2015 NY Knicks offseason thread, Los Almighty appreciation thread

I think our biggest mistake was trading chandler... we were so desperate in getting rid of felton but didnt even realize his contract is actually better than jose... there was only 1 year left for ray unlike jose who has 2 and more money :x
 
I feel like every weekend Caldo is somewhere doing this




steve-nash-phoenix-suns-drunk-pictures1.jpg
 
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you go boy said:
I think our biggest mistake was trading chandler... we were so desperate in getting rid of felton but didnt even realize his contract is actually better than jose... there was only 1 year left for ray unlike jose who has 2 and more money :x
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i think tyson pretty much demanded a trade and honestly jose looked like a pretty good option, but he just cant stay healthy
 
Chandler trade was horrendous.

Jr and Iman trade was almost as bad. You have to deal with the end results.

Phil flunked this year, Fisher too. There's no way around it.
 
Al3xis said:
Chandler trade was horrendous.

Jr and Iman trade was almost as bad. You have to deal with the end results.

Phil flunked this year, Fisher too. There's no way around it.
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How did they "flunk"? You thought this team would get far w/ the same roster as last season? LOL. He cleared cap space. That was really the original plan. Let's not get crazy and say someone failed a 4 year plan in the first year :lol:
 
I concur. Trade Tyson in a contract yr for bum *** Calderon then he decides helping mj shaq and Kobe win chips isn't enough and fixes all of Clevelands problems with another stupid trade where we got nothing back
 
clyde the glide said:
I concur. Trade Tyson in a contract yr for bum *** Calderon then he decides helping mj shaq and Kobe win chips isn't enough and fixes all of Clevelands problems with another stupid trade where we got nothing back
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It's not about Cleveland though. It's about this team. We had to wipe the slate clean, shrump is garbage. JR has been better due to being the 5th option in CLE. They would've never worked out here. Tyson was crying about the team once the season finished.

Btw, Tyson is on his way to a first round exit on that Mavs team. If that's the kinda thing y'all want for this team, then we have very different visions.
 
Air Pope said:
Al3xis said:
Chandler trade was horrendous.

Jr and Iman trade was almost as bad. You have to deal with the end results.

Phil flunked this year, Fisher too. There's no way around it.
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How did they "flunk"? You thought this team would get far w/ the same roster as last season? LOL. He cleared cap space. That was really the original plan. Let's not get crazy and say someone failed a 4 year plan in the first year :lol:
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Well I'm thinking he means like this. Yes on this squad Iman and JR are overstepping their boundaries. However we see how they are performing in Cleveland in a reduced role and its obviously something that Cleveland needed or else they wouldn't have made that move in the first place. So logically speaking you would expect more in return for giving them two sorely needed role players.

Tyson trade was bad because he pretty much assumed that Dalembert could provide what Tyson could and took on an extended contract. He did it assuming we'd be competitive. Tyson didn't want to be here so on paper it makes sense but we could've gotten much more for a guy like Tyson.
 
I understand the big picure I Just don't like giving away proven contributors for nothing in return. Rookie gm move imo

Also saw nothing promising from fisher this year
 
That was the goal? When he told us our aim was the playoffs? He himself admitted that this season did not go how he envisioned. His quote was 'my experiment has fallen flat on its face' (iirc)

Knick fans had this thing where anyone not named Carmelo sucks and we just had to rid ourselves of them - I disagree. And now those 3 guys are valuable rotation players on playoff teams. And we have nothing to show for it.

Even his one draft pick is now 24 years old without any signs of being something. His system is so far outdated that he admits the game has moved on but still wants to see if it'll work. I don't like that. I'm not here for a sell fulfilling experiment.

All I ask for is a plan. Any leader with one will have my support. Phil has not shown to have one.
 
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Al3xis said:
Chandler trade was horrendous.


Jr and Iman trade was almost as bad. You have to deal with the end results.


Phil flunked this year, Fisher too. There's no way around it.
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Wow havent seen this handle in some time. Whats good fam :pimp:

At same time, just like back in the day, I disagree with that statement wholeheartedly. Sometimes you need to take a major step back to take a major step forward.

Sure Phil just got the Knicks their worst record in franchise history, but that is because whenever we have been bad enough to get the worst record in the past, we pull some dumb *** **** like trading away an expiring contract and a young Trevor Ariza at the trade deadline for Steve Francis. And in often cases it doesnt even matter because even if we were that bad we wouldnt have the draft pick to capitalize.

