09 Boxing Thread:: 12/12 Diaz.vs.Malignaggi HBO/Bradley.vs.Peterson Showtime

[eagle 0n]

Originally Posted by dako akong otin

My reason is different from most of you guys from the states though. The Manny stans basically hate on other pinoy boxers not named Manny if they don't win a big fight. When Gorres lost to Montiel, and had that draw against Darchinyan... manny stans here were saying "he'll never be Manny, gorres is a loser, he should be like manny, etc.. Same thing when Amonsot lost to Katsidis, same when Banal lost to Rafa Concepcion... all the Manny comparisons come out. Even regarding personality.. "Nonito is so arrogant, he should be humble like Manny" total BS. Sad thing is, most of Nonito Donaire haters are Pinoy (manny stans) . Actually i think ALL of nonito haters are pinoy. I haven't met an Amercian boxing fan who hates Nonito... or even call him arrogant.. lol.

Manny's success seems to have spoiled alot ppl in the PI.

But its no different than when the Lakers, Yankees, or Cowboys win a 'chip in their respective sports. A select portion of fans from those teams feel asense of entitlement.

That being said, this old filipino head my boxing gym Frank (supposedly he used to help train Luisito Espinosa) hates Pac

. Dude is mad cuz before the 2nd or 3rd Morales fight Pac was supposed to govisit his family and have dinner. Guess Manny flaked and didn't give him a reason.

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

Originally Posted by bobby1109

I'm pulling for Agbeko because I like him as a fighter and I'm hoping for a unification with Hasegawa.

you still got Urango he has a belt.

Yea, which he claimed over the mighty Herman Ngoudjo

. Now if Urangowould take out a Nate Campbell, or a Timothy Bradley, or someone else who establishes themselves on that level, then i might be able to get excited about it.

 

[uclamike]

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

manny is scared to fight cotto at full strength, so he wants cotto to weaken himself before they get in the ring.

i wouldnt go that far i think its more roach then manny

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

yeah not manny himself, but his team.

 

[kingjames23]

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

manny is scared to fight cotto at full strength, so he wants cotto to weaken himself before they get in the ring.

So Cotto weighs in at 146 for Clottey but he's going to be a dead man at 145. Is that right?

I was explaining for MaxElite why Pacquiao wouldn't fight Cotto at 147, that is the explanation, period.

My statement has hyperoble, yes.
Your explanation of him fighting at 145 vs 147 was pretty much a flame saying "he's scared of Cotto at full strength'. If this fight was 143 I'd find that a more reasonable statement But I really don't think 145 is going to make that much of a difference. That's not going to be the reason Manny wins this fight (should he win). 145 is more than fair.

I can't wait for this fight and could go either way. Either side should get full credit should they win.

Let me just say Manny isn't the GOAT, God, the messiah, or anything of the sort.

I disagree. The weight class is 147 lbs. The title that Cotto holds and they will be fighting for is at 147 lbs. Why does Cotto have to go down in weight to make it "fair"? If the weight isn't a big issue, why were they so hell bent on making this fight below 147? If they WERENT scared of fighting Cotto at 147, then why not just let Cotto weigh what he wants and Manny can come in under weight? If the weight is not a big deal and they're not scared of Cotto at 147, then why did Roach say he will not let Manny fight ANYBODY other than Oscar at 147? The fact is they absolutely did not want to fight Cotto at 147 and tried to make him fight at an absurd 143. Cotto's camp wouldn't bite so Manny's camp backed off a little but still forced Cotto to come down in weight. Manny's people are scared to fight at 147, PERIOD. No flame, it it what it is.

The weight class is 140+-147. It's one pound, that isn't going to cripple Cotto and make this a cake walk while Manny has to continuouslystep out and fighting Cotto well above where he should be fighting. Roach doesn't want Manny at 147 unless it's the perfect match-up just because ofhow much weight Manny would have to carry and he'd be facing naturally much larger fighters that could wear Manny down. DLH was a dead man at 147 which iswhy that fight happened. It really doesn't matter to me if the belt is on the line make it a 147 title fight or 145 non-title fight just to make peoplehappy, it's whatever.

