WELCOME TO THE MARVEL MULTIVERSE -*RIP STAN LEE & Boseman* - XMEN97 FINALE out now

[SneakerProSr.]

I'm sorry but Zemo's plan was absurd.

He could have emailed the video to Tony and called it a day.

You know I assume he does that if IM doesn't show up at the end with Cap and Bucky.

Like it would've been worse if he just posted it on the internet to make sure everyone knew.

I would've paid extra to see the other Avengers reaction to that

That would have made the fight lit as hell.

Show the video and prove somehow Cap knew.

It would have made the whole Civil War aspect more believable

It would have the whole squad knowing Cap is a hypocrite.

 

[Master Zik]

I read the rundown Zemo's plan on TV Tropes and I'm going to copy and paste it here

Spoiler

First, after getting a hold of the Winter Soldier's code book, he disguises himself as Bucky and bombs a peace summit. This starts a manhunt for Bucky with orders to shoot on sight (which even Bucky notes is a smart play), and because of the Accords, Captain America isn't allowed to interfere. Cap interferes, causing tension in the team. Once Bucky is arrested, Zemo goes to talk to him as the UN-sanctioned psychologist (having killed the real one), has an EMP take out the power, and while the cameras are down, activates Bucky using the code phrase and sends him on a rampage. As Cap is rescuing Bucky, Zemo drops hints that he is going to recover the other five Winter Soldiers from stasis and unleash them on the world, convincing Cap that there's no time to sit down and come to a peaceful solution with Tony. Instead, Cap and Bucky escape to Russia after a huge fight, resulting in Rhodey's injury and the imprisonment of the rest of Cap's team. Then, Zemo allows the corpse of the psychiatrist to be found, letting Tony realize he's been played and following Cap to Russia to help. Then Zemo reveals he killed all the sleeping Winter Soldiers, and shows Tony footage of Bucky killing his parents, which sends Tony into a rage.

Mad contrived.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

To me Zemo did not plan for the airport fight or Rhodey's injury. He didn't conveniently hide the dead psychiatrist and allow it to be found so Tony could find it and then follow.

When they talked at the airport before fighting Tony knew there was more to this (so did Natasha hence her stopping BP) but just wanted to stop Cap and Bucky so this wouldn't get more out of control and possibly get to the bottom of this together. Instead, Rhodey got hurt and Ross imprisoned the Avengers that gave themselves up so that Cap and Bucky could dip.

 

[flossb15]

In the military bunker he said something like hydra and the WS was behind a bunch of accidents in recent history and a news paper ad of the Starks car crash flashed on screen

I think that and the folder given to him at the end of the movie was the connecting points to knowing about WS killing Tony's parents

 

[sea manup]

It was kind of funny that after the whole debate of giving the government control over the avengers, it only took one mission for the entire government facility to be compromised.

 

[everysingletime]

That would have made the fight lit as hell.

I mean, was the fight not already lit? I don't think the audience reaction during the slow-mo of the last fight could've gotten any bigger

 

[tay1]

Zemos plan was solid and was a cool villian with limited screen time.

 

[Master Zik]

Tony Stark is Tony Stark.

Dude could have sent Tony a letter saying Bucky killed your folks and x,y,z has the video.

Tony would havd stepped to Cap right away.


The damn video wasn't needed.

Yes it was.

It's the whole reason he went off and tried to kill Bucky. Dude killed his moms.

Just telling him early on with no proof doesn't do what he wants accomplished. He wanted the Avengers to crumble from within. That doesn't happen with just Tony wanting to kill Bucky and Cap stepping in. Bombing the meeting about the accords and framing Bucky is key in causing more tension.

If he didn't this whole movie would've been Tony and Cap arguing at a table with Ross and them probably coming to some compromise. The hunt for Bucky distracts them.

 

[seasoned vet]

Yup. Zola told Cap that they arranged an accident for Tony. BW at the end gave Cap files on Bucky and he put two and two together.

didnt they also flash a picture of Howard Stark with a bunch of photos of people he'd taken out?

or was it an article of his accident?

something like that.

i remember thinking at the time, oh snap WS killed Tony's dad.

so as soon as i seen Tony doing that virtual reality of his daddy issues i knew he was going to find out, just didnt know how

 

[tay1]

You're insane if you dont think someone telling you your parents were killed and someone showing you would have a different effect

 

[sea manup]

Tony Stark is Tony Stark.

