*2013 NFC North Trash Talk Thread™ ® --> Lions Hire Jim Caldwell as Head Coach.

[jpzx]

Exactly. He's so lost. Go practice your trash talk in the "Other Brands" forum and then come back when you're ready.

Aj Mansour ‏@AjKFAN
Christian Ballard the only absentee at morning walkthroughs. Jacob Lacey back in town but on crutches after scope. #Vikings

Staying relatively injury free... knock on wood. Of course, the real tests for health are going to come in games 2 & 3. Getting through those unscathed would be tremendous.

Starters are going to play "into the 2nd quarter" says Frazier.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Dude brought up a stat list with good quarterbacks that Christian Ponder was on.

It was stupid because Christian Ponder was in that situation far less the other quarterbacks on the list. Much smaller sample size. To point this out I brought up the fact that Shaun Hill had higher QB rating, of course it was in a small sample size which was my point.

The reason you put your two cents into this is because Minnesota's 0 for life burns y'all to the ******g core

 

[jpzx]

Do you have the attempts of the other Quarterbacks Barnwell listed (Roeth, Rodgers, Ryan, etc.) on 3rd-and-7 or more to even be able to disagree like you are?

No, you don't.

75 plays where it was 3rd-and-7 or more isn't a small sample size. And you tried to compare it to 13 passes that Shaun Hill threw the whole season? Those sample sizes are not even close.

Man.

 

[651akathepaul]

I put my two cents in because half the time you're an idiot with no real insight to what you're talking about. Not say you haven't actually brought something useful to NT, but that most of your posts don't. Just throw a after some tangent and you think you're clever or something not knowing that most everyone else is doing behing their computer screens.

By the way...I was alive for two World Series wins. One of which I remember vividly, so again...Get a clue.

 

[jpzx]

A clue? Whoa no, start him out slow.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

I put my two cents in because half the time you're an idiot with no real insight to what you're talking about. Not say you haven't actually brought something useful to NT, but that most of your posts don't. Just throw a after some tangent and you think you're clever or something not knowing that most everyone else is doing behing their computer screens.

By the way...I was alive for two World Series wins. One of which I remember vividly, so again...Get a clue.

Christian Ponder is a mediocre quarterback at best. Bringing up his long 3rd down conversions as an example of why he's better than Shaun Hill is stupid.

It's like me bringing up Matt Cassell's 3rd and 8 conversion rate being higher than Drew Brees and saying he's a better quarterback. I could post the top 10 of that stat and say I don't see Drew Brees anywhere on that list.

I said Shaun Hill was better than any Vikings QB in jest but I don't think it's a ridiculous notion and the evidence presented isn't strong enough to convince anyone else other wise.

 

[jpzx]

All in one post, you managed to contradict yourself, make up a Cassel/Brees stat out of nowhere, and not address the questions I asked that we both know you don't know the answers to.

Just another day.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Maybe I missed something but the premise of this whole argument started on ponder's 3rd down and longer than 7 conversion rate being high is why he's better than Shaun Hill right?

 

[fraij da 5 11]

Why there's a multi-post argument about anything involving Shaun Hill's skill level to begin with is blowing me away right now.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Why there's a multi-post argument about anything involving Shaun Hill's skill level to begin with is blowing me away right now.

I hate you

 

[jpzx]

Shaun Hill probably would be the third-stringer on our team. He's in his mid-30s, and hasn't played any significant time whatsoever since the 2010 season.

It's 2013.

You said Shaun Hill was better than Ponder, and provided no evidence to back it up. So I threw out a stat that illustrates Ponder actually excels in areas where many QBs that are admittedly better than him don't. That doesn't mean he's better than whoever is #8, #9, and #10 on that list that Barnwell threw out, but it does mean that the people that say he's awful, can't do anything, etc. are just contributing to the "mob effect" or "herd effect", and can't actually see what's in front of them.

He's not great, and he might not even be good (we'll see this year), but he's better than Shaun Hill.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Shaun Hill probably would be the third-stringer on our team. He's in his mid-30s, and hasn't played any significant time whatsoever since the 2010 season.

It's 2013.

You said Shaun Hill was better than Ponder, and provided no evidence to back it up. So I threw out a stat that illustrates Ponder actually excels in areas where many QBs that are admittedly better than him don't. That doesn't mean he's better than whoever is #8, #9, and #10 on that list that Barnwell threw out, but it does mean that the people that say he's awful, can't do anything, etc. are just contributing to the "mob effect" or "herd effect", and can't actually see what's in front of them.

He's not great, and he might not even be good (we'll see this year), but he's better than Shaun Hill.

I said it in jest but looking at Shaun Hill's stats since he's been in the NFL what exactly has Christian Ponder done that's hands down better?

 

[jpzx]

These are just random, but he led all QBs in red zone completion percentage in 2011 (11 games), and in 2012 he was leading all QBs in completion percentage for the first 5-6 games of the season or so.

He didn't sustain the last stat, but has Shaun Hill ever had runs like that at all? Or something to boast? Throw me something.

 

[dland24]

Shaun Hill has never really been given a fair shake in the NFL in my opinion.  I can assume that is due to coaches seeing his lack of arm strength and they just think that he cant get the job done.  During a stretch, which covered 2 seasons, Hill went 10-6 as the 49ers starting QB.  The 49ers were horrible for like a 5 or so year stretch, and Hill was the only QB we started who managed a winning record.  Yet, he was shipped off for absolutely no reason.

