2014-15 Lakers Season Thread (21-61) KAT

[kingjaffejo]

How some can wish for losses but still critique B Scotts coaching style and Kobe's minutes restrictions will always baffle me

This is exactly what we all wanted. Close competitive losses....right?

 

[tay1]

The jumper just isn't falling but it'll come around. Dude is showing he can facilitate. What more do you want?

 

[senorroboto2k5]

How some can wish for losses but still critique B Scotts coaching style and Kobe's minutes restrictions will always baffle me

This is exactly what we all wanted. Close competitive losses....right?

Because Byron is signed for more than this year.

And because a lot of his decisions and quotes are absurd, even by bad coach's standards.

As for Kobe the team sucks either way, killing Kobe/using him like he's 31-year old Kobe isn't gonna change anything but break Kobe down quicker. It's not necessary.

 

[essential1]

How some can wish for losses but still critique B Scotts coaching style and Kobe's minutes restrictions will always baffle me

This is exactly what we all wanted. Close competitive losses....right?

I get he's the best thing for loses.

But an efficient Kobe, really doesn't change much for this team. They would still win a maximum of 15 games over the last 43 games.

Also properly resting Kobe, and figuring out the best way to maximize him is important in attracting somebody here in 2015, and for playing well next year.

 

[kingjaffejo]

Because Byron is signed for more than this year.

And because a lot of his decisions and quotes are absurd, even by bad coach's standards.

As for Kobe the team sucks either way, killing Kobe/using him like he's 31-year old Kobe isn't gonna change anything but break Kobe down quicker. It's not necessary.

oh ok so if its Kobe shooting 50 shots a game and not passing the ball leads to losses thats ok. But using Kobe to go all out and breaking down leading to losses is different....its too brutal...
oh ok

 

[essential1]

Because Byron is signed for more than this year.

And because a lot of his decisions and quotes are absurd, even by bad coach's standards.

As for Kobe the team sucks either way, killing Kobe/using him like he's 31-year old Kobe isn't gonna change anything but break Kobe down quicker. It's not necessary.

oh ok so if its Kobe shooting 50 shots a game and not passing the ball leads to losses thats ok. But using Kobe to go all out and breaking down leading to losses is different....its too brutal...
oh ok

That's six of one, half-a-dozen the other.


A lot of shots and having Kobe go all out is the same thing.


There's a balance that helps Kobe transition into the last 2 years, and still leads to a sub-30win team, and Byron isn't even close to that.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Because Byron is signed for more than this year.

And because a lot of his decisions and quotes are absurd, even by bad coach's standards.

As for Kobe the team sucks either way, killing Kobe/using him like he's 31-year old Kobe isn't gonna change anything but break Kobe down quicker. It's not necessary.

oh ok so if its Kobe shooting 50 shots a game and not passing the ball leads to losses thats ok. But using Kobe to go all out and breaking down leading to losses is different....its too brutal...
oh ok

Where did I say Kobe shooting 50x a game is okay?

By "using him like he's 31-year old Kobe" I meant using him like he's still that skilled and dominant, and trusting him enough to let him take 30+ shots every night.

I'm saying that's wrong, and so is whatever **** he's trying to do with his minutes.

 

[vindeezy]

The struggle with him-finding that happy medium between being the alpha male (assasssin) and doing enough to keep the supporting cast effective. I've always been a believer in that he gets a feel for each individual game/always been a read n react player and not strictly a gunner. The game within the game-so to speak. But....When he's off kilter...off rhythm....AND the few sporadic jumpers aren't falling..it's not effective basketball- it's almost like he's just floating around the court and it defeats the purpose of being out there-cuz you can find other options to facilitate the same exact way. After this tank job...He has to rediscover the mid range J....at least at a 43-45% clip. He must.

 

[kingjaffejo]

I get he's the best thing for loses.

But an efficient Kobe, really doesn't change much for this team. They would still win a maximum of 15 games over the last 43 games.

Also properly resting Kobe, and figuring out the best way to maximize him is important in attracting somebody here in 2015, and for playing well next year.

Ok lets get real here for a sec ....we aren't attracting anybody here because are front office is in turmoil from the outside looking in and are coach is an imbecile.
As long as Kobe here aint nobody of any importance coming here. And I honestly doubt Kobe plays next year. Kobe is done only because his style of play is predicated on him having a healthy
young body. He could play his style of play and still be active over there next few years if we had a squad that he didn't have to feel the need to put on his back every night. But we aint the Spurs and he aint Tim Duncan.
He tried to put the team on his back this first half of the season and his back broke

 

[essential1]

You really have not read anything discussed on the last 2 pages. Or even who we want to attract to the Lakers.

