Why don't sportcasters keep it real about Lebron?

[lukethejediknight]

aboveleot, it isn't "at the time". CP is StILL the better point guard.

Also OP: your argument is not only false, but irrelevant. The dude adds more to his team offensively (as Dwight does defensively for the Magic) more than else in the league by a variety of metrics. So what's the issue then?

 

[lukethejediknight]

aboveleot, it isn't "at the time". CP is StILL the better point guard.

Also OP: your argument is not only false, but irrelevant. The dude adds more to his team offensively (as Dwight does defensively for the Magic) more than else in the league by a variety of metrics. So what's the issue then?

 

[kingjames23]

 

[kingjames23]

 

[truthgetsbusy]

I really don't have a problem with this thread.  I agree for the most part.  Keep in mind tho the Lebron knows what he's doing and it's not his best interest to become Jamal Crawford out there.  He gets the job done.  I would like to see some moves from him ala Joe Johnson. 

 

[truthgetsbusy]

I really don't have a problem with this thread.  I agree for the most part.  Keep in mind tho the Lebron knows what he's doing and it's not his best interest to become Jamal Crawford out there.  He gets the job done.  I would like to see some moves from him ala Joe Johnson. 

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

LeBron has one of the most explosive first steps the league has seen (watch and read some scouting reports).

No he doesn't stop lying to yourself. Instead of reading and watching scouting reports...watch the games! People mistake his speed up and down the court with his ability to beat his man consistently. He can't! I've watched him play too much for my mind to be changed by some lame nbadraft.net "scouting report".

Combine that with his speed, massive frame, and brute strength, and you got a guy who can get to the rim against anyone (and has). So I have no idea what you're talking about.

You have no idea because you don't really be "watching". Sure, there are rare occasions where against a solid defending SF LeBron can beat his man...but 95% of the time, this dude uses a screen because he consistently can't. In the same fashion that you can be a great team defender but a poor individual defender because the lack of lateral quicknes...you can have all those attributes you listed but still can't beat your man because the lack of a good first step. He needs a pick...get used to it.

Regardless, dudes on NT love to do this. Bring down a guy because of what he can't do, without regarding what he can and does do. Dwight is already an all-time great defender and incredibly efficient offensive player, but he smiles too much and misses some free throws, so he's not worth talking about. LeBron is the best player in the league, great passer, defender, etc. but you're criticizing him why, exactly? Because he doesn't jack up useless shots in isolation? Okay. He's hitting 44% of his shots in isolation btw, well above average.
It has nothing to do with criticizing him...I'm speaking what I believe the truth. I don't have any secret motives in sharing this information. I really honestly believe that Lebron lacks this part of the game. Is he a great player...sure - there are other things he does well that makes up for this flaw. But I can't proclaim him anywhere in the atmosphere of the best player in the league with this type of obvious shortcoming. And what I highlighted is the reason why I believe more respected sportscasters don't keep it real...it comes off like you are glamourizing a individual and sometimes negative aspect of the
game. It has nothing to do with that. I just know what I see.







Once again, I watch plenty of games, and I can see that relative to all NBA players, LeBron has a great first step. Just because I use all available resources to form my opinions, doesn't mean I don't watch basketball.

And you're logic is flawed anyway. EVERY player has holes in their game. By your reasoning, I can't consider Jordan the greatest, because his range was average at best.

Luke, I agree, but I don't think it's "by far" anymore.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by 4Shoposite

Originally Posted by abovelegit1

LeBron has one of the most explosive first steps the league has seen (watch and read some scouting reports).

No he doesn't stop lying to yourself. Instead of reading and watching scouting reports...watch the games! People mistake his speed up and down the court with his ability to beat his man consistently. He can't! I've watched him play too much for my mind to be changed by some lame nbadraft.net "scouting report".

Combine that with his speed, massive frame, and brute strength, and you got a guy who can get to the rim against anyone (and has). So I have no idea what you're talking about.

