2016 MLB thread. THE CUBS HAVE BROKEN THE CURSE! Chicago Cubs are your 2016 World Series champions

[dland24]

And as far as Kershaw and Greinke cancelling each other out goes....I disagree that this was "well known."  In fact, I don't even agree that it happened, based on the amount of 1st, 2nd and 3rd place votes they each got.

 

[CP1708]

Matheny had a loaded team, expected year in, and year out to go to the playoffs, every single year.

Maddon took over a team that won 73 games last year, and had half the starting lineup be rookies. And they improved by 25 games.

It isn't that Matheny didn't do a great job, it's that he did it with a World Series type of team, that he took over from Tony and carried the torch as is.

Maddon took kids playing their first ever games in the bigs.

And he lost guys too. Soler, Baez, mid season call up Schwarber, tons of bullpen guys, we were picking up guys in late August and inserting them into the 7th and 8th innings. The handling of Castro. La Stella being out, Montero was out a while, same injury landmines Matheny dealt with. Only with a ton less experience.

No one, I mean NO ONE picked the Cubs in the playoffs, and they won 97 games. Matheny and the Cards? Everyone had them in it. We all knew they were gonna be there at the end. He certainly did a great job working around Waino and Yadi, but lil easier to do that with a club that's done it year after year after year, no?

 

[ooiron manoo]

It's one thing to not give it to the best pitcher in baseball simply because you can't give the guy the award every year ([emoji]128564[/emoji]). To give it to the third best pitcher though.

Cubs getting slurped enough to end their drought... maybe.

 

[CP1708]

His place in history: OK, here we go. Arrieta's 0.75 ERA after the All-Star break was the lowest since the invention of All-Star breaks, which began in 1933. ... His 0.27 ERA and .132 opponent batting average over his final nine starts are unmatched by any pitcher in modern history over any span of nine starts, according to Elias Sports Bureau research. ... His 0.41 ERA from Aug. 1 on is also unmatched in modern history. ... His 0.86 ERA over his final 20 starts was the best by anyone since earned runs became an official stat more than a century ago. ... And, aw, you get the idea. This guy had, basically, the most dominating finish ever.

Why he'll win: Voters often vote according to what they saw last, as opposed to what they saw over six long months. Arrieta ought to sweep the voting among that crowd. Heck, over his final 17 starts, the Cubs went 16-1 and he hit as many home runs as he allowed (two). But even the big-picture voters should know this: Arrieta had a 1.77 ERA and 0.87 WHIP, allowed only 5.9 hits per nine innings and averaged more than a strikeout an inning. In the Cy Young era, just two other pitchers ever matched or beat those numbers in the same season: Sandy Koufax in 1965 and Pedro Martinez in 2000. They both won Cy Youngs. Yep, also unanimously.

In Jake’s 6 losses, the Cubs scored 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 2, runs.

3rd best.

Greinke was 7th, according to Fangraphs. We usin ESPN stats now?

Cuz Jake was 2nd, in both. Kersh was 1st, and 3rd. Greinke 1st and 7th.

So not seein how you get 3rd out of that, but I think I can guess why.

 

[arstyle27]

Yet another award given to a Cub when there was someone more deserving.  I swear these reporters vote for the story rather than the player.

Lol yea ok

 

[ooiron manoo]

Cool, even with your best argument he wasn't the best

Seriously think Arrieta go it because they weren't going to give kershaw a 4th consecutive Cy Young.

What is crazy is that you can have a legit argument that Kershaw should've been a 5 time Cy young winner.

It's truly a special time, too bad you have to give the award to flash in the pans sometimes.

 

[arstyle27]

3rd best.

Greinke was 7th, according to Fangraphs. We usin ESPN stats now?

Cuz Jake was 2nd, in both. Kersh was 1st, and 3rd. Greinke 1st and 7th.

So not seein how you get 3rd out of that, but I think I can guess why.

Let them hate CP. I would've been fine with either Dodgers pitcher winning, but I knew Jake was gonna get it. In fact I called it many weeks ago in the Cubs thread.

 

[nick.]

i don't think one guy was more deserving than the other 2. you can make a case for all 3 that they were the best pitcher in the NL.

don't mind Arrieta winning at all

 

[madj55]

Not sure why anyone is surprised with how the BBWAA votes on things. Matt Williams won MOY in 2014. That's all that needs to be said.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Kershaw deserved it. Guy struck out 300 men and dominated after a slow start.

 

[CP1708]

Ehhh, I dunno about flash in the pan, but I understand why you feel that way.

He has all the numbers based on his K's and such, but Kersh also watched his team lose 4 straight of his starts. While Jake went on a rampage and his only loss was being no hit by Hamels.

Also, we aren't even sure Kersh is the best pitcher on his own team, and Jake clearly carried his team to the finish line, with a historic stretch, and without a doubt the best on his team.

*shrugs*

 

[ooiron manoo]

Kershaw deserved it. Guy struck out 300 men and dominated after a slow start.

I mean those are just facts. However once "hate/hating/hater" gets thrown in a decent argument/debate/discussion then it's time to just throw in the towel and accept it for what it is.

Dude called it in the cubs thread with his cub friends because all he watched is cubs baseball. Let em cook in their small world. Advanced metrics be damned.

