'12 Bulls

[coldcity]

WOW

 

[jmause3]

I hope Rip plays tomorrow, we need more depth. Lou and Derrick playing 43 mins

Gotta love Thibs benching Noah and Boozer to prove his point.

Did i see Korver fighting for rebounds toinght? 8 boards, i like

Now heres to praying we dont get blown out tomorrow

 

[stillatit]

Originally Posted by 10508 Cardo Jr Ln

Ya'll got the refs and ya'll commentators are hilarious 

Joe is a bum, I was callin' for Mac all 4th quarter 

Did you watch the game fam?
Joakim needs to pull his head out his !!!. Boozer just needs to go. Rip needs to play tomorrow if we're gonna win. Derrick and Luol played too many minutes tonight.

 

[zack54attack]

Glad to see our highest played player is on the bench at the end of the game. Boozer is playing like a boom again..

 

[cato312]

The starting frontcourt were highly paid guest Luvabulls tonight!

 

[gator15]

nice comeback by the bulls tonite

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by zack54attack

Glad to see our highest played player is on the bench at the end of the game. Boozer is playing like a boom again..

Sunk cost. If he can average 13 and 8, that's good enough. Asik and Taj will pick up the slack plus they get reps. 
Great W. 

 Jeff Teague had a terrible last minute. 

 

[Air273]

bulls made a huge mistake getting lozer he is the 4th best big man on the team.....they went after name when they should have signed david lee, younger and i think cheaper and if we had him now better trade asset

 

[Jim Shady]

What's up fellas, that was a great come back tonight you could tell atl wanted it bad throught the first three quarters, and yur right air273 Booz is a straight overpaid bum d rose is trying to play like a true pg this year but just like last season he's being forced to take over games , we can't do this kind of crap against Mia and get away with it

 

[hankmoody]

Originally Posted by Air273

bulls made a huge mistake getting lozer he is the 4th best big man on the team.....they went after name when they should have signed david lee, younger and i think cheaper and if we had him now better trade asset

Sunk cost man. No organization is perfect. Brewer and Korver were good pickups right, especially considering their contracts? Noah, Gibson, Asik and Rose were especially great draft picks (one trade) right?
Can't win them all. He'll never live up to his contract but he'll definitely contribute. Oh well. Every organization has made mistakes.

 

[Lake Shore Drive]

Good win.
Sloppy half hearted play from Booz and Noah, but major contributions from the bench mob.

Sunk cost. If he can average 13 and 8, that's good enough.
Not really.
While 13 and 8 are relatively good numbers I expect to see that from Taj, I need to see more from Booz.
He really needs to get it together and bring it consistently night in and night out, if not Gar needs to start making moves or prepare to amnesty his @ss in the offseason.

 

[arstyle27]

Just got home from the game...WOW......what a freaking night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[hankmoody]

You need? No you want. But he can't. So now what? Amnesty? That's in the off-season. Trade? Yea right with that contract. So, again, sunk cost. He's still the best PF on the roster. Taj, for all his strengths, just can't consistently give the team even 10 points.

 

[DownByLaw]

Amazing comeback tonight, D. Rose 

 

[antbanks81]

Amazing comeback indeed...but I'm sure we will all live longer if they stop trying to be the comeback kids everynight. We are playing with that on/off switch too often

 

[antbanks81]

Are we meeting at Joes for Fridaysgame vs Magic????

 

[Bend_The_Knee]

if boozer doesn't get his **!% together by the playoffs, amnesty easy in the offseason.

i hated the signin in the first place

 

[DownByLaw]

Originally Posted by AntBanks81

Amazing comeback indeed...but I'm sure we will all live longer if they stop trying to be the comeback kids everynight. We are playing with that on/off switch too often

I agree

 

[da r entertainment]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

I fully expected us to lose. Glad we got the win but NOT happy about this game.

We are going to see alot of games like this one, but not just from the Bulls.  The schedule for this shortened season is brutal seriously.  Bulls are in Detroit and we'll see how well they perform after all the energy used to fuel that comeback last night.  I like how Thibs sat both Booz & Noah last night because neither were performing well.

 

[cato312]

Maybe it's just me, but why does Noah have such underwhelming performances against the Hawks? It seems that Horford always gets the best of their individual matchups.

Hopefully Rip plays tonight and Booz bounces back and plays well.

