- 106,759
- 78,665
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2011
Swagger's run
What a wasted MITB win
Wrestling Thread Nov 7-13 | 11/13 TNA Turning Point - Roode vs Styles, Jarrett vs Hardy
- Thread in 'General' Thread starter Started by 4wrestling,
- Start date
Nike Jordan
Supporter
- 33,010
- 78,279
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2002
WWE is the new WCW.
- 7,127
- 772
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2007
Originally Posted by Peep Game
I was wondering what was goin on with that Chris Brown pic, especially THAT one
Caught me off guard I was like [Booker T] WHAT IN THE HAIL!? [Booker T]
- 30,184
- 1,991
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2000
Originally Posted by hombrelobo
Orton/Cena are 31 and 34. Barrett/Ziggler/Kofi/Miz are 31. Bryan is 30. Everyone else (Swagger/DiBiase..Okay maybe not DiBiase) are in their late 20s. Hell, Ryder and Rhodes are only 26. Dudes, give it time. It will happen. We're still in a transition phase.
Why push these guys to the moon when The Rock is already headlining Mania this year? A year from now, yes. Now... why? They are all getting good pushed given today's booking practices by the WWE.
It's not like these future top stars are getting John Morrisoned.
What will happen? They're going to suddenly change their mind and have Cena or Orton start losing? They're going to focus on long term booking to build legitimate momentum behind younger talent? They're going to make the titles mean something so it's actually a big deal when new guy wins it?
You know damn well none of this is happening. CM Punk couldn't even beat Cena clean.
They're getting good pushes now?!?!? What the hell do you consider a good push? Have you been that brainwashed by present day WWE that you don't know what a good push is? NONE of these guys are getting good pushes. They are all midcard geeks. And fans see them as midcard geeks. Why do you think buyrates suck? Because no one believes any of these midcard geeks are going to beat Cena on PPV. And even if they do, it will be a fluke win and they will lose the title back to Cena a month later.
None are getting John Morrisoned? Oh, sorry. Last I looked Ziggler was losing to Zach Ryder who WWE has continuously buried. Swagger was losing to Santino and the Muppets. Del Rio was losing cleanly to Big Show when Big Show isn't even a challenger for his title. Orton beat both Rhodes and Ziggler clean and had no desire to compete for their midcard geek titles.
Maybe you should cut back on the amount you smoke, homie.
brasilianmami
Banned
- 2,600
- 14
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2008
[/kayfabe]
NTSeries and the Supershow is still like 2-3 weeks away.
after the influx of promos during the NTSeries picks,
i think everyone is just taking a break so the promos don't become repetitive and dull.
plus NTWE won't get stale and stays fresh that way.
[kayfabe]
and since you have been so in sync with the words repetitive, dull and stale.. you really should milk this down period as long as you can.
unless that's the gimmick you were originally shooting for.
- 8,916
- 472
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
You're problem is with Orton/Cena being supermen, really. Get over it.
They're not going away anytime soon. They're too young and they bring in too much money. Why would the WWE push them aside to push anyone else? It takes time to get "the" push. Punk is just getting it. Punk is "losing" in the "WWE Universe", he's still winning $$.
"Winning" matches doesn't mean *$$% in this business.
You're complaining about "winning"
Regardless if these guys mid-card guys are "losing" they are making great money just by getting TV time, PPV matches, etc. Don't you get that? Do you really think they're complaining about the position they're being put in? I doubt it. That's a good "push" to me. They're getting exposure. They aren't sitting on the sidelines dying to a chance like The Uso's, Hawkins, Kidd, Tatsu, etc. Those guys are the real losers.
Question..
Honestly, who consistently get's a big enough reaction to be able to justify a hotshot push to the top? No one. They tried with Swagger. Didn't work out. Miz got a nice run with the title and now he's a major player. He lived up his end. Hell, he earned it with the reactions he was getting as US champ. Same with Del Rio. Who cares if they look like "geeks" They're the heels, dammit. They're supposed to be dumb, cheat, etc.