Dude could have sent Tony a letter saying Bucky killed your folks and x,y,z has the video.

Tony would havd stepped to Cap right away.


The damn video wasn't needed.

Yes it was.

It's the whole reason he went off and tried to kill Bucky. Dude killed his moms.

Just telling him early on with no proof doesn't do what he wants accomplished. He wanted the Avengers to crumble from within. That doesn't happen with just Tony wanting to kill Bucky and Cap stepping in. Bombing the meeting about the accords and framing Bucky is key in causing more tension.

If he didn't this whole movie would've been Tony and Cap arguing at a table with Ross and them probably coming to some compromise. The hunt for Bucky distracts them.

Also I think it's way more effective and impactful for it to happen at the climax when Bucky and Steve are standing next to him.

Adds to the feeling of betrayal.

 

[everysingletime]

Yup. Zola told Cap that they arranged an accident for Tony. BW at the end gave Cap files on Bucky and he put two and two together.

didnt they also flash a picture of Howard Stark with a bunch of photos of people he'd taken out?

or was it an article of his accident?

something like that.

i remember thinking at the time, oh snap WS killed Tony's dad.

so as soon as i seen Tony doing that virtual reality of his daddy issues i knew he was going to find out, just didnt know how

At the very least after Cap's encounter with Zola, he knew that Hydra had arranged an accident for Tony's parents. Now, he didn't know who did the killing. Then combined that with his obsession with Bucky and Natasha giving him the files he was able to figure out who exactly killed said parents.

Now Zemo knew that Hydra was involved in killing Tony's parents. It was why he targeted a Hydra agent (that dude who got hung upside down). He probably had strong suspicions that it was Winter Soldier, but just needed the proof.

 

[Mark Antony]

I'm not sure what kind of movie you want to make by having them just send emails early in the film. How would you flesh it out after that? And I think yall are missing that it was a slick *** way to get BP in the mix with real passion and some chemistry already existing with a team member.

 

[IATT]

Zemo had to blow up a building in disguise, hope that Bucky would be taken alive (despite the police being ordered to shoot on sight), ensure Bucky would have to be taken to a specific secure facility, and kill/disguise himself as the psychologist without being exposed until it was too late. Then, he has to go to the Siberian HYDRA facility, hope that Cap and Buck would evade capture and make it there, leak the details of his plot at just the right time for Iron Man to change his mind and follow them alone without backup, and have all three arrive there in that room at the same time


But as mentioned Zemo's actual motivation was fantastically solid, unlike Lex. But the major reaches of the plan, to create the outcome of what basically amounts to dry-snitching, were outright trash.

Zemo was just trying to create chaos amongst all the other players in the game.. He saw victory in planting the seeds of distrust amongst the group

I don't think he had an exact detail for detail plan per se.. He just needed to get them at odds with each other to some degree.. Then he had the big moves

For anyone who has ever had a roommate, they see how huge that comment tony made about the coffee thing in the sink is/was

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Yes it was.

It's the whole reason he went off and tried to kill Bucky. Dude killed his moms.

Just telling him early on with no proof doesn't do what he wants accomplished. He wanted the Avengers to crumble from within. That doesn't happen with just Tony wanting to kill Bucky and Cap stepping in. Bombing the meeting about the accords and framing Bucky is key in causing more tension.

If he didn't this whole movie would've been Tony and Cap arguing at a table with Ross and them probably coming to some compromise. The hunt for Bucky distracts them.

The video was needed due to the brutality of the killings. How Howard Stark died :x


I honestly would have just preferred he pulled a BvS and sent son the video in a power point. I don't recall if the video was specifically at the facility though. As for how to fan the flames of the conflict afterwards, there are plenty of options for that.

Wait, another thing, why is there crystal clear HD footage of a dark road in the backwoods of Russia in 1991?

 

[goldmember]

It's kinda hilarious Cap has been butthurt about secret keeping but when his boy took out The Starks he was going to take it to the grave.

