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actually. i blame the mother. imho way too many mothers are co-signing the b.s. that their kids do/want. even in two parent households (where the father doesn't have brass balls).
Young boy wishes to join Girl Scouts
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ehhh he will get over it when he gets a lil bit older. you know hes just hypnotized by the delicious girl scout cookies you always see them sell...
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There is no precedence for allowing girls into boy scouts though...
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lol this is terrible!
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^ ^
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According to the thread, a lot of you dudes grew up without fathers. Just saying though.
Either way, kid shouldn't be allowed to join GS. I'm all for LGBT rights, but that sets a precedent.
Either way, kid shouldn't be allowed to join GS. I'm all for LGBT rights, but that sets a precedent.
His kind? Kind of harsh words coming from a girl who likes girls...
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I think Niketalk, and as a result, society as large, is painfully ignorant when it comes to gender issues and sexuality. To essentialize an activity or actions as strictly masculine or feminine can lead to a lot of problems, and I think has in a lot of instances in our society. I think it can breed ignorance and many things people assume about gender or sexual identity is rooted in fear, confusion, and as a result that is perpetuated through our society.
The issue of gender identification with children is a difficult subject, kids can easily be influenced by their parents and that can have negative results. However, it's interesting to note the outrage or confusion when a parent encourages and/or supports their child to participate in "opposite-gender" activities, yet they will routinely impose same-gender activities on their child without even thinking about it. Are young boys interested in sports, action figures, etc. because of something innate, or because the average parent will only buy "masculine" toys and push their sons into masculine activities. I see people blame the lack of fathers in a lot of family's as a cause for these "problems", yet they don't have an answer for when the father is present, and this still happens. Or their answer is "the father must have failed", which I don't agree with 100%. Or how do you reply to boys who don't have and grow up as "traditional" men, are those mothers just superior in offering a masculine side of parenting? Or does the boy pick up on "masculine" traits from society, TV, film, music, etc.? Or it something you're born with?
If this kid had a father and mother, yet still had 0 interest in EVERYTHING the Boy Scouts offered, and had 100% interest and desire to participate in the Girls Scout activities, that's wrong? If the parents force him to be in Boy Scouts and he STILL has no interest or enjoyment, is that still something wrong with the parenting or child? Or is there nothing wrong and that's simply what his interests were.
Things are not as black and white as a lot of you may believe. There are gray areas in life, and when people are so quick to make judgments and dismiss other possibilities, it can lead to a lot of problems.
The issue of gender identification with children is a difficult subject, kids can easily be influenced by their parents and that can have negative results. However, it's interesting to note the outrage or confusion when a parent encourages and/or supports their child to participate in "opposite-gender" activities, yet they will routinely impose same-gender activities on their child without even thinking about it. Are young boys interested in sports, action figures, etc. because of something innate, or because the average parent will only buy "masculine" toys and push their sons into masculine activities. I see people blame the lack of fathers in a lot of family's as a cause for these "problems", yet they don't have an answer for when the father is present, and this still happens. Or their answer is "the father must have failed", which I don't agree with 100%. Or how do you reply to boys who don't have and grow up as "traditional" men, are those mothers just superior in offering a masculine side of parenting? Or does the boy pick up on "masculine" traits from society, TV, film, music, etc.? Or it something you're born with?
If this kid had a father and mother, yet still had 0 interest in EVERYTHING the Boy Scouts offered, and had 100% interest and desire to participate in the Girls Scout activities, that's wrong? If the parents force him to be in Boy Scouts and he STILL has no interest or enjoyment, is that still something wrong with the parenting or child? Or is there nothing wrong and that's simply what his interests were.
Things are not as black and white as a lot of you may believe. There are gray areas in life, and when people are so quick to make judgments and dismiss other possibilities, it can lead to a lot of problems.
Pathos
formerly retrosan
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its not i used to work/be in 4H, just a bunch of hillbillies
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you asked a gang of questions. what are the answers?
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So true, things are and have gotten way out of control in today's world.
PREACH! Stop all this trying to please every nonsense. Its too far out of hand to turn back now.
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you asked a gang of questions. what are the answers?
My questions are meant to be answers by others. Judging by my comments my answers should be clear, I think people have ignorant and out-dated views of gender roles and issues. A boy being interested in "girl" activities doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the boy, the parents, or our society. It's increasingly difficult to label "right or wrong" when you have to first define what constitutes "masculine" or "feminine" activities. It's there that I believe we begin the trouble. To essentialize, that is, to treat a trait or characteristic as a reflection of an entire group, isn't fair, and from that we can have issues when things do not conform to our "normal" expectations. How do you define normal? What makes your normality the right one? and what makes another's automatically wrong? By no means do I extend this argument to ALL possibilities, but I think the argument is fair to make when there's such a quick dismissal of all things non-normal, which I find dangerous. I think there's a gray area, that things aren't as black and white as people assume, and that a boy who doesn't like to participate in Boy Scout activities is somehow wrong.
