Would The World Be A Better Place If Religion Did Not Exist

[callhimar]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Didn't think that that many NTers believed humans are fundamentally evil.

With the way this thread is going the answer is to get rid of humans not religion? Right? Or do we not really care about the world being a better place and this is just a bunch of convolution since most people can't accept their own nature?

For what it's worth I would like to see a world void of belief. I'm curious to see a world dealing with certainty and that alone.

There will always be people in denial.

In this rational world I figure a strict caste system would be set to wipe them out and make them meaningless.

Hmm, that would be interesting to see if people would rebel against the caste system. This would be a really interesting world. I might have to create it, word to 1984.

No castes, we should all live in equality and reap the benefits of production equally.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Didn't think that that many NTers believed humans are fundamentally evil.

With the way this thread is going the answer is to get rid of humans not religion? Right? Or do we not really care about the world being a better place and this is just a bunch of convolution since most people can't accept their own nature?

For what it's worth I would like to see a world void of belief. I'm curious to see a world dealing with certainty and that alone.

There will always be people in denial.

In this rational world I figure a strict caste system would be set to wipe them out and make them meaningless.

Hmm, that would be interesting to see if people would rebel against the caste system. This would be a really interesting world. I might have to create it, word to 1984.

This is not your every day caste system. As expected there'd be a rebellion in the early 11th-14th centuries. We'd remedy that with sometype of manifest destiny on a global scale. If those who are rational and deal with certainty are in power(and they most likely will be in this world) we'dsystematically get rid of those in denial that want to indulge in nonsense over a few decades and come up with a formula to get rid of them for centuries tocome. It'd be no different from now with those in power controlling the ignorant and getting rid of those who rebel except we'd ideally have a betterreason for our actions.

Keep in mind tho this is a world void of belief. We deal with certainty. There's no problem with disagreeing with theories since we can always debate thatand continue to research until we find a common ground or the truth. If there are seriously "always ppl in denial" as you say they'll die out. Wejust have to make sure they don't come in to power and gain a following. This is no different than when ppl were in denial that the world was round or thatthe Earth wasn't the center of the universe. They'll die out when certainty punches them in their face. In this world logic prevails.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Originally Posted by CallHimAR

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Didn't think that that many NTers believed humans are fundamentally evil.

With the way this thread is going the answer is to get rid of humans not religion? Right? Or do we not really care about the world being a better place and this is just a bunch of convolution since most people can't accept their own nature?

For what it's worth I would like to see a world void of belief. I'm curious to see a world dealing with certainty and that alone.

There will always be people in denial.

In this rational world I figure a strict caste system would be set to wipe them out and make them meaningless.

Hmm, that would be interesting to see if people would rebel against the caste system. This would be a really interesting world. I might have to create it, word to 1984.

No castes, we should all live in equality and reap the benefits of production equally.

You're such a commie

I really like the concept you've developed, Zik. It's really intriguing. My only question is, where do stupid people fall in this world of logic? Willthey submit to the logic since they are too dumb to create their own ideologies to dispute logic?

 

[dirtylicious]

Originally Posted by JohnnyRedStorm

But isn't their ignorance revealed through their interpretations?

not at all.
.... they could know the teachings inside and out...but still come to wicked conclusions.

Didn't think that that many NTers believed humans are fundamentally evil.
not all...but you can't deny that there are some people in the world who just want to do mischief.

 

[dirtylicious]

This is not your every day caste system. As expected there'd be a rebellion in the early 11th-14th centuries. We'd remedy that with some type of manifest destiny on a global scale. If those who are rational and deal with certainty are in power(and they most likely will be in this world) we'd systematically get rid of those in denial that want to indulge in nonsense over a few decades and come up with a formula to get rid of them for centuries to come. It'd be no different from now with those in power controlling the ignorant and getting rid of those who rebel except we'd ideally have a better reason for our actions.
like I said earlier...

you'll never get rid of the concept of religion... since there will always be followers and leaders who will seek to take advantage of that....
if it's not belief in "god" that's being misused by evil people......it will be a belief in another thing.
same thing...different belief system.
in the end... you're still "getting rid of" people in the name of a belief system

 

[chris boshs neck]

well obviously in this day and age...but back in the day though I think religion kind of kept people in check not to wild out.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Dirtylicious

