Where will Big Yungin be in 2010... Does he in fact have Options???

[rockdeep]

I didn't want the new Lebron VII Thread to be further hi-jacked as that Design and Designer deserve its own Thread. I wish AP...aka Jason Petrie the verybest on this release.

But it did spark a great point counter point Discussion on Lebron James Options in 2010 when not only his NBA Contract expires, but so does his Nike Contract.Where Nike would LOVE him to go to NYC any other Brand would LOVE to Market him no matter where he goes or if he remains in Cleveland.

Prior Excerpts:

So it started with the Boom:

Originally Posted by Burns1923

Meh.

Hope LeBron goes to Under Armour. It's time.

Yeah, I said it.

The LBJ IV was the last good shoe in the line and now the line is simply treading water.

I don't think LeBron's line will ever really take off with Nike.

At least with Under Armour he can come from a completely different approach and have a brand built around him.

Nike can't do that with Jordan Brand, Kobe, and the dozens of other athletes they have.

It feels like I've seen the Huarache 2K4 redesigned into 10 different shoes in the past few years.

Then Burns got rollin...

Originally Posted by Burns1923


It's true that Zoom is great but even Zoom can't save every shoe it's put in. LBJ V and VI have been stylistic and commercial flops, in my opinion, (certainly not where they could, or should, have been) and this new VII looks like a team Nike shoe. Either Nike designers are confused about the type of player LeBron is and what his appeal is, or they simply don't have what it takes any longer.

Under Armour can make LeBron's sneaker appeal young again by putting all of their attention, resources, and energy behind him. I have this idea that they can explode with something genuinely new and LeBron is the athlete to open that door. And tell me the sneaker industry doesn't need something like this to happen. Clearly, complacency has dulled things. I really think the Nike/LeBron partnership has run its course; it simply didn't blow up like everyone thought; even the best LeBrons weren't sell-out phenoms (sneakerheads love the II's but even they ended up in outlets for $69.99 in plentiful amounts). At this point, his shoe line is mediocre. AZG was a great start, II was tremendous and the best in the line, III was a fresh design that kept it moving, and IV was a big leap forward and a great shoe.

On a side note, New Balance may not be a very "exciting" brand, but their shoes have been on point for decades. Their focus is on running and I applaud them for that. In my opinion, their running shoes dominate everyone else's.

I HAD to chime in....

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Bruh... Its

Its like your stealing my thoughts....

Next thing you know someone will accuse us of being the same person.... Its around that time of year....lol

Outlaw thought differently

Originally Posted by OutLaw2j

looks like another team nike basketball shoe to me. nike needs to fire all of these 50 and 60 year olds they have making these shoes. its time for a fresh new start. its not too late to revive the lebron line.

under armour sneakers will never appeal to any one. it wouldnt matter if they signed the whole all star team to a deal. we have seen it happen with adidas and several other shoe companies. they sign all the best players but they will never compare to nike.

....and then something happened.....

Originally Posted by DsLee559

To be honest...LeBron in UA wouldn't seem weird to me at all. I also agree with everyone saying how this Nike line isn't showing much potential anymore; despite his shoes looking decent.

Folks actually thinkin it might be feasible.... in the NIKE Forum.. on NIKETALK no less... ???

But I digress...

Originally Posted by wmg23

Although the VII looks decent, IMO i dont think it is as good as the VI... I love the look of the VI and i wish i had the money to buy every pair that came out but couldnt... VII is not horrible but it looks like a cross between the BB 1 and the new Huarache... Lebron going to UA would be very interesting... UA needs a major star under contract with them and just like some one above said, they can put all the backing behind Lebrons line because they dont have to worry about satisfying other major Athletes... Nike really does need to fire those 50 and 60 year olds and hire BP to do all of the designs lol... but seriously tho they need to..

I would definately rock a pair of Under Armour Lebron I if that happens.. So if any of you had to predict, what is the likely hood that Under Armour can sign Lebron and when exactly this year or next is Lebrons contract up>???? I see it now... Under Armour Lebron I, November 2010... You heard it hear first lol

Riiiight... but hey... confident in his Opinion.. I like it.

Then suddenly more speculation and thinking outside the Box..... I like this too.... The thinking outside the box that is..

Originally Posted by ObiWonGinobili

lebron will prolly work a deal the same way fiddy did with vitamin water...sign with them in exchange for a major stake in the company just in time for nike to buy UA out, getting lebron closer to his billionaire status.

Then.. more hunches... well the same ones.. just repeated...