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So the kid doesn't want to join a sausage fest and get raped by the scout leader, I don't blame him.
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I hate it when parents pull this crud. They're too lazy to train their kid by their gender. What kind of parent would let their son play with girl junk and wear girl clothes? It messes him up psychologically, because if they continue the habit as a teen, they'll eventually see sex scenes and movies where boy+girl=bang bang. Then they'll become attracted to guys because they don't know anything about sexuality. Eventually, he'll go around the bases and some guy will discover that he's a dude.
Summarized, a big can of worms.
Summarized, a big can of worms.
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My questions are meant to be answers by others. Judging by my comments my answers should be clear, I think people have ignorant and out-dated views of gender roles and issues. A boy being interested in "girl" activities doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the boy, the parents, or our society. It's increasingly difficult to label "right or wrong" when you have to first define what constitutes "masculine" or "feminine" activities. It's there that I believe we begin the trouble. To essentialize, that is, to treat a trait or characteristic as a reflection of an entire group, isn't fair, and from that we can have issues when things do not conform to our "normal" expectations. How do you define normal? What makes your normality the right one? and what makes another's automatically wrong? By no means do I extend this argument to ALL possibilities, but I think the argument is fair to make when there's such a quick dismissal of all things non-normal, which I find dangerous. I think there's a gray area, that things aren't as black and white as people assume, and that a boy who doesn't like to participate in Boy Scout activities is somehow wrong.
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Let that boy cook
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this situation is just a mess
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the mom could get it
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first is the girls scouts...then he wants to use the ladies bathroom and get in free on ladies nite...
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i dont really see the harshness on that, not what i meant but i'm not transgendered, so i wouldn't group myself in there with the kid in that aspect, but i guess you're right given the LGBT label, i guess i should have said my kind
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Let that boy cook.
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People join the boyscouts at 17?
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I agree his interest doesn't reflect wrong doing by society or his mother, but to say there isn't anything going on with him is too extreme. Most people don't wanna transform into the opposite sex, that's a taboo created by society. So by history's definition, there would be something wrong with him.
Most people define normal on a cultural basis. A girl getting pleasure from shopping is normal here, while a girl without fingertips is normal in some cultures. Normal, i would say, is the majority of people's action, anything that conforms to societies way of thinking or being. We create what's normal and whats not, Majority rules so cutting the fingertips of little girls is normal to specific culture since its followed by most people while a girl with all fingertips is consider the abnormal one. Why would majority of the people be wrong right? So that's where i believe normality is created.
I see and understand your definition of normality, but I don't necessarily agree that it's a good thing. Not sure if you do or not, or whether you're just offering an explanation. We're speaking primarily in an American conversation, we have our morals, values, and it's too complex to discuss other cultures in a direct example of an American issue. Even within the U.S., our standards and values change, what was normal 100 years ago may not be normal now, and what is normal now might be considered "wrong" in 50 years. Not every advancement or change is negative, which is where I have a problem on NT... anything outside of the "norm" is immediately deemed to be wrong, which I disagree with. Tradition or normality isn't automatically 100% positive or infallible.
You and I have gone back and forth a few times I recall, so I expected that kind of reaction. My issue in this particular instance is when people deal with extremes. That if a boy doesn't want to do everything deemed "masculine" and would prefer to do something "feminine" that he's automatically a failure in society and his parents should be shunned. If you want to say it's abnormal for a boy to be interested in "girl" activities, then the problem is people make the assumption that as a boy he'll be interested in whatever is considered "masculine". If he and his parents make the attempt to establish "masculine" interests and he is still disinterested, what's the response? That he or the parent has failed even though they've tried? That it's society's fault for the tolerance? I don't consider that a failure necessarily. Could there be a situation in which parents have intentionally force-fed a kid into an opposite-gendered role to make some grand point to society? Probably, and those are probably bad parents. But again, I don't like speaking in extreme generalizations, I just think most people don't admit to the possibility of something outside their comfort zone, maybe... perhaps.. being the "right" thing for their kid and their situation.
Another issue I have is the essentialism of "masculine" and "feminine". To isolate and categorize certain activities, beliefs, etc. as for men or women can be problematic. So saying that as a man you must be the bread winner or as a woman you must be home all day to take care of the kids, is an unfair and illogical stance. Not to say that you can't have those scenarios in your life, but that part of being a woman is cooking every meal and cleaning the house everyday, and that if a man likes to cook, he's deemed to have "feminine" interests and that it's a negative quality. That I have an issue with. It doesn't affect my life in a major way, I love to cook and if someone says that's feminine, then OK, it doesn't change my belief. But if you're punishing a boy for having an interest in cooking at a young age because it's too "girly", then there's a problem.
This is applicable to a number of things in our society, though. The same essentialism I disagree with for gender, is also applied to race, class, etc. If someone suggested that to be a part of a certain ethnicity means that you have innate skills or interests, and that to deviate outside of that is abnormal, I would have an issue with that.
Remy LeBeau
formerly carbon16
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Originally Posted by Crispy Cream
Let that boy cook
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