This is not your every day caste system. As expected there'd be a rebellion in the early 11th-14th centuries. We'd remedy that with some type of manifest destiny on a global scale. If those who are rational and deal with certainty are in power(and they most likely will be in this world) we'd systematically get rid of those in denial that want to indulge in nonsense over a few decades and come up with a formula to get rid of them for centuries to come. It'd be no different from now with those in power controlling the ignorant and getting rid of those who rebel except we'd ideally have a better reason for our actions.

like I said earlier...

you'll never get rid of the concept of religion... since there will always be followers and leaders who will seek to take advantage of that....
if it's not belief in "god" that's being misused by evil people......it will be a belief in another thing.
same thing...different belief system.
in the end... you're still "getting rid of" people in the name of a belief system

It's not a belief system at all. You have a problem or threat. Then you come to the best solution. One which would be to get rid of theproblem or threat. Them being a threat or a problem isn't a belief it's obvious. The solution to get rid of them instead of them letting run rampantisn't a belief either. It's survival instincts. It's not going to be a society run by whatever will be will be so if _____ becomes more powerfulwe'll just let them take over.

As for the manifest destiny, having a better reason for our actions, and getting rid of them. It's simply using their denial against them. A gambit. Itdoesn't even have to be manifest destiny in the same way it was done in our history. Just a common agreement that we would be better off united as opposedto divided after factoring in what problems being divided can cause. It wouldn't be we believe therefore we do it, but more like we are certain thereforewe will rectify this situation. Don't necessarily have to "get rid of them" anyway just put em all on an island or something. The "betterreason for our actions" ofcourse would be something we are certain in and would not regret which imo is more of an act of free will than belief

 

[jdb1523]

No.

The basis of all religions is morality, and throughout history there's always been a place for that.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by ServeChilled81

where does the need for law come from?
where does the initial determining of right and wrong originate?

no to challenge you guys but i'd like to understand
can either anyone shed more light on that for me?

Edited

 

[antonlavey]

From Letter to a Christian Nation, by Sam Harris


One of the most pernicious effects of religion is that it tends to divorce morality from the reality of human and animal suffering. Religion allows people toimagine that their concerns are moral when they are not--that is, when they have nothing to do with suffering or its alleviation. Indeed, religion allowspeople to imagine that their concerns are moral when they are highly immoral--that is, when pressing these concerns inflicts unnecessary and appallingsuffering on innocent human beings. This explains why Christians like yourself expend more "moral" energy opposing abortion than fighting genocide.It explains why you are more concerned about human embryos than about the lifesaving promise of stem-cell research. And it explains why you can preach againstcondom use in sub-Saharan Africa while millions die from AIDS there each year...

 

[al audi]

if religion never existed i would def have a few bodies on my hands already

so nah.........even though this world is crazy it still keeps a lot of normal people in check.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Al Audi

if religion never existed i would def have a few bodies on my hands already

so nah.........even though this world is crazy it still keeps a lot of normal people in check.

You telling me religion keeps you from murdering ppl?

The fear of one day dying and going to hell is what keeps you from killing human beings?

See in the world without religion you'd be committed to a psychiatry wardaround the time you were a preteen for life.

Hope everybody reads Anton's recent post.

 

[rko2004]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey


From Letter to a Christian Nation, by Sam Harris


One of the most pernicious effects of religion is that it tends to divorce morality from the reality of human and animal suffering. Religion allows people to imagine that their concerns are moral when they are not--that is, when they have nothing to do with suffering or its alleviation. Indeed, religion allows people to imagine that their concerns are moral when they are highly immoral--that is, when pressing these concerns inflicts unnecessary and appalling suffering on innocent human beings. This explains why Christians like yourself expend more "moral" energy opposing abortion than fighting genocide. It explains why you are more concerned about human embryos than about the lifesaving promise of stem-cell research. And it explains why you can preach against condom use in sub-Saharan Africa while millions die from AIDS there each year...

This letter made a point, but it also is one sided IMO. For every question to religious/spiritual people about what they don't do, or what they couldbetter use their energy on. The same can be said for the opposing side. Yeah we have out examples posted all the time, but I never see the post or anyonetalking about the wasted energy non spiritual/religious people put into things like, getting the ten commandments and other religious text removed from publicplaces, changing the traditions of the holiday season, removing God from our money/nations songs.

I mean who does that really effect? What does it really effect? Personal preference? Lets not talk about wasting time and energy. Please.Lets stay on coursethough.

Would the world be better off? IMO no.