ohmygosher
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Naw, kids weren't trying to get away after committing a crime.
Walmart security guard shoots 'shoplifting' mother dead in parking lot as she tries to escape with t
Naw, kids weren't trying to get away after committing a crime.
rex ryan
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We can argue whether the cop was justified in shooting her out of fear he might get ran over. Hopefully a tape comes out and both sides can view it with an unbiased viewpoint.
What's indisputable is that the woman wasnt supposed to even be there in the first place. Had she abided to the terms of her plea deal she alive right now. No matter your view on whether the shooting was justified or not you can't argue that.
Is there racist people in the world? Yes.
Are there racist cops? Yes
Are there trigger happy abusive cops? Again yes and these are all serious issues that need to be fixed as a whole in society.
From reading the whole story with an unbiased view, I stand behind my opinion that if they tried to run the cop over then he was justified. The shoplifting is irrelevant to that aspect. There's many situations that have been posted on here where the cop was in the wrong 100% and shouldn't have done the actions he did, from everything I've read this isn't one of those cases. If the wallet camera footage conflicts the cops story then I take that back.
What's indisputable is that the woman wasnt supposed to even be there in the first place. Had she abided to the terms of her plea deal she alive right now. No matter your view on whether the shooting was justified or not you can't argue that.
Is there racist people in the world? Yes.
Are there racist cops? Yes
Are there trigger happy abusive cops? Again yes and these are all serious issues that need to be fixed as a whole in society.
From reading the whole story with an unbiased view, I stand behind my opinion that if they tried to run the cop over then he was justified. The shoplifting is irrelevant to that aspect. There's many situations that have been posted on here where the cop was in the wrong 100% and shouldn't have done the actions he did, from everything I've read this isn't one of those cases. If the wallet camera footage conflicts the cops story then I take that back.
gatzbygordon
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yeah i dont really think its legit..
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I didn't say you, I said "some of you." If the shoe fits, wear it. Some people are exhibiting a very sheltered worldview.
If a woman is sexually assaulted and your first instinct is to say, "I bet she was asking for it. She probably dressed like a tramp." that response speaks volumes.
And that's part of what we're dealing with here.
Seriously, make a list of all the things that you do every single day to protect yourself from sexual assault. If you're a guy, that's a very short list - and it probably begins and ends with "don't go to prison." So it really takes some nerve to say, of a rape victim, "It's really easy not to get raped. Just don't put yourself in that situation. Plus, I hear she mouthed off and slapped the guy. Big mistake. Once you strike a man, all bets are off." That's garbage.
That's like Geraldo saying, "parents of dark-skinned children should never let their kids wear hoodies." It places the onus squarely on people of color to avoid triggering any irrational, racist fears. It allows prejudice to create the boundaries within which everyone else must live. Even that's no guarantee.
To just sit there and glibly say, "well, if you don't want your kids to be shot at then don't take them in the car with you when you go shoplifting." is like Mitt Romney telling kids who can't afford to attend college that they should just borrow money from their parents. If you didn't know who Mitt Romney was and you just read his "solution" to out of control tuition costs, would it be unfair to suppose that he might come from a privileged background?
If you make an out of touch assumption, that does say something about your perspective.
We don't have all the facts. My position is that you can't rule out race because this incident didn't occur in a social vacuum.
You've gone so far as to suggest that anyone who thinks race is a factor is "playing the race card." How in the world do you know it wasn't a factor?
If you see racism as a purely individual act, rather than something systemic, I can understand why you might assume that racism is somehow just a matter of "opposites," like the Black Panther Party is just a "bizarro" Klan, etc. etc. Such a view is lacking in context.
It is not rational to assume that a Black police officer would be more likely to shoot a White suspect due to racial bias. If you look at actual search/arrest data, the trend you'll generally find is that officers of color are LESS biased AGAINST people of color - not that their biases are somehow "inverted" and they go around targeting White people. They're still more likely to stop, search, and arrest people of their own race than they are to stop, search, and arrest White people. This speaks, in part, to the culture of law enforcement, but it also speaks to the hierarchical direction of social bias in popular culture as well.