Manny is a natural lightweight and I guess I just have a problem saying that he's scared to fight at that when he has come from 105 now to 145. Manny isstepping out to face very good fighters. He is screwed because a lot of the best fighters he hasn't faced yet are welterweights. You don't see Cotto,PBF going to 154 to fight elite fighters like Paul Williams . Manny has done nothing but step out and win but people still give him +!%%.

What a shock Manny's camp wanted to make the fight favor Manny? Obviously they would try to gain any advantage they could but that doesn't mattersince they agreed to 145. Manny is moving much more out of his "comfort zone" than Cotto is so I guess I really don't see the huge issueeveryone has.

 

[lolztrunkz]

Found some funny suggestions for the name of the Cotto-Pac fight...

Fully Hydrated..

Brothers in Arums

 

[marionthebarberian]

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

KingJames23 wrote:

---

TheProfessorOfPugilism wrote:

---

KingJames23 wrote:

---

TheProfessorOfPugilism wrote:

---

manny is scared to fight cotto at full strength, so he wants cotto to weaken himself before they get in the ring.

So Cotto weighs in at 146 for Clottey but he's going to be a dead man at 145. Is that right?

I was explaining for MaxElite why Pacquiao wouldn't fight Cotto at 147, that is the explanation, period.



My statement has hyperoble, yes.


Your explanation of him fighting at 145 vs 147 was pretty much a flame saying "he's scared of Cotto at full strength'. If this fight was 143
I'd find that a more reasonable statement But I really don't think 145 is going to make that much of a difference. That's not going to be the
reason Manny wins this fight (should he win). 145 is more than fair.




I can't wait for this fight and could go either way. Either side should get full credit should they win.




Let me just say Manny isn't the GOAT, God, the messiah, or anything of the sort.





I disagree. The weight class is 147 lbs. The title that Cotto holds and they will be fighting for is at 147 lbs. Why does Cotto have to go down
in weight to make it "fair"? If the weight isn't a big issue, why were they so hell bent on making this fight below 147? If they WERENT scared
of fighting Cotto at 147, then why not just let Cotto weigh what he wants and Manny can come in under weight? If the weight is not a big deal and they're
not scared of Cotto at 147, then why did Roach say he will not let Manny fight ANYBODY other than Oscar at 147? The fact is they absolutely did not want to
fight Cotto at 147 and tried to make him fight at an absurd 143. Cotto's camp wouldn't bite so Manny's camp backed off a little but still forced
Cotto to come down in weight. Manny's people are scared to fight at 147, PERIOD. No flame, it it what it is.




The weight class is 140+-147. It's one pound, that isn't going to cripple Cotto and make this a cake walk while Manny has to continuously step out and fighting Cotto well above where he should be fighting. Roach doesn't want Manny at 147 unless it's the perfect match-up just because of how much weight Manny would have to carry and he'd be facing naturally much larger fighters that could wear Manny down. DLH was a dead man at 147 which is why that fight happened. It really doesn't matter to me if the belt is on the line make it a 147 title fight or 145 non-title fight just to make people happy, it's whatever.

Manny is a natural lightweight and I guess I just have a problem saying that he's scared to fight at that when he has come from 105 now to 145. Manny is stepping out to face very good fighters. He is screwed because a lot of the best fighters he hasn't faced yet are welterweights. You don't see Cotto, PBF going to 154 to fight elite fighters like Paul Williams . Manny has done nothing but step out and win but people still give him +!%%.

What a shock Manny's camp wanted to make the fight favor Manny? Obviously they would try to gain any advantage they could but that doesn't matter since they agreed to 145. Manny is moving much more out of his "comfort zone" than Cotto is so I guess I really don't see the huge issue everyone has.





MAC = Champion.

how is person A going to be the champion but has to settle for persons b rules?