I am not saying Shaun Hill is really good.  I just think he is a lot better than he is given credit for.  He has limitations, but does a pretty good job in spite of them.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

These are just random, but he led all QBs in red zone completion percentage in 2011 (11 games), and in 2012 he was leading all QBs in completion percentage for the first 5-6 games of the season or so.

He didn't sustain the last stat, but has Shaun Hill ever had runs like that at all? Or something to boast? Throw me something.

Man didn't Ponder not throw a pass that travelled further than 20 yards pass the line of scrimmage during that 5-6 game stretch?

 

[jpzx]

DLand -- He'll be 34 when the 2013 season is over... do you think he's better than Ponder right now, though? I just can't get on the side of a guy who hasn't played any consistent time since Cam Newton was at Auburn.

SneakerPro -- What? I don't think so. You keep throwing this **** out half-asking, find the stat.

 

[dland24]

DLand -- He'll be 34 when the 2013 season is over... do you think he's better than Ponder right now, though? I just can't get on the side of a guy who hasn't played any consistent time since Cam Newton was at Auburn.

I'm not sure.  I dont really know how good I think Ponder is.  If you would have asked me that question week 6 of last season, I would have given you a resounding HELL NO.  But he had a pretty bad second half if I remember correctly.  And honestly, Ponder may be on his way to holding a clipboard in a season or 2 if we dont start seeing substantial improvement. 

I am not some huge Shaun Hill fan by any means.  I'm not ReliantJ

.  Even at 34, I think he is one of the best backup QBs in the league.  Better than Ponder though?  I dont know if I can say that.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Damn Shaun Hill has a .500 record as a starting quarterback has thrown 41 touchdowns to 23 interceptions and has completed 61.9% of his passes.

With a gun to my head I'd take Hill over Ponder.

He's played well despite being on bad teams every time he's got a shot.

A few people on the Lions boards I go to thought he should have replaced Stafford at times last season. I thought this was ridiculous but upon further review I kinda get it.

 

[dland24]

Damn Shaun Hill has a .500 record as a starting quarterback has thrown 41 touchdowns to 23 interceptions and has completed 61.9% of his passes.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about.  I cant go as far as you Pro, and say that Shaun Hill is definitively better than Christian Ponder at this point in his career.....however I will continue to promote the idea that Hill has never really gotten a fair shake in the NFL.

He went 10-6 as a starter for the 49ers during a seven year stretch where not a single other QB that we started went had a winning record.  And that was good enough for him to be shipped to Detroit for a 7th round pick (which is essentially the same as being cut).  Hill is much better than given credit for.  By fans, coaches, everyone.

 

[SneakerProSr.]

Damn Shaun Hill has a .500 record as a starting quarterback has thrown 41 touchdowns to 23 interceptions and has completed 61.9% of his passes.

See, this is exactly what I am talking about.  I cant go as far as you Pro, and say that Shaun Hill is definitively better than Christian Ponder at this point in his career.....however I will continue to promote the idea that Hill has never really gotten a fair shake in the NFL.

He went 10-6 as a starter for the 49ers during a seven year stretch where not a single other QB that we started went had a winning record.  And that was good enough for him to be shipped to Detroit for a 7th round pick (which is essentially the same as being cut).  Hill is much better than given credit for.  By fans, coaches, everyone.

Just looking at Hill's numbers how the hell has a team not given him a shot? Like I know he's one if the highest paid backups but you mean to tell me he isn't better than Ryan Fitzpatrick and Kevin Kolb?

 

[airblaster503]

Shaun Hill is one of the 5 best backups in the league. Considering how much poor play there is a QB I am also wondering why nobody has given him a shot. I think it is mainly because of age. But when he does get chances he comes in and plays lights out for the most part. Even this past preseason game( I know, I know it is only preseason) he was making throws that some teams can only hope of their starting QB making. Would I take him over Ponder, I would regardless of the circumstances. I just don't see anything in Ponder that warrants a team to continue to put time into him. He has to put up this year or Vikings need to look elsewhere, can't ride AP like they did last season.

 

[jpzx]

1.) [COLOR=#red]DLand[/COLOR]: you're almost on spot with Ponder's season trend. He was very good, then bad, then good in the last 3 games. His QB rating in the last 3 was 83.9, 81.8, and then....

In Week 17. With one game to go, one win needed for the playoffs, against the aggressive, risk-taking defense that is the Green Bay Packers (who were coming off of a 55-7 win over the Titans the previous week, by the way)... he did this.

Ponder's statline: 3 TDs, 0 INTs, 120.2 QB rating.

The #1 thing I look for in a QB is consistent success, but if he can't give me that, then I look for success in big moments. And winning at Houston in Week 16, and then out-dueling Aaron Rodgers in Week 17 where we NEEDED it, that's someone I can give some leeway to.

2.) Those Shaun Hill stats are better than I anticipated actually. But we all know why he didn't get his chance in the NFL... as dumb as it is.

Not recruited highly out of high school.
Went to a juco school for a few years.
Didn't light up the world at Maryland.
Undrafted.
Not a "sexy" QB name.
Looks like he plays slow even if he doesn't.

The guy has carved out a place in the league for sure, but it's more a mental thing in the mind of decision makers that he hasn't gotten a chance I think.

 

[jpzx]

We need to start some campaign to get him a starting spot in the league. I'm on the bandwagon.

 

[ultralightbeam]

Since this is a trash talk thread......I'm just gonna go ahead and say Ponder sucks.

 

[651akathepaul]

Shaun Hill reminds me a lot of Jon Kitna. Grind it out guys who have shown they can win games as starters, but never breakthrough (by bad luck or not) as anything more than a backup.