THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

[harlemtothebronx]

I'd love to see how many times Kobe has been brought up in relation to Harden by Lakers fans vs Lakers haters in here

These are the analytics I want to see.

P.S. I miss guards and small forwards posting up on the baseline and going to work.

 

[trynafeelmink]

Ya'll are taking extreme takes and trying to frame it as if that is what the majority means when they talk about inflated stats

The implementation of three in the key, the rule changes on hand checking, the freedom to take threes has expanded & because of that the range has expanded which leads to even more spacing. The Way bigs are used and how often they now have to come out of the paint to defend. The trend of switching, the amount of threes that lead to long rebounds by smaller players etc etc

all of these are things that have effected offensive players much more than simply the pace. all of these things have a bit of an effect on Points, Assist, Rebounds FG% etc etc.... this is literally a fact, something that the league planned in order to have a more entertaining product.

So for someone to simply post stats from a player in this era compared to one from the prior eras and use stats as their main basis to argue Player A> Player B (when the stats are in the same ballpark) is a stretch...

 

[Peep Game]

There are other differences than just pace but Wavy is right as far as league average pace. The game became a rock fight during the '90s and early '00s but it was faster throughout the '70s and '80s than it is today (and '60s too but the data we have only goes back to '74).

Well well well, nostalgia is wrong again

 

[N41D]

He's toast.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

It's that time to take things out of context huh. Winning is over rated in the sense that it's used as the end all be all argument. Greatness can be evaluated outside of that.

It's only used as the be all end all by trolls who try to act like Robert horry is the goat. Within reason it could and should be used to determine which player is greater than the next

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Am I really conflating when you said this:



“Benefiting from no defense” is a shot, no matter how you tried to couch it. And it completely makes the league today seem like players aren’t playing any defense league wide. That’s not true.

It's not meant to be a shot. The referees have handcuffed players, so defense is very different. You know this, and you know what I mean when I say that.

Of course there are players who are great defenders today, but look at how the rules have changed and taken power away from the defender in so many different aspects. My point is not to discredit the players, but you have to acknowledge these things. The way the game is officiated has changed so much, too.

Honestly, I don't even think we really disagree on this point. It's pretty much undeniable that analytics have changed the way offenses function, and the way the game is called has changed the way players defend.

 

[antidope]

On the re-seeding of the conference finals, if this was five years ago I would have 100% been in favour of it, but this decade has altered my perspective a bit.

Now I'm a bigger fan of the narrative aspect of it than I was before. The East has go through Bron, the West has to go through GSW

 

[Bert.]

Nice

blow it all up

send Rose to LA for kuzma

ship out Drummond

hopefully Reggie Jackson too

start over with some young cheap kids and some picks

 

[QU!K]

LuKa IsN’t ToP 10

InGrAm Is ToP 20

LuKa OnLy GeTs PrAiSe CaUsE hE’s WhItE

LuKa StAtS aRe InFlAtEd FrOm ThE pAcE oF tHe MoDeRn GaMe

 

[addict4sneakers]

P.S. I miss guards and small forwards posting up on the baseline and going to work.

Chris Paul
Paul George
Kawhi
Dekobe
Giannis (he has small forward tendencies)
Stringer
Booker
Luka
Westbrook

Pimping ain’t dead it just moved to the web

 

[harlemtothebronx]

LuKa OnLy GeTs PrAiSe CaUsE hE’s WhItE

LuKa StAtS aRe InFlAtEd FrOm ThE pAcE oF tHe MoDeRn GaMe

Damn, I never considered this angle. Good points.

 

[wavycrocket]

It's not meant to be a shot. The referees have handcuffed players, so defense is very different. You know this, and you know what I mean when I say that.

Of course there are players who are great defenders today, but look at how the rules have changed and taken power away from the defender in so many different aspects. My point is not to discredit the players, but you have to acknowledge these things. The way the game is officiated has changed so much, too.

Honestly, I don't even think we really disagree on this point. It's pretty much undeniable that analytics have changed the way offenses function, and the way the game is called has changed the way players defend.