 

[sriracha hot sauce]

145 is fair. Dont act like you just started watching boxing yesterday, because in any case of one fighter having more leverage, fans, money, etc that fighterwill always have the pull. Manny being the best P4P in the sport can have the catchweight fight his management wants. It is part of the business, and you allknow it. As in the case of the JMM vs PBF fight, PBF has brings in more money and is the bigger draw, therefore, JMM has to move up. It sucks, but it willalways be part of the sport. To say Manny is scared to fight at 147 is ******ed. It is more than just fighting, the business and politics is what makes boxingthe sport it is.

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

Manny's team IS scared of him fighting at 147. Roach himself pretty much said it.

BTW PBF-JMM is different because there is no title at stake.

And 145 is NOT fair. Manny being the draw should get the lions share of the money and determinte ring size or glove choices if he wants, thats common andacceptable. But MAC is the CHAMPION of the 147 lb division. How is Manny & his team going to come into Cotto's weight class, fight for Cotto'stitle, and tell him that he actually can't fight at the weight of the title he is defending? Manny wants to make the champ fight at 145? Fine, make it anon-title fight then so even if he wins there is no "now he's won a belt in X amount of weight classes" talk. If it was Manny's belt and hewanted the fight at a catchweight, fine. They want to come after his belt they need to play by his rules. Making the champ make sacrificies in weight for thechallenger is *!!$$@#!. It was *!!$$@#! when Sugar Ray Leonard did it to Donny Lalonde, and its *!!$$@#! now.

 

[marionthebarberian]

and didnt pac say, he did not want to fight MAC above 143?

 

[tcerda]

Originally Posted by KingJames23

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

manny is scared to fight cotto at full strength, so he wants cotto to weaken himself before they get in the ring.

So Cotto weighs in at 146 for Clottey but he's going to be a dead man at 145. Is that right?

Exactly what I was thinking. I might hurt some feelings on here butefff it! Here goes. Everybody makes a big deal about Pacman trying to make a catch weight.

Which is when both fighters meet EACHOTHER halfway in weight. (Usually how thisworks) Now If Pacman was trying to get Cotto down to 141, maybe yall might have an argument. Mind you Pacquiao was fighting at 130 less than 2 years ago andnow is gonna fight at 145. I dont understand how Cotto is the one getting "BENT OVER". My man KingJames23 is on point. How the hell is 1pound gonna make a difference for Cotto. Pacman is already the naturally smaller man. PLs stop complaining people.

 

[tcerda]

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

Manny's team IS scared of him fighting at 147. Roach himself pretty much said it.

BTW PBF-JMM is different because there is no title at stake.

And 145 is NOT fair. Manny being the draw should get the lions share of the money and determinte ring size or glove choices if he wants, thats common and acceptable. But MAC is the CHAMPION of the 147 lb division. How is Manny & his team going to come into Cotto's weight class, fight for Cotto's title, and tell him that he actually can't fight at the weight of the title he is defending? Manny wants to make the champ fight at 145? Fine, make it a non-title fight then so even if he wins there is no "now he's won a belt in X amount of weight classes" talk. If it was Manny's belt and he wanted the fight at a catchweight, fine. They want to come after his belt they need to play by his rules. Making the champ make sacrificies in weight for the challenger is *!!$$@#!. It was *!!$$@#! when Sugar Ray Leonard did it to Donny Lalonde, and its *!!$$@#! now.

145 IS the weight of the title he is defending. 147 is just the limit dude.
A welterweight boxer weighs in at between 140 pounds (63.5 kg) and 147 pounds (66.7 kg).

 

[eagle 0n]

Pac/Cotto have no say if the fight is a title/non-title fight.

I think the sanctioning bodies mandate it since the fight technically within the welterweight limit.

Not 100% sure about that tho.

 

[sir rob a lot]

My man KingJames23 is on point. How the hell is 1 pound gonna make a difference for Cotto.
Has anyone ever fought and had to make weight?

