Sonny Corinthos
formerly joeclear
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I want Okafor. I'm not worried about who fits best with Carmelo, Carmelo only has 3 good years left anyway.
2015 NY Knicks offseason thread, Los Almighty appreciation thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pr0phecy718,
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Yeah lets invest everything we have in a top 5 NBA player, sign him to a near max deal, and fail to ever try and build an adequate team around his abilities except when his 2nd best player is JR ******* Smith. Right, lets just forget that we even have Melo.
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ok so here we go. last one. We do the lawson trade, draft WCS, sign Monroe and Ellis. Just throwing stuff out there. Not necessarily my dream scenario.
PG LAWSON
SG ELLIS
SF ANTHONY
PF MONROE
C WCS
PG LAWSON
SG ELLIS
SF ANTHONY
PF MONROE
C WCS
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Yeah lets invest everything we have in a top 5 NBA player, sign him to a near max deal, and fail to ever try and build an adequate team around his abilities except when his 2nd best player is JR ******* Smith. Right, lets just forget that we even have Melo.
i think he was trying to say don't draft based on the next 3 years. hopefully this player is here after Melo & he becomes our building block.
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I get this. But I still think it is equally important to try and build around Melo and all that he brings to the table. **** it would be irresponsible and lazy not to. You can find that potential franchise player who will bring the best out of Melo. You can find Melo's successor AND his beta-dog in this draft if we try to.
Going into the draft thinking "in spite" of Melo is ******* stupid. No team would ever think that way with a franchise player already on their roster. And Melo still is a franchise player. The Knicks need to try and do with Melo what Boston did with Pierce. I have said this a million times so I wont get into it any further than that.
Just know that Melo is/was better than Paul Pierce EVER was at any point in his career. It is mostly on the Knicks to try and ensure Melo's place in history. He has committed to us. Time to return the ******* favor. And dont ******* give me that we already have, because we havent. We dont owe him anything as much as we owe it to our ******* selves to do this much.
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@nickmaz96 just read your quote
"When I die I want the Knicks to carry my casket so they can let me down one last time"
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So damn classic. I miss NBA on NBC.
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thats why i hate the melo slander. yeah, some say he stayed just for the money and other opportunities, but at least he stayed. some say we got fleeced in the denver trade. at least he stayed and we have something, vs him leaving and we're pretty much the sixers. a top tier player is better than none last time i checked.
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I'm sorry but if rather keep the pick. No more ******** patch jobs that eat up cap space. Only person I'd trade that pick for is Cousins and that's not being realistic.
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Agreed. Having Melo on this team is such a ******* gem, it just pisses me off when people give in to public criticism and fail to realize this. Melo can carry a team if he is allowed to do what he does best. He ******* showed us all this when he led us to a 54 ******* win season with mental ******* ****** JR as his #2 beta-dog. Building around Melo should still be a top priority IMO. Doesnt mean you need to expect him to be Lebron, he is not Lebron, but we should still look to build a team that best uses him as the ******* weapon he is.
Quitting on Melo is beyond ******* stupid to me. ******* stupid and ******* lazy. Like you said, he is ******* here, and is a ready now franchise player. I can live with dying through him but at least give it a ******* shot. We really havent done this yet. You can not convince me otherwise that the Knicks have built a team to get the best out of Melo. His best ******* PG he has played with has been ******* Prigioni!!! And Melo NEEDS A ******* PG to make him better.
You can argue with me all day that part of the reason Melo hasnt played on this kind of team is because Melo forced us to give up assets to bring him here. This is a fair argument. But the reality is that franchise players cost assets all the ******* time. This is nothing new and still not an excuse to never put Melo in a really great situation.
Striking out swinging is not the same as striking out. I can live and die with Melo. I am fine with that. However, I can NOT live with never truly trying to build any kind of high ceiling team around Melo. Especially after he committed to us. People love to give Melo all type of **** for costing us trade assets (NONE of them even close to franchise players) and taking a big contract. Really? ******* REALLY?? He is a franchise ******* player! Give me a god damn break for criticizing Melo for being valued and paid like a franchise player.
Phil NEEDS to personally take it upon himself to maximize Melo's potential. Because the potential is still there and at the end of the day, that is why Phil is here right now.
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I just laugh at the Melo slander now. JR has been his #2 for like 8 years 
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i dont get this sudden concept that now melo can't play with certain players. melo can play with anyone in the world. he's a scorer that can get buckets off the dribble, spotting up, on the block, at the high post, etc. it's nonsense to think he can't play with okafor.
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I dont necessarily think he cant play with Okafor. I mean, thats not true. I do think this, personally. But like I said, time will prove all tests and I will be open minded no matter what happens. It is just that I dont like the potential defensive combination of Melo/Okafor more than anything else. I dont think it would work out. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again, but that is how I view things, and just like anybody else I formulate my own opinions. Like I said, quickest way into my heart for any incoming Knicks draft pick is to play great D from day 1. If Okafor doesnt do that he will take longer to win me over as a fan, but it is not impossible.