My point is these young guys are going to get that top spot eventually. So, why complain? All you can do as a fan is enjoy what's given or not watch. Will the WWE give these guys a good storyline to get them to the top? I don't know. But it's out everyone's control.
You seem to just hate the product WWE produces now.. period.
- 50,858
- 40,853
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2006
hombre is pretty much spot on. You're my dude 4w, but you are being way too pessimistic about this.
- 106,759
- 78,665
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2011
It is pretty funny that Cena and Orton are just 34 & 31, meaning they can still be steady a fixture of the WWE from
anywhere to 5-10 years (baring any bad injury). I guess it wouldn't feel so stale a lot of times if it wasn't just Orton,
Cena, and....____________. You have guys on deck that can be pushed, but you don't already have legit star guys
after Orton and Cena.
anywhere to 5-10 years (baring any bad injury). I guess it wouldn't feel so stale a lot of times if it wasn't just Orton,
Cena, and....____________. You have guys on deck that can be pushed, but you don't already have legit star guys
after Orton and Cena.
Nike Jordan
Supporter
- 33,010
- 78,279
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2002
Bend_The_Knee
formerly gotholesinmysocks
- 61,501
- 23,267
- Joined
- Apr 11, 2008
^^^i go to church every sunday praying orton gets a career ending injury
- 30,184
- 1,991
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2000
I do. Because it's @*%#.
- 5,249
- 715
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2008
But honestly, what can you do? WE can't do %^%^
All we can do is play pretend booker and cry about the current product that WE STILL WATCH EVERY WEEK.
There comes a point in time where you have to take things for what it is.
There are only 4 people on the roster over 40 (Taker, H, Nash, and Regal). The other young guys will have their chances but for now, we have to accept the product for what it is: a product generated towards an audience that is learning long division and look for "superheroes" to idolize.
All we can do is play pretend booker and cry about the current product that WE STILL WATCH EVERY WEEK.
There comes a point in time where you have to take things for what it is.
There are only 4 people on the roster over 40 (Taker, H, Nash, and Regal). The other young guys will have their chances but for now, we have to accept the product for what it is: a product generated towards an audience that is learning long division and look for "superheroes" to idolize.
- 8,916
- 472
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
- 8,916
- 472
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
BINGO.
- 106,759
- 78,665
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2011
Ditto to JRA's statement, though the WWE could easily cater to the entire demographic and not just 1. Kids are who they're catering to, but
not only kids are watching the product. They're making money off 1 demographhic, when they could be making money off of ALL the
demographics.
- 106,759
- 78,665
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2011
Uhhhh.....confused again
- 5,249
- 715
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2008
And if they were to do this, they'd be making money hand over fist.
I do think that there are some great wrestling minds in here. Why haven't you guys tried working on an independent circuit as a booker?
EDIT: ^
What D Hail!?
I do think that there are some great wrestling minds in here. Why haven't you guys tried working on an independent circuit as a booker?
EDIT: ^
- 8,916
- 472
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
I don't believe this. If this was the case ECW would still be alive.
It's too hard to book to please everyone. I honestly believe the WWE is trying to please many people. Look at the spotlight Daniel Byran got on SmackDown. Look at the push Ryder is getting. Sure, they have both been made to look like "geeks" somehow/someway, but all you can do is ride it out and hope the ride is entertaining for you as a fan. Like I said, I think the WWE is trying. To cater to everyone is impossible, though.
Edit- Man, now I'm saying "geek". Who am I? Meltzer?
Spoiler [+]
- 106,759
- 78,665
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2011
As far as what I was saying about appealing to an entire demographic, it's about appealing to the whole family unit, not just
the kids or not everybody from 1-99. There's definitely a way you can appeal to a kids w/o alienating older crowds (as in not
insulting their intelligence), and appeal to older crowds w/o going over kids heads or making them uncomfortable. Great
well developed writing could take care of all of that. And ECW wasn't appealing to everybody, it only appealed to people
wanting a stark contrast to WWF and WCW at the time, rebels and the whole counter-culture crowd.
- 8,916
- 472
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
You make a great point. Because now you're getting to the problem, which is the writing. Not the performers.. the writing.
