Where will Big Yungin be in 2010... Does he in fact have Options???

Start Rant/

Lebron should be pissed at the way his "line" is being handled. Nikebasically said F it and decided to release a billion colors of each shoe thinking this is one way to temporarily appease people into thinking Lebron shoes arethat of a deal. Over saturation of the market is what Nike is doing right now. I mean seriously NY cab VI, La VI, birthday LBs,etc, only makes consumers loseinterest, get jealous of the limited retail outlets for these LE colors, and simply devalues the Lebron Line. When the shoe is not even released yet and youcan guarantee a business first class seat on that $79-$109 shelf in the outlet you know you have problems. Every single Lebron Sig has made it to the outletbash. Two things can be said with this outlet talk. A) You can release a unique design that also is a good hoops shoe but at the same time heavy marketing isneeded. B) Release run of the mill, slapped sig logo on it, little marketing.

One conclusion Nike handling of superstar product lines is terrible i.e. IsaiahThomas level.



Start rant of recent Nike Sig Shoes:

Vince Carter- my god how amazing the line was from 1 to 3. 4-5 don't even count.From 1-3 you could see Nike work its magic. 4-5 was garbage, like let's forget that we are not the only brand being featured on that FL wall of shoes. Whena sig shoe blends in on that wall, stripping the classification of signature is only fitting. VC is forgotten, ya'll remember the Dr funk ads, VC clothingline that seem ghost after one showing in the eastbay catalog, Team Rayguns, the marketing was there just the player abilities and stardom were fading soonerthan expected. This was not Nike's fault, maybe only releasing that garbage 4&5 they called sig shoes.



Kobe Bryant- Kobe 1 was okay, simple but boring. Adidas The Kobe on the other handwas pure sex. Kobe 2 was a little better. Kobe 3 unique, but like someone said before the H2k4 should get some royalty checks. Kobe 4 come on the only thingunique about this product was that it was a low. Looking like H2k4 donning 2008 wardrobe. I don't know how long Nike can keep Kobe's line"unique", b/c I already envision by Kobe 6, the design will just not be there. And one thing can be said about Kobe's Line atrociousmarketing.



/End rant.



Nike as a company needs one jolt boosting invigorating slap in the face effect:Competition. Nike right now would be churning out better shoes, better marketing efforts, and sense of that Nike magic if only there was a company out theremaking them sweat. Nike is at the point where creativity is locked away because they see that there is no need to put that much effort knowing that therereally is no other competing company.



I believe if Lebron does bolt to UA that would be best thing to happen to Nikebecause A) they would realize that they are not invincible B) effort is once again in product offerings C) competition D) learned a lesson in that athleteslike Lebron need to be handled differently.



Lebron's line IMO was a failure. Some bright spots are there, but overall one bigdisappointment. You know damn well Nike realizes how big of an expectation for performance was sorely overestimated. Lebron should just thank Nike for what itdid, but starting anew as the face of company surely is the competitive advantage UA has over Nike when that time comes.



With the image UA is portraying, grabbing Lebron would be fitting. Performanceapparel, NCAA sponsoring, new running shoe line, etc. its endless potential for a young company if done correctly.



UA has no problem changing its stance with Brandon Jennings since they kind of gavehim that idea of him being the face of UA's new basketball line. I'm sure UA would accommodate Lebron with the quickness.



/End installment rant.



The only loyalty I see in the shoe industry is AI. Even though he signed thatlifetime contract, you still have to give him props for what RBK is lately doing to his line.
 
Originally Posted by vcshoxj6

Nike as a company needs one jolt boosting invigorating slap in the face effect: Competition. Nike right now would be churning out better shoes, better marketing efforts, and sense of that Nike magic if only there was a company out there making them sweat. Nike is at the point where creativity is locked away because they see that there is no need to put that much effort knowing that there really is no other competing company.
I believe if Lebron does bolt to UA that would be best thing to happen to Nike because A) they would realize that they are not invincible B) effort is once again in product offerings C) competition D) learned a lesson in that athletes like Lebron need to be handled differently.