 

[kingjaffejo]

That's six of one, half-a-dozen the other.


A lot of shots and having Kobe go all out is the same thing.


There's a balance that helps Kobe transition into the last 2 years, and still leads to a sub-30win team, and Byron isn't even close to that.

All I am saying is you can't split hairs ...it isn't fair. You can't be on the outside looking in and say "this way is the proper way to lose" ....or theres some kind of right way to being subpar ....like really??

 

[bravelude]

Kobe is the best facilitator on the team. As for his legs, yeah they are gone. From overwork. But also too many games off will make someone off as well. Byron is just giving games off willy nilly for stupid reasons. There's a balance for everything concerning when Kobe takes over / when he should facilitate.. When Kobe creates for others / when others create for Kobe. Byron is nowhere near either.

It's been a horrible 2 weeks for Nick. Horrible to the point that it's hard to even explain it. Up to that point, he was having a very good season. His 2 point shooting has been bad, but was shooting 43% from 3 (45% of his shots were from 3), and 90% from the line. 40/43/90 I'll take all day any day from a bench player. 15 points off the bench, which is Top 5 in bench scoring. And he was playing an under the radar great season defensively too up to that point.

Up to Jan 4th (24games) Nick's defensive numbers (PER4 on SFs were .375 effective FG% & 5.8 PER. In the last 5 games he's now up to .445 effective FG% and 9.9 PER guarding SFs. Still very very good, but it's been a bad 2 weeks on both ends for him.

Good points bro.  I agree Kobe being a good facilitator, and it's because the smoke screen of his past accomplishments.  That's the tug that goes on.  Kobe SHOULD KNOW by now, that if he still commands a double team or whatever, he should pass.  TRUTH IS, guys know he ain't that type of player no more.  So he has to call the bluff and score when given that opportunity.  Sadly, he hasn't delivered much.

 

[kingjaffejo]

No I have ...I really have ...all I am saying is if Kobe's play won't matter regardless of the outcome then on the flip side his play shouldn't matter in recruiting players to the team as well.

 

[essential1]

All I am saying is you can't split hairs ...it isn't fair. You can't be on the outside looking in and say "this way is the proper way to lose" ....or theres some kind of right way to being subpar ....like really??

Yes there is.

I want every single player to play up to their highest standards.

Why? Because they'd still be a sub-30 win team either way.

You can lose with this team without killing your franchise player due to sheer incompetence.

 

[vindeezy]

A strange tidbit about tonight..besides Clarkson again getting ZERO burn...

Neither did Wayne. Strange. But not really. Not that it matters with wayne...bless him, though.

 

[essential1]

No I have ...I really have ...all I am saying is if Kobe's play won't matter regardless of the outcome then on the flip side his play shouldn't matter in recruiting players to the team as well.

No it actually does matter in recruiting players.

Because if he looks bad and we stink that's much worse than he looks good and we stink.
"Man Kobe is bad, that team sucks too." Or "Kobe played well, but look at the team around him, of course they were a lottery team."

If you overplay him, and wear him down that's bad. If you can't figure out a way to rest him properly, so he doesn't have to shake off rust every game that is bad too.

 

[kingjaffejo]

Where did I say Kobe shooting 50x a game is okay?

By "using him like he's 31-year old Kobe" I meant using him like he's still that skilled and dominant, and trusting him enough to let him take 30+ shots every night.

I'm saying that's wrong, and so is whatever **** he's trying to do with his minutes.

The thing is Kobe is still as skilled as ever. That doesn't go away. He just can't do it 48 min a night every night. We all know that. Same thing with Timmy D. Tim Duncan is as skilled as he has ever been but Pop knows once his minutes goes to a certain point its over! I can't remember the last time Tim D was looked at to put the team on his back

Kobe is what he is at this point. Let him be is all I'm saying. Its gonna be what its gonna be. But fooling ourselves into thinking something can change is foolish imo

 

[essential1]

Kobe is what he is at this point. Let him be is all I'm saying. Its gonna be what its gonna be. But fooling ourselves into thinking something can change is foolish imo

NO ONE IS ASKING HIM TO CHANGE. (Sans Ska, but he's always been asking )

We're asking Byron to alleviate some of the load off Kobe on offense, and have others help create open looks for him. It's been done before. Coaches have done it for him (albeit at various & lesser degree). And that's how you raise his shooting % and efficiency.