 

[cato312]

[h2][/h2]

[h2]Trade Monta Ellis to Chicago for a rugged defender? Just makes too much sense to ever happen[/h2]
Posted by Tim Kawakami on January 4th, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Categorized as NBA, Warriors

If two teams were ever set up to make a big, bold trade that would help both and wouldn’t have too much risk of seriously messing up whatever good things they’ve got going on, it’s the Warriors and Bulls.

* They’re in different conferences, so no worries about trading a star to somebody who might prove you wrong multiple times a year and often in the playoffs.

* The two teams have totally different (realistic) short-term goals.

The Bulls can win a title this season, if they make the right addition or two.

The Warriors… not so much.

* They have totally different roster compositions and uniquely different weaknesses that are the opposite of each other.

Actually, this is where the Warriors and Bulls match-up most perfectly.

–The Warriors need an efficient, high-quality, rugged big defensive player, preferably one who can score on the low post, but mostly a defensive-minded force.

The GSWs can afford to peel away one of their top scorers if they get the right kind of player in return.

They’re overloaded with talented scoring players who aren’t very good on defense, though Mark Jackson keeps saying that he can get them to play D.
(Jackson has adjusted to this by piping in several new defensive-minded players–Brandon Rush, Dominic McGuire, Kwame Brown–but that has dragged the GSW scoring pace down faster than it has brought up the D, so far.

(What the Warriors need to do: Get a defensive-minded player who is also one of their better all-around players, which isn’t possible when their best three players are Curry, Ellis and Lee.)

Meanwhile, the Bulls need a wing player who can create his own shot and score in bunches when their offensive stalls.

The Bulls are overloaded with fierce defensive big men who can’t score, though coach Tom Thibodeau believes he can get them to.

The Bulls have Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, Omer Asik & Luol Deng, just to name four tough-minded C/Fs. They probably only need 3.

Major point of emphasis: The Bulls go into more serious scoring droughts than any team that good should experience; for the most recent example, I point you to their 26-point first half against Atlanta last night.

And they’re also so good (example: coming back to beat Atlanta 76-74 that just one more prolific scorer could tilt everything. (But they still shot only 33.8% in the game.)

Derrick Rose needs someone to help carry the load, maybe for 7 or 8 minutes at a time, maybe for a whole game if things are going right.

And it might not be Rip Hamilton (too old and creaky), Kyle Korver (very guardable) or Ronnie Brewer (please).

* The conclusion: Monta Ellis can be the Bulls’ version of Vinnie Johnson or Andrew Toney, lights-out scorers who were key pieces of title runs when used properly and judiciously.

Or Ellis could balance out Rose’s responsibilities the way Jannero Pargo helped out Chris Paul for a playoff run or two in New Orleans a few years back. Or the way Ben Gordon used to be so dangerous for the Bulls before he left as a free agent.

Ellis, as we all know, can be as explosive as any of those guys, can get his shot, and can occasionally be a team’s entire offense for many, many possessions.

With a team as stocked as the Bulls, Ellis could be the last piece.

With the Warriors, he’s an entertaining extravagance and an ever-lasting reason they can finish in 11th place in the West (but not get a top-4 pick), year after year.

I think Joe Lacob & Co. have essentially decided that Stephen Curry is the main guy, if they have to choose. It’s the right decision.

So the Warriors need to fit pieces alongside Curry, not guys who exaggerate his deficiencies. As has been mentioned a million times: The Ellis/Curry backcourt is, was and probably always will be a recipe for .500 or worse.

(Lacob assuredly doesn’t agree with that last conclusion, and neither does Mark Jackson, but oh well. They will prove me wrong or they will keep failing to make the playoffs, one or the other.)
Two questions if the Warriors and Bulls start talking seriously:

–Who plays shooting guard if the Warriors trade Ellis and don’t get one back? I’d suggest that Brandon Rush & Klay Thompson can split some of those minutes, and that eventually the GSWs would have to draft a bigger scoring guard who meshes better with Curry, anyway.

Not a glaring problem from the Warriors’ side, I’d think. It’s a ticket-selling question, because Ellis is box-office candy, but not a long-term win-games problem.

–Can Ellis fit in with Chicago’s defense-first style? OK, Ellis might not quite fit in coach Thibodeau’s big picture, but that’s part of the point, too.
When you’re going for a title, and you keep running into the same problem, you have to bend a little on the philosophical stand to help solve the problem.