Lebron's line IMO was a failure. Some bright spots are there, but overall one big disappointment. You know damn well Nike realizes how big of an expectation for performance was sorely overestimated. Lebron should just thank Nike for what it did, but starting anew as the face of company surely is the competitive advantage UA has over Nike when that time comes.

With the image UA is portraying, grabbing Lebron would be fitting. Performance apparel, NCAA sponsoring, new running shoe line, etc. its endless potential for a young company if done correctly.

UA has no problem changing its stance with Brandon Jennings since they kind of gave him that idea of him being the face of UA's new basketball line. I'm sure UA would accommodate Lebron with the quickness.

/End installment rant.

The only loyalty I see in the shoe industry is AI. Even though he signed that lifetime contract, you still have to give him props for what RBK is lately doing to his line.


*Lock Thread*

No more to be said. This man BROKE IT DOWN.



pimp.gif
 
^^
Nahh... The other Brands section will just get alot of action is all.

Picture this...

The Nike section with crickets with only HoH posts and the Jordan forum goin back to where it used to be....
 
^ yeah.

I, personally, wouldn't want to see him go to UA because I don't think it would work.
In my mind, and probably a lot more people, UA is more of a football brand than basketball.

I know they're working on building the basketball side with Brandon Jennings and everything
and Lebron would be the biggest pull ever but I just can't see it competing with Nike even if
they land Lebon.

We shall see, though ..
 
Good thread, excellent points, nice stats. Of course he has options, other companies would be foolish tonot try to make a bid. This is open ended speculation and it can go on forever. My gut feeling is that Lebron will stay with Nike. As with everything,ultimately time will tell.
 
Ok I lied, I keep seeing references about the Zoom Lebron line not being successful (especially whenreferring to the V's and VI's). What are the metrics that are being used to make such an assessment? That's my question. Seems like a"hole-lotta" opinion being thrown around and no emperical evidence. There could be other external factors involved...for instance, this economy istough...worldwide...yes we are "sneakerheads" that will throw money at numerous pairs of shoes because that's what we do. To the averageconsumers a pair of kicks over $100 in these times when that could be used for more meaningful things is ludicrous.

As far as performance goes the Lebron line is amazing, but then again I suspect a lot of people that buy them never usethem for performance...it's all about the "neck-breaking" factor. Are Lebrons nice looking...for the most part, but are they dazzling..well savefor a few colorways, no. That's why I'm interested in hearing what are y'all implying about the line being dismal, or relativelyunsuccesful.

There is a fine line between being too forward and innovative, and being too staid. Make them too foward and envelopepushing then you lose the mainstream. Make them too homely and plain, then they are uninspiring. I don't know...maybe I'm just a babbling ****** but tome the VI straddled that line PERFECTLY.

I know this was all over the place, but it ties into the thread somehow, if not scatterbrained.
 
IMO I wouldnt want LeBron to leave the Swoosh, I hate the idea of a player switching brands multiple times (KG, C-Webb, etc.)
I think Nike's marketing can offer more for Bron than any other company, and I personally love "The LeBrons" it lets LeBron be LeBron. As far asDesign and Performance, like someone stated, the Performance of the line has been great for the last 2 years... as for the design, I personally didnt like theV but thought Nike made a comeback in terms of design with the VIs. At the end, is LeBron happy?! that is the most important question in my opinion. Is hehappy with the performance? I think he is. Is he happy with the design? I don't know... but if he isnt I think Nike is using the wrong team for the line. Imean look at Kanye's shoe, he had MAJOR input in its production, I mean HE designed it! But that's a lifestyle shoe and does not incorporateperformance (I actually dont know, just assuming, although they do look like they can take a beating from King James).. anyways the point was, Nike can offerLeBron more input in the design department, and then the performance department (I dont know if design and performance are 2 different departments, justassuming) can take over with their technologies and continue to deliver great performing shoes as we've seen lately.
 