 

[bravelude]

^^ CBA should alter contracts based on PERFORMANCE.  This WHOLE CONTRACT GUARANTEE thing is BULL CRAP, and it's probably why teams are shuffling guys left and right like Chess pieces.

I don't understand how some guys out there enjoy seeing LA lose.  I don't wanna see Kobe go out this way and I've reiterated the point quite often.  I enjoy watching him and LA, and I hope they can sneak into the 8th. (LOL) Look at the Pistons post JOSH SMITH.  Anything can happen in the sports world, but most of you folks would rather see them fold.  I just don't get it.  Instead of supporting them, some of you folks would rather see them lose.  I get it, but still, it's just sad and disgraceful for fans to wish that.  Yall the type to boo and put brown bags over your faces?

 

[kingjaffejo]

Yes there is.

I want every single player to play up to their highest standards.

Why? Because they'd still be a sub-30 win team either way.

You can lose with this team without killing your franchise player due to sheer incompetence.

True but there is no middle ground with Kobe. Either he is in or he's out. thats it. Once he can't fully be in no more then he is gonna call it quits. Which is the main reason why I don't think he comes back next year. Minutes and games restrictions he is prob dying on the inside. He prob hurts on the inside as much as his body is hurting on the outside

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I thought the original question was how could we be upset with Byron's decisions if we're losing like we wanted.

His handling of Kobe's minutes is just one of the examples of how out-of-touch Byron is.

I don't need Kobe to change into Tim Duncan.

 

[bravelude]

NO ONE IS ASKING HIM TO CHANGE. (Sans Ska, but he's always been asking

)

We're asking Byron to alleviate some of the load off Kobe on offense, and have others help create open looks for him. It's been done before. Coaches have done it for him (albeit at various & lesser degree). And that's how you raise his shooting % and efficiency.

But this is the thing that reloops itself.  IME I still think LA has played better w/o KOBE.  They are able to trust each other as a unit, as opposed to playing in a 'pecking' order.  I still think Kobe needs to evolve further into 'stunting' guys and facilitate.  The only way he can do this is if he can score again.  But you guys proally get my point now..

 

[kingjaffejo]

No it actually does matter in recruiting players.

Because if he looks bad and we stink that's much worse than he looks good and we stink.
"Man Kobe is bad, that team sucks too." Or "Kobe played well, but look at the team around him, of course they were a lottery team."

If you overplay him, and wear him down that's bad. If you can't figure out a way to rest him properly, so he doesn't have to shake off rust every game that is bad too.

The day Kobe retires is the day we recruit significant players. Its inevitable. The writing is on the wall

 

[kingjaffejo]

Well the original argument was Byron and Kobes minutes ...so I just showed a parallel of Duncan & Pop
I clearly stated Kobe aint no Tim Duncan ....and let me clarify that point as I didn't do it well enough

I mean that as in Tim Duncan is ok with playing 20 min a night every other game and Pop has been on the front lines with Duncan for YEARS now. The relationship is different
Kobe is not ok with that **** he has stated it in years past that when this exact moment happens he will hang it up ....and Byron for damn sure aint no Pop so I just don't get it

If you're not asking Kobe to change what are you asking him to do?? Its either rest/minutes restrictions or go all out. And we know whats in his DNA

 

[essential1]

No it actually does matter in recruiting players.

Because if he looks bad and we stink that's much worse than he looks good and we stink.
"Man Kobe is bad, that team sucks too." Or "Kobe played well, but look at the team around him, of course they were a lottery team."

If you overplay him, and wear him down that's bad. If you can't figure out a way to rest him properly, so he doesn't have to shake off rust every game that is bad too.

The day Kobe retires is the day we recruit significant players. Its inevitable. The writing is on the wall

Not sure that's particularly fair. Or would change much of anything.


And again, you really are missing on the guys we have been saying to get. Most of us want to start building a team, doesn't need to be Marc Gasol. A player like Dragic. You think he spurns the Lakers because Kobe is here?

You think Melo spurned the Lakers because Kobe was here?

You think if we had cap space from 2005-2013, significant players wouldn't have lined up to be a Laker?