THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

[MVP]

Kidd isn't better than CP3, Nash, or Harden as far as PGs, let alone players at other positions.

Meh. Kidd is a first ballot HOFer, champion, 6x all NBA, 9x all NBA defensive 1st team, ROY, and led his team to the finals twice. He has as good a claim as anyone based on his resume.

Harden for damn sure ain't getting anywhere near this list as of right now.

 

[CDFTDOT]

Lol, Boosie wildin on IG live.

Got girls showing it all for $25.

 

[addict4sneakers]

GP > Kidd

 

[trynafeelmink]

Mutumbo > Iverson

Wateva ya'll have is worse then the rona

 

[T0INE]

Lebby
Mamba IRIP)
KD
Steph
Timmy
Dirk
KG
Wade
Nash
AI

 

[JD617]

LeBron
Duncan
KG
Kobe
Dirk
Nash
Curry
CP3
Durant
Wade

 

[B Sox]

Meh. Kidd is a first ballot HOFer, champion, 6x all NBA, 9x all NBA defensive 1st team, ROY, and led his team to the finals twice. He has as good a claim as anyone based on his resume.

Harden for damn sure ain't getting anywhere near this list as of right now.

He's absolutely a first ballot HOFer for sure. Let's dig a little deeper though...

Led his team to the finals twice
- 2002 Nets- Got SWEPT as THE guy
EDIT- Forgot they made the finals the following year against the Spurs
- 2011 Mavs- Averaged 8/5/6 on 39% shooting


By the end of this season, Harden will be 7x All-NBA (6x 1st Team), Top 2 in MVP 4x (1 win), and Top 2 in Scoring 6x (3x 1st). Maybe he can make a finals being a 5th/6th man like Kidd later in his career too.

 

[P C H]

Best TNT theme song

 

[Cashflow]

 

[do work son]

He's absolutely a first ballot HOFer for sure. Let's dig a little deeper though...

Led his team to the finals twice
- 2002 Nets- Got SWEPT as THE guy.
- 2011 Mavs- Averaged 8/5/6 on 39% shooting

By the end of this season, Harden will be 7x All-NBA (6x 1st Team), Top 2 in MVP 4x (1 win), and Top 2 in Scoring 6x (3x 1st). Maybe he can make a finals being a 5th/6th man like Kidd later in his career too.

i don't think anyone is counting that 2011 as leading his team to the finals. nets went back to back in 01-02 and 02-03 and lost to the lakers and spurs with kidd as "the guy".

but since we're talking about it. the 01-02 season, the nets finished 1st in the east with 52 wins. that was good for 5th in the west. 02-03 season they finished 2nd in the east with 49 wins, good for 7th in the west. the east was such a joke

 

[B Sox]

i don't think anyone is counting that 2011 as leading his team to the finals. nets went back to back in 01-02 and 02-03 and lost to the lakers and spurs with kidd as "the guy".

but since we're talking about it. the 01-02 season, the nets finished 1st in the east with 52 wins. that was good for 5th in the west. 02-03 season they finished 2nd in the east with 49 wins, good for 7th in the west. the east was such a joke

Yeah that was my bad. I honestly forgot they made the finals against the Spurs the following year. East was so damn trash.

 

[darthska]

he definitely has his share of playoff clunkers to cite to, but using that series to support an argument that harden is a choker is just poor logic.

I'm not using that series to support an argument that he's a choker, though. I'm simply making the statement that he has never been on a team and gotten past the WCF with him as the main guy. Again, that's just a factual statement.

I'll add this, too: a comfortable thing that overall stats blanket is crunch time moments and individual games. If someone has a fairly pedestrian game 7, that gets blanketed when the conversation is shifted to their overall stats for the series.

You know that, though.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

a finals being a 5th/6th man like Kidd later in his career too
Maybe he can make a finals being a 5th/6th man like Kidd later in his career too.

He did that already. It wasn't pretty.

Yall keep tryna sugar-coat his narrative and I don't get it . Just rank him where he belongs with the Iversons and Barkleys and call it a day

 

[darthska]

Kidd isn't better than CP3, Nash, or Harden as far as PGs, let alone players at other positions.

