2018 NBA Playoffs Thread

[EnvyTheGreen]

Shaq has one and rightfully so. Same with Kobe as well though. Nash revolutionize the PG position into what we’re seeing today. Regardless...1 MVP though?

I don’t see how Nash revolutionized the position at all. He was a pass-first PG who could shoot (but not play a lick of D). The best PG’s today are either electric scorers or triple-double machines.

Nash was basically Stockton with a more offensive-minded coach and better shooters. Stockton was the better basketball player.

Shaq deserves more than one MVP.

 

[lamekilla]

I answered your question. If you don't like the answer explanation fine.

You’re explanation was...fine. However you can’t be a GOAT with less than 3 MVP’s let alone less than 2....you know this.

 

[dennistrane]

Shaq could’ve been the goat if he had a work ethic

 

[MVP]

You’re explanation was...fine. However you can’t be a GOAT with less than 3 MVP’s let alone less than 2....you know this.

So Shaq ain't a GOAT? That's your own arbitrary criteria. Is KD not going to be a GOAT cause he only has 1 league MVP. I could just as easily say you ain't a GOAT without 5 rings minimum and that would eliminate Lebby. You know this though right?

 

[lamekilla]

I don’t see how Nash revolutionized the position at all. He was a pass-first PG who could shoot (but not play a lick of D). The best PG’s today are either electric scorers or triple-double machines.

Nash was basically Stockton with a more offensive-minded coach and better shooters. Stockton was the better basketball player.

Shaq deserves more than one MVP.

He was a dynamic point guard that could score from beyond the arc, very similar to the the PG we all love today in GS. Those Phoenix teams were so fast and completely different from the tempo of offense ran then with a Big Ben Wallace, or Yao Ming or Tim Duncan or Karl Malone slowing down transitions and being the focal point of a PG’s offensive repertoire. Steve Nash conducted that. Pioneered. But I do agree, Shaq should’ve won in 01-02 as well.

 

[EnvyTheGreen]

You can't answer the question lol. Tells me all I need to know.

Everyone knows how they got them, so I don’t get your question or response.

I’ve followed and watched basketball for a long time, I know how the NBA works. Like I said, getting a top pick and doing something with it are different stories.

Smart, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum were all great picks. You can’t credit King for that, as many teams whiff on top picks (two were not part of the trade, btw). Ainge’s drafting has greatly improved with Stevens at the helm. He still knows college.

Keeping harping on King though.

 

[seasoned vet]

Two takeaways from tonight,

1)This Celtics team is full of guys who are Willing to do all the little things to win
2) This is another one of those classic Lebron Games i be talking about, In the Long Run people will say did you see his stats what else could he do... without the context of watching the game. Played out of his mind in the first quarter. Come the end of the Third & Fourth when The Celtics are making their runs, Or the Cavs Offense is stalling.. Lebron is back to being passive, not attacking, just going through the motions. He has a knack for going on cruise control when his teams need those superhuman outburst he's capable of.

Did it All of the 2014 Finals, Did It All last years finals... it's the most confusing thing I've seen from a player of that caliber in any sport. Because he's shown he can go through stretches when he can dominate During major moments... it's just that attitude isn't always there, forget the productivity, just the aggressiveness & Mark Jackson Brought sme attention to it Also, Bill Simmons has bought attention to it, Brian Windhorst has brought attention to it.

i see it
and ive never understood it

however i dont buy the ‘scared’ narrative either

what it is
i dont know

 

[Mr Dink]

Nash revolutionize the PG position into what we’re seeing today.

So, I guess Magic Johnson never existed, huh?

 

[EnvyTheGreen]

He was a dynamic point guard that could score from beyond the arc, very similar to the the PG we all love today in GS. Those Phoenix teams were so fast and completely different from the tempo of offense ran then with a Big Ben Wallace, or Yao Ming or Tim Duncan or Karl Malone slowing down transitions and being the focal point of a PG’s offensive repertoire. Steve Nash conducted that. Pioneered. But I do agree, Shaq should’ve won in 01-02 as well.

How was he any more “dynamic” than Stockton? When I think of dynamic PG’s that changed the position, I think of players like KJ and Francis.

The Suns were a fantastic offense but they sped up the pace and played zero defense. That model was proven to be a waste as they never made a Finals. D’Antoni brought that to Houston and will result in the same.

Nash was a HoF’er, but very overrated. I can’t stand Curry, but he’s clearly a level above Nash.

 

[lamekilla]

So Shaq ain't a GOAT? That's your own arbitrary criteria. Is KD not going to be a GOAT cause he only has 1 league MVP. I could just as easily say you ain't a GOAT without 5 rings minimum and that would eliminate Lebby. You know this though right?

Of course Shaq is a GOAT but we’re talking general GOATs, not position. Is Shaq in your top 5? And a 5 ring minimum entry would have you saying Robert Horry was better than Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain. Though neither logo or Wilt have 3 rings, I think 3 rings allows for a much more diverse entry point

 

[lamekilla]

So, I guess Magic Johnson never existed, huh?

Magic Johnson was 6’3?

 

[MVP]

Everyone knows how they got them, so I don’t get your question or response.

I’ve followed and watched basketball for a long time, I know how the NBA works. Like I said, getting a top pick and doing something with it are different stories.

Smart, Rozier, Brown, and Tatum were all great picks. You can’t credit King for that, as many teams whiff on top picks (two were not part of the trade, btw). Ainge’s drafting has greatly improved with Stevens at the helm. He still knows college.

Keeping harping on King though.