I just think the Knicks need to get back to their winning formula while incorporating new elements of the triangle to encourage ball movement and floor spacing. I think this starts with getting Melo back to the 4 and getting a PG who can push the ball and create for others. This is why I would rather draft a PG over someone like Okafor. Also, because I am uncertain of a potential Melo/Okafor front court defensively, which I think might force us to move Melo back to the 3. I dont love the idea of Melo/another big man/Okafor frontcourt.
I never said that I dont think Okafor cant have a great career. If he gets drafted by the Lakers and becomes an all-star, I still wont necessarily think my current argument is off based at all. I just dont love his fit on this particular team and would much prefer to draft a PG. Especially one with the upside and ability to coexist with/ succeed Melo eventually, like I see Mudiay/Russell being able to do. That is all....
I mean its never "all" with me. But at least that is the point I am constantly trying to make.
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its not that they cant play together. its that their playing styles dont compliment each other. melo is best in midrange and in, so he needs a shooter on the wing and a stretch 4 to really compliment his scoring capability. having both melo and okafor in the mid to low post area just clogs the lane. and that is why the 12-13 was so good with novak and JR on the perimeter.
now monroe is basically and older okafor. if we're gonna sign that type of player anyway, we might as well draft a PG and access that need. drafting okafor and signing monroe is redundant. thats why i like the idea of trading the pick, if we dont get to draft either muddy or russell.
speaking of the melo/denver trade. who wouldve thought that mozgof would actually be the most valuable player in terms of what we gave up. i thought it was gonna be gallo.
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the biggest issue is defensively but guess what, if you're going to play melo at the 4 unless you pair him with a stud center, you're going to be food defensively either way. take the best player available and move on from there.
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dude (outside otfNT) really taking serious talks about rubio to the knicks in exchange for the pick? man get outta here
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Looking like LAL has their eyes set on Okafor.
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Knicks were never "food defensively" when Tyson was at his best. Im not saying we need a DPOY necessarily, but I do think we need a rim protecting center.
But whatever, maybe Okafor will be great. Like I have said there is no possible way for me or anyone else to know this right now. The most I can do is use what I know, and what I want to see on the Knicks, and formulate an opinion based on that. In my opinion Jahil Okafor is not what the Knicks need. I think the Knicks can and should get much more out of that #4 pick. IMO Jahil has very high "safe pick" potential if he falls to us. As we have learned from David Khan's tenure, the safe pick is not always the best pick. Sometimes it is, but a lot of other times it isnt.
And like I said, for me personally, the quickest way into my heart as a fan is to play great D from day 1. It would be a lot easier for me to get behind Mudiay coming in, spreading the rock, locking down on D, while struggling to find his shooting touch than it would be to see Jahil come in and average 18 a game while playing **** defense.
The best way to explain this for me: I was never impressed by Eddy Curry averaging 20 points per game and playing ****** defense. The same will be true for Okafor. In order for me to get behind Okafor he will either have to do one of two things. Either prove himself to me as a defender or prove to me that we could win in spite of his defense. But I just dont see the latter happening alongside Melo, and as such I would rather not bank on a prospect's defensive potential who I have never ******* seen play good defense.
This is different than Mudiay and his outside shooting IMO. I am not expecting the Knicks to be banking on Mudiay's shooting if we selected him. I truly believe that the Knicks can be a great team without Mudiay ever becoming a consistent outside shooter. I would certainly hope that his jump shot develops with time, but I would not be reliant on this. Drafting Okafor would be relying on his defensive potential IMO. I dont think the Knicks could ever win with Melo and Okafor unless Okafor became at least a very serviceable defensive center. And shooting is A LOT easier to develop than defense, BTW. Like others have said, in today's game, give me the rim protector with a limited offensive repertoire over the vice-versa.
But hey, Im not calling the shots, so we wait and see what happens. That is the name of the game. I have been wrong about players before, but I have also been right a lot more, if I had to evaluate myself. But at the end of the day, im just another fan expressing my view points. If we do draft Okafor, I can not stop him from succeeding, and I hope that he proves me wrong if he is a Knick like Eddy Curry was never able to do. I truly want that. I will take being wrong for the benefit of the Knicks everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.
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A month later and I don't feel good about where we are.
Rock and a hard place.
Rock and a hard place.
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haven't heard that. and ricky rubio will go down in as one of the worst shooters in NBA history, with nothing but injury problems. Why would anyone want to make that deal?
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Only Rubio rumor I have heard anywhere is the one that I brought up here awhile back. Havent heard anything else whatsoever. And it was for Caldo/THJR, never mentioned a pick, never said I would 100% do it either. Just an interesting scenario I thought about. A potentially alternate route to take at PG instead of using the #4 pick on a playmaking PG who cant shoot like Mudiay.
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I think my biggest problem with Rubio is he never plays, he's always hurt. I could probably live with his shooting if he played 75 games a year.
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tyson was the kind of center i had in mind but theres only like 3-5 guys in the league at that level. and we'll probably need to overpay to get them.
but theres only like 3-5 guys in the league at that level. and we'll probably need to overpay to get them.
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could WCS be the next Tyson Chandler?tyson was the kind of center i had in mindbut theres only like 3-5 guys in the league at that level. and we'll probably need to overpay to get them.
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if he wants to he could probably be better honestly. his motor and passion is questionable though. but the talent is there.