Originally Posted by vcshoxj6


Start Rant/

Lebron should be pissed at the way his "line" is being handled. Nike basically said F it and decided to release a billion colors of each shoe thinking this is one way to temporarily appease people into thinking Lebron shoes are that of a deal. Over saturation of the market is what Nike is doing right now. I mean seriously NY cab VI, La VI, birthday LBs,etc, only makes consumers lose interest, get jealous of the limited retail outlets for these LE colors, and simply devalues the Lebron Line. When the shoe is not even released yet and you can guarantee a business first class seat on that $79-$109 shelf in the outlet you know you have problems. Every single Lebron Sig has made it to the outlet bash. Two things can be said with this outlet talk. A) You can release a unique design that also is a good hoops shoe but at the same time heavy marketing is needed. B) Release run of the mill, slapped sig logo on it, little marketing.

One conclusion Nike handling of superstar product lines is terrible i.e. Isaiah Thomas level.

Start rant of recent Nike Sig Shoes:

Vince Carter- my god how amazing the line was from 1 to 3. 4-5 don't even count. From 1-3 you could see Nike work its magic. 4-5 was garbage, like let's forget that we are not the only brand being featured on that FL wall of shoes. When a sig shoe blends in on that wall, stripping the classification of signature is only fitting. VC is forgotten, ya'll remember the Dr funk ads, VC clothing line that seem ghost after one showing in the eastbay catalog, Team Rayguns, the marketing was there just the player abilities and stardom were fading sooner than expected. This was not Nike's fault, maybe only releasing that garbage 4&5 they called sig shoes.

Kobe Bryant- Kobe 1 was okay, simple but boring. Adidas The Kobe on the other hand was pure sex. Kobe 2 was a little better. Kobe 3 unique, but like someone said before the H2k4 should get some royalty checks. Kobe 4 come on the only thing unique about this product was that it was a low. Looking like H2k4 donning 2008 wardrobe. I don't know how long Nike can keep Kobe's line "unique", b/c I already envision by Kobe 6, the design will just not be there. And one thing can be said about Kobe's Line atrocious marketing.

/End rant.

Nike as a company needs one jolt boosting invigorating slap in the face effect: Competition. Nike right now would be churning out better shoes, better marketing efforts, and sense of that Nike magic if only there was a company out there making them sweat. Nike is at the point where creativity is locked away because they see that there is no need to put that much effort knowing that there really is no other competing company.

I believe if Lebron does bolt to UA that would be best thing to happen to Nike because A) they would realize that they are not invincible B) effort is once again in product offerings C) competition D) learned a lesson in that athletes like Lebron need to be handled differently.

Lebron's line IMO was a failure. Some bright spots are there, but overall one big disappointment. You know damn well Nike realizes how big of an expectation for performance was sorely overestimated. Lebron should just thank Nike for what it did, but starting anew as the face of company surely is the competitive advantage UA has over Nike when that time comes.

With the image UA is portraying, grabbing Lebron would be fitting. Performance apparel, NCAA sponsoring, new running shoe line, etc. its endless potential for a young company if done correctly.

UA has no problem changing its stance with Brandon Jennings since they kind of gave him that idea of him being the face of UA's new basketball line. I'm sure UA would accommodate Lebron with the quickness.

/End installment rant.