Tjhis season was a perfect storm IMO, and despite the team maybe not living up to Phil's now notorious preseason prediction, Phil stayed calm, stayed focus, and kept going with the flow. I 100$ respect that after seeing decades of inept GMs press the panic button whenever possible. Phil did the opposite, Phil saw the ship ready to sink and he blew the ******* thing up instead of trying to do a last minute repair job.

Like ive said over and over, even at our most positive/unrealistic expectations this team had 0 shot at winning a playoff series. This was a gap year for this team in any way you tried to look at it. No matter hoew successful we might have been, we were not going for a title this year. The plan has always been to utilize the cap space we have in 2015 and retool this team to hopefully make a run after that, but nobody thought this team was going anywhere this season.

So instead of trying to go for the classic 23-33 win Knicks, why not be really really really bad for once? Sure it gives the NY media dummies bulletin board material when they can shove it in your face that we got the worst record in franchise history any chance they can get but like I have said it was a perfect sorm and Phil knew that. It was a gap year, we have our draft pick, and there is a talented draft class coming in. We were always planing on retooling the roster this summer and now we are retooling with a likely top 3 pick/franchise player coming in instead of a pick somehwere between 10-15 like we would have had if this were a "successful season."

IMO Phil did a fantastic job this season. He is the first Knicks executive EVER to embrace a long term vision and look to the draft as the best way to go after a franchise player. Now, no matter what might happen in free agency, we are going to have a top draft pick and nobody could take that away from us. I wouldn't say Phil was perfect. Like I said, I think he could have done better with the Chandler trade, but if I am grading Phil on a Pass/Fair grade it would be Pass all day long no question about it.

Anybody who thinks that Phil "failed" in his first season is either very short sighted or media folk. What? You think Phil is going to walk through the door and use his presence alone to elevate a garbage roster to championship contender? That is the kind of dumb *** thinking that Knicks fans are wrongly criticized for having. The whole "You can't rebuild in NY" rumors.

Well, that is exactly what Phil is doing right now and we have a top draft pick coming in because of it. The #1 reason why I was upset when we brought in PJ originally was because I thought he viewed this as a money grab, and being a 70+ year old who had never been on a losing team or in a front office position, I didn't think Phil would have the time and/or patience to do what this team needed and would look for the quick fix in free agency instead of utilizing our draft pick(s). Well Phil proved otherwise this season and I must admit, I am cautiously optimistic about it.

Patience.
EDIT: and who gives a **** about his preseason playoff position? I dont get why media is so caught up about this.

It is all about the end result and the end result is that the Knicks are currently in a better postiom than we would be if we had snuck into the Playoffs like Brooklyn did and like Phil "predicted."

Phil saw an opportunity for a better option and he took it. After years and years of seeing moves like the Steve Francis trade, I love to see Phil make minor current sacrifices for the good of our future.

It isnt Phil's ******* fault that JR and Shump decided to destroy every ounce of trade value they once had before he got there. Phil gave them a chance and they blew it. Phil wanted a top pick and he knew that wasnt possible with the inevitable late season meaningless run that comes with a guy like JR Smith.

Would you rather Phil have taken the "high road" and kept JR/Shump because he couldnt find "equal trade value" and then miss out on a top 5 pick because JR decides to turn his game randomly on during a meaningless March-April stretch (like he did last year) causing the Knicks to finish with 27 wins and a 6-8 lottery spot? Then the offseason comes and Shump signs elsewhere in RFA and we are still stuck with JR's bum *** and his contract?

Sure Phil could have plyed the "high road," kept both of them, hurt our biggest asset in the process (draft pick), lose Shump anyway, still be stuck with JR, and have a 6-8 spot in the lotto instead of #2... Is that more of a "desirable" situation to be in right now than dumping JR and Shump for a bunch of chumps, getting JR's contract off our hands without taking one back, and getting enough losses to secure ourself of a top 5 pick and greater than a 55% chance of getting top 3?

Would Phil have been more successful this season had he did that? Come on now. Think LONG TERM for me one time. I get it that the Knicks sucked this season and at the time (right now) that seems like the biggest deal in the world, but nobody will remember **** about this season if we end up getting a franchise player out of it in the draft. Now that may or may not happen but at least for once we have a shot.

