Twitter fingers Vol shaq vs mcgee

[handullz]

Hell nah. You could play defense back then. He can't shoot and he definitely wasn't scoring on the big men back then.


Steve Francis would come close to averaging a triple today. Jason Kidd would average a triple... By far.

they wouldn't be a top five scoring point guard in today's game, doe.

and your "by far" statement is ridiculous. Kidd was an inefficient scorer. so was francis.

You have to be able to shoot the ball from the outside with some consistency in today's game. off the dribble and catch and shoot.

Kidd didn't get good until he was slow as hell, and francis was too inefficient. he shot too much and didn't have as large of an impact on the game as today's top point guards.

 

[jape]

Take a mid tier player like Travis Best. What would he be in today's era? Eric Snow?

Dudes wouldn't even sniff the floor based on their lack of offensive prowess.

yeah like patrick beverly, right?

like dellavadova, right?

 

[Maximus Meridius]

Hell nah. You could play defense back then. He can't shoot and he definitely wasn't scoring on the big men back then.


Steve Francis would come close to averaging a triple today. Jason Kidd would average a triple... By far.

they wouldn't be a top five scoring point guard in today's game, doe.

and your "by far" statement is ridiculous. Kidd was an inefficient scorer. so was francis.

You have to be able to shoot the ball from the outside with some consistency in today's game. off the dribble and catch and shoot.

Kidd didn't get good until he was slow as hell, and francis was too inefficient. he shot too much and didn't have as large of an impact on the game as today's top point guards.

He was inefficient cuz it wasn't as easy to score then like it is now. Steve Francis couldn't score off the dribble?


You saying Suns and Nets Jason Kidd was slow? Pass the loud. Jason wasn't a great scorer but he could get 15, 12, 10 today. Easy work.

 

[jape]

i guess dennis schroeder has amazing offensive prowess as much burn as he gets

 

[wavycrocket]

The philosophy was different in the early 00s....hence the inefficiency

Coaches and players thought it was good basketball to put the hands in your best wing player on the side....and let him create there.

Funny thing about the early 00s is the Mavs, Suns, Blazers, Kings etc EXCELLED....because they bucked those trends and had free flowing offenses....at the time when the majority of the league was still playing ISO ball. Especially the Suns.

Problem is....they played in an era....and conference dominated by 3 of the top 5-10 players of all time (Shaq/Kobe/Duncan)....and two of the best head coaches of all time (Phil & Pop)

It's no coincidence that the Spurs and Lakers combined for 7 out of the 9 titles from 2000-2009....(and the Celtics defense is what is used TO THIS DAY as the principle defense).

The next best teams were all teams that set the precedent for the better basketball we see today (ball movement, small ball, etc)

 

[handullz]

He was inefficient cuz it wasn't as easy to score then like it is now. Steve Francis couldn't score off the dribble?


You saying Suns and Nets Jason Kidd was slow? Pass the loud. Jason wasn't a great scorer but he could get 15, 12, 10 today. Easy work.

and yet... you're taking the greatest point guard of that era, and giving him the same rebound assists numbers and half the points of TWO POINT GUARDS under 30 that are doing that RIGHT NOW.

sort of dilutes your point, right?

francis would be victor olidipo in today's game.

im willing to bet that damian lillard has more 40 point 10 assists games than jason kidd.

damian lillard could easily go back in the early 00s late 90s and put up guady stats just running iso ball.

 

[Maximus Meridius]

He was inefficient cuz it wasn't as easy to score then like it is now. Steve Francis couldn't score off the dribble?


You saying Suns and Nets Jason Kidd was slow? Pass the loud. Jason wasn't a great scorer but he could get 15, 12, 10 today. Easy work.

and yet... you're taking the greatest point guard of that era, and giving him the same rebound assists numbers and half the points of TWO POINT GUARDS under 30 that are doing that RIGHT NOW.

sort of dilutes your point, right?

francis would be victor olidipo in today's game.

im willing to bet that damian lillard has more 40 point 10 assists games than jason kidd.

damian lillard could easily go back in the early 00s late 90s and put up guady stats just running iso ball.