Originally Posted by wmg23

Just call it a hunch but Lebron will sign with Under ARmour and the Under ARmour Lebron I will be in store November 2010... Just a hunch lol.... but in all seriousness, do you really think Lebron will jet for Under Armour???? Or what if he goes to the 3 striped company?? Yikes

Of course I would be remiss if I didn't add my 2 cents...

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Well many of you (which Im surprised) are on the right thinking with your assessments of why Big Youngin would leave the Swoosh.. BUT some there are too arrogant to believe it can happen.

Boy Oh Boy... lololol Will some be surprised.

Dont be fooled if some folks in some towns get pegged to be on Camera soon talking about their Highs and Lows with the Lebron Line.. Even I admit.. there have been good moments..

But...

Shhhhh.. dont tell anyone what I wrote.

King..Jay that is.....what do you think?

Originally Posted by KingJay718

I can't see dude jumpin' to another brand. Though he doesn't strike me as a hardcore Nike fan at heart.

O RLY?

Originally Posted by KingJay718

But damn, let's say he does jump to UA or wherever. The company will be on his twig and berries hard body, so he'l l be given the keys to the car, thus him and his crew will be allowed to do whatever in terms of marketing etc.

ok ok..BUT...then another respectable Opinion...

Originally Posted by si3n4

The keys to the car are fine and all, but it doesn't mean success. Look what happened to KG when he left Nike for And1. I don't think that worked out all too well. I know he's a big man and all, but his shoes sold better than most big man shoes when he was with Nike...

-S

and then my man...

Originally Posted by vocaldigital23

I personally don't think UA can compete with nike for the kind of Cash LBJ is expecting. Don't see it happening. But if it does, they are gonna have to step up their hoops designs BIG TIME.

Everyone keeping up?

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Originally Posted by wmg23

If Lebron decided to switch up brands, and end his relationship with Nike, what happens to his L23 logo???? Does he keep it cuz isnt it nikes copyrighted property?? Wonder what a Lebron UA logo would look like or a 3 stripe Lebron Logo.... hmmm

That logo isn't even great to start... thats an easy drop and move to the next sir.

There's PLENTY of Options for a NEW Lebron Logo...

I personally don't think UA can compete with nike for the kind of Cash LBJ is expecting. Don't see it happening. But if it does, they are gonna have to step up their hoops designs BIG TIME.

Vocal.. this is the point I make.

There is room for that But.. .AND yes.. Design and those within it have to change or get off the pot and let someone else sit down.

I also am not of the thought or insight that Bron is looking for the Big Payday.. as opposed to making a difference with the brand he is with and growing WITH that Brand.. not just being another Cog in the Machine.

I do think Know folks are sleeping over there in JR and NR assuming its going to be an easy pull. Imagine he wins the Chip AND wants to dip...

Oh me Oh my...

And then tokes comin in with the Fresh opinion.....

Originally Posted by tokes99


interesting thoughts, while no doubt if LBJ were to bounce to UA it would definitely a topic for discussion; it would not be nearly a as big a deal people seem to think it would be...it has already been noted that the LBJ line has not been the "success it could/should have been" on nike, perhaps the best marketing company on the planet, are things going to be all that different on UA (no doubt they are up & coming but they aren't seeing the swoosh in terms of marketing, say what you will about flywire/lunar /foam/the hyperdunk but what they most definitely). there's definitely complacency, but i hesitate to put it all on nike/sneaker industry, consumers take some of the rap too...

it is becoming more apparent that while individuals are still key selling tools, the era of the signature athlete a.ka. the jordan model (at least in the states) is closing; combine that with basketball as as sport has somewhat reached maturity (in the states) as well as the increasing tendency for people buying hoops kicks as strictly for ball exclusively then throw in the retro movement (not to mention that we all know if a shoe is a general release we can likely just wait until it gets discounted to cop--which is the very definition of complacency) and you had the recipe for a less than stellar showing when it comes to bball shoes in general. think of all the shoes that people dote over now that were absolutely slept on (by the general public who were all buying retros) when they 1st dropped (i won't name names for many were overlooked...)

i don't know that it would be in UA's best interest to get at LBJ, it be a grip of $$$; it'd definitely be interesting to see, would people stuck with the brand or the individual? so far the track record hasn't been too good, though not quite the same circumstances...

Then this Know it all dude speaks up again...

Originally Posted by RockDeep

tokes... good points on your part...but everyone keeps speaking on how much money it would take to get him. Thats something I think many are over thinking. I REALLY wish I could speak on this more, but I have learned my lesson KNOWING who reads this and tipping hands.....

There is ALOT that HAS been said with good points... and counter points... but you have to think outside the box when it comes to Brons future and his possible options.

Trust me. Its not all so clear cut...