i think it must be reiterated that, in the athletic footwear landscape hoops isn't the giant expanding market it once was, so just because a shoes hits theoutlets does not signal some failure on a company's part especially when considering sig shoes that run upwards of $125+, basketball doesn't have thatcache when it comes to general releases(unless that shoe has a jumpman on it! even moreso if it is a retro) in fact, it would likely be a challenge to name any$100+ hoops shoe (excluding jordans) that doesn't see the outlets at a discounted price...
i definitely agree that competition is sorely needed to reinvigorate basketball footwear & footwear in general, the reality is for nike, especially as itpertains to basketball, is that competition is jordan brand. i do not have the numbers but i think it goes jordan by a country mile, then nike, adidas adistant 3rd, and converse & reebok battling for 4th, not sure if and1 is still around...the problem isn't that there isn't competition, but thatconsumers don't really seem to see the competition as viable in a major way, maybe if UA snags LBJ it changes that dynamic, but i wouldn't count on itthough, because as bad as people are saying that nike has been doing with their b-ball line(s) there has not been a migration to other brands. quite theopposite; they've become even more dominant, to the point that retailers are practically BEGGING other brands to show up in a major way (no doubt theywould want to see this go down), so i believe it is going to take a change in the consumer mindset more than a change in scenery for LBJ to anotherbrand...check out the other brands section every performance bball shoe from the competitors is mostly lambasted, and those brands have superstar personaltiesright now, and you still see are ruminations about if said person is going to leave for nike/jordan or what if said person was with nike/jordan or just plainlythat nike/jordan just would do better...

and i can't for the life or me figure out, why people think LBJ's line is a failure...by which measure(s)?
Originally Posted by FPListheillest


At the end, is LeBron happy?! that is the most important question in my opinion. Is he happy with the performance? I think he is. Is he happy with the design? I don't know... .


+1
Originally Posted by vcshoxj6


The only loyalty I see in the shoe industry is AI. Even though he signed that lifetime contract, you still have to give him props for what RBK is lately doing to his line.


not sure what you mean? what is reebok doing to his line?
 
I dont think I'd ever use the word Failure, because not too many people here are privy to Nike's Goals vs. Actual Sales.

Also... what does Lebron See as a Failure or Success for his line vs what Nike Deems a Success for the line. I can tell you several AT the Swoosh in Highpositions dont see it as hitting its Maximum Potential and feel some have just gotten complacent.

Instead of having a Nike Basketball Marketing Meeting to Discuss the line, there should be one to Discuss strictly Lebron just like Kobe should have his own.Not run altogether like its been done.

Has Lebron The Lifestyle reached the Masses?
Who is buying Lebrons?
Are Lebrons even regarded as a High performance on Court Must Have?
Who is Lebrons Target Audience?
Does it match what Nike see's as Lebrons Target Audience?

When Lebron is done playing. Will his Shoe legacy be remembered and be as revered as MJs?

Theres alot more to be asked...

But I will put it this way.

Im from Maryland. If I want to be a Global Icon... I first want to dominate the Continent I am on. America.

I want kids from my own community and hood to be able to get the same kicks as those from the Burbs and well off hoods. I want those people who were able tobuy Jordans buy MY kicks. I want them to look like me. Sounds harsh.. but I want them to get that access.

I personally don't want a kid who watches BET from the Burbs and thinks its cool to wear my kicks make my kicks popular. I want them to ALSO be able to buymy kicks.

THEN... I want to be able to reach kids Globally. I want Matt's Kids in Asia to have Access... I want Gregs kids in Poland/Australia and way out Continentsto have access. I want to make them as equally accessible to everyone who can buy them.

Not just Chicago. Not just NYC... Not just LA... F that....I want Black, White, Asian , Middle Eastern and ALL OTHERS to buy my kicks.. not just the one'swho have connects and big money to spend cause they have parents who will give them whatever they want.

I then.. also want all those same kids saying.. "damn these are the Hotness AND Im gonna wear these ON Court AND Off Court" I want people dying toput them on and wear them on the court. If they become a Lifestyle Shoe.. so be it.. Let them Transcend the Court to off Court...

Just don't let them evolve to an ONLY off court shoe, so that I have to create a shell of itself to get people to buy it.

But thats just me.
 
Originally Posted by RockDeep


Who is buying Lebrons?
Are Lebrons even regarded as a High performance on Court Must Have?
Who is Lebrons Target Audience?
i'm glad you brought those questions up, I was doing some work for a local YMCA last week and I took a peek in the gym which was packed withpeople ballin and to my surprise out of the 30 or so people who I would say ages ranged from 15-25 I actually counted 13 people rockin Lebron's on thecourt that night. Yes I counted them because I was kind of surprised to see so many Lebron's, most were soldier 2's, a few VI's and a pairIII's.

maybe it's different in my area compared to elsewhere since I'm in Ohio but here at least Lebron shoes are getting some play on the courts.
 