 

[IATT]

Yup. Zola told Cap that they arranged an accident for Tony. BW at the end gave Cap files on Bucky and he put two and two together.

didnt they also flash a picture of Howard Stark with a bunch of photos of people he'd taken out?

or was it an article of his accident?

something like that.

i remember thinking at the time, oh snap WS killed Tony's dad.

so as soon as i seen Tony doing that virtual reality of his daddy issues i knew he was going to find out, just didnt know how

At the very least after Cap's encounter with Zola, he knew that Hydra had arranged an accident for Tony's parents. Now, he didn't know who did the killing. Then combined that with his obsession with Bucky and Natasha giving him the files he was able to figure out who exactly killed said parents.

Now Zemo knew that Hydra was involved in killing Tony's parents. It was why he targeted a Hydra agent (that dude who got hung upside down). He probably had strong suspicions that it was Winter Soldier, but just needed the proof.

Exactly.. I think he knew, but just needed the proof about the stark's

And Bucky and cap's relationship was in a museum in WS so he clearly had that info

 

[Master Zik]

Come to think of it cap knew and Nick Fury knew right?

Cap, BW, Fury, maybe Maria Hill (who works for Stark now), maybe Hawkeye knew by the time TWS is done.

 

[everysingletime]

After multiple posts, some of you guys are clearly missing the point that Zemo did not have the video at the beginning of the movie #kanyeshrug

 

[SneakerProSr.]

That would have made the fight lit as hell.

I mean, was the fight not already lit? I don't think the audience reaction during the slow-mo of the last fight could've gotten any bigger

Man I just don't think the Accords were a believable enough reason for good friends to start fighting each other.

I mean they basically disregard the government anyway when push comes to shove.

Just my opinion.

 

[flossb15]

The video was needed due to the brutality of the killings. How Howard Stark died :x


I honestly would have just preferred he pulled a BvS and sent son the video in a power point. I don't recall if the video was specifically at the facility though. As for how to fan the flames of the conflict afterwards, there are plenty of options for that.

Wait, another thing, why is there crystal clear HD footage of a dark road in the backwoods of Russia in 1991?

I get what you saying about footage, but it's possible ... My dad worked for govt. and used to always tell me they had technology 10 years in advance
So like fax machines etc that we get, already ate in play being tested out

 

[Master Zik]

Zemo had to blow up a building in disguise, hope that Bucky would be taken alive (despite the police being ordered to shoot on sight), ensure Bucky would have to be taken to a specific secure facility, and kill/disguise himself as the psychologist without being exposed until it was too late. Then, he has to go to the Siberian HYDRA facility, hope that Cap and Buck would evade capture and make it there, leak the details of his plot at just the right time for Iron Man to change his mind and follow them alone without backup, and have all three arrive there in that room at the same time


But as mentioned Zemo's actual motivation was fantastically solid, unlike Lex. But the major reaches of the plan, to create the outcome of what basically amounts to dry-snitching, were outright trash.

If Bucky had died while being pursued I imagine Zemo just looks for more Hydra agents to torture to get the location for where the vid is.

But hey maybe HISHE will do it the way you're thinking it could've easily went down.

 

[everysingletime]

That would have made the fight lit as hell.

I mean, was the fight not already lit? I don't think the audience reaction during the slow-mo of the last fight could've gotten any bigger

Man I just don't think the Accords were a believable enough reason for good friends to start fighting each other.

I mean they basically disregard the government anyway when push comes to shove.

Just my opinion.

It's not like they were fighting each other right away because of the Accords. They were just strongly disagreeing up until after Bucky escaped. Then there was the matter that the Accords tasked Tony with bringing Bucky in, but Steve was more concerned with locating Zemo.

Now if they just went staight to fighting right away because they couldn't agree on signing the paper, that would've been a very Batman v Superman - ish thing to do.

 

[sea manup]

They cut to cinematic portrayals of the murder of his parents which was the hd part but the characters were watching the single angle grainy CCTV feed

 

[IATT]

After multiple posts, some of you guys are clearly missing the point that Zemo did not have the video at the beginning of the movie #kanyeshrug

Doesn't mean he didn't have knowledge.. He was clearly aware of something just needed proof

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

After multiple posts, some of you guys are clearly missing the point that Zemo did not have the video at the beginning of the movie #kanyeshrug

Well it's a good thing Zemo is a fictional character whose actions comply with a movie script and we're discussing changes that might have been made to said script