Remember how ******* pathetic the Thunder were before they got Kevin Durant? Or during Their first season in OKC right before they got Harden? Thats right nobody gives a ****. What people do give a **** about is that they landed Durant, Westbrook, and Harden in consecutive drafts.
 
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If he's totally committed to a rebuild - he will have my support and I'll believe in it.

But that doesn't begin until our 31 year old star is dealt and he keeps this years draft pick. I'll live with one out of 2, tbh.

I could care less about Dolan's pockets but if the goal was to suck as much as possible and deal off players for nothing- we could have hired someone for a lot less than 60 million dollars.
 
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easy for guys to succeed when they go from no. 2 and 3 options on the knicks to 4 and 5 on a team who's 3rd best player is kevin love. let's not act like the pressure or responsibility from shump and jr is equivalent to what was asked from them in NY. this current role is what they're suited for, not what they were forced/expected to do in NY.

like i said, a first rounder would've been nice, but I'm happy they're gone. they weren't winning players with the group of guys/responsibilities we had in place.
 
if you could support donnie walsh who traded away assets and picks to clear cap space just to fail at getting lebron, i think you need to support phil as well.
 
Donnie and Phil were drastically different.

Donnie set out a plan and followed it to a T. In the end, it didn't quite work. But he had an end game and did everything he could to put himself in the position for it to work out. I haven't seen the same from Phil. He still says now that the pick could be traded.
 
Al3xis said:
Donnie and Phil were drastically different.

Donnie set out a plan and followed it to a T. In the end, it didn't quite work. But he had an end game and did everything he could to put himself in the position for it to work out. I haven't seen the same from Phil. He still says now that the pick could be traded.
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Walsh's plan was to clear cap space for a couple of years and put all his eggs in the 2010 free agency basket. Phil has come here, resigned Melo, and plans to build a team around Melo starting with a nice mixture of free agents with the cap space we will have during the next 2 summers and our top draft pick in this draft.

In 2010 we had nothing and looked to free agency to basically supply everything. Right now we have Melo, a top draft pick, and will look to free agency to get the final couple of pieces necessary. But just because you dont like Melo and Phil believes in him as a franchise player and you dont agree with that, doesnt mean that Phil doesnt have a "plan" in place.

Matter of fact if Phil came in here with Donnie Walsh's plan to aimlessly clear cap space with the hopes of building a team through free agency, I would be quite angry. But I could live with looking to free agency to add the extra parts when you have Melo and hopefully a young star Melo could pass the torch to in a couple of years at the core of it all.

EDIT: and at the end of the day Melo is still hungry to win for this team and this city. Signing him last summer still allowed the Knicks a **** load of cap space to work with the summer as well as next summer, when Melo's long term deal will start to look like a bargain. Melo being here also makes the Knicks a much more attractive free agent destination to potential free agents. If all of a sudden the Knicks can offer some of these free agents a chance to compete in the East, play in NYC/MSG, and already have Melo and a top pick on board, we have a shot at getting a lot of these guys we wouldnt have a chance to sign without Carmelo.

Say what you want but locking up Melo was the right move. I hope every single day that the time comes when Melo gets to prove all the haters/doubters wrong and gets the love and respect from this city and fan base that he deserves. His time will come. The Dark Knight shall Rise again!
 
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Building a franchise around a 31 year old who can't stay healthy is a mistake.

Putting all of your eggs in the basket which contains the best player in the last 20 years at 25 years old is something I'll always live with. Donnie didn't ignore the draft, either. He was one spot away from having Steph Curry. Those are the breaks.
 
he's had one year of injury issues and if this was a playoff team he'd probably play through the pain.

i'm not worried about melo honestly. i think phil can build around him better than without him.
 
cant stay healthy? hes played in 830/984 regular season games. thats 84% over 12 seasons. i wouldnt call that injury prone. then again, there are a ton of melo haters here.

the only thing about those trades that couldve realistically worked out better for us is if we kept wayne ellington. he wouldve been a pretty decent role player who can knock down the 3 ball.
 
clyde the glide said:
Did he ever get surgery or is it not needed?
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He got it back in February.

I don't think its hate to question Melo's health, he's 30 years old....whether or not he uses his athleticism as much as other guys when you get up there in age you break down and clearly we see he's been under some physical stress the past two seasons.
 
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He also played hurt a lot previous to this year. I never understood why people dislike Melo so much. It's almost personal. :lol:
 
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