Trust me... I LOVE the SWOOSH... but not so much to think they can lose at one point or another.

Ive said this before and you will see it again. Arrogance will blind those who assume at the Swoosh.

And of course BURNS.. My new main man... My Appa Scrappa.. my ACE BOON isnt to be denied...

Burns1923 wrote:

---

Good points raised.

Speaking to those points, you mentioned Nike's top tier marketing which, it's true, no other company has. However, even with their marketing resources to promote perhaps the best player in the world (arguably LBJ), LeBron's shoe line has still been lackluster overall.

That's a big reason why LeBron going to UA is not unrealistic.

From UA's standpoint: They get the biggest athlete in the world to represent their relatively fledgling brand. Instant worldwide exposure/interest. As far as what they pay him, I'm willing to venture a guess that LeBron would not hamstring UA financially by expecting a Nike-like contract. (Chances are that if he's willing to go to UA, he's not preoccupied with the money in the first place.) UA does this deal because it's LeBron James, it instantly bolsters the entire company in virtually every way, and the company instantly becomes a serious player in the industry. Let's not forget the other athletes from basketball and other sports that LeBron can draw to UA (enormous potential). Also, what UA may lack in Nike's marketing savvy they exponentially make up for with A) a groundswell of buzz about LBJ in a new shoe with a new company and B) LeBron himself being the face of an entire company, not just a premier athlete in a stable of great athletes as he is now with Nike.

From LBJ's standpoint: He gets to start fresh with an entirely new approach, with a company single-mindedly devoted to designing for him and promoting him. The name "Under Armour" actually lends itself to the powerful, dominant image of LeBron the basketball player. A 6'8'', 250 lb. physical freak and the iron-like imagery of the name "Under Armour" just works right out of the box. He becomes the company in this regard; LBJ is UA and UA is LBJ. This symbiotic relationship is far beyond what Nike can offer or ever create in a marketing campaign. Rather than have Zoom, double-stacked Zoom, etc. in every shoe from here on out, UA can develop technology around LBJ's requirements and preferences. Also, LeBron's shoes are in a downward track. LBJ V and VI were Strikes 1 and 2, and VII is shaping up to be Strike-3-and-you're-out. What reason does LeBron have to believe his line will ever rebound from these disappointments (forget having a Jordanesque line)? LeBron has also reached a point where he's dominating the NBA as arguably the best player in the world. His recognition alone takes care of exposure concerns. He really has nothing to lose by going to UA. What does he do? Stay safe with Nike, who is designing him out of the sneaker industry and his line into irrelevance/obscurity, and where success is less assured each year, or jump to UA where something not only truly new can be built for him but also for the industry itself, and where his status covers any potential downside anyway?

This situation is reminiscent of MJ and Nike back in '84. Dynamic athlete. Company that is willing to put itself behind that athlete. It's a chance, for sure. But when there's an opportunity to do something like this, athletes and companies cannot afford to play it safe. Both LeBron and Under Armour are at the place and time to jump into this together. LeBron needs UA's maverick approach (something not even Nike can offer him), and UA needs arguably the best athlete in the world to skyrocket their entire company both short term and long term.

Besides money and "safety", I don't see what keeps LeBron at Nike at this point.
All of a sudden.. Greg joins the party and says... what a minute... I got something to say....

Originally Posted by kaczalas

You are forgetting about one thing... you focused on the marketing, money and the freedom that comes with signing with an unknown (basketball-wise) brand... but there's one more VERY IMPORTANT aspect. If I were LeBron I would ask myself can UA give me a good performing shoe?! You talk about V and VI being strikes 1 and 2 and VII (before seeing the output) is 3. But actually those are GREAT kicks. ZLV is IMHO the best all-around Zoom LeBron sneaker thus far. I still don't think there's anything with better traction out there. LeBron seemed to enjoy The Six too as he's been jumping right out of the gym this season. Also, no injuries... nothing! VII... well we haven't even seen it yet... but my sources claim it to be a performance beast as well. Looks are boring (based on one blurry pic)... I wil give you that... but let's wait a while before we judge it. So being used to the best kicks on the market and the unmatchable Zoom Air technology (... and more) I would be really AFRAID (yes that's the right word) that signing with UA would result in a big downgrade. Let's face it... he's the best player in the NBA... he needs good shoes to play 100 games a year... and it takes time to develop technology that would match with Nike's best stuff. I would be also worried about injuries and such, so I would really think twice. It's no secret LeBron wants to earn money, but there's more to it.
Nike can't afford to lose the face of the brand... and neither can LeBron. That's my take.