Let's say, hypothetically, that a woman is denied a promotion even though she's more qualified and experienced than the man who wound up getting the job. If the person who made the decision was also a woman, does that automatically rule out sexism? No. It's entirely possible for a woman to be subconsciously influenced by sexism, to believe that male assertiveness is a sign of confidence while female assertiveness makes her "difficult", "catty", or an "ice queen." Are women, as a group, less likely to allow sexism to influence hiring decisions? Yes, but they aren't impervious to it. We all inhabit the same society.
Seriously, do you think there's a special version of COPS out there in which all the perps are White? When you watch "Live and Let Die" on Viacom-owned BET, James Bond is played by Yaphet Kotto and he's chasing down a group of White ecstasy dealers in Chelsea?
There are prevailing social biases that everyone is exposed to. The difference is, not everyone has the same personal experiences to draw from in counteracting these biases.
Carlton Banks might have made the same decision as this particular police officer, for example, and if that were the case could you really sit back and say, "See? Race has nothing to do with it. Carlton's Black. If anything, he would've been more likely to spare a Black suspect and shoot a White suspect." That makes no sense.
So, when we talk about the possibility that race has influenced the officer's decisions, what we're referring to is our knowledge of PREVAILING social biases, not an assumption about where this particular police officer grew up and what his personal beliefs are.
Essential to the calculus in this case is the assumption of a threat. Under what circumstances is an unarmed shoplifter presenting mortal danger to an armed security guard with police training?
If it seems like an irrational fear... well... what's the obvious source of irrational fear in this case?
Anything can happen?! That's valid to you? If you're suspected of a crime, anything can happen - and that's acceptable?
Again, that's not what the 19 year old kid running out of the frat house thinks. He's resisting arrest. Should he be shot in the back?
What about that recently posted Youtube video of the kid who pulls out his iphone and starts talking back to the cop? In his world, cops exist to serve people like him. He's gonna "lawyer them" and put them in their place. Clearly he's not concerned about being beaten or shot in the face for being less than 100% compliant/subordinate.
No one's saying that it's okay to shoplift, but if you aren't concerned about what this "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality means to you and to your family then clearly you never expect to be mistaken for a criminal. If that's so, good for you.
What about everyone else?
If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time and a guy who's been following you thinks you're the same person who's been burglarizing his neighborhood, the correct thing to do is just lie down on the ground with your hands behind your back - because otherwise anything could happen?
That's just it: this woman didn't GET to go to court; did she? She didn't receive due process. A Walmart security guard was her judge, jury, and executioner.
He decided she was guilty. He decided she was dangerous. He decided that she deserved to die. If he saw those kids - and this was a car, according to the article, so it's not like they were hidden away in the back of a van - then he apparently decided that their safety was of lesser concern than his. If they were driving AWAY, as witnesses claim, then he wasn't truly in any danger and he believed the value of the stolen merchandise was worth more than every single life in that vehicle.
If you don't think there's any possible chance that race could've been a factor there... I'd love to live in your world. Talk about utopia.
I don't necessarily consider this "cold-blooded murder." More likely, this is a person who succumbed to 1) an irrational fear and 2) a subconscious evaluation of the driver and passengers' worth, both of which may have been influenced by race.
Once you place somebody into this non-human category of "violent criminal," then we get something that's very much like what you're talking about - where "all bets are off" and you get into cartoonish good/bad territory where the hero is well within his or her rights to blow away the baddies in the middle of a public street without even a passing concern for due process, excessive use of force, or collateral damage.
Forgive me if I'm troubled by where that leaves us as a society.
This is the same reason why people are so troubled by the way alleged "terror suspects" are handled without any regard for their rights.
If this is how one can reasonably treat criminals... then we'd better all hope that we're never mistaken for a criminal.
And it's easiest to say, "well that won't ever happen to me or my family" if you don't fit the description.
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So if the reason the officer discharged his weapon is because he felt in fear that the car was going to run over him, how does it make sense that he shot the PASSENGER who has no control over the vehicle?
That makes ZERO sense and anybody with half a brain knows that.
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Sheltered is a wonderful way to put some of these folks
willing to defend and justify taking a life
because she was in the car she deserved to be shot regardless of whether she was driving. says so much about you guys.
willing to defend and justify taking a life
because she was in the car she deserved to be shot regardless of whether she was driving. says so much about you guys.
powerballin
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NT has gone to crap when only a couple of users and a mod make sense 18 pages in and the point still doesn't get across. Grow up NT.
ohmygosher
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Just because he shot the passenger doesn't mean he was aiming for her.