- 4,104
- 10
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2006
Thats fair, but I look at it like this.
Orton isnt wrestling full time past 35, Randy is good enough right now to be the man. I would prefer Orton to Cena anyday of the week. Cena isnt wrestling for WWE past 38. I dont think Cena has Hogans ego, but that money train will dry up for him, and he will look elsewhere.
After that its Punk and everyone else.
Punk I like the flow to his babyface matches, more than I ever have. His babyface matches combined with the smarks have turned him face. Its not Stone Cold anti hero, its a bland face, but he is still fresh doing it. Combined with his potiental/ results on the mic, and I think its decent odd's that he is going to be the guy who the show is centered around once all the ego's leave.
On the cusp
Sheamus
Young/ fresh Midcard geeks.
Sans Ziggler, and maybe Miz and Rhodes there isnt a whole lot of potiental.
DelRio an average worker, and a non factor on the mic is forced down my throat.
Swagger is an average worker, and below average on the mic.
Truth is too old, Ryan will never get there.
Kofi is burried so bad at this point, that a heel turn is the only real option for him long term. But you have to replace him as a face.
Older / less fresh mid card geeks.
Christian needs a face turn bad. If he isnt going to be in the title picture, all of the reasons for him being a heel are gone.
Henry they have booked him almost perfect, but lets be real that title is a mid card title, and his push is only a level above Swagger's.
Big Show. An attraction who's push off injury was perfect, gimmicking the ring was dumb, and Henry should have went over clean.
Mid card guys who have a shot.
Christian
Henry for at most another year
Ziggler, the next big star imo
Rhodes, if they were to unify those titles, and allow Rhodes and Ziggler to steal the show that would be perfect. But if not before than right after Ziggler.
Miz, I personally wouldnt have him here, because I feel you have to be able to work a decent match. But on the big stage he doesnt get scared, and isnt exposed too bad at this point. His talking will continue to get him over.
Daniel Bryan if they ever figure out how to let him have matches and give him a face manager to Vicky's heel.
As for the problems?
There is no real pecking order. You look at everyother period where WWE was talent rich or was considered to be talent rich, there was still a clear pecking order.
Cena is the attraction, but who are the best workers? Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, in whatever order you want to put them in.
in the late 80's it was Hart, Perfect, Rude. Unless someone needed the title to get over those guys had the IC belt.
There wasnt a im going to give it to Kofi, because he is super over, and we know he should be in the title picture, but Orton wont work with him. Then he falls back again, cause Ziggler is the man, and this dude is such a goofy character that he isnt angry that he hasnt been pushed. Having a clear pecking order means that if your going to have 2 defined mid card titles you need at least 6 guys who at any time have and deserve the belt. Just cause Orton did the job for Henry doesnt mean he moves back to feud with Rhodes, reestablish Kofi on Smackdown. Stop making Ziggler carry tag matches, or play the Michaels, Diesel bit with Swagger.
Bottom line is that right now, no mid card guys is close to being credible enough to be the guy. At this point its Orton, Punk, Cena and everyone else. Cena needs a heel change, a match against Rocky wont satistify the need. Orton could stand to fall back, but dont insult him with the IC title or matches for the IC or US title. Punk needs the title after this Del Rio feud, cause you lost everyone believing in Punk.
Instead of focusing on Stone Cold there needs to be a dedication towards getting Bryan or Ziggler ready for a credible match where they win the title at WM. Call it a 2005 esque changing of the guard.
My WrestleMania card goes like this without Taker
Rock V Cena
Punk V Ziggler
Orton V Bryan
Sheamus vs Barrett Unless your going to give us the match for the title, they need to be fighting for number one contender for the WC. Sheamus being a face creates too much tension that hasnt yet been exploited.
Knowing that I already have Ziggler winning the Rumble, a number 1 contender match, and another 1 on 1 doesnt seem like a bad idea. I would imagine post WM it would be Cena and Ziggler for the WWE title, and Bryan V Barrett for the WC.
Rhodes can go build up cred vs Sheamus, and Punk ( still new enough to get a mid card title and not be destroyed)
6 man Ladder match for the unified IC/ US belts
Henry, Christian, Del Rio, Miz, Truth, Rhodes as champ.