Nah it don't cuz Jason Kidd could easily do that in today's era. I love Westbrook but he's clearly stat padding. Harden is in a system that's run, 3, layup, no defense.

I'm sure Dame does have more 40 and 10 games cuz Kidd wasn't a great scorer. He still had a bigger impact on games than Dame. It's more to basketball than scoring.


Point is defense ain't as good as it used to be due to the rule changes and officiating. That's not even a debate. The league made the game easier for the fans and made officials call weak calls cuz they don't want physical play or trash talk cuz they're scared it might lead to a another Detroit brawl or people gonna call it a "thug" league again.

 

[tokes99]

He was inefficient cuz it wasn't as easy to score then like it is now. Steve Francis couldn't score off the dribble?


You saying Suns and Nets Jason Kidd was slow? Pass the loud. Jason wasn't a great scorer but he could get 15, 12, 10 today. Easy work.

and yet... you're taking the greatest point guard of that era, and giving him the same rebound assists numbers and half the points of TWO POINT GUARDS under 30 that are doing that RIGHT NOW.

sort of dilutes your point, right?

francis would be victor olidipo in today's game.

im willing to bet that damian lillard has more 40 point 10 assists games than jason kidd.

damian lillard could easily go back in the early 00s late 90s and put up guady stats just running iso ball.

Nah it don't cuz Jason Kidd could easily do that in today's era. I love Westbrook but he's clearly stat padding. Harden is in a system that's run, 3, layup, no defense.

I'm sure Dame does have more 40 and 10 games cuz Kidd wasn't a great scorer. He still had a bigger impact on games than Dame. It's more to basketball than scoring.


Point is defense ain't as good as it used to be due to the rule changes and officiating. That's not even a debate. The league made the game easier for the fans and made officials call weak calls cuz they don't want physical play or trash talk cuz they're scared it might lead to a another Detroit brawl or people gonna call it a "thug" league again.

i agree about kidd > dame, i am not completely convinced lillard is really even a pg...but idea that defense "ain't as good" is a kinda myopic way of looking at it, no it isn't the physical defense of bygone eras, precisely because the game is different; it is a simple concept. the rules were changed in attempt to improve the product...think of a guard like derek harper or mark jackson having to match up with guys like russell westbrook/early d.rose, the best way they could stay in front of them was to be physical, and to the extent this, simple physicality, became a strategy, it hurt the game...furthermore i kinda think the nba had an eye towards the international game & competition, which was a more fluid game

 

[chadleroy]

handullz srs??? Lmao you have no idea how to take the game in context. Step away from the stats column this ain't 2k. Kidd would flourish in today's style in the open floor.

 

[chadleroy]

defense is more COMPLEX b/c the very reasaons you just quoted.

You can't just HOLD your opponent b/c you're stronger than them. You have to actually MOVE your feet, and use HELP side defenders better

and no, scoring is not WAY up.

This isn't like the NFL where you're seeing mediocre QBs get 4k yards in passing.

How many players averaged over 30 ppg in the last 5 years vs the previous 10? If this were the case, 30 ppg scoreres would be way up and it's not.

Take a mid tier player like Travis Best. What would he be in today's era? Eric Snow?

Dudes wouldn't even sniff the floor based on their lack of offensive prowess.

they wouldn't be a top five scoring point guard in today's game, doe.

and your "by far" statement is ridiculous. Kidd was an inefficient scorer. so was francis.

You have to be able to shoot the ball from the outside with some consistency in today's game. off the dribble and catch and shoot.