 

[dland24]

Matheny had a loaded team, expected year in, and year out to go to the playoffs, every single year.

Maddon took over a team that won 73 games last year, and had half the starting lineup be rookies. And they improved by 25 games.

It isn't that Matheny didn't do a great job, it's that he did it with a World Series type of team, that he took over from Tony and carried the torch as is.

Maddon took kids playing their first ever games in the bigs.

And he lost guys too. Soler, Baez, mid season call up Schwarber, tons of bullpen guys, we were picking up guys in late August and inserting them into the 7th and 8th innings. The handling of Castro. La Stella being out, Montero was out a while, same injury landmines Matheny dealt with. Only with a ton less experience.

No one, I mean NO ONE picked the Cubs in the playoffs, and they won 97 games. Matheny and the Cards? Everyone had them in it. We all knew they were gonna be there at the end. He certainly did a great job working around Waino and Yadi, but lil easier to do that with a club that's done it year after year after year, no?

Ultimately, this is why he won the award.  Because no one expected them to be where they were at the beginning of the season.  The team improved by 25 games.  That's a lot.  But just because they did that, means the manager should get the award?  Even as a baseball coach myself, I have a hard time saying Maddon was the reason for this.  The Cubs roster was COMPLETELY different from the previous year.  This isn't like Jim Harbaugh taking over basically the EXACT same 49ers team in 2011 and turning them from a 6 win team to a 13 win team.

They added an ace pitcher.  They added Hammel, who is a pretty good #3.  They added a leadoff hitter and catalyst to their lineup.  They added a veteran catcher to lead their pitching staff.  Their superstar prospects...Bryant, Russell, Soler and Schwarber arrived.  Arrieta transformed from a good pitcher to one of the best pitchers in baseball.  Their first baseman transformed into an MVP candidate.

Meanwhile, the Cardinals lost their ace for the entire season, lost their 3 hitter for most of the season, lost their first baseman for most of the season, lost their setup man for most of the season, lost their centerfielder for part of the season, lost pieces of their starting rotation for various portions of the season, lost pieces of their bullpen for various portions of the season, lost Yadi or was playing hurt for some of the season, lost pieces of their bench for various portions of their season.....all the while Matheny kept tinkering with his lineup, making the right decisions and managing the Cardinals to the best record in baseball.

So basically, I have no idea where this "Maddon had to deal with the same injury landmines that Matheny did" comes from.

Frankly, his team being expected to in it at the end all the way back in Spring Training is irrelevant to me.  The way the season shook out injury wise, the Cardinals had every reason to be a .500 team.  But they weren't.  They were the best team in baseball in the regular season, in spite of the circumstances.  Matheny should have been honored for that.  Instead, the writers took the simple "oooh the Cubs improved by 25 games" narrative and gave Maddon the credit instead of the revamped, loaded roster.

 

[jewbacca2]

Why do people care who wins these awards?

 

[khalilmack52]

Cubs gonna win all the awards and still not make it to the World Series

 

[johnnyredstorm]

Ehhh, I dunno about flash in the pan, but I understand why you feel that way.

He has all the numbers based on his K's and such, but Kersh also watched his team lose 4 straight of his starts. While Jake went on a rampage and his only loss was being no hit by Hamels.

Also, we aren't even sure Kersh is the best pitcher on his own team, and Jake clearly carried his team to the finish line, with a historic stretch, and without a doubt the best on his team.

*shrugs*

Kershaw's been the best pitcher in baseball this decade.

 

[celticspride34]

Why do people care who wins these awards?

Because humans are naturally combative creatures...

 

[CP1708]

Why do people care who wins these awards?

Eh, gives us all somethin to fuss about during the off-season.

 

[CP1708]

JRS, I know what he's considered.

But THIS year, you mentioned 300 K's, slow start.

Well, Jake was better than that this year. Jake carried his team for months, unprecedented.

Kersh struck a lot of guys out.

And this year, you could argue Greinke was better, not saying definitive, but you could make a case.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...5&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

 

[CP1708]

I know, I already said they have him 7th.

But you've seen Dodger fans also claim he was robbed. (Not Iron, but others, I know IM is talkin for Kersh)

 

[ooiron manoo]

Why do people care who wins these awards?

Something to talk about. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Kershaw was hands down the best pitcher on his own team. Casual fans may have been lured into thinking greinke was, because Wins and because ERA. Otherwise Kershaw is the best pitcher/ACE. Hands down, yes there were debates even amongst Dodgers fans (every fan base has their dummies).

Sucks he didn't get it. Would've been cool, don't want to use the word robbed, those who win have great seasons in their own right.

Baseball writers and their award picks are like strike zones. Can a machine do a better job? Yes, but somehow human error is a part of the game/process.

 

[arstyle27]

I mean those are just facts. However once "hate/hating/hater" gets thrown in a decent argument/debate/discussion then it's time to just throw in the towel and accept it for what it is.

Dude called it in the cubs thread with his cub friends because all he watched is cubs baseball. Let em cook in their small world. Advanced metrics be damned.

Ummmm no. I called because i was right.

 

[arstyle27]

And like i said i have no qualms with Kershaw supporters...just dont diss Arrietta. Jake was terrific. Honestly, im still pissed we lost to those bum Mets. I dont care about all these individual awards.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

peripherals support Kershaw

ye shrug