Since this thread is so big on quoting I'll join in.


i think it must be reiterated that, in the athletic footwear landscape hoops isn't the giant expanding market it once was, so just because a shoes hits the outlets does not signal some failure on a company's part especially when considering sig shoes that run upwards of $125+, basketball doesn't have that cache when it comes to general releases(unless that shoe has a jumpman on it! even moreso if it is a retro) in fact, it would likely be a challenge to name any $100+ hoops shoe (excluding jordans) that doesn't see the outlets at a discounted price...
i definitely agree that competition is sorely needed to reinvigorate basketball footwear & footwear in general, the reality is for nike, especially as it pertains to basketball, is that competition is jordan brand. i do not have the numbers but i think it goes jordan by a country mile, then nike, adidas a distant 3rd, and converse & reebok battling for 4th, not sure if and1 is still around...the problem isn't that there isn't competition, but that consumers don't really seem to see the competition as viable in a major way, maybe if UA snags LBJ it changes that dynamic, but i wouldn't count on it though, because as bad as people are saying that nike has been doing with their b-ball line(s) there has not been a migration to other brands. quite the opposite; they've become even more dominant, to the point that retailers are practically BEGGING other brands to show up in a major way (no doubt they would want to see this go down), so i believe it is going to take a change in the consumer mindset more than a change in scenery for LBJ to another brand...check out the other brands section every performance bball shoe from the competitors is mostly lambasted, and those brands have superstar personalties right now, and you still see are ruminations about if said person is going to leave for nike/jordan or what if said person was with nike/jordan or just plainly that nike/jordan just would do better...

and i can't for the life or me figure out, why people think LBJ's line is a failure...by which measure(s)?
The question highlighted in Yellow is all I want to know. When someone in here canquantitatively/empirically answer that question then I'll continue...until then it's just opinion andheresay.
 
Hey Elder.. I think its all meant to be Opinion.. Nothing Fact.

You know.. thought provoking convo. if it were fact, this would be far more than a few pages already. I would have quoted Articles...

Stuff I mention as fact IS, but only to make certain points. Other things I call out as assumptions or as Will Ferrell would say.. Wonderment.
 
How is the situation any different for any of the other brands than when Bron was drafted they all could have given him the world but he still chose Nike.

It was rumored at the time he refused more money and better deals to sign with Nike so there must be a reason for this there must have been somthing thatpersuaded him over his other options and lets face it everybody wanted him and tried to get him.

Alot of people complain about his shoes but maybe Brons happy with his line and how its panned out I mean he has alot of input n say over his footwear workingwith the designer so hes getting wat he wants in a shoe just like Jordan im sure his latest shoe is his favourite because its the new one we all hate theJordan 2009s but to MJ there probably the best shoe theyve ever designed.

Everything is speculation right now from where hes gonna play and now with his Nike contract to I know hes unique but lets face it how many elite players havesigned with Nike and left for a better deal still in there prime I can only think of 3 and none of them have the selling power that Lebron does KG,Tim Duncanand Chris Webber.Webber left because of priceing issues and kids being shot for there sneaks,KG didnt get wat he wanted at Nike wich from wat I remember was aOBF line to accompany his shoes and Tim Duncan well I dont think he sold many shoes he had a few sig shoes that wernt great and the foamposites he rocked soldthemselves.

For me I think he stays in Cleveland and with Nike and itll be all much to do about nuthin I mean after all why go to another team somebody else built whenyouve dragged ya home town franchise back from the ashes and making them a contender for aslong as your there.

Peace
Scottie
 
And leave LM (Rock knows who I'm talking about)? That would be a tough one to swallow...

Unless we are talking about a "package deal"....LOL!