1 pound is a very big difference, especially mentally. Cotto right now is probably 170-175 lbs. Pac is probably somewhere around 155. Sometimes fightersweigh underneath the actual weight limit to show they didn't have difficulty making the wieght (remember DLH weighed 145, when he fought Pac). Its all mindgames, and most of the time it doesnt work. Cotto was having trouble making 140 towards the end of his reign at Jr. Welterweight, and that is why Pac and histeam wanted to bring the fight closer that weight limit.

 

[tcerda]

Originally Posted by Sir Rob A Lot

My man KingJames23 is on point. How the hell is 1 pound gonna make a difference for Cotto.

Has anyone ever fought and had to make weight?

1 pound is a very big difference, especially mentally. Cotto right now is probably 170-175 lbs. Pac is probably somewhere around 155. Sometimes fighters weigh underneath the actual weight limit to show they didn't have difficulty making the wieght (remember DLH weighed 145, when he fought Pac). Its all mind games, and most of the time it doesnt work. Cotto was having trouble making 140 towards the end of his reign at Jr. Welterweight, and that is why Pac and his team wanted to bring the fight closer that weight limit.

Manny is gaining 5 pounds more than his last fight and Miguel has to lose 1 pound. Come on dude, be real. And Delahoya is bigger than Cotto andhasnt weighed 145 lbs for a fight in like 7 or more years. He usually fights at 154 and has even fought at 160 a couple of times. U cant make that comparison.

 

[mayhemmonkey000]

Originally Posted by Sir Rob A Lot

My man KingJames23 is on point. How the hell is 1 pound gonna make a difference for Cotto.

Has anyone ever fought and had to make weight?

1 pound is a very big difference, especially mentally. Cotto right now is probably 170-175 lbs. Pac is probably somewhere around 155. Sometimes fighters weigh underneath the actual weight limit to show they didn't have difficulty making the wieght (remember DLH weighed 145, when he fought Pac). Its all mind games, and most of the time it doesnt work. Cotto was having trouble making 140 towards the end of his reign at Jr. Welterweight, and that is why Pac and his team wanted to bring the fight closer that weight limit.

The only time I've seen Cotto drained was at 140. I've had to make weight for wrestling and kickboxing and a pound wasn't a hugedifference to me physically. It's a bit of a +@%+*, but I doubt he's gonna be in the same condition he would be where we've seen him completelydrained at 140.

 

[sir rob a lot]

Moving Up is easier than moving down. Cut 20 pounds......then have someone tell you gotta do a couple pounds more. No doubt MAC will make the weight....I justfind it funny that Pac's people is trying to make MAC move down to a weight he hasn't reached in 3 years. Not to mention, with his belt on the line.

http://www.boxrec.com/lis...boxer&human_id=33535
^^MAC hasn't weighed 145 since he fought Mallanaggi....he was Jr. Welter at that time.

 

[eagle 0n]

I doubt Cotto walks around at 175 lbs.

 

[uclamike]

As many expected, WBO welterweight champion Miguel Cotto extended his contract with Top Rank as part of the deal to land a mega-fight with Manny Pacquiao for November 14 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Several months ago, Cotto became angry with Top Rank's support of Antonio Margarito, who had his license revoked by the California State Athletic Commission. He told outlets that he would explore his options at the end of the year, when his contract was expected to run out.

A recent game of golf in Puerto Rico with Oscar De La Hoya, owner of Golden Boy Promotions, heated up rumors that Cotto might leave Top Rank at the end of the year.

"We have a contract extension, which was one of the arrangements made as part of the negotiations for the Pacquiao fight," Arum told Primera Hora.

Cotto's new deal is expected to expire at the end of 2011.

i guess thats why arum pushed for the pacman fight

 

[sir rob a lot]

I think he's up there....especially if he's not in camp prepping for a fight.

I know he still goes to the gym but if gets to 160 on fight nights, I think he could be walking around 170-175.

 

[jagshemash]

There are some articles coming out of PR where Cotto and/or his lawyer have stated the WBO title will not be on the line.