I think Ellis is almost ideal for Chicago, if he just half-way buys into the defensive system and if the Bulls fit him in as a scoring infusion to whom they’d have to give some defensive leeway.

What kind of deal could be made? I have some suggestions, as you knew I would…

* The intriguing deal: Ellis for Joakim Noah. You can do this deal straight-up salary-wise.

If I’m the GSWs, I’d do this trade in a heartbeat–Noah isn’t a perfect player, but he’s an incredible defensive presence and can guard the best centers and power forwards every night you ask him to.

In fact, I’ve heard that the teams had very general conversations involving Ellis and Noah around draft time last year; the conversations didn’t go far, but the names were broached.

Maybe the Bulls wouldn’t want to move their defensive standard-bearer for a small guard. I’d understand that. (But they do have Asik to move right in there, and Gibson, too.)

Maybe Lacob couldn’t bear to do it. But again, if I was the Warriors, I’d do it.

By the way, a move for Noah matches what they tried to do in free agency, aiming for prime defensive centers Tyson Chandler and DeAndre Jordan.

Noah’s as good or better than either on the defensive side. If you have to sacrifice Ellis to do it… that’s the cost of doing business.

There’d be some questions about how Noah would fit offensively with the Warriors set up, but you can always figure that out the fly while he’s patrolling the middle and protecting the rim.
* The Warriors-favored deal: Ellis and Ekpe Udoh for Luol Deng and Omer Asik.

Deng is getting a ton of money (almost $28M for the two seasons after this one) and Asik has a lot of limitations offensively, but if the Warriors could plug those into the frontline, they’d have a very different looking team.

I doubt the Bulls would do this one–especially because I’ve heard they (rightly) value Asik as the back-up C almost as much as they do Noah.

* The Bulls-favored deal: Ellis for Taj Gibson, C.J. Watson and Ronnie Brewer.

This is a no-go for me, if I was the Warriors–you can’t trade Ellis for three non-starters. However much I respect his game, I don’t think Gibson would even start on the GSWs.

But I know Marcus Thompson II would give the GSWs the green light on this one, if he was asked.

* The one the Bulls would LOVE to do: Ellis and Udoh (or some other salary-filler) for Carlos Boozer.

Boozer has three years, $47M left after this season, he’s not very good any more, and he’s basically a short PF with a decent jump shot and a vanished post game.

He might snap back to life, but in 6 games this season, Boozer’s at or near career-low averages in points, rebounds, assists, FG% and minutes.

I doubt the Warriors would want any part of Boozer, who turned 30 recently.

* Some other combinations…
-Ellis for Deng straight up. Don’t know that the GSWs give up Ellis unless it’s for a pure PF or C, and that’s not Deng. But Deng is a classic two-way player, which the GSW do not have.

Don’t know that the Bulls would do this, since Deng is so crucial to everything they do.
-Ellis, Udoh and David Lee/Andris Biedrins for Deng and Boozer. Too much flotsam and mess on both sides to truly balance it out.

-I could point out that the expiring contract of Charlie Bell would’ve helped out the Warriors in all trade scenarios… except they used the amnesty clause on him, so that option is gone, goodbye.

And so is the amnesty option.

 

[grusumm18]

Originally Posted by CAto312

[h2][/h2]

[h2]Trade Monta Ellis to Chicago for a rugged defender? Just makes too much sense to ever happen[/h2]
Posted by Tim Kawakami on January 4th, 2012 at 12:56 pm | Categorized as NBA, Warriors

If two teams were ever set up to make a big, bold trade that would help both and wouldn’t have too much risk of seriously messing up whatever good things they’ve got going on, it’s the Warriors and Bulls.

* They’re in different conferences, so no worries about trading a star to somebody who might prove you wrong multiple times a year and often in the playoffs.

* The two teams have totally different (realistic) short-term goals.

The Bulls can win a title this season, if they make the right addition or two.

The Warriors… not so much.

* They have totally different roster compositions and uniquely different weaknesses that are the opposite of each other.

Actually, this is where the Warriors and Bulls match-up most perfectly.

–The Warriors need an efficient, high-quality, rugged big defensive player, preferably one who can score on the low post, but mostly a defensive-minded force.

The GSWs can afford to peel away one of their top scorers if they get the right kind of player in return.