MaZe
 
Originally Posted by MaZeDOwNeR

And leave LM (Rock knows who I'm talking about)? That would be a tough one to swallow...

Unless we are talking about a "package deal"....LOL!

MaZe

wink.gif
It would be Maze... LM is the Wild Card in the entire deal I believe.

Get LM you have him....
 
Originally Posted by RockDeep

Hey Elder.. I think its all meant to be Opinion.. Nothing Fact.

You know.. thought provoking convo. if it were fact, this would be far more than a few pages already. I would have quoted Articles...

Stuff I mention as fact IS, but only to make certain points. Other things I call out as assumptions or as Will Ferrell would say.. Wonderment.
indifferent.gif
@ me. I guess I'm getting all emotional at the thought of LBJ leaving Nike. I went through this twicealready...first with Chris Webber (not to mention Michigan going over to Adidas), and then Garnett. Not sure my "heart" can take anotherbreakup.
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
laugh.gif
 
@RockDeep

LM leave Nike? He is the GOD there.

That is one hell of a Wild Card.

MaZe
 
He and HW....but he still didn't get that VP title he's due...

You don't think he can bring a boat load with him?
 
Just ask KG about all the misses he's had sice he left Nike.

Bar none, regardless of a shoe/apparel line being technically sound or absolute Glad-quality, Nike is one of the world's most visible symbols.

Nike is a marketing machine.

You think 90% of athletes, especially one's in the NBA, aren't truly aware of idiotic decissions that were made by the likes of KG, Duncan, DariusMiles, and a handful of others?

Expensive mistakes.

Money or not, exposure is and will be a factor.

Peace.
 
Originally Posted by RockDeep

He and HW....but he still didn't get that VP title he's due...

You don't think he can bring a boat load with him?
Of course.

All I'm saying is that if your boys from Maryland want to land Bron, they would need to land LM, and that package deal, would have to berestupidiculoustarded.

A lot of people have chimed in on this thread comparing the Nike and UA BRANDS. To me, that is only a small part of it. There would be a lot of PEOPLE(HEAVYWEIGHTS at that) involved in this situation. Not money, not marketing, not technology, hell, not even SNEAKERS.

I just can't see all of THAT going down at once.

MaZe
 
I agree... but most folks dont see nor here the stuff behind the "stuff".

The Pitch would need to be to LM on some level before it was to LRMR...lol... For real...
 
Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Since this thread is so big on quoting I'll join in.


i think it must be reiterated that, in the athletic footwear landscape hoops isn't the giant expanding market it once was, so just because a shoes hits the outlets does not signal some failure on a company's part especially when considering sig shoes that run upwards of $125+, basketball doesn't have that cache when it comes to general releases(unless that shoe has a jumpman on it! even moreso if it is a retro) in fact, it would likely be a challenge to name any $100+ hoops shoe (excluding jordans) that doesn't see the outlets at a discounted price...
i definitely agree that competition is sorely needed to reinvigorate basketball footwear & footwear in general, the reality is for nike, especially as it pertains to basketball, is that competition is jordan brand. i do not have the numbers but i think it goes jordan by a country mile, then nike, adidas a distant 3rd, and converse & reebok battling for 4th, not sure if and1 is still around...the problem isn't that there isn't competition, but that consumers don't really seem to see the competition as viable in a major way, maybe if UA snags LBJ it changes that dynamic, but i wouldn't count on it though, because as bad as people are saying that nike has been doing with their b-ball line(s) there has not been a migration to other brands. quite the opposite; they've become even more dominant, to the point that retailers are practically BEGGING other brands to show up in a major way (no doubt they would want to see this go down), so i believe it is going to take a change in the consumer mindset more than a change in scenery for LBJ to another brand...check out the other brands section every performance bball shoe from the competitors is mostly lambasted, and those brands have superstar personalties right now, and you still see are ruminations about if said person is going to leave for nike/jordan or what if said person was with nike/jordan or just plainly that nike/jordan just would do better...

and i can't for the life or me figure out, why people think LBJ's line is a failure...by which measure(s)?
The question highlighted in Yellow is all I want to know. When someone in here can quantitatively/empirically answer that question then I'll continue...until then it's just opinion and heresay.