LeBron James is my idol... true. But that's not the only reason why I buy his shoes. The most important thing for me is basketball performance and if his UA kicks would be bad for balling I WOULD REFUSE to buy them. End of story. I would focus on Zoom BB 3,4,5 or whatever else from Nike's top shelf instead.

Of course everytime BURNS speaks.. he makes me want to spill my guts

But I try to hold back..... a little..

Originally Posted by RockDeep

I want SOOOO Badly to be able to expound on this subject. My Fin fingers are BURNING to type some +@$... But THEY are watching and I wont be giving them a LICK to grab from when it comes to this topic. Kharma starts soon.


BUT I will say this.

To Gregs point about Performance. UA not having the Nike R&D Machine behind them FORCES UA to be creative in what they DO have. Have they had to do this to this point? Not at all. They have only wanted a Foothold IN the industry. However do you think they would cut corners on Design and Technology concepts if Lebron stepped to the table?

Negative Ghostrider.

Speaking to the point of Lebrons line compared to any other line. Jordans line had design elements that were original and remained original to HIS line. Brons line takes elements from other elements of Nike's line. When you read Cement or Element or Air.. you think Jordan.

When you read Zoom you think of several shoes within Nikes line.. Not just Lebron. Heck even Kobe is taking on the Lunar Foam as his own...(unfortunately)

As for the success of Brons line in terms of Marketing OR Retail.... You have to ask Nike what they deem as success.....

I can't help it but I will touch on this...lol... I know Im crazy.. but them reading this wont help them at all...

Does Nike consider a shoe sold in certain cities at a limited number in special colorways as a Lifestyle shoe a success? OR do they consider kids in Akron not even having Brons on the Outside Courts or gyms a success?

Does Nike consider it a success having kids just want Brons SIG Shoe more for Collection purposes and his Team shoe more for on Court wear?

Well if I were them... I wouldn't. I wish I could say more... but they need not see what is building on the other coast... Brons presentation won't see Click Clack...I can tell you that much.... lol

Then... The Ru... The Man himself from Cleveland.. THe dude who has seen every limited AND GR Lebron put out.... has something to say about thisand some other stuff..

Originally Posted by RUDOLPH1996

Greg- these are all personal opinions of the shoes based on your personal use. Bron is a Middle Linebacker playing on a hardwood; tremendous impact and wear on his knees. His "jumping" out the gym is not a complete tribute to the VI as much as it was his age ( not in his prime 24....Bron at 30 in these shoes would not be jumping out the gym), new conditioning coach working double time on strength & agility drills

Plus, his year round commitment to the Olympic Squad under Coach K is a BIG factor ( notice the improvement of Bosh, Wade, Melo, D. Williams and Kobe's game this year). No shoe did that....

I can clearly recall Bron slipping and twisting his ankles in the III's, IV's and 20.5.5 yet those are some of his most sucessful commercially shoes to date.

Unless u are Bron's HT/WT... u cannot make these general assumptions because Nike is the commericial standard. UA may or may not have something in store for Bron... but if they do, and he goes, there will be people lining to see if it is a worthwhile venture... 57% of the consumers of Nike apparel are not world-class athletes.........

I know one thing.... Bron wearing UA gear would be on point..... Nike has NOTHING ON THEIR GEAR... period. I love Nike shoes but their performance gear is lacking.....

vocaldigital23 wrote:

---

Nothing could be better for this industry than Bron going to UA. I hope it happens. GREAT points for both sides by everybody. And Rock- FEELING that point about the kids in Akron. UA has some killer ammo.
and here we are..... as Vocal got the last word in that thread....we continue....

EDIT:

I was wrong.. Tokes had something to add..

Originally Posted by tokes99

i only mention the money because LBJ has been very explicit about his desire to build himself as a brand & be the first billionaire athlete...the more i think about it, i could definitely see it happening, mostly because it falls in line with LBJ's goal to be a standalone icon...i do think that the brand most likely to do that for him is the one he is currently with...just do not see UA with LBJ changing the game, i kinda think people will wild out for that 1st shoe, anticipate the 2nd, and be indifferent on the 3rd. i just wonder if UA is really going to want to go in like that...
i'm with vocal, i want this to happen...just to see how things would play out

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Does Nike consider a shoe sold in certain cities at a limited number in special colorways as a Lifestyle shoe a success? OR do they consider kids in Akron not even having Brons on the Outside Courts or gyms a success?

therein lies the rub, what's the metric for success; make a performance shoe that caters to people that ACTUALLY PLAY BASKETBALL and hope they go out & cop at retail, or go with a "more mainstream" approach & make a shoe with casual appeal that can get those who might otherwise not be interested. remember that basketball as a category is fairly mature-meaning it is not really growing (at least in the states), so which way do you go? especially being that you're nike & have basketball footwear on smash (counting nike/brand jordan as 1)?

