Whitlock: Moss is more valuable than Brady

[ritchdad]

people are just writing to write these days....this is corny stuff...and i hope it isnt brought up this whole week on pti

 

[715 asterisk]

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i'm going to keep it short and sweet. moss was doing this longggggg before brady came along. brady wasn't doing this before moss arrived. that's all i gotta say.


Moss was tearing it up with Aaron Brooks.

 

[kobefan88]

i'm going to keep it short and sweet. moss was doing this longggggg before brady came along. brady wasn't doing this before moss arrived. that's all i gotta say.
your right, Brady has never won without Moss.

 

[calibeebee]

A wide reciever will never win MVP unless he puts up moss numbers with 3 different quarterbacks in 1 seaston

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by J RAIN 23

i'm going to keep it short and sweet. moss was doing this longggggg before brady came along. brady wasn't doing this before moss arrived. that's all i gotta say.

Brady was winning Superbowls and Superbowl MVPs long before Randy got to New England...As for Randy...well...hasn't won anything.

Like others have already said...Randy Moss needs Tom Brady and New England more than Tom Brady and New England need Randy Moss.

Dudes act like Randy Moss is some miracle worker and is making Tom Brady into something that he's not...Well, that isn't the case. Tom was a great QBbefore Randy Moss, he'll be a great QB after Moss is gone. Sure, Randy makes things easier in that offense, and Tom hasn't put up numbers like thisbefore in his career because he's never had a weapon like Randy on offense, but Tom Brady is the MVP of that team.

 

[nyk buc]

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

i think b4 moss came here, NE's identity is more defense than brady. NE won w/ 80% defense and 20% offense/

yeah you could say that, but the comparisons of Brady to Montana are not far off....there is ice water that runs through his veins, and this has been the deal since he took over for Bledsoe back in 01'. Not to mention his playoff and Super Bowl resumes are ridiculous. Brady's exploits shouldn't be overlooked, because he was integral in getting the NE franchise to where they are today. That is HIS team.

true, but the defense allowed him to achieve all that. i mean look at the playoff scores that NE won w/ in their super bowls, most of them were VERY low scoring games where the defense pulled it out and dominated for the most part.

True, but the defense didn't drive down the field in the final minutes and set up field goals. Are you going to say that Vinateri was the main man in the 3 super bowls? He was the winning difference each time right?

It is clearly Brady's team. Zero doubt, just as it was Montana's team, or Peyton's team, even though they had Rice and Harrison.

DoubleJ's was right though, Moss is a one time and one time only guy. There are only a couple like that that are just different, it can't be explained, they are just different. Almost not human. Michael Vick is one. Randy another. LT I think belongs there. Not Ladanian, the real LT. A few years ago i would have said Kearse, but he fell off hard and real fast.
Moss changes the way a game is played. Every QB ever is taught to throw the open man, or at the very least, don't throw to a guy who is covered. Over the years, how many QB's have looked out at Moss, seen him double or triple covered, and STILL threw the ball to him? Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Throwing it up for the hell of it before you get sacked is one thing, actually choosing to throw to a guy who is triple covered (meaning someone else has to be all alone out there) is unreal. And how many times does Moss win the battle over the defenders? All the time.

If you took Moss off the team, the Pats are still going to be 8 - 2, maybe 9 - 1. they're still a good team. If you put Moss on the team, and took Brady off..........they would be a good team, but not like they are now. The Raiders are proof that if you don't have a smart QB who can deliver the ball, Moss can only do so much. So the value stays with Brady. They make each other better obviously, but nobody in Oakland even went to a pro bowl as the QB throwing to Moss, he didn't all of a sudden get really good in one offseason.

yes brad johnson drove them down for fgs too when the bucs won. trent dilfer drove them down for some fgs during the ravens' run. brady is obviouslybetter than those two but what i mean to say is:
brady MANAGED the game, he never was asked to WIN the game. if u refute that statement, well, i don't know what to say.

the defense kept the game close enough for brady to drive them down for fgs. b/c obvioulsy brady didn't lead drives to open up the game for the defense.

like i said, during their run before this yr, defense is 80%, offense is 20%

 

[nyk buc]

Originally Posted by 715 asterisk

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i'm going to keep it short and sweet. moss was doing this longggggg before brady came along. brady wasn't doing this before moss arrived. that's all i gotta say.