Kidd didn't get good until he was slow as hell, and francis was too inefficient. he shot too much and didn't have as large of an impact on the game as today's top point guards.

and yet... you're taking the greatest point guard of that era, and giving him the same rebound assists numbers and half the points of TWO POINT GUARDS under 30 that are doing that RIGHT NOW.

sort of dilutes your point, right?

francis would be victor olidipo in today's game.

im willing to bet that damian lillard has more 40 point 10 assists games than jason kidd.

damian lillard could easily go back in the early 00s late 90s and put up guady stats just running iso ball.

are you even reading what you're typing???

 

[clyde the glide]

That comment about kidd might be top 5 dumbest things I've read on here

 

[wavycrocket]

handullz srs??? Lmao you have no idea how to take the game in context. Step away from the stats column this ain't 2k. Kidd would flourish in today's style in the open floor.

Prime J Kidd couldn't shoot though...

He COULD be a liability. But these are all hypotheticals

It kills me when y'all say "step away from the stats column"....like we all didn't come up during that time and watched the games and **** .

This ain't like we talking about 60s basketball.

It's crazy to me that some dudes in here can't recognize why late 90s-Early 00s NBA wasn't good.

As said before...the leave goes through peaks and valleys. That was a down time in the NBA following a golden era.

We're back in a golden era today.

 

[chadleroy]

Didn't know defenders just learned how to move their feet after 2010.

Didn't know the use of help side defense was better this era.

Didn't know Jason Kidd couldn't get buckets in today's era despite a lack of rim protection.

Didn't know Steve Francis would struggle because he's an inefficient scorer but he shot the same % as Westbrook does today on almost ten less shots per game.

You see how ridiculous that is?

 

[gentrification]

Shout to over dribbling and iso ball. And1 was real heavy during that time as well. [emoji]128526[/emoji][emoji]128526[/emoji][emoji]128526[/emoji]

 

[Lovetohate3000]

There's only a few entertaining teams worth watching even today. Lot of garbage ball being played.even the all star game is unwatchable nowadays.
Golden era today, lol. Like I said I've enjoyed all the eras and I've been a hardcore fan since the mid 90s. Pro and cons in every era, nothing is perfect or ever will be .
To act like basketball of today is the best it ever has been is just not being realistic.
I actually find myself watching less ball then I ever have in my life cause alot of it just isn't entertaining.

 

[clyde the glide]

Lol this the golden era for stat geeks. If u actually enjoyed the golden era the NBA today is kinda hard to watch consistently.

 

[chadleroy]

Lol this the golden era for stat geeks. If u actually enjoyed the golden era the NBA today is kinda hard to watch consistently.

Exactly. Fans recognize it too. Ratings are lower than ever.

 

[Master Zik]

Lol this the golden era for stat geeks. If u actually enjoyed the golden era the NBA today is kinda hard to watch consistently.

Yeah I noticed that a few years ago with the stars. Dudes are losers.

They keep saying the league is the most skilled/talented ever but I don't see it in the games.

 

[Peep Game]

The philosophy was different in the early 00s....hence the inefficiency

Coaches and players thought it was good basketball to put the hands in your best wing player on the side....and let him create there.

Funny thing about the early 00s is the Mavs, Suns, Blazers, Kings etc EXCELLED....because they bucked those trends and had free flowing offenses....at the time when the majority of the league was still playing ISO ball. Especially the Suns.

Problem is....they played in an era....and conference dominated by 3 of the top 5-10 players of all time (Shaq/Kobe/Duncan)....and two of the best head coaches of all time (Phil & Pop)

It's no coincidence that the Spurs and Lakers combined for 7 out of the 9 titles from 2000-2009....(and the Celtics defense is what is used TO THIS DAY as the principle defense).

The next best teams were all teams that set the precedent for the better basketball we see today (ball movement, small ball, etc)

I agree with all of this except the "better basketball we see today" part

 

[Mark Antony]

Dudes putting up all these stats but aren't seen as dominant superstars, a lot of the recognized superstars are still holdovers from a better era.

 

[frshstunna]

He was inefficient cuz it wasn't as easy to score then like it is now. Steve Francis couldn't score off the dribble?