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Does Nike consider it a success having kids just want Brons SIG Shoe more for Collection purposes and his Team shoe more for on Court wear?

I'm glad you mentioned this, because i've been thinkin' one this for a while...is this a recognition of the burgeoning sneaker culture (sneaker trading, exhibitions, etc.,)---hence all the exclusives for the sig or is it a legitimate attempt to expand the LBJ line?
i'm pretty excited to see the viis in more detail, they look pretty slick

 

[theprocessofbelief]

Does UA have the resources to offer Lebron a contract that is respectable?

 

[rockdeep]

^^
Process.. when you say Resources... do you mean Cash on Hand or Stock Options or Both or a Package with a stake in what his line makes?

To any of those.. I'd assume yes.. but Id be worried less about what they can offer in terms of money and more in what they can offer in terms of MarketingHIM and producing a winning design time and again.

 

[mjrm2384]

Does his current contract expire at the end of 09?

 

[e3lal]

Can't see or imagine him leaving Nike, but that's just my opinion.

 

[the12the22the32the4]

^See, I would argue that UA does not have the resources necessary to make it worth Lebron's while.

In 2007 UA had net income of 52.5 million, and in 2008 it was only 38.2 million. UA currently has a market cap just below 1 billion (987 million).
In 2007 Nike had net income of 1.49 BILLION and in 2008 it increased to 1.88 BILLION. Nike currently has a market cap of 26.5 billion. (Thank you GoogleFinance).

Long story short, UA is worth less than 1/26 of Nike on the open market. I think it's fair to argue that over the life of the "investment" inLebron James, that Lebron would be worth more than $1 billion to Nike when it's all said and done. That said, if Lebron was seriously considering jumpingto UA, I think there's an excellent chance Nike's shareholders would say to themselves "We can't let that happen, let's throw a 60/70%premium at UA and just buy them outright". Sure, it would be a tremendous short term hit up to $1.75 billion dollars (the Converse deal only cost them$305 million in 2003, the equivalent of of about $360 million in today's dollars), and probably another $100 million or so to Lebron himself, but that$1.85-$2 billion expenditure to lock up the biggest athlete in the world, as well as an industry innovator that will provide returns beyond just keeping LebronJames, would be well worth it to Nike.

When push comes to shove, I just can't see Nike letting Lebron get away - I don't say that because of "arrogance for Nike" but simply thatwhen faced with losing him to a competitor, Nike has the resources to just eliminate that competitor and thus eliminate an avenue of escape for Lebron. With UAgone, there would only be Adidas/Reebok (who is currently struggling more than they'd like to admit financially) and the other small brands like Pony,Puma, Peak, etc. who would not be attractive to Lebron financially.

If it came to that scenario, Lebron's best option would probably be to go the Al Harrington route and try to start his own line. If he did that he couldsell $50 shoes at Wal-Mart, the world's biggest retailer, sell more volume, and keep more of the profits. But, even that's a long shot without otherinvestors, and thus splitting of the profits, so I just don't see a scenario where Lebron truly has a better long term deal than with Nike.

All the design and logo hypotheticals are nice, but when it gets right down to it, money talks and Nike can offer the most of anyone, as well as the largestworldwide opportunities. Michael Jordan and Nike succeeded because they were a partnership - Lebron James is no different; he needs that partnership as well.

 

[xbiker47]

Originally Posted by E3LAL

Can't see or imagine him leaving Nike, but that's just my opinion.

same way I feel too

 

[rudolph1996]

Originally Posted by the12the22the32the4

^See, I would argue that UA does not have the resources necessary to make it worth Lebron's while.

In 2007 UA had net income of 52.5 million, and in 2008 it was only 38.2 million. UA currently has a market cap just below 1 billion (987 million).
In 2007 Nike had net income of 1.49 BILLION and in 2008 it increased to 1.88 BILLION. Nike currently has a market cap of 26.5 billion. (Thank you Google Finance).

Long story short, UA is worth less than 1/26 of Nike on the open market. I think it's fair to argue that over the life of the "investment" in Lebron James, that Lebron would be worth more than $1 billion to Nike when it's all said and done. That said, if Lebron was seriously considering jumping to UA, I think there's an excellent chance Nike's shareholders would say to themselves "We can't let that happen, let's throw a 60/70% premium at UA and just buy them outright". Sure, it would be a tremendous short term hit up to $1.75 billion dollars (the Converse deal only cost them $305 million in 2003, the equivalent of of about $360 million in today's dollars), and probably another $100 million or so to Lebron himself, but that $1.85-$2 billion expenditure to lock up the biggest athlete in the world, as well as an industry innovator that will provide returns beyond just keeping Lebron James, would be well worth it to Nike.