It's quite simple if Billy King isn't an idiot Boston isn't close to being where they are. Their own picks were Smart and Rozier.

James Young
RJ Hunter
Ante Zizic
Guerson Yabusele

Also 1st rd selections by the Celtics since the Nets trade. So it looks like he was just as lucky as Heinke in hitting on picks. The crown jewels are a direct result of Billy King's stupidity. Just as Ben and Joel were a result of Philly's repeated tanking.

 

[MVP]

Of course Shaq is a GOAT but we’re talking general GOATs, not position. Is Shaq in your top 5? And a 5 ring minimum entry would have you saying Robert Horry was better than Jerry West and Wilt Chamberlain. Though neither logo or Wilt have 3 rings, I think 3 rings allows for a much more diverse entry point

No Shaq isn't in my top 5. He has 4 rings. Wilt nor West are top 3 at their positions respectively either.

Keep being silly with the Robert Horry steez.

 

[Mr Dink]

Magic Johnson was 6’3?

What does height have to do with revolutionizing the PG position? A modern PG controls the offense to set other players up for easy buckets - something Magic did well before Nash. Shooting beyond the arc should be a last line of attack for the modern PG.

 

[lamekilla]

How was he any more “dynamic” than Stockton? When I think of dynamic PG’s that changed the position, I think of players like KJ and Francis.

The Suns were a fantastic offense but they sped up the pace and played zero defense. That model was proven to be a waste as they never made a Finals. D’Antoni brought that to Houston and will result in the same.

Nash was a HoF’er, but very overrated. I can’t stand Curry, but he’s clearly a level above Nash.

Because he didn’t have an MVP/ HoF Forward or center to feed the ball to yet was still insanely efficient. Suns got fleeced by David Stern and Nash more than likely would’ve got his ring off of Lebron but that’s neither here nor there. Of course Curry is better than Nash but Nash is the blueprint to the Steph Curry of the world we have today.

 

[freakydestroyer]

AIlen Iverson had more influence on the modern day PG than Nash without actually playing PG.

 

[LebronHasMoreFinalsMVPs]

AI also laid the blueprint on how to destroy your career

 

[Mr Dink]

AI also laid the blueprint on how to destroy your career

AI has a lifetime contract with Reebok. He's doing just fine.

 

[freakydestroyer]

AI also laid the blueprint on how to destroy your career

That is debatable but it's hard to say he did not maximize his potential for the most part.

 

[lamekilla]

No Shaq isn't in my top 5. He has 4 rings. Wilt nor West are top 3 at their positions respectively either.

Keep being silly with the Robert Horry steez.

You brought up 5 rings as a potential prerequisite to be GOAT and I just pointed out that that would underrate a lot of players and overrate some as well. Shaq isn’t in my top 5 either but definitely in my top 10.

What does height have to do with revolutionizing the PG position? A modern PG controls the offense to set other players up for easy buckets - something Magic did well before Nash. Shooting beyond the arc should be a last line of attack for the modern PG.

A point guards job is to control the offense to set other players up for easy buckets. Not to say Magic didn’t do it well, because he did. But to revolutionize a position is to do something unconventional of the norm. Nash was a legit scorer and playmaker without a HoF/MVP big to capitalize his threat. Shooting beyond the arc for a PG was somewhat frowned upon until he made it “a thing”. With that being said, Magic is in my top 3 and Nash isn’t even in my top 10.

 

[EnvyTheGreen]

It's quite simple if Billy King isn't an idiot Boston isn't close to being where they are. Their own picks were Smart and Rozier.

James Young
RJ Hunter
Ante Zizic
Guerson Yabusele

Also 1st rd selections by the Celtics since the Nets trade. So it looks like he was just as lucky as Heinke in hitting on picks. The crown jewels are a direct result of Billy King's stupidity. Just as Ben and Joel were a result of Philly's repeated tanking.

Where were those guys picked? (Hint: none in the lottery)

Noel was picked at 6 and Okafor at 3, so I don’t get the comparison on drafting ability, if that’s what you were getting at. Ben was consensus number one and Embiid was the obvious pick at 3 when Wiggins and Parker were already taken. Ainge made ballsy picks in both drafts.

Still doesn’t explain all the other great moves or signings or hires.

King should absolutely be blamed for the Nets demise, no question. But to purely put the success of the Celtics on him is severely shortsighted.

But I get it. If I was a Lakers fan I too would be cursing out Billy King nightly.

 

[lamekilla]

AIlen Iverson had more influence on the modern day PG than Nash without actually playing PG.

Depends on what type of PG you like. A Russell Westbrook or a Steph Curry?

 

[freakydestroyer]

Depends on what type of PG you like. A Russell Westbrook or a Steph Curry?

We can see the influence on both, let's not kid ourselves.

 

[MVP]

Where were those guys picked? (Hint: none in the lottery)

Noel was picked at 6 and Okafor at 3, so I don’t get the comparison on drafting ability, if that’s what you were getting at. Ben was consensus number one and Embiid was the obvious pick at 3 when Wiggins and Parker were already taken. Ainge made ballsy picks in both drafts.

Still doesn’t explain all the other great moves or signings or hires.

King should absolutely be blamed for the Nets demise, no question. But to purely put the success of the Celtics on him is severely shortsighted.

But I get it. If I was a Lakers fan I too would be cursing out Billy King nightly.

You don't get it but I have work early, schooling you will have to wait until tomorrow.

 

[aNYone]

Shaq could’ve been the goat if he had a work ethic

Agreed

Shaq = Randy Moss