the subway, a seemingly homeless dude is asking for money. I ignore him as well, why? Because everyone who gives him something, he states, "God bless you". I walk by, he states "god bless you", as if his "god" is gonna "get me" for not giving him something.
On the shuttle, there is another dude, but he is collecting money FOR the "homeless". He states, "You never know when you are gonna need someone, 'god' forbid that happens to any of you one day".

Total guilt shot! And I laugh my *** off, LOUDLY as soon as he says this.

The "God" thing is nothing but a tool used to instill fear of the unknown, in order to keep people dumb, deaf and blind, and in most cases, BROKE.

3. You are right, I do not know as to what you believe in, but who cares anyway? Either you are defending something, or you would not be responding. I am quite sure that you are not simply trying to convince me of anything, are you?

4. As soon as you read the title of this thread, you made the decision to respond. I, like others, decided to agree with brother Einstein.
 You, knowing that you'd disagree, came on claiming that those of us who agreed with 'stien, were simply wrong.

Now since this is the case, what proof do you have that WE ARE WRONG while sitting in agreement with brother Einstein?  

Your turn.  

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

There is no "burden of proof" on anyone to prove anything.  That was my whole point... which you entirely missed, apparently... again.

Now you are simply being foolish and distracting. 

I didn't miss your point, as you are talking about this thread. However, those of us who actually live outside of niketalk, know that the burden of proof is upon those of you who do believe in the "great unseen one". 

  

No, I was talking about life in general, not just this thread.  No one HAS TO prove or convince anyone of the existence of a higher being just as no one HAS TO believe in a higher being.  Similarly, no one needs to convince anyone that a higher being doesn't exist and no one needs to NOT believe in a higher being.

What is so difficult to grasp?

Perhaps you need to stick to speaking about Niketalk then. You have many who are demanding that a "god" exists, then attempting to change and force goverment policy due to that belief.

Prove that "God" exists, then perhaps I will believe that homosexuality is wrong, then women should not have equal rights, and that Black people are meant to serve "white people", here, then in the socalled "hereafter".

The burden of proof is on those of YOU who believe in what amounts to a sadist, then wanting us to think as YOU do.

  

Of course people's values and beliefs are going to play a role in what they think public policy should be.  It would be asinine to think or expect otherwise.  That goes for everyone, non-believers are no exception.  When such beliefs (based on religion or not) oppress and deny people their rights, then there is certainly a problem.

But your whole line of thinking about people having to convince you that God exists and then you will follow certain interpretations of the Bible used to oppress and marginalize is narrow-minded and hyperbolic.  Belief in a higher being does not automatically make someone embrace such beliefs just as not believing in a higher power does not automatically preclude someone from doing so.

As far as me, you have very, very little idea of what I believe in... perhaps you need to stick to speaking in generalities then.  And then you state that I (and other believers) want everyone to think as we do.  What the hell do you think you're doing in this thread?

   1. This is a christian nation. One that has used religion to justify many positions, right or wrong, including the current war against Iraq. Bush stated that "God" told him to invade Iraq. Who was the last atheist,agnostic/non believer to be heard on the political platform in this country, in regard to public policy, the defense of this country, and the law?

Can you name him/her?

2.  When I am walking through Times Square, there is this dude who screams that I am "going to hell", because I won't take his pamphlet on finding "Jesus".
I ignore the guy, only to reach 50th street to encounter some guy with a megaphone screaming the same thing at people, tourists, about the same "destination".
On the subway, a seemingly homeless dude is asking for money. I ignore him as well, why? Because everyone who gives him something, he states, "God bless you". I walk by, he states "god bless you", as if his "god" is gonna "get me" for not giving him something.
On the shuttle, there is another dude, but he is collecting money FOR the "homeless". He states, "You never know when you are gonna need someone, 'god' forbid that happens to any of you one day".

Total guilt shot! And I laugh my *** off, LOUDLY as soon as he says this.

The "God" thing is nothing but a tool used to instill fear of the unknown, in order to keep people dumb, deaf and blind, and in most cases, BROKE.

3. You are right, I do not know as to what you believe in, but who cares anyway? Either you are defending something, or you would not be responding. I am quite sure that you are not simply trying to convince me of anything, are you?