Moss was tearing it up with Aaron Brooks.


i think u should blame the raiders' pathetic o-line more than anything. moss would flourish with ANY qb, but the raiders' qbs never had anytime.
if brady or any qb does not have any time (outside of romo or mike vick), they would struggle to.

look what moss did w/ an old cunningham and jeff george for god sakes.

 

[nyk buc]

Originally Posted by gusyouout

i remember seeing someone write this in the other thread, and they got it right on in my eyes: without moss, new england is still a good team, but without brady, new england isn't a good team. you take away moss and the pats still have a dangerous team that are super bowl contenders, but you take away brady and the team could probably fall apart. he made that team great with a bunch of mediocre guys; only difference now is that they have great offensive players making great plays.

but who are u replacing brady with? like i said, i think u all forgot THE PATS MADE THE SUPERBOWL WITH BLEDSOE a few yrs b4 brady took the helm.

 

[bigmike23]

nyk buc wrote:
but who are u replacing brady with? like i said, i think u all forgot THE PATS MADE THE SUPERBOWL WITH BLEDSOE a few yrs b4 brady took the helm.


that was 2 different teams

 

[jayfiend]

Originally Posted by 715 asterisk

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i'm going to keep it short and sweet. moss was doing this longggggg before brady came along. brady wasn't doing this before moss arrived. that's all i gotta say.

Moss was tearing it up with Aaron Brooks.

Aaron Brooks can't throw the ball to Moss if he doesn't have time.

True, but the defense didn't drive down the field in the final minutes and set up field goals
Exactly field goals. The defense is the reason they were only down field goals. What if Brady needed touchdowns like Elway Or Montana did. Wouldhe have got the job done?

 

[nyk buc]

Originally Posted by JAYFIEND

Originally Posted by 715 asterisk

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i'm going to keep it short and sweet. moss was doing this longggggg before brady came along. brady wasn't doing this before moss arrived. that's all i gotta say.

Moss was tearing it up with Aaron Brooks.

Aaron Brooks can't throw the ball to Moss if he doesn't have time.

True, but the defense didn't drive down the field in the final minutes and set up field goals
Exactly field goals. The defense is the reason they were only down field goals. What if Brady needed touchdowns like Elway Or Montana did. Would he have got the job done?


people don't remember but aaron brooks was deemed an "up and coming star" when he was w/ the saints and threw to joe horn. since moss is muchbetter than joe horn, brooks would have been pretty good. but the o line was just

again, brady was asked to MANAGE games, don't lose them, and drive for FGs here and there. he had no pressure to score TDs all the time. though brady isa great game manager.

obviously u take a QB out of any successful team, they suck b/c the qb position is the hardest to replace. but that does not mean the team sucks if ureplace brady w/ another QB w/ the same talent pool he has now. romo/farve/manning could EASILY duplicate what brady is doing if not better. romo's o-linehasn't been like brady and he has had to use his escapability many times (and the dallas D is nowhere close to brady). farve has zero running game. manningbasically has the talent to work w/ that brady used to have and he's putting up average stats (and no wayne is not a #1).
brady is a great player. butit's time for people to give moss some credit. he has proven he can play even w/ the one of the worst QBs of all time in jeff george. he rejuvenatedcunninghams' career. he made culpepper a star.

brady wasn't sniffing anything close to records before moss. the passes/tds that brady has thrown to moss are basically "no nos" to otherreceivers, even TO, marvin harrison...

 

[jayfiend]

people don't remember but aaron brooks was deemed an "up and coming star" when he was w/ the saints and threw to joe horn. since moss is much better than joe horn, brooks would have been pretty good. but the o line was just

Exactly! People are so quick to say Moss didn't try and blah blah blah. But if you watched them years you would have seen how sad that o-linereally was. Every time they snapped the ball Brooks was running for his life. And they were just sending Moss deep, you cant't throw the ball deep if youro-line sucks people. What was he going to do block then run his route? People really need to stop speaking on his Oakland years if they didn't watch thegames.And yes I'm a skins fan but Moss is the only player I like outside the burgandy and gold.

 

[el producto79]

This argument is mad annoying.

Bottom line is THESE TWO ARE BOTH BENEFITING GREATLY FROM EACH OTHER. Just enjoy watching it, that's what I do.