A lot of possible factors could of lead to her being shot instead of the driver.
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I feel like people just agree with Meth because it's Meth. Whatever he says the sheep will agree with. Whatever.
powerballin
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Thats usually true but his like my opinion seems like the minority in here which is sad and scary. He pretty much said what I did several pages ago. I glad he voiced his opinion because NT is lacking adults with real life experience.
rex ryan
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I love how anyone who looks at this this and factors everything in play "lacks real life expierence".
That's Niketalk for you though.
That's Niketalk for you though.
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they obviously do..
or else there wouldnt be one post saying she deserved it...
very few things are worth taking another humans life....shoplifting sure as hell isnt on the list....
in the military we had rules of engagement and escalation of force rules...im sure cops do too...hopefully dude spends the rest of his living days in prison...
rex ryan
Banned
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I understand that but if she was shot for shoplifting id agree with you 100% but that's not the case.
She got caught for shoplifting (which being realistic, given her situation being banned from there and her plea deal she woulda got a stiff punishement and deservedly so through the legal system)
Its her actions after she got caught that are debatable in the role they played in her death. If the cop was trigger happy and completely overreacted and the evidence comes to show that then he should be punished accordingly but if evidence comes out that shoes otherwise then the woman's actions are to blame if she and her friend really did try to run the officer over.
It's a sad situation but this woman shouldn't be portrayed as a victim to me. The issue of whether the use of force was justified can be debated but the fact that if she simply followed her plea deal which isn't that hard she would be alive today. That doesn't change the debate between if the cop overreacted or not but its a fact
This isn't an amadou diallo type case where the person shot was an innocent victim
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I've yet to hear a reasonable explanation as to how shooting the driver of a car that is moving toward you is going to get the car to stop.
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powerballin
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When people get shot they hit the brakes instead of feeling pain and losing control of the car....you didn't know?
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U dont watch movies? When people get shot while driving they always floor it and crash into something shortly after and catching on fire
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We can do better
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method man spit mad truth and is essentially what i said previously. the security officer used excessive force. dude has a gun and felt the need to use it to emphasize the power he felt he had in order to control the situation. there was no reason to open fire on a woman for stealing clothes. trigger happy cops don't care. and method man put it beautifully.
to build off that i want to share an excerpt from Jason Whitlock's article that Bob Costas featured on his halftime show...
"How many young people have to die senselessly? How many lives have to be ruined before we realize the right to bear arms doesn’t protect us from a government equipped with stealth bombers, predator drones, tanks and nuclear weapons?
Our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead.......
....Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it."
i underlined the point i want to make very clear. that sentence is what our society is all about.
to build off that i want to share an excerpt from Jason Whitlock's article that Bob Costas featured on his halftime show...
"How many young people have to die senselessly? How many lives have to be ruined before we realize the right to bear arms doesn’t protect us from a government equipped with stealth bombers, predator drones, tanks and nuclear weapons?
Our current gun culture simply ensures that more and more domestic disputes will end in the ultimate tragedy, and that more convenience-store confrontations over loud music coming from a car will leave more teenage boys bloodied and dead.......
....Handguns do not enhance our safety. They exacerbate our flaws, tempt us to escalate arguments, and bait us into embracing confrontation rather than avoiding it."
i underlined the point i want to make very clear. that sentence is what our society is all about.
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knightlovesqueen
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some of NTers are just way too blind to see what institutionalized racism has done to america.
and it isnt just the white people who have been washed.
and it isnt just the white people who have been washed.
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Not to take sides but if she didn't shoplift, if she didn't try to run away, if she didn't try to hit the officer then the officer would have zero motive to pull out his gun
Sure, the reaction is excessive, but when I'm placed in a situation where my opponent has a gun, I try to give them as little reason as possible to use it
Both parties need to be held accountable for their actions and the reactions that followed.
Sure, the reaction is excessive, but when I'm placed in a situation where my opponent has a gun, I try to give them as little reason as possible to use it
Both parties need to be held accountable for their actions and the reactions that followed.
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seemed like she was mentally unstable from the start. she was banned from walmart for stealing yet she went back.
mmg
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Or she was just a hood rat that didn't care about the law.