You have no idea because you don't really be "watching". Sure, there are rare occasions where against a solid defending SF LeBron can beat his man...but 95% of the time, this dude uses a screen because he consistently can't. In the same fashion that you can be a great team defender but a poor individual defender because the lack of lateral quicknes...you can have all those attributes you listed but still can't beat your man because the lack of a good first step. He needs a pick...get used to it.

Regardless, dudes on NT love to do this. Bring down a guy because of what he can't do, without regarding what he can and does do. Dwight is already an all-time great defender and incredibly efficient offensive player, but he smiles too much and misses some free throws, so he's not worth talking about. LeBron is the best player in the league, great passer, defender, etc. but you're criticizing him why, exactly? Because he doesn't jack up useless shots in isolation? Okay. He's hitting 44% of his shots in isolation btw, well above average.
It has nothing to do with criticizing him...I'm speaking what I believe the truth. I don't have any secret motives in sharing this information. I really honestly believe that Lebron lacks this part of the game. Is he a great player...sure - there are other things he does well that makes up for this flaw. But I can't proclaim him anywhere in the atmosphere of the best player in the league with this type of obvious shortcoming. And what I highlighted is the reason why I believe more respected sportscasters don't keep it real...it comes off like you are glamourizing a individual and sometimes negative aspect of the
game. It has nothing to do with that. I just know what I see.







Once again, I watch plenty of games, and I can see that relative to all NBA players, LeBron has a great first step. Just because I use all available resources to form my opinions, doesn't mean I don't watch basketball.

And you're logic is flawed anyway. EVERY player has holes in their game. By your reasoning, I can't consider Jordan the greatest, because his range was average at best.

Luke, I agree, but I don't think it's "by far" anymore.

 

[4shoposite]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

aboveleot, it isn't "at the time". CP is StILL the better point guard.

Also OP: your argument is not only false, but irrelevant. The dude adds more to his team offensively (as Dwight does defensively for the Magic) more than else in the league by a variety of metrics. So what's the issue then?

If you think it's irrelevant, fine. Maybe he does add more to his team in other areas...

...but that's not why I made this thread. I actually agreed with that. What I stated is about his ability to score for himself. IMHO - compared to the recognition he gets, hes below average.

Everyone knows...or should know...that the way you score in the first three quarters can't be depended on when the game is one the line. What seperates great players in this aspect is the ability to get a clean shot off for yourself. Even with a underaverage first step, Reggie Miller realized that he has to create the seperation by getting a clean look off screens. Threes and outside jumpers just so happen to be a higher percentage shot to him than his driving ability.

LeBron James - when he trys to get a basket for himself - trys to score like a person who can beat his man consistently and create seperation. But he can't...consistently. That's all i'm arguing. If you're saying he's good enough to where that shouldn't matter...fine. All I'm saying is that I believe sportscasters should acknowledge this weakness of his game.

  

 

[4shoposite]

Originally Posted by LuketheJediKnight

aboveleot, it isn't "at the time". CP is StILL the better point guard.

Also OP: your argument is not only false, but irrelevant. The dude adds more to his team offensively (as Dwight does defensively for the Magic) more than else in the league by a variety of metrics. So what's the issue then?

If you think it's irrelevant, fine. Maybe he does add more to his team in other areas...

...but that's not why I made this thread. I actually agreed with that. What I stated is about his ability to score for himself. IMHO - compared to the recognition he gets, hes below average.

Everyone knows...or should know...that the way you score in the first three quarters can't be depended on when the game is one the line. What seperates great players in this aspect is the ability to get a clean shot off for yourself. Even with a underaverage first step, Reggie Miller realized that he has to create the seperation by getting a clean look off screens. Threes and outside jumpers just so happen to be a higher percentage shot to him than his driving ability.

LeBron James - when he trys to get a basket for himself - trys to score like a person who can beat his man consistently and create seperation. But he can't...consistently. That's all i'm arguing. If you're saying he's good enough to where that shouldn't matter...fine. All I'm saying is that I believe sportscasters should acknowledge this weakness of his game.

  

 

[lukethejediknight]

I always laugh when people keep talking about "the game on the line". ITS A 48 MINUTE GAME. EVERY BASKET COUNTS.

