2011 NBA MVP Thread

[im not you]

 @ how this is no longer a debate.
Gonna be awesome to see D-Rose get his MVP. In only his 3rd year. Amazing.

 

[im not you]

 @ how this is no longer a debate.
Gonna be awesome to see D-Rose get his MVP. In only his 3rd year. Amazing.

 

[deuce king]

Hey, no hate from me, I have Dwight at 2, so it's not like I don't like the kid or anything
  Exactly.  Nothing wrong with the silver metal.............that's why we have 2nd place. 

You're really trying to bring up his technical foul situation as a reason why he's not MVP? Like he isn't the most fouled player in the league? Many fouls going uncalled?
I'm not saying his technical foul situatation is immediate grounds for him to not be the MVP.  However, in general I will say there's a difference between a guy who is injuried and can't play in a game versus a guy for what it's worth voluntarily has himself removed from a game or even games in the future because he's unable to control himself from receiving technical fouls.  Say what you want, but as far as last night goes Derrick Rose helped his team win last night, while Dwight Howard on the other hand was nowhere to be found by the Magic as he most likely helped them lose last night.

 

[deuce king]

Hey, no hate from me, I have Dwight at 2, so it's not like I don't like the kid or anything
  Exactly.  Nothing wrong with the silver metal.............that's why we have 2nd place. 

You're really trying to bring up his technical foul situation as a reason why he's not MVP? Like he isn't the most fouled player in the league? Many fouls going uncalled?
I'm not saying his technical foul situatation is immediate grounds for him to not be the MVP.  However, in general I will say there's a difference between a guy who is injuried and can't play in a game versus a guy for what it's worth voluntarily has himself removed from a game or even games in the future because he's unable to control himself from receiving technical fouls.  Say what you want, but as far as last night goes Derrick Rose helped his team win last night, while Dwight Howard on the other hand was nowhere to be found by the Magic as he most likely helped them lose last night.

 

[arstyle27]

The fact that Derrick is even in this argument speaks volumes about the work ethic the young guy has. I never thought he would be this good, especially not this quick. He is getting better and better, and he's only 22!

 

[arstyle27]

The fact that Derrick is even in this argument speaks volumes about the work ethic the young guy has. I never thought he would be this good, especially not this quick. He is getting better and better, and he's only 22!

 

[dland24]

Originally Posted by CP1708

From Mark Stein

EAST MVP OF THE SECOND TRIMESTER
Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls

Rose​

Didn't the Eastern Conference coaches already decide this one for us? Doesn't the fact that Chicago finds itself still alive for the East's top seed -- after Carlos Boozer (1 and Joakim Noah (31) both lost a mess of games to injury and only Rose represented the Bulls in the All-Star Game -- clinch D-Rose as the East's best heading into the season's final third?

Of course not.

Surely by now you know that pretty much nothing in this league is as polarizing as an MVP debate. The latest evidence is the rising chorus you hear these days from folks seemingly straining to list all the reasons why Rose shouldn't be the MVP. You might have expected the opposite since the Rose-led Bulls have overcome their injuries, youth and newness as a group to hang with the Celtics and Heat for 60 games. But you'll see a new labor deal before you see widespread MVP agreement at this stage of the season. It's the NBA way.

That's partly because MVP is not a clearly defined award, true, but I know my definition. I forever want to give it to the guy who's having the best season, which I calculate by factoring in team success relative to preseason expectations in conjunction with the individual numbers and my own subjective impressions to break deadlocks.

Using those guidelines, I have zero hesitation presenting Rose as the MVP front-runner at this juncture, even as I'm forced to acknowledge that two individual powerhouses in his conference -- LeBron James and Dwight Howard -- can legitimately claim to be playing at higher levels of efficiency than Rose on teams essentially right there with the Bulls in the standings.

I simply can't overlook Rose's long stretches without one of his top two teammates ... or the fact that the Bulls have been starting a shooting guard (Keith Bogans) who averages 3.9 points per game ... or how Rose has become a better finisher (and foul magnet) at the bucket while also stepping up to drain 87 triples this season after hitting just 32 3-pointers in his first two NBA seasons combined.

On this scorecard, Rose is having a better season so far than James, Howard and anyone else you want to nominate from the West. I certainly can't dispute that Chicago's defense, as orchestrated by rookie head coach Tom Thibodeau and stabilized by the ageless Kurt Thomas when Noah went down, is as important to the Bulls' fortunes as Rose's increasingly versatile O. But I also know that there's no stat to measure the intangible impact Rose has had in keeping the Bulls' self-belief at an elite level no matter which of their All-Star-caliber big men was out.