4. As soon as you read the title of this thread, you made the decision to respond. I, like others, decided to agree with brother Einstein.
 You, knowing that you'd disagree, came on claiming that those of us who agreed with 'stien, were simply wrong.

Now since this is the case, what proof do you have that WE ARE WRONG while sitting in agreement with brother Einstein?  

Your turn.  

 

[optimusprimeaphia]

man a lot of dudes in here are scare to view things from a different perspective.

 

[optimusprimeaphia]

man a lot of dudes in here are scare to view things from a different perspective.

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrimeAPhiA

man a lot of dudes in here are scare to view things from a different perspective.

Agreed. Can you imagine if someone here was told to have "faith" in a reseller, who does not have proof of what it is that he is selling?

I am selling a pair of OG Jordan XI's. I promise to send them to you if you send me 1000.00 today!


 
  

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by OptimusPrimeAPhiA

man a lot of dudes in here are scare to view things from a different perspective.

Agreed. Can you imagine if someone here was told to have "faith" in a reseller, who does not have proof of what it is that he is selling?

I am selling a pair of OG Jordan XI's. I promise to send them to you if you send me 1000.00 today!


 
  

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Perhaps you need to stick to speaking about Niketalk then. You have many who are demanding that a "god" exists, then attempting to change and force goverment policy due to that belief.

Prove that "God" exists, then perhaps I will believe that homosexuality is wrong, then women should not have equal rights, and that Black people are meant to serve "white people", here, then in the socalled "hereafter".

The burden of proof is on those of YOU who believe in what amounts to a sadist, then wanting us to think as YOU do.

  

Of course people's values and beliefs are going to play a role in what they think public policy should be.  It would be asinine to think or expect otherwise.  That goes for everyone, non-believers are no exception.  When such beliefs (based on religion or not) oppress and deny people their rights, then there is certainly a problem.

But your whole line of thinking about people having to convince you that God exists and then you will follow certain interpretations of the Bible used to oppress and marginalize is narrow-minded and hyperbolic.  Belief in a higher being does not automatically make someone embrace such beliefs just as not believing in a higher power does not automatically preclude someone from doing so.

As far as me, you have very, very little idea of what I believe in... perhaps you need to stick to speaking in generalities then.  And then you state that I (and other believers) want everyone to think as we do.  What the hell do you think you're doing in this thread?

   1. This is a christian nation. One that has used religion to justify many positions, right or wrong, including the current war against Iraq. Bush stated that "God" told him to invade Iraq. Who was the last atheist,agnostic/non believer to be heard on the political platform in this country, in regard to public policy, the defense of this country, and the law?

Can you name him/her?

2.  When I am walking through Times Square, there is this dude who screams that I am "going to hell", because I won't take his pamphlet on finding "Jesus".
I ignore the guy, only to reach 50th street to encounter some guy with a megaphone screaming the same thing at people, tourists, about the same "destination".
On the subway, a seemingly homeless dude is asking for money. I ignore him as well, why? Because everyone who gives him something, he states, "God bless you". I walk by, he states "god bless you", as if his "god" is gonna "get me" for not giving him something.
On the shuttle, there is another dude, but he is collecting money FOR the "homeless". He states, "You never know when you are gonna need someone, 'god' forbid that happens to any of you one day".

Total guilt shot! And I laugh my *** off, LOUDLY as soon as he says this.

The "God" thing is nothing but a tool used to instill fear of the unknown, in order to keep people dumb, deaf and blind, and in most cases, BROKE.

3. You are right, I do not know as to what you believe in, but who cares anyway? Either you are defending something, or you would not be responding. I am quite sure that you are not simply trying to convince me of anything, are you?

4. As soon as you read the title of this thread, you made the decision to respond. I, like others, decided to agree with brother Einstein.
 You, knowing that you'd disagree, came on claiming that those of us who agreed with 'stien, were simply wrong.

Now since this is the case, what proof do you have that WE ARE WRONG while sitting in agreement with brother Einstein?  

Your turn.  

I NEVER claimed that what Einstein said or that him or those who agree with what he said were wrong.  In fact, I agree with a lot of your analysis, disgust, and rage regarding how religion has been (and continues to be) used to justify oppression, marginalization, genocide, etc.