Quantitative? Empirical? Sounds like a job for me!

Unfortunately, most of the info on that topic is kept under pretty tight security these days (I really miss the days when Steez had this info every quarter)but here is a link that shows the overall numbers from calendar year 2006, which for Lebron would have included the majority of the run of the ZLIII's, andthe first colorway of the ZLIV's. In my opinion, the calendar year is sort of an interesting way to break it down (I think Q3 to Q3 would be a betterfiscal year measure for basketball product) but, it does provide the same fair measure for everyone involved so I would assert that the stats are valid.

http://www.insidehoops.co...m/showthread.php?t=36302

Long story short, LBJ placed 27, 35, and 51 on the top 100.
Nike placed 91 shoes in the top 100 in total.
19 of the top 20 were Jordans.
All 20 of the top 20 were Nikes.

Again, this was in 2006 and Lebron had yet to take off as a marketing force so this list is admittedly a bit biased against him, but consider this - threeyears after Jordan's last launch of a shoe he actually wore on the court, three of MJ's XXI colorways outsold Lebron's best signature colorway inrevenue generated (2 of them by 150%) and two of them outsold Lebron's signature in units sold, in less or equal time (the launches were a few weeks aparton the different colorways for the Jordans) and Jordan had
23 different offerings that outsold Lebron's topsignature shoe (including a Show'm, a Laney, two team shoes, and a Dub Zero). The man that was anointed "King" had failed to crack the top 25 inthe entire industry after FOUR shoe launches and trailed Kevin Garnett in units sold by more than 40,000 pairs and $1.3 million in revenue.

Further, this article dated June 23, 2008 is illuminating:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25330766/site/14081545?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahoo

What's also interesting to take from that article is that Nike has a 93.5% share of the basketball shoe market, as of less than a year ago. Adidas has 4%,and the remaining 2.5% is presumably the Starbury/Puma/Peak/LiNing/Payless/etc.

Nike is the 153rd biggest company in America on the 2008 Fortune 500 list. They are the biggest apparel company by a mile; VFC with Lee, Wrangler, Majestic,Nautica, etc. is second at #335. Jordan shoes make up 67% of basketball shoe sales - Lebron is part of a Nike segment that along with Kobe and the other Nikebasketball guys accounts for only 24% (second link).

IF THAT ARTICLE IS ACCURATE (which, it's Rovell at CNBC so there's no reason it wouldn't be) Lebron, in collaboration with all theother Nike athletes, sells over 250% fewer shoes than Michael Jordan, Carmelo Anthony, and maybe Chris Paul combined (not sure if they includedPaul's first signature in that list yet - I would guess not since it had launched only a few months earlier, but that's strictly a guess). It's noteven that he's not doing it on his own, it's that he can't do it as a part of the entire Nike Basketball stable.

That is why people think Lebron's line is a failure.
 
Originally Posted by the12the22the32the4

Originally Posted by ElderWatsonDiggs

Since this thread is so big on quoting I'll join in.


i think it must be reiterated that, in the athletic footwear landscape hoops isn't the giant expanding market it once was, so just because a shoes hits the outlets does not signal some failure on a company's part especially when considering sig shoes that run upwards of $125+, basketball doesn't have that cache when it comes to general releases(unless that shoe has a jumpman on it! even moreso if it is a retro) in fact, it would likely be a challenge to name any $100+ hoops shoe (excluding jordans) that doesn't see the outlets at a discounted price...
i definitely agree that competition is sorely needed to reinvigorate basketball footwear & footwear in general, the reality is for nike, especially as it pertains to basketball, is that competition is jordan brand. i do not have the numbers but i think it goes jordan by a country mile, then nike, adidas a distant 3rd, and converse & reebok battling for 4th, not sure if and1 is still around...the problem isn't that there isn't competition, but that consumers don't really seem to see the competition as viable in a major way, maybe if UA snags LBJ it changes that dynamic, but i wouldn't count on it though, because as bad as people are saying that nike has been doing with their b-ball line(s) there has not been a migration to other brands. quite the opposite; they've become even more dominant, to the point that retailers are practically BEGGING other brands to show up in a major way (no doubt they would want to see this go down), so i believe it is going to take a change in the consumer mindset more than a change in scenery for LBJ to another brand...check out the other brands section every performance bball shoe from the competitors is mostly lambasted, and those brands have superstar personalties right now, and you still see are ruminations about if said person is going to leave for nike/jordan or what if said person was with nike/jordan or just plainly that nike/jordan just would do better...