They’re overloaded with talented scoring players who aren’t very good on defense, though Mark Jackson keeps saying that he can get them to play D.
(Jackson has adjusted to this by piping in several new defensive-minded players–Brandon Rush, Dominic McGuire, Kwame Brown–but that has dragged the GSW scoring pace down faster than it has brought up the D, so far.

(What the Warriors need to do: Get a defensive-minded player who is also one of their better all-around players, which isn’t possible when their best three players are Curry, Ellis and Lee.)

Meanwhile, the Bulls need a wing player who can create his own shot and score in bunches when their offensive stalls.

The Bulls are overloaded with fierce defensive big men who can’t score, though coach Tom Thibodeau believes he can get them to.

The Bulls have Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson, Omer Asik & Luol Deng, just to name four tough-minded C/Fs. They probably only need 3.

Major point of emphasis: The Bulls go into more serious scoring droughts than any team that good should experience; for the most recent example, I point you to their 26-point first half against Atlanta last night.

And they’re also so good (example: coming back to beat Atlanta 76-74 that just one more prolific scorer could tilt everything. (But they still shot only 33.8% in the game.)

Derrick Rose needs someone to help carry the load, maybe for 7 or 8 minutes at a time, maybe for a whole game if things are going right.

And it might not be Rip Hamilton (too old and creaky), Kyle Korver (very guardable) or Ronnie Brewer (please).

* The conclusion: Monta Ellis can be the Bulls’ version of Vinnie Johnson or Andrew Toney, lights-out scorers who were key pieces of title runs when used properly and judiciously.

Or Ellis could balance out Rose’s responsibilities the way Jannero Pargo helped out Chris Paul for a playoff run or two in New Orleans a few years back. Or the way Ben Gordon used to be so dangerous for the Bulls before he left as a free agent.

Ellis, as we all know, can be as explosive as any of those guys, can get his shot, and can occasionally be a team’s entire offense for many, many possessions.

With a team as stocked as the Bulls, Ellis could be the last piece.

With the Warriors, he’s an entertaining extravagance and an ever-lasting reason they can finish in 11th place in the West (but not get a top-4 pick), year after year.

I think Joe Lacob & Co. have essentially decided that Stephen Curry is the main guy, if they have to choose. It’s the right decision.

So the Warriors need to fit pieces alongside Curry, not guys who exaggerate his deficiencies. As has been mentioned a million times: The Ellis/Curry backcourt is, was and probably always will be a recipe for .500 or worse.

(Lacob assuredly doesn’t agree with that last conclusion, and neither does Mark Jackson, but oh well. They will prove me wrong or they will keep failing to make the playoffs, one or the other.)
Two questions if the Warriors and Bulls start talking seriously:

–Who plays shooting guard if the Warriors trade Ellis and don’t get one back? I’d suggest that Brandon Rush & Klay Thompson can split some of those minutes, and that eventually the GSWs would have to draft a bigger scoring guard who meshes better with Curry, anyway.

Not a glaring problem from the Warriors’ side, I’d think. It’s a ticket-selling question, because Ellis is box-office candy, but not a long-term win-games problem.

–Can Ellis fit in with Chicago’s defense-first style? OK, Ellis might not quite fit in coach Thibodeau’s big picture, but that’s part of the point, too.
When you’re going for a title, and you keep running into the same problem, you have to bend a little on the philosophical stand to help solve the problem.

I think Ellis is almost ideal for Chicago, if he just half-way buys into the defensive system and if the Bulls fit him in as a scoring infusion to whom they’d have to give some defensive leeway.

What kind of deal could be made? I have some suggestions, as you knew I would…

* The intriguing deal: Ellis for Joakim Noah. You can do this deal straight-up salary-wise.

If I’m the GSWs, I’d do this trade in a heartbeat–Noah isn’t a perfect player, but he’s an incredible defensive presence and can guard the best centers and power forwards every night you ask him to.

In fact, I’ve heard that the teams had very general conversations involving Ellis and Noah around draft time last year; the conversations didn’t go far, but the names were broached.

Maybe the Bulls wouldn’t want to move their defensive standard-bearer for a small guard. I’d understand that. (But they do have Asik to move right in there, and Gibson, too.)

Maybe Lacob couldn’t bear to do it. But again, if I was the Warriors, I’d do it.