When push comes to shove, I just can't see Nike letting Lebron get away - I don't say that because of "arrogance for Nike" but simply that when faced with losing him to a competitor, Nike has the resources to just eliminate that competitor and thus eliminate an avenue of escape for Lebron. With UA gone, there would only be Adidas/Reebok (who is currently struggling more than they'd like to admit financially) and the other small brands like Pony, Puma, Peak, etc. who would not be attractive to Lebron financially.

If it came to that scenario, Lebron's best option would probably be to go the Al Harrington route and try to start his own line. If he did that he could sell $50 shoes at Wal-Mart, the world's biggest retailer, sell more volume, and keep more of the profits. But, even that's a long shot without other investors, and thus splitting of the profits, so I just don't see a scenario where Lebron truly has a better long term deal than with Nike.

All the design and logo hypotheticals are nice, but when it gets right down to it, money talks and Nike can offer the most of anyone, as well as the largest worldwide opportunities. Michael Jordan and Nike succeeded because they were a partnership - Lebron James is no different; he needs that partnership as well.

This is great stats.... But Bron DID pull the wildcard when he got rid of E.Goodwin and put on the Horseman as his reps. What if UA offered Bron a stake inownership in the brand? hmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[rockdeep]

the12the22the32the4 those are some great stats and opinions on the matter. I must say.. (by the way do you have to type in that long ***$ name in everytime?lol)

Again.. I am with Ru... just when you think Nike is the only show in town.. the one Stat you didn't list is Profit for each company. The KEY word you usedwas Partnership. Jordan and Nike weren't a Partnership in the truest since of the word in the beginning.

Jordan took a chance on them and they took a chance on him.

Lebron could be a TRUE partner with a new Brand. Nike can not offer that. They can only offer him money to be one of many when its all said and done. To meMarket Cap and such dont mean much when the entire FOotwear Market and Basketball specifically is the way it is.

You have to offer more than cash at this point. What good is money if the Product isn't what we all thought it could be year to year. I think the VII willbe an improvement.. but with Product comes Consumer Access...

But I am saying too much.

But again.. I appreciated that response. It adds a completely different outlook.

 

[the12the22the32the4]

Rock/Ru:

First, 1234 works too, saves time

.

Second, short answer on profit in 2008:

Nike: 8.39 BILLION
UA: 355 MILLION

However, to me looking at profit over net income is like looking at price per share over market cap - the latters are a much more indicative measure of valueon the open market, and is thus the better measurement device in this discussion.

But, Ru, consider this - to match a $10 million/year contract from Nike, Lebron would have to get about a 3% ownership stake in UA - and that ASSUMES that UAcontinues to grow and profit at the same rate as it has the past two years and that there is no vested option to compound his ownership at a pre-determinedrate - thereafter he would have to BUY more of a stake in the company to increase his ownership presence. Lebron would potentially have to PAY UA to increasehis own ability to share in the profits. Would you take that gamble with the economy right now? I wouldn't - I'd take the $10 million and bonuses andplay in ugly shoes

.

Also, you mentioned the horsemen - I personally feel that's Lebron's greatest business downfall. If I'm UA and I know that one of them is coming tonegotiate with me and not Goodwin, there's NO WAY I'm offering anything near what I would have offered Goodwin initially.

Rock, I think you may have miscontrued where I was going with market cap - that was simply to show how relatively "easy" it would be for Nike to buyUA - it's the proverbial drop in the bucket for them. Also, you mentioned MJ and Nike weren't partners in the beginning, but it evolved into that afterMJ more or less "saw the light". I think Lebron will see that same light if he's willing to look hard at the true landscape - he's just notgoing to be able to capture the same magic that MJ did in the more fragmented marketplace of today with UA or anyone other than Nike. That's not a knock onLebron by any means, but there are more factors in play today than in the late 80's to mid 90's.

As you said, consumer access - no one can offer more than Nike right now, they know it, UA knows it, Lebron knows it. If they even get a whiff of it slipping,I think they pull the trigger and take UA over. Let's not forget that at one time, Reebok was the undisputed king of athletic footwear and they could havebought out Nike, but didn't view them as a legitimate threat and underestimated the opportunity that Michael Jordan posed to the entire athletic apparelindustry. Nike won't make that same mistake with UA, or with Lebron James.