I'm not really trying to convince you or anyone else of anything other than trying to point out what I see as the hypocrisy that you, the OP, and others (Lobotomy Beats comes to mind) espouse on a regular basis when it comes to topics concerning "religion."

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

Perhaps you need to stick to speaking about Niketalk then. You have many who are demanding that a "god" exists, then attempting to change and force goverment policy due to that belief.

Prove that "God" exists, then perhaps I will believe that homosexuality is wrong, then women should not have equal rights, and that Black people are meant to serve "white people", here, then in the socalled "hereafter".

The burden of proof is on those of YOU who believe in what amounts to a sadist, then wanting us to think as YOU do.

  

Of course people's values and beliefs are going to play a role in what they think public policy should be.  It would be asinine to think or expect otherwise.  That goes for everyone, non-believers are no exception.  When such beliefs (based on religion or not) oppress and deny people their rights, then there is certainly a problem.

But your whole line of thinking about people having to convince you that God exists and then you will follow certain interpretations of the Bible used to oppress and marginalize is narrow-minded and hyperbolic.  Belief in a higher being does not automatically make someone embrace such beliefs just as not believing in a higher power does not automatically preclude someone from doing so.

As far as me, you have very, very little idea of what I believe in... perhaps you need to stick to speaking in generalities then.  And then you state that I (and other believers) want everyone to think as we do.  What the hell do you think you're doing in this thread?

   1. This is a christian nation. One that has used religion to justify many positions, right or wrong, including the current war against Iraq. Bush stated that "God" told him to invade Iraq. Who was the last atheist,agnostic/non believer to be heard on the political platform in this country, in regard to public policy, the defense of this country, and the law?

Can you name him/her?

2.  When I am walking through Times Square, there is this dude who screams that I am "going to hell", because I won't take his pamphlet on finding "Jesus".
I ignore the guy, only to reach 50th street to encounter some guy with a megaphone screaming the same thing at people, tourists, about the same "destination".
On the subway, a seemingly homeless dude is asking for money. I ignore him as well, why? Because everyone who gives him something, he states, "God bless you". I walk by, he states "god bless you", as if his "god" is gonna "get me" for not giving him something.
On the shuttle, there is another dude, but he is collecting money FOR the "homeless". He states, "You never know when you are gonna need someone, 'god' forbid that happens to any of you one day".

Total guilt shot! And I laugh my *** off, LOUDLY as soon as he says this.

The "God" thing is nothing but a tool used to instill fear of the unknown, in order to keep people dumb, deaf and blind, and in most cases, BROKE.

3. You are right, I do not know as to what you believe in, but who cares anyway? Either you are defending something, or you would not be responding. I am quite sure that you are not simply trying to convince me of anything, are you?

4. As soon as you read the title of this thread, you made the decision to respond. I, like others, decided to agree with brother Einstein.
 You, knowing that you'd disagree, came on claiming that those of us who agreed with 'stien, were simply wrong.

Now since this is the case, what proof do you have that WE ARE WRONG while sitting in agreement with brother Einstein?  

Your turn.  

I NEVER claimed that what Einstein said or that him or those who agree with what he said were wrong.  In fact, I agree with a lot of your analysis, disgust, and rage regarding how religion has been (and continues to be) used to justify oppression, marginalization, genocide, etc.

I'm not really trying to convince you or anyone else of anything other than trying to point out what I see as the hypocrisy that you, the OP, and others (Lobotomy Beats comes to mind) espouse on a regular basis when it comes to topics concerning "religion."

 

[nat turner]

red mpls wrote:
I NEVER claimed that what Einstein said or that him or those who agree with what he said were wrong.  In fact, I agree with a lot of your analysis, disgust, and rage regarding how religion has been (and continues to be) used to justify oppression, marginalization, genocide, etc.

I'm not really trying to convince you or anyone else of anything other than trying to point out what I see as the hypocrisy that you, the OP, and others (Lobotomy Beats comes to mind) espouse on a regular basis when it comes to topics concerning "religion."