 

[CP1708]

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by CP1708

Originally Posted by nyk buc

Originally Posted by DoubleJs07

i think b4 moss came here, NE's identity is more defense than brady. NE won w/ 80% defense and 20% offense/

yeah you could say that, but the comparisons of Brady to Montana are not far off....there is ice water that runs through his veins, and this has been the deal since he took over for Bledsoe back in 01'. Not to mention his playoff and Super Bowl resumes are ridiculous. Brady's exploits shouldn't be overlooked, because he was integral in getting the NE franchise to where they are today. That is HIS team.

true, but the defense allowed him to achieve all that. i mean look at the playoff scores that NE won w/ in their super bowls, most of them were VERY low scoring games where the defense pulled it out and dominated for the most part.

True, but the defense didn't drive down the field in the final minutes and set up field goals. Are you going to say that Vinateri was the main man in the 3 super bowls? He was the winning difference each time right?

It is clearly Brady's team. Zero doubt, just as it was Montana's team, or Peyton's team, even though they had Rice and Harrison.

DoubleJ's was right though, Moss is a one time and one time only guy. There are only a couple like that that are just different, it can't be explained, they are just different. Almost not human. Michael Vick is one. Randy another. LT I think belongs there. Not Ladanian, the real LT. A few years ago i would have said Kearse, but he fell off hard and real fast.
Moss changes the way a game is played. Every QB ever is taught to throw the open man, or at the very least, don't throw to a guy who is covered. Over the years, how many QB's have looked out at Moss, seen him double or triple covered, and STILL threw the ball to him? Do you realize how ridiculous that is? Throwing it up for the hell of it before you get sacked is one thing, actually choosing to throw to a guy who is triple covered (meaning someone else has to be all alone out there) is unreal. And how many times does Moss win the battle over the defenders? All the time.

If you took Moss off the team, the Pats are still going to be 8 - 2, maybe 9 - 1. they're still a good team. If you put Moss on the team, and took Brady off..........they would be a good team, but not like they are now. The Raiders are proof that if you don't have a smart QB who can deliver the ball, Moss can only do so much. So the value stays with Brady. They make each other better obviously, but nobody in Oakland even went to a pro bowl as the QB throwing to Moss, he didn't all of a sudden get really good in one offseason.

yes brad johnson drove them down for fgs too when the bucs won. trent dilfer drove them down for some fgs during the ravens' run. brady is obviously better than those two but what i mean to say is:
brady MANAGED the game, he never was asked to WIN the game. if u refute that statement, well, i don't know what to say.

the defense kept the game close enough for brady to drive them down for fgs. b/c obvioulsy brady didn't lead drives to open up the game for the defense.

like i said, during their run before this yr, defense is 80%, offense is 20%

You won't find a bigger Randy Moss fan than me. Love the guy. But, I honestly don't think you get it. Correct me if I am wrong here, butdidn't Tom Brady take a team of ZERO WR's last year to Indy, and have them on the ropes only to have the D collapse and let it go? Now, the point tothat is, he was the main weapon along with a pretty good run game against an offensive juggernaut and he damn near beat them. If they beat the Bears, thatwould have been ring number 4. Hell, they wouldn't have even gone after Moss/Welker/Stalworth if they had gotten number 4 last year. When they lost, theysaid screw it, get the man some toys and they did. He carried an offense to almost almost 4 titles and now you're saying that Moss makes him who he histoday? Do you think that Manning could take a bunch of scrub WR's to within an inch of the super bowl? With the same defense as Brady, could Manning doit? He's missing some guys now and he's looking pretty wobbly isn't he? Brady was still a threat to win the bowl anyways. You feel Manning couldget it done with Troy Brown as his number one? Gaffney? I don't think so.

Moss is great, but he has to have a QB who has the arm strength and the mind to throw the ball up. Cunningham, George, Pepper, and now Brady all do. The boysin Oakland just wouldn't throw it deep. They were afraid of the int's or something. I know the line was garbage but the whole point with randy isjust throw it up and he'll go get it. They wouldn't throw it.

I said it earlier, I'll say it again, if Moss goes down, do the Pats still have a chance? Yes. If Matt Cassell is the QB, do they Pats have a chance? Nothey don't.

Case closed.

 

[aepps20]

It all comes back to that offensive line. If you have time, even the average receivers in today's NFL will get open and occasionally make a play.