 

[zach13g]

I really hate to sway the discussion on Bron leaving Nike, but I read that UA shares are really low right now only like $18 and Nike is basically
drooling.

the article I read said that if Nike were to offer the large private share holders a high premium at the current state of the economy it would be nearlyimpossible for them to decline, and that the CEO of UA wouldn't have enough votes to be able to stop Nike from taking over.

It also said that if Nike were ever to make a move on UA this would be the best time to it.

 

[rockdeep]

I saw this same Article. Trust that Kevin is doing EVERYTHING he can to not let it happen.

1234 Again Valid arguments and apparently you are one smart mutha.. cause you are right on the assumption of UA having to offer Bron a stake like that in thecompany... HOWEVA... lol

I wouldn't put it past Lebron to do such. Or UA if they get past a takeover by Nike. I'd hate to see it. Nike take over UA that is....... but thingsare cooking all the way around. People are just seeing how things are playing out. Literally.

 

[lobotomybeats]

If 2010 comes and Nike is really fearful of LeBron entertaining other offers, what keeps Nike from offering a Jordan Brand-like situation?

 

[rockdeep]

Lobo...

do you know how much money Jordan Brand brings in? JUST Jordan Brand. Not Nike Basketball.

They cut him a PHAT check every year based off sales. Bron has to be able to bring in the type of money to Nike for Nike to offer that. They are FAR from thatmy man. Jordan puts out ALOT of Product... and can afford all the misses they have.

Nike can't afford for Bron to have that many misses. Retailers aint going for that. Jordan basically bends retailers over when it comes to deciding whogets an account and what product the retailer MUST buy in order to get the "good" stuff.

 

[astroox805]

i feel that lebron should shop around. his nike kicks werent at all appealing(my opinion), comfort wise-they were cool but thats about it. i think that hemight be a better fit with maybe adidas, being that he might be able to up the bar for them and they have the loot to offer him...nike needs to give lebronsome of that cuttin edge technology like kobe is getting..it will be interesting to see how things pan out. only time will tell

 

[jordanhead2]

Pics of the VII leaked?

 

[bp the owner]

 

[burns1923]

at the topic summary, Rock. Very artful. Appreciated.

To the point up top about Nike having the most money to offer... valid point, but what if Reebok had the most money to offer?

I mean obviously people would be loving their designs if that were the case but I just don't think it comes down to money. Not this time around.

It's been so interesting reading the perspectives on this, and it's kinda funny how most of the points make sense; you could see each side playing out.

I think the pertinent question Nike, LeBron, and shoe buyers should be asking themselves right now is:

"Is the LeBron James signature line exciting?"

I can't imagine most people answering "yes."

UA is primed. If the vision can be put together, the door's open. I just know it.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by RockDeep

Lobo...

do you know how much money Jordan Brand brings in? JUST Jordan Brand. Not Nike Basketball.

They cut him a PHAT check every year based off sales. Bron has to be able to bring in the type of money to Nike for Nike to offer that. They are FAR from that my man. Jordan puts out ALOT of Product... and can afford all the misses they have.

Nike can't afford for Bron to have that many misses. Retailers aint going for that. Jordan basically bends retailers over when it comes to deciding who gets an account and what product the retailer MUST buy in order to get the "good" stuff.

Thanks Rock. That is why I asked.

 

[tokes99]

no question LBJ has options, just depends where his mind is in 2010...the12the22the32the4: GREAT info there! i arrived at your conclusion through differentmeasures, i think when nike is doing their thing they raise the profile for all brands...

Originally Posted by the12the22the32the4

^Also, you mentioned MJ and Nike weren't partners in the beginning, but it evolved into that after MJ more or less "saw the light". I think Lebron will see that same light if he's willing to look hard at the true landscape - he's just not going to be able to capture the same magic that MJ did in the more fragmented marketplace of today with UA or anyone other than Nike. That's not a knock on Lebron by any means, but there are more factors in play today than in the late 80's to mid 90's.

dope point!!! been sayin' this for the longest, its a different world not only are there more choices but with 24/7 sports coverage & the internet;people don't seem to look at athletes in quite the same way. especially in hoops where for the longest, it seemed like everyone was trying to recreate thejordan model...not that sig shoes are done or should go away, just that it will never be quite like it was. to my mind the reason people rate the LBJ line as"not being what it could/should have been" (beside people just being overly critical) is because hoops was coming down off of the high of the 90s andhoops shoes were ubiquitous; by comparison recent times do not seem as impactful in our minds...

Originally Posted by the12the22the32the4

^If it came to that scenario, Lebron's best option would probably be to go the Al Harrington route and try to start his own line. If he did that he could sell $50 shoes at Wal-Mart, the world's biggest retailer, sell more volume, and keep more of the profits. But, even that's a long shot without other investors, and thus splitting of the profits, so I just don't see a scenario where Lebron truly has a better long term deal than with Nike.

if this were to happen, does anyone really think that many people would adopt/follow/switch to LBJ's independent venture?