[table][tr][td]

red mpls[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td] [/td][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]


Registered Member

Posts: 707

08/19/10 12:07 AM
[/td][td]
The irony of the constant barrage of threads like this is that those making them seem just as, if not more, obsessed with religion and God than the so-called religious fanatics... and are convinced that your point of view is the correct one just as much as the staunchest of believers... and attempt to force your beliefs on others just as much as those you mock and insult.


[/td][/tr][/table]___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My family down in the south will often use this saying in regard to hypocritical behaviour, "A hit dog will holla 'ery time."

This was your first response on this thread, as I am not aware of this poster and his history. However, regardless of his history, I have every right to agree with this topic, regardless of how many times it is posted. When pics are posted of women with wonderfully curvy bodies, I don't see your same complaint in regard to repetition.

A bit of "hypocrisy" perhaps?


  

 

[nat turner]

red mpls wrote:
I NEVER claimed that what Einstein said or that him or those who agree with what he said were wrong.  In fact, I agree with a lot of your analysis, disgust, and rage regarding how religion has been (and continues to be) used to justify oppression, marginalization, genocide, etc.

I'm not really trying to convince you or anyone else of anything other than trying to point out what I see as the hypocrisy that you, the OP, and others (Lobotomy Beats comes to mind) espouse on a regular basis when it comes to topics concerning "religion."


[table][tr][td]

red mpls[/td][td][/td][td][/td][td] [/td][td][/td][/tr][tr][td]


Registered Member

Posts: 707

08/19/10 12:07 AM
[/td][td]
The irony of the constant barrage of threads like this is that those making them seem just as, if not more, obsessed with religion and God than the so-called religious fanatics... and are convinced that your point of view is the correct one just as much as the staunchest of believers... and attempt to force your beliefs on others just as much as those you mock and insult.


[/td][/tr][/table]___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My family down in the south will often use this saying in regard to hypocritical behaviour, "A hit dog will holla 'ery time."

This was your first response on this thread, as I am not aware of this poster and his history. However, regardless of his history, I have every right to agree with this topic, regardless of how many times it is posted. When pics are posted of women with wonderfully curvy bodies, I don't see your same complaint in regard to repetition.

A bit of "hypocrisy" perhaps?


  

 

[chickhien]

all we need is LOVE. you can blame organized religion for diluting this message. when i look at myself in the mirror, i sometimes say "it's weird that i'm in this body and i see out into the world. how did my soul come about?". my soul, my inner thoughts, my dreams can't be measured or explained by any science or philosopher or religion definitively.

imagine if we truly loved one another. no wars, no egos...we'd always be on the same side. we would create our own heaven on earth. peace all day everyday. that to me is a wonderful concept. otherwise, we're no better than the animals and plants that inhabit this earth.

 

[chickhien]

all we need is LOVE. you can blame organized religion for diluting this message. when i look at myself in the mirror, i sometimes say "it's weird that i'm in this body and i see out into the world. how did my soul come about?". my soul, my inner thoughts, my dreams can't be measured or explained by any science or philosopher or religion definitively.

imagine if we truly loved one another. no wars, no egos...we'd always be on the same side. we would create our own heaven on earth. peace all day everyday. that to me is a wonderful concept. otherwise, we're no better than the animals and plants that inhabit this earth.

 

[antonlavey]

It's good to see Nat Turner arguing with someone else for a change. smh.

 

[antonlavey]

It's good to see Nat Turner arguing with someone else for a change. smh.

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by chickhien

all we need is LOVE. you can blame organized religion for diluting this message. when i look at myself in the mirror, i sometimes say "it's weird that i'm in this body and i see out into the world. how did my soul come about?". my soul, my inner thoughts, my dreams can't be measured or explained by any science or philosopher or religion definitively.

imagine if we truly loved one another. no wars, no egos...we'd always be on the same side. we would create our own heaven on earth. peace all day everyday. that to me is a wonderful concept. otherwise, we're no better than the animals and plants that inhabit this earth.

How many wars were created in the name of religion/god?