Anyway, like I said, whether you feel this wu about LBJ or not is irrelevant. Even if I agreed with you here (and I don't) don't you think hat he brings in other areas makes up for it?

 

[lukethejediknight]

I always laugh when people keep talking about "the game on the line". ITS A 48 MINUTE GAME. EVERY BASKET COUNTS.

Anyway, like I said, whether you feel this wu about LBJ or not is irrelevant. Even if I agreed with you here (and I don't) don't you think hat he brings in other areas makes up for it?

 

[lukethejediknight]

double

 

[lukethejediknight]

double

 

[4shoposite]

What are you talking about? Sure every point counts, but there's an obvious difference in the way team's strategize to desperately stop a player from scoring when the results of the possession are really critical. Now I know you are just saying stuff to just argue.




Take a look at this video. When you take a close look you realize that yes Lebron is playing well in a team concept, but it's very obvious that his offensive game is limited. He can't consistently beat his man, and he depends on picks in order to create much of his offense for his team (Same thing Andre Miller does). Sure, these are great plays to have in order to help your team win...but in game critical situations, the opposition isn't going to allow things to be that simple...which is why team's normally switch defenders. Look at the times Lebron actually scores and seriously ask yourself can he depend on those shots consistently when the game is on the line? That's where his shortcomings is. I sarcastically have the term "cheap points" (even I know that nothing in the NBA is easy)...but truthfully speaking, that's where a lot of his points comes from. When the game is on the line, there's no such thing as cheap points and that's why Lebron struggles.

 

[4shoposite]

What are you talking about? Sure every point counts, but there's an obvious difference in the way team's strategize to desperately stop a player from scoring when the results of the possession are really critical. Now I know you are just saying stuff to just argue.




Take a look at this video. When you take a close look you realize that yes Lebron is playing well in a team concept, but it's very obvious that his offensive game is limited. He can't consistently beat his man, and he depends on picks in order to create much of his offense for his team (Same thing Andre Miller does). Sure, these are great plays to have in order to help your team win...but in game critical situations, the opposition isn't going to allow things to be that simple...which is why team's normally switch defenders. Look at the times Lebron actually scores and seriously ask yourself can he depend on those shots consistently when the game is on the line? That's where his shortcomings is. I sarcastically have the term "cheap points" (even I know that nothing in the NBA is easy)...but truthfully speaking, that's where a lot of his points comes from. When the game is on the line, there's no such thing as cheap points and that's why Lebron struggles.

 

[PatRiley]

I've watched 90% of the heat games this year (NBA league pass ftw) and have learned a lot about Lebrons tendencies.

No, he does not have a "quick" first step, but it's not slow. The dude is 6'8 and (possibly) 275 lbs, of course he's not going to have one of the fastest first steps in the league

No offense, but the way you are breaking down his game makes you sound like a moron. Who cares if he can't take everyone 1 v 1? The game is 5 v 5 buddy. He's had clutch moments, yes, but is he the clutchest? I think we all know that answer (and I'm a Lebron/Heat fan). He doesn't pray for a defender to foul him, they foul him because if they didn't he would get an easy basket

You yourself are putting Lebron on a pedestal, critiquing parts of his game that are somewhat irrelevant to the system he is in. If you want the announcers "to be real" about Lebron, I hope you stay far away from the cameras.

 

[PatRiley]

I've watched 90% of the heat games this year (NBA league pass ftw) and have learned a lot about Lebrons tendencies.

No, he does not have a "quick" first step, but it's not slow. The dude is 6'8 and (possibly) 275 lbs, of course he's not going to have one of the fastest first steps in the league

No offense, but the way you are breaking down his game makes you sound like a moron. Who cares if he can't take everyone 1 v 1? The game is 5 v 5 buddy. He's had clutch moments, yes, but is he the clutchest? I think we all know that answer (and I'm a Lebron/Heat fan). He doesn't pray for a defender to foul him, they foul him because if they didn't he would get an easy basket

You yourself are putting Lebron on a pedestal, critiquing parts of his game that are somewhat irrelevant to the system he is in. If you want the announcers "to be real" about Lebron, I hope you stay far away from the cameras.