4 team double elimination ( both members have to be eliminated) match for tag titles
Kidd and Sin Cara v Kofi and Bourne V Ryan and Swagger v Show and Kane.
Show gets knocked out everyone forgets about him. Kane gets eliminated, Ryan gets eliminated, Kidd gets an air Bourne through the table, Show choke slams Bourne through table. Kayfabe injury leg injury screws Show, missed Knockout punch and Show falls through table. And it comes down to who you want to push after that, Personally I'd leave Bourne outside of the ring or bring him back and have Kofi turn heel after the match leaving Bourne to bring in a new legit tag team like the USO's for a quick title change to get Kofi back to the real mid card. The annual Money in the bank type title change is the only ones I can really condone. So set the USO's up as the number 1 contenders when ever they want it, have them beating everyone who is in the tables match except Kane and Show ( keeps their respect and morale up) then show up after Kofi has just turned heel on Bourne ( Have him say something related to the suspension. You left me hanging, now I will leave you hangin) USO's get title.
I imagine That's overbooked, but then again I dont Bourne and Kofi had at least a three month run, Bourne's suspension and them getting stripped its almost perfect for a selfish Kofi to comeout in a heel turn.
WWE's direction.
The best way to build a life long wrestling fan is to expose them to great matches imo.
Storyline wise dont insult them and keep a guy in the main event doing the same 5 moves or the same tired finisher to win matches. Main event matches can end in school boys, sunset flips and suprise pin's in general. WWE has created a culture that dictates that a guy has to be almost dead for him to lose a match. That needs to be reversed. Im okay with PPV's ending with a finisher, but im tired of seeing 2-3 finisher attempts on RAW, and for mid card matches.
The most pathetic thing is that I can call every Cena match I see depending on the time of the match.
That's not even to bash Cena its to say that the 5 moves of doom dont always need to be countered, but they dont need to always be used.
With the direction of the majority of the talent base being under 240, and in general close in weight I dont want to see as many intentionally bad covers. The matches need to be altered, not to a drawn out 20 minutes like in the 80's, but to a happy medium which shows that yes guys get gassed, and yes they can be caught and beat. The type of match that is currently protrayed does no favors to smarks, and eventually disillusions kids.
Maybe That's a bad idea, I dont know, but I know im tired of paying attention to wrestling to spot the #@$+ ups, and to see what dumb direction a storyline goes. Trying to live up to the Attitude era is ******ed, believe it or not WCW in 1996-1997, and prob the entire period before Hulk had the type, and the match length on point. for the mid card. Extensive, and over kill finishers protects guys like Hulk, Nash, Goldberg, Cena, and Austin after 1997. No reason to use it for the entire card, regardless of if you think its WRASSLING or not.
Fact go back and watch the 60 minute Iron man Match between Rocky and HHH, compare it to Shawn and Bret, or better yet compare it to one of their classic mid card matches. For me the number of falls makes that the most disappointing match I have ever watched, and you no doubt be it that you remember the match, or watch it as a knowledgeable fan for the first time. You will be disappointed, if your not caught in the attitude lore.
- 30,184
- 1,991
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2000
AJ Styles severely injured his ankle and he may not be able to main event at Turning Point next week.
- 30,184
- 1,991
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2000
Yes, we can continue to tune out.
TNA has put on a better product than WWE (Raw) for months. TNA is far from perfect, but at least there is hope there. And with Lagana signing, maybe it will continue to get better.
6 Rings G.O.A.T.
Supporter
- 134,256
- 113,244
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2006
I didn't know aj styles was in the title picture.. Hell i didn't know there will be a impact wrestling ppv next week ..
- 8,916
- 472
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2009
There's still hope for the WWE.
TNA has been good the last few weeks. Prior to BFG.. it was mostly !%!*. I know, because I've watched TNA every week this whole year. Post BFG things have been good. They have done a few right things like keep Hogan out of the spotlight, put Sting in a GM type role, and push beer money as singles wrestlers. There's still crap, though. Ronnie, Bischoff, etc.