  

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by chickhien

all we need is LOVE. you can blame organized religion for diluting this message. when i look at myself in the mirror, i sometimes say "it's weird that i'm in this body and i see out into the world. how did my soul come about?". my soul, my inner thoughts, my dreams can't be measured or explained by any science or philosopher or religion definitively.

imagine if we truly loved one another. no wars, no egos...we'd always be on the same side. we would create our own heaven on earth. peace all day everyday. that to me is a wonderful concept. otherwise, we're no better than the animals and plants that inhabit this earth.

How many wars were created in the name of religion/god?

  

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey


It's good to see Nat Turner arguing with someone else for a change. smh.

It's good to see you contribute something to a thread, that does not involve what you think of you!

 

[nat turner]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey


It's good to see Nat Turner arguing with someone else for a change. smh.

It's good to see you contribute something to a thread, that does not involve what you think of you!

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by Nat Turner

red mpls wrote:

---

Nat Turner wrote:

---

Perhaps you need to stick to speaking about Niketalk then. You have many who are demanding that a "god" exists, then attempting to change and force goverment policy due to that belief.

Prove that "God" exists, then perhaps I will believe that homosexuality is wrong, then women should not have equal rights, and that Black people are meant to serve "white people", here, then in the socalled "hereafter".

The burden of proof is on those of YOU who believe in what amounts to a sadist, then wanting us to think as YOU do.

  

Of course people's values and beliefs are going to play a role in what they think public policy should be.  It would be asinine to think or expect otherwise.  That goes for everyone, non-believers are no exception.  When such beliefs (based on religion or not) oppress and deny people their rights, then there is certainly a problem.

But your whole line of thinking about people having to convince you that God exists and then you will follow certain interpretations of the Bible used to oppress and marginalize is narrow-minded and hyperbolic.  Belief in a higher being does not automatically make someone embrace such beliefs just as not believing in a higher power does not automatically preclude someone from doing so.

As far as me, you have very, very little idea of what I believe in... perhaps you need to stick to speaking in generalities then.  And then you state that I (and other believers) want everyone to think as we do.  What the hell do you think you're doing in this thread?

   1. This is a christian nation. One that has used religion to justify many positions, right or wrong, including the current war against Iraq. Bush stated that "God" told him to invade Iraq. Who was the last atheist,agnostic/non believer to be heard on the political platform in this country, in regard to public policy, the defense of this country, and the law?

Can you name him/her?

2.  When I am walking through Times Square, there is this dude who screams that I am "going to hell", because I won't take his pamphlet on finding "Jesus".
I ignore the guy, only to reach 50th street to encounter some guy with a megaphone screaming the same thing at people, tourists, about the same "destination".
On the subway, a seemingly homeless dude is asking for money. I ignore him as well, why? Because everyone who gives him something, he states, "God bless you". I walk by, he states "god bless you", as if his "god" is gonna "get me" for not giving him something.
On the shuttle, there is another dude, but he is collecting money FOR the "homeless". He states, "You never know when you are gonna need someone, 'god' forbid that happens to any of you one day".

Total guilt shot! And I laugh my *** off, LOUDLY as soon as he says this.

The "God" thing is nothing but a tool used to instill fear of the unknown, in order to keep people dumb, deaf and blind, and in most cases, BROKE.

3. You are right, I do not know as to what you believe in, but who cares anyway? Either you are defending something, or you would not be responding. I am quite sure that you are not simply trying to convince me of anything, are you?

4. As soon as you read the title of this thread, you made the decision to respond. I, like others, decided to agree with brother Einstein.
 You, knowing that you'd disagree, came on claiming that those of us who agreed with 'stien, were simply wrong.

Now since this is the case, what proof do you have that WE ARE WRONG while sitting in agreement with brother Einstein?  

Your turn.  

I NEVER claimed that what Einstein said or that him or those who agree with what he said were wrong.  In fact, I agree with a lot of your analysis, disgust, and rage regarding how religion has been (and continues to be) used to justify oppression, marginalization, genocide, etc.

I'm not really trying to convince you or anyone else of anything other than trying to point out what I see as the hypocrisy that you, the OP, and others (Lobotomy Beats comes to mind) espouse on a regular basis when it comes to topics concerning "religion."




You really can't compare the relatively few posts in opposition of God and/or religion on NikeTalk to the almost complete domination of the United States by Christianity.