LeBron thus has to settle for second here, tempting as it is to conclude that he deserves to be No. 1 among East MVP candidates when you factor in the historic collapse of his old team in Cleveland -- no team has ever gone from the league's best record to the worst in one season like the Cavs are threatening -- along with how much he's done to raise Miami's ceiling.

Bold #1- Why does team success need to be relative to the preseason expectations?  Isnt this kind of the same thing as the "if you take x player off of z team" argument, how good is the team?  I mean, its all speculation and conjecture right?  Just because the Heat and Magic were expected to be top teams shouldnt make Howard and Bron less deserving of the award.  
Bold #2- This is extremely debatable.  In fact, you can make a much better case of Bron having a better statistical season than Rose.  This is not to mention that Bron's defense is exponentially better than Rose's.

Bold #3- Is there any proof of this?  Link?  Story?  Im not saying this absolutely is not true, but I would tend to think that the head coach is more responsible for this than a soft spoken player.

 

[dland24]

Originally Posted by CP1708

From Mark Stein

EAST MVP OF THE SECOND TRIMESTER
Derrick Rose, Chicago Bulls

Rose​

Didn't the Eastern Conference coaches already decide this one for us? Doesn't the fact that Chicago finds itself still alive for the East's top seed -- after Carlos Boozer (1 and Joakim Noah (31) both lost a mess of games to injury and only Rose represented the Bulls in the All-Star Game -- clinch D-Rose as the East's best heading into the season's final third?

Of course not.

Surely by now you know that pretty much nothing in this league is as polarizing as an MVP debate. The latest evidence is the rising chorus you hear these days from folks seemingly straining to list all the reasons why Rose shouldn't be the MVP. You might have expected the opposite since the Rose-led Bulls have overcome their injuries, youth and newness as a group to hang with the Celtics and Heat for 60 games. But you'll see a new labor deal before you see widespread MVP agreement at this stage of the season. It's the NBA way.

That's partly because MVP is not a clearly defined award, true, but I know my definition. I forever want to give it to the guy who's having the best season, which I calculate by factoring in team success relative to preseason expectations in conjunction with the individual numbers and my own subjective impressions to break deadlocks.

Using those guidelines, I have zero hesitation presenting Rose as the MVP front-runner at this juncture, even as I'm forced to acknowledge that two individual powerhouses in his conference -- LeBron James and Dwight Howard -- can legitimately claim to be playing at higher levels of efficiency than Rose on teams essentially right there with the Bulls in the standings.

I simply can't overlook Rose's long stretches without one of his top two teammates ... or the fact that the Bulls have been starting a shooting guard (Keith Bogans) who averages 3.9 points per game ... or how Rose has become a better finisher (and foul magnet) at the bucket while also stepping up to drain 87 triples this season after hitting just 32 3-pointers in his first two NBA seasons combined.

On this scorecard, Rose is having a better season so far than James, Howard and anyone else you want to nominate from the West. I certainly can't dispute that Chicago's defense, as orchestrated by rookie head coach Tom Thibodeau and stabilized by the ageless Kurt Thomas when Noah went down, is as important to the Bulls' fortunes as Rose's increasingly versatile O. But I also know that there's no stat to measure the intangible impact Rose has had in keeping the Bulls' self-belief at an elite level no matter which of their All-Star-caliber big men was out.

LeBron thus has to settle for second here, tempting as it is to conclude that he deserves to be No. 1 among East MVP candidates when you factor in the historic collapse of his old team in Cleveland -- no team has ever gone from the league's best record to the worst in one season like the Cavs are threatening -- along with how much he's done to raise Miami's ceiling.

Bold #1- Why does team success need to be relative to the preseason expectations?  Isnt this kind of the same thing as the "if you take x player off of z team" argument, how good is the team?  I mean, its all speculation and conjecture right?  Just because the Heat and Magic were expected to be top teams shouldnt make Howard and Bron less deserving of the award.  
Bold #2- This is extremely debatable.  In fact, you can make a much better case of Bron having a better statistical season than Rose.  This is not to mention that Bron's defense is exponentially better than Rose's.

Bold #3- Is there any proof of this?  Link?  Story?  Im not saying this absolutely is not true, but I would tend to think that the head coach is more responsible for this than a soft spoken player.

 

[everysingletime]

It would take a monumental collapse now for Rose not to win MVP. 

I hope he gets it. 

Just a wonder to watch and I know he's not done improving. 

He's already said he wants to go to work this summer on workin on a post game and he wants to continue working on his jumper. 

The work ethic of this kid is unreal, the sky's the limit. 