 

[the game is a foot]

I adore this thread...


Numbers and statistics aside, in my layman's opinion Lebron NEEDS to stay with Nike.


The earlier argument about whether Nike considers limited lifestyle inspired shoes selling out in small numbers over a sell through of a GR performance shoe,in today's world I believe going the Lifestyle route is and will be the most successful route going into the future.

If Lebron were to leave Nike and go to a strictly performance based company like UA, even with a stake of ownership in the company it doesn't make sense inmy opinion. With UA Lebron would be the AL BUNDY ("I sell women's shoes") of basketball performance footwear.

With Nike Lebron would be selling more than just bball sneakers, he can eventually sell a LIFESTYLE which would be way more lucrative. That is what BrandJordan has been doing successfully (maybe not in the minds of bball enthusiasts and NT'ers over the age of 30) for the past decade.

The only way I see Lebron going the UA route is if he honestly thinks he can beat Nike in a chess match (signing and buying into the UA company knowing thatNike would buy them out, thus earning even more money for him and becoming a true partnership with Nike). And we all know in chess a pawn can become a queen tohelp in the success of the KING and his castle. But the HORSEMEN always takes an "L".

 

[redsfan3]

Originally Posted by E3LAL

Can't see or imagine him leaving Nike, but that's just my opinion.

 

[arff23]

So I guess UA is really the only option in the game?...
Not Peak...Adidas or anyone else?..


Part of me says..Lebron will stick with Nike, because of legacy and loyalty..another says UA because of money and business...


Honestly...I think it will be exactly the same and be mirror image of his contract in the NBA...He switches teams, he switches brands...He stays loyal, hestays loyal...

 

[rockdeep]

Originally Posted by The Game is a Foot

I adore this thread...


Numbers and statistics aside, in my layman's opinion Lebron NEEDS to stay with Nike.


The earlier argument about whether Nike considers limited lifestyle inspired shoes selling out in small numbers over a sell through of a GR performance shoe, in today's world I believe going the Lifestyle route is and will be the most successful route going into the future.

If Lebron were to leave Nike and go to a strictly performance based company like UA, even with a stake of ownership in the company it doesn't make sense in my opinion. With UA Lebron would be the AL BUNDY ("I sell women's shoes") of basketball performance footwear.

With Nike Lebron would be selling more than just bball sneakers, he can eventually sell a LIFESTYLE which would be way more lucrative. That is what Brand Jordan has been doing successfully (maybe not in the minds of bball enthusiasts and NT'ers over the age of 30) for the past decade.

The only way I see Lebron going the UA route is if he honestly thinks he can beat Nike in a chess match (signing and buying into the UA company knowing that Nike would buy them out, thus earning even more money for him and becoming a true partnership with Nike). And we all know in chess a pawn can become a queen to help in the success of the KING and his castle. But the HORSEMEN always takes an "L".

That made me giggle and I dont know why.

I agree Lebron can sell more than just a shoe but a Lifestyle, but some folks have made the assumption that Nike can reach more people than any other FootwearCompany.... huh? Sign up for an account and ya get one says others who want to get in.

I dont think UA or Adi or Puma for that matter would say NO to anyone wanting to order if they are trying to Bolster sales.

Does Lebron LOSE if UA gave him a stake and Nike DIDN"T buy it? No.. I dont think. He actually is vested in his own product... and shares ineverything.. Meaning.. if UA gets the NFL contract... Lebron gets some of that...UA gets into another segment and it takes off... Yup... Bron gets some ofthat...

Again. ..just assumptions on my part.... def. not concrete.....

 

[rockdeep]

Hey Arff.. I dont think UA is the only option by any means... I think BURNS comments coupled with some others lead things down the UA path, but I am more thanopen to hearing what others think about everyone else in the game having a crack at Lebron.

I also think Lebron is loyal to his Legacy. Why stay Loyal to a shoe brand if they lack the commitment to him by giving him his own dedicated folks to work onhis line?

Isn't it odd to think a HUGE player such as Nike doesn't have a dedicated TEAM of people for JUST him with Bron being the "Face" of NikeBasketball? I wouldn't have believed it unless I "Witnessed" it for myself. Sure he see's his lead designer for his line and his SportsMarketing person... but its not a dedicated Team.

I think Adidas, Puma and the like would quickly assemble a TEAM to work feverishly to make sure Bron was the Focus of their Brand if they invested so muchmoney. Dont you?

Something to think about. I know it baffles me.