The rule change actually made players who couldn’t defend multiple parts of the floor obsolete....so the guys that can’t keep up either foul or are played off the floor.

Hand checking somebody because you’re too slow to guard them with your feet (the way basketball is taught) isn’t hamstringing a player. It’s exposing an inability. Defense is played differently today and the schemes are different. They aren’t not defending any less than the good/bad defensive teams of any era.

The good defensive teams of today adapted, have the personnel and schemes to play good defense. The bad ones don’t. That’s how it’s always been.

If you’d argue refs are too quick to call a flagrant or tech...I’m with you. But to act like “teams don’t play defense” because players aren’t getting mugged on drives is false.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

I'll still never understand Lakers fans obsession with Harden when their team hasn't even been relevant until now while he's been in the league.

Like, I could see if they had some playoff series against each other and Harden completely sucked, but that isn't remotely the case

I don't wanna have a long debate about this but honestly it's because a lot of things Kobe was criticized for, harden gets praised for by those same people. I remember Kobe had a quote about how his misses created rebounding opportunities for his teammates. Now that's a legit strategy in today's NBA. Kobe 'quit' on his team when he got trapped but harden was making the right play. Kobe ran off Shaq after actually winning 3 rings but you don't hear anything about harden and Paul or how they didn't even acknowledge each other when they played this year etc. It is what it is

 

[Platinum State]

How many surgeries has Blake had on his knees? Gotta be at least 5 by now

 

[B Sox]

Chris Paul
Paul George
Kawhi
Dekobe
Giannis (he has small forward tendencies)
Stringer
Booker
Luka
Westbrook

Pimping ain’t dead it just moved to the web

How many times does this have to be addressed in here? Basically every great player does it. Even players that aren't great do it. Young guys like Tatum/Luka/Book/Ingram do it all the time. Older guys like CP do it all the time.

Harden is really the only exception. That's it.

Someone seems to bring up the mid range and whatnot every few days

 

[trynafeelmink]

Ahh...so this is really a “Harden” hate post in disguise by Lakers/Kobe fans....

I see it .

LMFAOOO at the thought of having to "secretly" trash Harden

whenever i hear "greatest offensive player ever" i look at the playoff numbers, see that he shoots 41/32/87, Remember that he got benched in an ELIMINATION game in favor of Josh Smith..... and chuckle loudly to myself

 

[Vincent Van Goat]

As much posturing as rick did with saying they don’t post Luka, luka posts up on his own regularly

 

[QU!K]

oh now you wanna boast about a former laker?

I have no problems paying respects to the 5 GOAT Lakers

Kareem
Magic
Shaq
Wilt
Logo

 

[B Sox]

As much posturing as rick did with saying they don’t post Luka, luka posts up on his own regularly

All the time.

 

[sohi 23]

hiding Behind pace to say that the game hasn’t changed and stats are comparable across eras is asinine.

A player shot 7 threes in 1993. = the game is exactly the same

 

[akajae]

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Agree to disagree, I suppose.

 

[Based Jesus]

The rule change actually made players who couldn’t defend multiple parts of the floor obsolete....so the guys that can’t keep up either foul or are played off the floor.

Hand checking somebody because you’re too slow to guard them with your feet (the way basketball is taught) isn’t hamstringing a player. It’s exposing an inability. Defense is played differently today and the schemes are different. They aren’t not defending any less than the good/bad defensive teams of any era.

The good defensive teams of today adapted, have the personnel and schemes to play good defense. The bad ones don’t. That’s how it’s always been.

If you’d argue refs are too quick to call a flagrant or tech...I’m with you. But to act like “teams don’t play defense” because players aren’t getting mugged on drives is false.

If someone doesn't bleed, is defense even being played? If your GOAT doesn't have CTE did he ever play a good team?

 

[MVP]

 

[trynafeelmink]

Literally dozens of coaches & ball players have all come out and said that the rule changes have made it extremely more difficult to play defense.... The league has been clear as day and adamant about the rule changes being implemented to boost scoring....

Yet somehow we are trying to discredit players for simply stating, "the rules allow for easier scoring opportunities so that should be taken into consideration when comparing different eras"