 

[everysingletime]

It would take a monumental collapse now for Rose not to win MVP. 

I hope he gets it. 

Just a wonder to watch and I know he's not done improving. 

He's already said he wants to go to work this summer on workin on a post game and he wants to continue working on his jumper. 

The work ethic of this kid is unreal, the sky's the limit. 

 

[CP1708]

dland24 wrote:

Bold #1- Why does team success need to be relative to the preseason expectations?  Isnt this kind of the same thing as the "if you take x player off of z team" argument, how good is the team?  I mean, its all speculation and conjecture right?  Just because the Heat and Magic were expected to be top teams shouldnt make Howard and Bron less deserving of the award.  
Bold #2- This is extremely debatable.  In fact, you can make a much better case of Bron having a better statistical season than Rose.  This is not to mention that Bron's defense is exponentially better than Rose's.

Bold #3- Is there any proof of this?  Link?  Story?  Im not saying this absolutely is not true, but I would tend to think that the head coach is more responsible for this than a soft spoken player.

You don't think it matters if a team performs under their expectations, compared to a team that performs above their expectations? 

  Conjecture or not, if a team disapoints what was expected, and another team far exceeds what was expected, how do you not account for that?  Sort of why you see me struggle listening to stat talk. 

2, he was saying HIS scorecard.  Not everybody.  Basically, HIS opinion of their seasons. 

3, yet again, why stats don't account for this stuff.  And no, there is no way of proving it with theories and formulas.  But that don't mean it's not there.  What if we polled the other 11 Bulls, and asked them, who has carried you this year?  Who would they say?  Well, can't prove that either can we?  Nobody is going to ask them that question right, does that mean we can't make educated guesses?  The numbers people want to get rid of everything that isn't tangible, that they can't add and divide by.  And as I have said 750 billion times on NT, there is a part of the game that can not be measured. 

I haven't even asked yet in this thread how sure are we that Bron is all that more valuable then Wade.  Again, stats will probably say one thing or another, but either way, those two are damn close to each other.  Rose don't have that luxury.  And if Wade was the SG for the Bulls right now, I'm damn near positive Bron would get credit for carrying lesser players (like he did in Cleveland) so why shouldn't Rose be given the same credit now? 

   Especially when two of his better guys missed 50 games. 

  

 

[CP1708]

dland24 wrote:

Bold #1- Why does team success need to be relative to the preseason expectations?  Isnt this kind of the same thing as the "if you take x player off of z team" argument, how good is the team?  I mean, its all speculation and conjecture right?  Just because the Heat and Magic were expected to be top teams shouldnt make Howard and Bron less deserving of the award.  
Bold #2- This is extremely debatable.  In fact, you can make a much better case of Bron having a better statistical season than Rose.  This is not to mention that Bron's defense is exponentially better than Rose's.

Bold #3- Is there any proof of this?  Link?  Story?  Im not saying this absolutely is not true, but I would tend to think that the head coach is more responsible for this than a soft spoken player.

You don't think it matters if a team performs under their expectations, compared to a team that performs above their expectations? 

  Conjecture or not, if a team disapoints what was expected, and another team far exceeds what was expected, how do you not account for that?  Sort of why you see me struggle listening to stat talk. 

2, he was saying HIS scorecard.  Not everybody.  Basically, HIS opinion of their seasons. 

3, yet again, why stats don't account for this stuff.  And no, there is no way of proving it with theories and formulas.  But that don't mean it's not there.  What if we polled the other 11 Bulls, and asked them, who has carried you this year?  Who would they say?  Well, can't prove that either can we?  Nobody is going to ask them that question right, does that mean we can't make educated guesses?  The numbers people want to get rid of everything that isn't tangible, that they can't add and divide by.  And as I have said 750 billion times on NT, there is a part of the game that can not be measured. 

I haven't even asked yet in this thread how sure are we that Bron is all that more valuable then Wade.  Again, stats will probably say one thing or another, but either way, those two are damn close to each other.  Rose don't have that luxury.  And if Wade was the SG for the Bulls right now, I'm damn near positive Bron would get credit for carrying lesser players (like he did in Cleveland) so why shouldn't Rose be given the same credit now? 

   Especially when two of his better guys missed 50 games. 

  

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by amel223

It would take a monumental collapse now for Rose not to win MVP. 

I hope he gets it. 

Just a wonder to watch and I know he's not done improving. 

He's already said he wants to go to work this summer on workin on a post game and he wants to continue working on his jumper. 

The work ethic of this kid is unreal, the sky's the limit. 

  
Word. Bron Bron better watch out. Rose could at some point jump Lebron for the premier player in the league. It can happen.