and i can't for the life or me figure out, why people think LBJ's line is a failure...by which measure(s)?
The question highlighted in Yellow is all I want to know. When someone in here can quantitatively/empirically answer that question then I'll continue...until then it's just opinion and heresay.
Quantitative? Empirical? Sounds like a job for me!

Unfortunately, most of the info on that topic is kept under pretty tight security these days (I really miss the days when Steez had this info every quarter) but here is a link that shows the overall numbers from calendar year 2006, which for Lebron would have included the majority of the run of the ZLIII's, and the first colorway of the ZLIV's. In my opinion, the calendar year is sort of an interesting way to break it down (I think Q3 to Q3 would be a better fiscal year measure for basketball product) but, it does provide the same fair measure for everyone involved so I would assert that the stats are valid.

http://www.insidehoops.co...m/showthread.php?t=36302

Long story short, LBJ placed 27, 35, and 51 on the top 100.
Nike placed 91 shoes in the top 100 in total.
19 of the top 20 were Jordans.
All 20 of the top 20 were Nikes.

Again, this was in 2006 and Lebron had yet to take off as a marketing force so this list is admittedly a bit biased against him, but consider this - three years after Jordan's last launch of a shoe he actually wore on the court, three of MJ's XXI colorways outsold Lebron's best signature colorway in revenue generated (2 of them by 150%) and two of them outsold Lebron's signature in units sold, in less or equal time (the launches were a few weeks apart on the different colorways for the Jordans) and Jordan had
23 different offerings that outsold Lebron's top signature shoe (including a Show'm, a Laney, two team shoes, and a Dub Zero). The man that was anointed "King" had failed to crack the top 25 in the entire industry after FOUR shoe launches and trailed Kevin Garnett in units sold by more than 40,000 pairs and $1.3 million in revenue.

Further, this article dated June 23, 2008 is illuminating:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25330766/site/14081545?__source=yahoo|headline|quote|text|&par=yahoo

What's also interesting to take from that article is that Nike has a 93.5% share of the basketball shoe market, as of less than a year ago. Adidas has 4%, and the remaining 2.5% is presumably the Starbury/Puma/Peak/LiNing/Payless/etc.

Nike is the 153rd biggest company in America on the 2008 Fortune 500 list. They are the biggest apparel company by a mile; VFC with Lee, Wrangler, Majestic, Nautica, etc. is second at #335. Jordan shoes make up 67% of basketball shoe sales - Lebron is part of a Nike segment that along with Kobe and the other Nike basketball guys accounts for only 24% (second link).

IF THAT ARTICLE IS ACCURATE (which, it's Rovell at CNBC so there's no reason it wouldn't be) Lebron, in collaboration with all the other Nike athletes, sells over 250% fewer shoes than Michael Jordan, Carmelo Anthony, and maybe Chris Paul combined (not sure if they included Paul's first signature in that list yet - I would guess not since it had launched only a few months earlier, but that's strictly a guess). It's not even that he's not doing it on his own, it's that he can't do it as a part of the entire Nike Basketball stable.

That is why people think Lebron's line is a failure.


I asked for it, I got it. I will have to read it in further detail before coming up with avalid response so I don't put my foot in my mouth. Muito appreciated.
 
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