You saying Suns and Nets Jason Kidd was slow? Pass the loud. Jason wasn't a great scorer but he could get 15, 12, 10 today. Easy work.

and yet... you're taking the greatest point guard of that era, and giving him the same rebound assists numbers and half the points of TWO POINT GUARDS under 30 that are doing that RIGHT NOW.

sort of dilutes your point, right?

francis would be victor olidipo in today's game.

im willing to bet that damian lillard has more 40 point 10 assists games than jason kidd.

damian lillard could easily go back in the early 00s late 90s and put up guady stats just running iso ball.

Steve Francis woulda been even BETTER playing these days...give him the space and freedom of movement combined with his elite athleticsm and quickness and he'll def be doing numbers...add in the faster pace and more shots these days too woulda been killin

Oladipo wishes he had close to the skills Franchise had, let not sleep on some of the actual talent from the late 90's and early 00's just cuz the game is being played different and better efficiency now

I dont wanna say "better basketball" overall cuz the game always changes n certain things get better/worse at the same time

 

[tokes99]

Lol this the golden era for stat geeks. If u actually enjoyed the golden era the NBA today is kinda hard to watch consistently.

Exactly. Fans recognize it too. Ratings are lower than ever.

do you know this to be true? and if it were, you'd attribute it to poor play relative to past eras?

Lol this the golden era for stat geeks. If u actually enjoyed the golden era the NBA today is kinda hard to watch consistently.

Yeah I noticed that a few years ago with the stars. Dudes are losers.

They keep saying the league is the most skilled/talented ever but I don't see it in the games.

advanced metrics has added a new dimension/way to look not only at individual parts but also how those parts work together in different combinations with pretty wild detail in more or less real time & not retroactively looking at past seasons, so it kinda is a golden era for the more statistically inclined...these 'advanced' metrics don't tell the full story but neither did the the traditional way of the "eye test"

i think those that say "the league is the most skilled/talented ever" are talking about a couple things:

1. the baseline level of athleticism is definitely higher...the bigger, faster, stronger syndrome

2. the outliers, there are more guys that are just kinda freakish talented in ways that look altogether different than in the past

3. the game has much more positional flexibility, i don't know that this is solely because players are more talented but it does seem like coaches are more willing to experiment now

however it does feel like players these days aren't as fundamentally sound, overall players don't seem have the same baseline 'basketball iq' of earlier eras (the erstwhile subject of this thread, javale mcgee, has at times been almost the epitome of talented player showing flashes of being able to be productive but just getting in his own way with poor decision making), whole parts of the game have been greatly diminished or almost outright discarded (mid range & post play) and organizations just run their teams much differently...and as such the league is probably less competitive than it could be, but but i definitely prefer watching the better teams of this era compared to the eras that preceded it...

 

[chadleroy]

do you know this to be true? and if it were, you'd attribute it to poor play relative to past eras?

https://www.sportstalkflorida.com/uncategorized/nba-tv-ratings/

http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/201...ing-regular-season-playoffs-still-doing-well/

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/You-Know-Whose-Ratings-Really-Down-NBA-107187.html

Imo the competition level is way too low for professional sports. I also think that cord cutting and streaming media are affecting it too.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

There's only a few entertaining teams worth watching even today. Lot of garbage ball being played.even the all star game is unwatchable nowadays.
Golden era today, lol. Like I said I've enjoyed all the eras and I've been a hardcore fan since the mid 90s. Pro and cons in every era, nothing is perfect or ever will be .
To act like basketball of today is the best it ever has been is just not being realistic.
I actually find myself watching less ball then I ever have in my life cause alot of it just isn't entertaining.

I am pretty sure part of the reason is because you are a grown man with responsibilities.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Exactly. Fans recognize it too. Ratings are lower than ever.

Out of context statement.

Ratings are down but people have WAY more ways to watch today that won't be counted by the Nielsen Ratings.

So that really isn't a fair statement to make