 

[651akathepaul]

Originally Posted by amel223

It would take a monumental collapse now for Rose not to win MVP. 

I hope he gets it. 

Just a wonder to watch and I know he's not done improving. 

He's already said he wants to go to work this summer on workin on a post game and he wants to continue working on his jumper. 

The work ethic of this kid is unreal, the sky's the limit. 

  
Word. Bron Bron better watch out. Rose could at some point jump Lebron for the premier player in the league. It can happen.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Originally Posted by amel223

It would take a monumental collapse now for Rose not to win MVP. 

I hope he gets it. 

Just a wonder to watch and I know he's not done improving. 

He's already said he wants to go to work this summer on workin on a post game and he wants to continue working on his jumper. 

The work ethic of this kid is unreal, the sky's the limit. 

  
Word. Bron Bron better watch out. Rose could at some point jump Lebron for the premier player in the league. It can happen.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Originally Posted by 651akathePaul

Originally Posted by amel223

It would take a monumental collapse now for Rose not to win MVP. 

I hope he gets it. 

Just a wonder to watch and I know he's not done improving. 

He's already said he wants to go to work this summer on workin on a post game and he wants to continue working on his jumper. 

The work ethic of this kid is unreal, the sky's the limit. 

  
Word. Bron Bron better watch out. Rose could at some point jump Lebron for the premier player in the league. It can happen.

 

[everysingletime]

I gotta admire the Rose detractors for their consistency and persistence.  S&T wouldn't be as interesting to me if everybody agreed on the same thing.  

 

[everysingletime]

I gotta admire the Rose detractors for their consistency and persistence.  S&T wouldn't be as interesting to me if everybody agreed on the same thing.  

 

[peteygreenthumb]

If Drose doesn't get the MVP this year.... smh 

 

[peteygreenthumb]

If Drose doesn't get the MVP this year.... smh 

 

[deuce king]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Former Bulls legend Michael Jordan believes Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA.

[h4]More On The Bulls[/h4]

Can't get enough NBA news and notes? ESPNChicago.com has all the latest on the Chicago Bulls. Blog

"MVP of the season," Jordan said about Rose after the Bulls' 101-84 win over his Charlotte Bobcats on Wednesday night. "He deserves it. He's playing that well. He deserves it. Without a doubt. And if he doesn't get it, now he'll see how I felt a lot of years."


Well that's pretty much the end of this years MVP debate.  If you didn't think or believe that Rose is the MVP......now you know.  I like this comment by Jordan cause not only does he say Rose is the MVP this year but that he (Jordan) should have won even more MVP awards than he received.  Gotta love it.
  

 

[deuce king]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Former Bulls legend Michael Jordan believes Derrick Rose is the MVP of the NBA.

[h4]More On The Bulls[/h4]

Can't get enough NBA news and notes? ESPNChicago.com has all the latest on the Chicago Bulls. Blog

"MVP of the season," Jordan said about Rose after the Bulls' 101-84 win over his Charlotte Bobcats on Wednesday night. "He deserves it. He's playing that well. He deserves it. Without a doubt. And if he doesn't get it, now he'll see how I felt a lot of years."


Well that's pretty much the end of this years MVP debate.  If you didn't think or believe that Rose is the MVP......now you know.  I like this comment by Jordan cause not only does he say Rose is the MVP this year but that he (Jordan) should have won even more MVP awards than he received.  Gotta love it.
  

 

[caerus]

I honestly though Rose had NO shot at MVP before this season. I just basically said to myself LeBron was going to get it before the season started. The talks of the triple doubles with Bron and the Heat 60+ wins, I didn't even give it thought.

Much, MUCH respect to Rose though. He knew what he was doing when he Low Key didn't want Lebron on the Bulls. He knows he can be THE man and by winning MVP as the youngest ever to do so would be Mind Shattering.

 

[caerus]

I honestly though Rose had NO shot at MVP before this season. I just basically said to myself LeBron was going to get it before the season started. The talks of the triple doubles with Bron and the Heat 60+ wins, I didn't even give it thought.

Much, MUCH respect to Rose though. He knew what he was doing when he Low Key didn't want Lebron on the Bulls. He knows he can be THE man and by winning MVP as the youngest ever to do so would be Mind Shattering.

 

[CP1708]

I'm eager to see how it's spun that a moron like myself can see the kid play IN DECEMBER and predict MVP and then it actually happens.  All without these wonderful stats that mean nothing to me.  You know, cuz I must have influenced the media or something. 

 

Still, lotta work to be done for the kid, can't let up yet.  He still needs to finish strong.