Good job, NT. We have finally moved past the importance of Finals appearances and championships on conversations about individuals. The Finals literally mean nothing in that conversation anymore.

 

[B Sox]

He did that already. It wasn't pretty.

Yall keep tryna sugar-coat his narrative and I don't get it . Just rank him where he belongs with the Iversons and Barkleys and call it a day

What are people trying to sugar coat? People been said he was this generation's Karl Malone. He's consistently a top 5 player in the league, but is playing at a time with 3 guys that people in here consider to be top 15 players of all-time. He just isn't that. Just like Malone wasn't Jordan or Hakeem or Shaq.

 

[lawdog1]

Good job, NT. We have finally moved past the importance of Finals appearances and championships on conversations about individuals. The Finals literally mean nothing in that conversation anymore.

Not true that it means nothing. It just doesn’t carry as much weight as maybe it used to compared to all other relevant considerations.

And in Kidd’s case, he got to the Finals twice on an East team when the East sucked and they got their asses handed to them each time. Then he got there once and won years later as a role player. To me, that’s not good enough to vault him over other guys mentioned.

Of course Finals appearances/wins still matter. The majority of other players in this discussion have that going for them - to varying degrees.

 

[do work son]

I'm not using that series to support an argument that he's a choker, though. I'm simply making the statement that he has never been on a team and gotten past the WCF with him as the main guy. Again, that's just a factual statement.

this is a complete non-sequitur and you keep repeating it as if you're making some profound point

the rest of us are having a conversation about that specific rockets/warriors series, and you're in the corner yelling "2+2=4!"

Good job, NT. We have finally moved past the importance of Finals appearances and championships on conversations about individuals. The Finals literally mean nothing in that conversation anymore.

you're taking jason kidd over steve nash, chris paul, and james harden because he made the finals twice?

 

[addict4sneakers]

Those nets teams were only the second worst finals teams of the decade to lebrons Cavs

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

What are people trying to sugar coat? People been said he was this generation's Karl Malone. He's consistently a top 5 player in the league, but is playing at a time with 3 guys that people in here consider to be top 15 players of all-time. He just isn't that. Just like Malone wasn't Jordan or Hakeem or Shaq.

Well you be made it sound like kidd just got lucky to be a 6th man on a finals team and harden would have a ring if he was. But yea it's mostly do work son with the sugar coated spin.

 

[lawdog1]

Those nets teams were only the second worst finals teams of the decade to lebrons Cavs

Yep. Or looking at it another way, swap prime Nash or CP3 for Kidd on those Nets teams and they’re likely just as good (in the East).

 

[youngwolf]

“Never forget” aka, I just found out.

 

[do work son]

Well you be made it sound like kidd just got lucky to be a 6th man on a finals team and harden would have a ring if he was. But yea it's mostly do work son with the sugar coated spin.

The more rational takeaway is that he played well and lost. it really isn't deeper than that. like I said it a few days ago, he definitely has his share of playoff clunkers to cite to, but using that series to support an argument that harden is a choker is just poor logic.

it's easier to ignore context and slap a label. he's definitely had his shortcomings (game 6 vs the clippers, game 6 vs the spurs, game 5 vs the warriors setting the TO record), but contextually, hes historically had weaker teams than the opposition.

being rational = sugar coating.

 

[tay1]

Just a GOAT doing GOAT things

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

being rational = sugar coating.

It's spin bro. I keep saying we watched the games. Harden played well but you act like he didn't make crucial mistakes that cost his team games. Especially in games 5 and 6. And then you keep posting his numbers against GSW or only bringing up 3 games where he choked like that's the whole story. Post his career playoff numbers. That's why people call him a choker or whatever word you wanna use to describe his performance for his career in the playoffs. Being a choker doesn't mean he's NEVER had good moments. It means over the course of 8+ years in the playoffs, you know what to expect from him.

 

[Zo gif]

this is a complete non-sequitur and you keep repeating it as if you're making some profound point

the rest of us are having a conversation about that specific rockets/warriors series, and you're in the corner yelling "2+2=4!"



you're taking jason kidd over steve nash, chris paul, and james harden because he made the finals twice?

3 times