EDIT:
Original (in Spanish):
http://www.notifight.com/...o_deben_pagar_el_fee.php

Translated (Poorly):
http://translate.google.c...o_deben_pagar_el_fee.php

In an interesting note of super Carlos Narváez Rosario, the newspaper "El Vocero" of Puerto Rico, released Tuesday, the president of the World Boxing Organization (OMB), Francisco Valcarcel, was emphatic in stating that even the title or not Welter from OMB to the filipino Manny Pacquiao, the next November 14th, the Puerto Rican champion Miguel Cotto OMB must pay a sanction fee of 3% of the stock exchange up to $ 150 thousand dollars.

It is estimated that Cotto will receive approximately $ 15 million, as total of their fees in his fight with Pacquiao, among the 12 million gross of the bag and another 3 million on sales of PPV.

"The fight can be 140 pounds or 147 and we will be fighting Cotto for the title," said El Vocero Valcárcel. "Since I spoke with Bob Arum that while we were in New Jersey. I think the only one who does not want to fight for the title is Peñagarícano Gabriel, attorney for Cotto. But they have to pay the 'fee' in any way. I do not know what the approach Peñagarícano on the matter and if you do as a lawyer and as Secretary of the Council (World Boxing Council) ... You must pay the penalty in any form. They need our approval to fight. For us, the title is at stake in this fight, he is our champion and has to pay the penalty. "

The memo also suggested that Narváez Rosario Peñagarícano will be meeting with Valcárcel Wednesday, seeking to discuss these discrepancies. "This will be a fight outside title. Do not be exhibiting, "said Peñagarícano El Vocero. "Neither is entering discussions with the OMB."

 

[theprofessorofpugilism]

Originally Posted by TCERDA

Originally Posted by TheProfessorOfPugilism

Manny's team IS scared of him fighting at 147. Roach himself pretty much said it.

BTW PBF-JMM is different because there is no title at stake.

And 145 is NOT fair. Manny being the draw should get the lions share of the money and determinte ring size or glove choices if he wants, thats common and acceptable. But MAC is the CHAMPION of the 147 lb division. How is Manny & his team going to come into Cotto's weight class, fight for Cotto's title, and tell him that he actually can't fight at the weight of the title he is defending? Manny wants to make the champ fight at 145? Fine, make it a non-title fight then so even if he wins there is no "now he's won a belt in X amount of weight classes" talk. If it was Manny's belt and he wanted the fight at a catchweight, fine. They want to come after his belt they need to play by his rules. Making the champ make sacrificies in weight for the challenger is *!!$$@#!. It was *!!$$@#! when Sugar Ray Leonard did it to Donny Lalonde, and its *!!$$@#! now.

145 IS the weight of the title he is defending. 147 is just the limit dude.
A welterweight boxer weighs in at between 140 pounds (63.5 kg) and 147 pounds (66.7 kg).

i know 147 is the limit, and thats exactly my point. His belt allows him to defend it at any weight up to 147 lbs. Forcing this to be at 145 isnot allowing him to defend it properly. And 1 or 2 extra pounds is a HUGE deal for these guys that rehydrate 15+ pounds in a single day and then are supposedto fight. And Manny doesn't have to weight 145 if he doesn't want to, its just the limit. If he wants to come in at 140 or 141 he can. Floyd onlyweighed 149 for his fight against Oscar because he knew he didn't need or want the extra 5 pounds. You didn't see Floyd trying to get Oscar to getdown to 152 for that fight even though the extra weight was a clear advantage for Oscar.

Either way if the title is not on the line then its not a big deal. No problem with a catchweight for a non-title fight if it turns out to be one.

 

[mextra45]

The speed will be an issue for Cotto he;s never fought anyone this fast and he looked a step off against Clottey

 

[mextra45]

 

[sir rob a lot]

True. Timing negates speed. Cotto did fine against Judah (Im not saying Zab is as fast as Manny, but he def. is faster than MAC).