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by streethoopkilla

Ppl are still upset over the decision? critzicing him over his first step? really?

Lebron will be one of the most athetically gifted athletes in the league that we will watch in our lifetime along with some others. He will always be in MVP talks, All NBA teams, All Star teams regardless of a first step or not. Forget the fact that he choose to go down south, he cant hit game winners, he has a bad PR team, or his mom got into trouble or whatever it maybe. He is still a THE game changer rather a  first step or nothing

Fixed.

 

[seymore cake]

Originally Posted by streethoopkilla

Ppl are still upset over the decision? critzicing him over his first step? really?

Lebron will be one of the most athetically gifted athletes in the league that we will watch in our lifetime along with some others. He will always be in MVP talks, All NBA teams, All Star teams regardless of a first step or not. Forget the fact that he choose to go down south, he cant hit game winners, he has a bad PR team, or his mom got into trouble or whatever it maybe. He is still a THE game changer rather a  first step or nothing

Fixed.

 

[4shoposite]

Originally Posted by heirjordan15


You yourself are putting Lebron on a pedestal, critiquing parts of his game that are somewhat irrelevant to the system he is in. If you want the announcers "to be real" about Lebron, I hope you stay far away from the cameras.

 I'm a moron though? The Heat system is what actually is the drawback to this whole thing. The Heat system IS a isolation form of offense. So what are you talking about? How is it irrelevant if the offensive system puts importance on isolation scoring. F outta here

  

 

[4shoposite]

Originally Posted by heirjordan15


You yourself are putting Lebron on a pedestal, critiquing parts of his game that are somewhat irrelevant to the system he is in. If you want the announcers "to be real" about Lebron, I hope you stay far away from the cameras.

 I'm a moron though? The Heat system is what actually is the drawback to this whole thing. The Heat system IS a isolation form of offense. So what are you talking about? How is it irrelevant if the offensive system puts importance on isolation scoring. F outta here

  

 

[damnthosejs]

Lebron is a very limited offensive player but what he can do he does well.  Really well.  It's why he can put up the numbers he puts up. 
Word to Dwight Howard.

His offensive skills is very limited but as long as he puts up 20-10-1 to 3blks/ per night it's all gravy.

Lebron will evolve as a player. His development doesn't stop here. LBJ can't play the way he's playing now 5 years from now, so he has to learn more moves on the offense instead of just relying on what he has now (see: Kobe's high/low post fadeaway).

...

on the other hand, I think the reason for Iverson's decline in the league is because of this. His game never evolved (hey, I won't take away '97 to '03 from him) + getting in a team where he isn't the star anymore. Just compare him to JKidd and Steve Nash right now and you'll probably see where I'm comming from.

 

[damnthosejs]

Lebron is a very limited offensive player but what he can do he does well.  Really well.  It's why he can put up the numbers he puts up. 
Word to Dwight Howard.

His offensive skills is very limited but as long as he puts up 20-10-1 to 3blks/ per night it's all gravy.

Lebron will evolve as a player. His development doesn't stop here. LBJ can't play the way he's playing now 5 years from now, so he has to learn more moves on the offense instead of just relying on what he has now (see: Kobe's high/low post fadeaway).

...

on the other hand, I think the reason for Iverson's decline in the league is because of this. His game never evolved (hey, I won't take away '97 to '03 from him) + getting in a team where he isn't the star anymore. Just compare him to JKidd and Steve Nash right now and you'll probably see where I'm comming from.

 

[tunnel vision]

His game is evolving if you've followed his career closely. He's driving ALOT less than in previous years and his midrange game has started to improve, as well as his shot selection. For a perimeter player, I find it amazing that he shot 58% last month and over 51% for the season. He moves more off the ball and post way more than he ever did in Cleveland.

As for him not having a quick first step, I think he's near the top for those within his position. Its crazy to think that at his height/weight, he should be as quick as the elite PG's and SG's.