By the way, a move for Noah matches what they tried to do in free agency, aiming for prime defensive centers Tyson Chandler and DeAndre Jordan.

Noah’s as good or better than either on the defensive side. If you have to sacrifice Ellis to do it… that’s the cost of doing business.

There’d be some questions about how Noah would fit offensively with the Warriors set up, but you can always figure that out the fly while he’s patrolling the middle and protecting the rim.
* The Warriors-favored deal: Ellis and Ekpe Udoh for Luol Deng and Omer Asik.

Deng is getting a ton of money (almost $28M for the two seasons after this one) and Asik has a lot of limitations offensively, but if the Warriors could plug those into the frontline, they’d have a very different looking team.

I doubt the Bulls would do this one–especially because I’ve heard they (rightly) value Asik as the back-up C almost as much as they do Noah.

* The Bulls-favored deal: Ellis for Taj Gibson, C.J. Watson and Ronnie Brewer.

This is a no-go for me, if I was the Warriors–you can’t trade Ellis for three non-starters. However much I respect his game, I don’t think Gibson would even start on the GSWs.

But I know Marcus Thompson II would give the GSWs the green light on this one, if he was asked.

* The one the Bulls would LOVE to do: Ellis and Udoh (or some other salary-filler) for Carlos Boozer.

Boozer has three years, $47M left after this season, he’s not very good any more, and he’s basically a short PF with a decent jump shot and a vanished post game.

He might snap back to life, but in 6 games this season, Boozer’s at or near career-low averages in points, rebounds, assists, FG% and minutes.

I doubt the Warriors would want any part of Boozer, who turned 30 recently.

* Some other combinations…
-Ellis for Deng straight up. Don’t know that the GSWs give up Ellis unless it’s for a pure PF or C, and that’s not Deng. But Deng is a classic two-way player, which the GSW do not have.

Don’t know that the Bulls would do this, since Deng is so crucial to everything they do.
-Ellis, Udoh and David Lee/Andris Biedrins for Deng and Boozer. Too much flotsam and mess on both sides to truly balance it out.

-I could point out that the expiring contract of Charlie Bell would’ve helped out the Warriors in all trade scenarios… except they used the amnesty clause on him, so that option is gone, goodbye.

And so is the amnesty option.

just about to post
fwiw, ppl here in the bay arent keen to this...ill listen to some sports talk radio later and post anything if worthy

they love monta (most of them, even with his new allegations)

they really love steph, but dude is consistently on that bum ankle...like 10 times outta 9

 

[cato312]

Originally Posted by grusumm18

Originally Posted by CAto312

[h2][/h2]

just about to post
fwiw, ppl here in the bay arent keen to this...ill listen to some sports talk radio later and post anything if worthy

they love monta (most of them, even with his new allegations)

they really love steph, but dude is consistently on that bum ankle...like 10 times outta 9

I figured this too. 

I think this is the second time that Kawakami has written about this scenario. 

 

[grusumm18]

Originally Posted by CAto312

Originally Posted by grusumm18

Originally Posted by CAto312

[h2][/h2]

just about to post
fwiw, ppl here in the bay arent keen to this...ill listen to some sports talk radio later and post anything if worthy

they love monta (most of them, even with his new allegations)

they really love steph, but dude is consistently on that bum ankle...like 10 times outta 9

I figured this too. 

I think this is the second time that Kawakami has written about this scenario. 

it is
hes kind of a mid level shock writer.  lots of speculative and "do this trade" articles (i mean he's gotta do what he has to do to keep his job)...he's the bay area sam smith

a raider exec wanted to punch him at a presser (re lane kiffin)

he always spews something on the sharks/a's/sfg

monta for booz!!!!

sign me up

 

[10508 cardo jr ln]

Originally Posted by StillAtIt

Originally Posted by 10508 Cardo Jr Ln

Ya'll got the refs and ya'll commentators are hilarious 

Joe is a bum, I was callin' for Mac all 4th quarter 

Did you watch the game fam?
Joakim needs to pull his head out his !!!. Boozer just needs to go. Rip needs to play tomorrow if we're gonna win. Derrick and Luol played too many minutes tonight.

Naw I listened to it....

 Them refs gave yall everything ya'll needed in the 2nd half, but kudos to that Defensive effort in the 4th. Im not bitter, we lost and it was on us.